Children of the Phoenix

Similar to Buff Overun, my friends and I figured it'd be pretty cool to run a squad of Fire Radiation controllers.

Theres a certain way we'd set it up, you know, meet up and play on certain days of the week and stuff like that.

Minimum of five people to join us, if you are interested say something please. Thanks.

Is this for new toons or pre-existing ones?

If its pre-existing Maloth is always happy to meet up with fellow tox-bots.

Cool guide. Must have a long read later.

But no, it'll be new.

Ah cool. Have fun and hit The Hollows hard! [img]/uk/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Fire/Rad is the way forward. [img]/uk/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Wow. Must be very hard to mistype Kinetics as Radiation, eh? Considered help? >_>;;

There is no other!

Kinetics is great for solo or for supporting a mixed team but for this type of team would not work as well.

This is taken from the ChuckNorris guide to a 6 man corruptor team but the same would pretty much apply to a controller team.

"Some think that a team of all /Kinetics can equal the /Rad team, or even surprass it. They are wrong. Here is why:


Kinetics can't even come close to the sheer debuff capability of the Radiation Emission set.

As for things dieing too fast at higher levels... Well, probably no other Villain team type is going to GET you to those higher levels than a /rad team.
Plus, as a /rad team you'll be fighting purples on relentless at higher levels - And not many 4-6 man teams can keep it together against such odds.


All Kinetics really has going for it in this kind of strategy is Siphon power, and all it does is debuff the enemy's attack damage by 15% and increase yours by 15%.

Kinetics also uses a point blank AOE, rather than ranged AOE, meaning you have to make yourself vulnerable to alpha strikes before it goes into effect.

A radiation Emission team, in contrast, can (at range) debuff an entire group's accuracy, defense, resistance, and damage output down to nothing - And the effect is a constant toggle as opposed to a one shot AOE.


Going down the list power by power:
-Kinetics has a much better heal, but if you're playing your /rad group right you won't need much healing anyway.
-Repel is counterproductive.
-Siphon Speed is not needed.
-Increase density has no use in a /rad team, where you nothing will be able to hit you and you'll kill them the mobs too fast for them to do anything.
-Speed boost is totally unneeded.
-Inertial Reduction is totally unneeded.
-Transference is totally unneeded to this style of play.
-Fulcrum Shift. Again, all it does it debuff damage and buff your damage. And do you really want to wait until level 38 to get one of the only three secondary powers that is useful to the /rad team style of play? I don't think so.


Let's compare it power to power with Radiation Emission:
-Radiant Aura. A good heal that gets the job done.
-Radiantion Infection - Targeted AOE, radius 20ft, casting range of 70ft. Debuffs the enemy's Accuracy and Defense by 22.5% unslotted. It's a toggle power, so it never misses and stays up infecting all nearby enemies until the target dies.
-Accelerate Metabolism. A PBAOE with 25ft radius that allows you to boost the Damage, Attack speed, Endurance recovery, and Run/Fly speed of your entire team for 2 minutes. It also grants them resistance to all status effects. This power is a great boon to the /rad team combat style.
-Enervating Field. Targeted AOE, 15ft Radius, 70ft range. It decreases the enemy's Damage and Resistance by 22.5% unslotted. It's a toggle power, so it never misses and stays up infecting all nearby enemies until the target dies.
-Mutation. Ressurect fallen teammates. Technically it fits well with the /rad style of play, but ultimately it's not needed if you've got awakens around.
-Lingering Radiation. PBAOE with 25 radius. Decreases the attack speed and movement speed of all effected enemies for 30 seconds. Not essential if you've got the other two debuff toggles running, but it still fits the /rad team theme well and is useful against tougher foes like Heros or Giant Monsters.
-Choking Cloud. A toggle PBAOE with 15ft range that has a 50% chance to impart 5 second holds in pulses every 5 seconds. Not required when you've got so many /rad teammates using their toggles, but it still fits the /rad team style well if you ever come across the need to hold a bunch of targets in place after debuffing them.
-Fallout. Useless. The only useless power in the /rad set.
-EM Pulse. Again it fits the mass AOE theme of /rad well, but ultimately isn't required when you consider how powerful your massed toggles already are.


Conclusion: The vast majority of the Kinetics line is useless to the /rad style of team warfare.
Just about every /rad power IS useful to this style of warfare, even if a few of those powers aren't actually required because the ones you already have are SO powerful that anything more would be overkill."

If the long text put you off long story short /Rad wins for a large team of all /same secondary. [img]/uk/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

So any Joiners for this team up?

First, I would agree that I'd rather have a full /rad team than a full /kin team but I would much prefer a mix of the 2.

Have to say I strongly disagree with some of points in that Chuck Norris guide.

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As for things dieing too fast at higher levels... Well, probably no other Villain team type is going to GET you to those higher levels than a /rad team.

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I'm guessing it should say "as fast as a /rad team seeing I'm pretty sure other sets than rad have reached 50...this could be a myth though? [img]/uk/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

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Plus, as a /rad team you'll be fighting purples on relentless at higher levels - And not many 4-6 man teams can keep it together against such odds.

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I'm pretty sure I've heard stories about other ATs/sets than rad has done this...this, again, could be a myth apparantly.


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All Kinetics really has going for it in this kind of strategy is Siphon power, and all it does is debuff the enemy's attack damage by 15% and increase yours by 15%.

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Erm....what!?!? Only thing!?!? And it's 20% not 15%.

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Kinetics also uses a point blank AOE, rather than ranged AOE, meaning you have to make yourself vulnerable to alpha strikes before it goes into effect.

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Rad has to worry about alphas aswell. A controller team shouldn't worry too much about alphas though.

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A radiation Emission team, in contrast, can (at range) debuff an entire group's accuracy, defense, resistance, and damage output down to nothing - And the effect is a constant toggle as opposed to a one shot AOE.

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Yeah...because the Kin buffs/debuffs only lasts for a second!?!? [img]/uk/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

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-Siphon Speed is not needed.

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Erm...what!?!? Agree that stacked AMs are awesome but who wouldn't want extra recharge??

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-Increase density has no use in a /rad team, where you nothing will be able to hit you and you'll kill them the mobs too fast for them to do anything.

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ID is always nice to have as mez release or before going in to take an alpha...which he seems to believe won't happen for some reason.

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-Speed boost is totally unneeded.

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Again...what!?!?. I want more recharge dammit!! and all the end i can (try) to chew trough.

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-Inertial Reduction is totally unneeded.

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Yeah....why would anyone wish to have unsurpressed vertical movement?? [img]/uk/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

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-Transference is totally unneeded to this style of play.

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Sure....good thing there isn't any mobs in the game that will sap your end...oh wait.

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-Fulcrum Shift. Again, all it does it debuff damage and buff your damage. And do you really want to wait until level 38 to get one of the only three secondary powers that is useful to the /rad team style of play? I don't think so.

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Yes...who would anyone want one of the absolute best powers in the game [img]/uk/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]


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-EM Pulse. Again it fits the mass AOE theme of /rad well, but ultimately isn't required when you consider how powerful your massed toggles already are.

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Yeah...a fantastic AoE hold...why would anyone want that!?!?

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-Lingering Radiation. PBAOE with 25 radius. Decreases the attack speed and movement speed of all effected enemies for 30 seconds. Not essential if you've got the other two debuff toggles running, but it still fits the /rad team theme well and is useful against tougher foes like Heros or Giant Monsters

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Should say that it has a big -regen. This is one of the absolute best powers in the set. This power makes a 5 minute AV fight into a 20 second fight but I guess that wasn't worth to mention. Oh...and it's AoE not PBAoE.


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Conclusion: The vast majority of the Kinetics line is useless to the /rad style of team warfare.
Just about every /rad power IS useful to this style of warfare, even if a few of those powers aren't actually required because the ones you already have are SO powerful that anything more would be overkill.

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Well....just can't take this seriously... [img]/uk/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

I think you pretty much covered the bases there, Archy. One addition though: IR isn't just vertical movement, it removes inertia and drag from all movement. This means greater air control and response than you find in superjump, and if someone on your team happens to be using flight it allows them to lose the inertia too. Combine that with the benefits of siphon speed and speed boost and you have increased endurance regeneration and vastly heightened mobility; you're only killing stuff as fast as you can move from one group of enemies to another. [img]/uk/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

I've played in a team of /Rad corruptors with a /Kin corruptor joining and yes they help quite some bit and cover the /Rads main weakness mezzing.

A few things tho:

With just 4 stacks of AM End is not ever a problem if this went up to 6-8 then speed boast would not be needed even for its recharge.

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-Inertial Reduction is totally unneeded.

"Yeah....why would anyone wish to have unsurpressed vertical movement??"

Multiple AM plus hurdle and swift gives plenty of unsurpressed movement.

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-Transference is totally unneeded to this style of play.

"Sure....good thing there isn't any mobs in the game that will sap your end...oh wait."

While I disagree with it being totally unneeded as it can be used to help recover team mates endurance after a nuke
its not needed to stop end sapping mobs as AM greatly protects against this.

But I'm not looking to turn this topic into a /Rad vs /Kin
both are great it just depends on what you do and how you do.

The point of this thread is to get people to team up as Fire/Rad controllers if you want to be Fire/Kin or even Fire/Emp then sign up anyway.

Well, I don't want to make another fire/kin, already having one at 50, and did you not understand the point about unsurpressed VERTICAL movement? This can make tough zones for on foot cake, and anyway, i'd get bored if I had to stop every couple minutes to AM everyone... and Speed Boost is perma out of the box, as in you don't have to wait for a reacharge, and it has same base duration, and you can easily apply it before it wears off... and AM doesn't stop you getting mezzed, just reduces the time you are mezzed. ID stops mezzes, and knockback, and gives 20% res to smash/energy

But sure, I'll make a /Rad Anyway [img]/uk/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
Don't want to make another fire though, could you use an ice for a little variaty?

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But I'm not looking to turn this topic into a /Rad vs /Kin
both are great it just depends on what you do and how you do.


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This was never my intention since both are great sets and as I said I'd rather have a full /rad than a full /kin team..

I do however have issues with a bogus "guide" like that which missleads people and written by a guy who obviously haven't got a clue what the kin set is about (and rad it seems aswell).

EDIT: I already have a fire troller so don't think I want to play another one for a while though. Sounds really fun though [img]/uk/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[img]/uk/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] I'll be making a fire/rad too.

[img]/uk/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] The writer talks about how /kin is not *needed* on an all /rad team.. he's almost right.

[img]/uk/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] On a /rad squad, the only weakness is mez protection.. thus, that is all that is *needed*.

[img]/uk/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] Clear Mind, Dis. Bubble, Inc. Density etc. are good for protection as opposed to AM's reduction.

[img]/uk/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] I guess this means we'd like a Fire/Rad squad with the odd extras.

[img]/uk/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] If this becomes a supergroup, I suggest Fire/Rad members take full activity and others be reserves

Ice & Fire don't mesh that well and really you're just a bunch of controllers if you mix the primaries.

Rad, TA, Kinetics & Storm are the ones which spring to mind as the best secondaries for Fire controllers.

Carnifax: *snip* you're just a bunch of controllers if you mix the primaries

[img]/uk/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] Are you suggesting that we shouldn't mix? Or that we should mix, but just secondaries?

[img]/uk/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] The superteam is Fire/Rad (we all agree) but the weakness is mezz protection. Right?

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Carnifax: *snip* you're just a bunch of controllers if you mix the primaries

[img]/uk/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] Are you suggesting that we shouldn't mix? Or that we should mix, but just secondaries?

[img]/uk/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] The superteam is Fire/Rad (we all agree) but the weakness is mezz protection. Right?

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Well thats up to you guys, but the original idea was pure Fire / Rad. I'd try to keep it to that as much as possible.

All-Troller teams are silly-good though.

And does AM provide Mez, erm, something? Lowers the duration of mez effects on you, whichever that is.

Yah, its resistance reduces the magnitude and duration of the mezz I believe.. its evident in-game.

I think what could work well is 7 Fire/Rads, with an Illusion/Empath to look after the team. That would provide invis for the team, An alpha taker, good Heals, CM, and fort even for a couple of people, not to mention RA.

[img]/uk/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] Precisely, DeathDude dude (Liking the signature btw)

[img]/uk/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] There were already plans for that extra Ill/Emp or Ill/Kin.

[img]/uk/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] This has been pre-planned, just wanted to see the extent of public interest and opinions too.

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[img]/uk/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] Precisely, DeathDude dude (Liking the signature btw)

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QFT, gunna make a MaX style sig now [img]/uk/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Hehe. Okay, well spellcheck it. I'm Pious not Piours. [img]/uk/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

I'll be doing a similar thing too soon, but stumbling through old posts looking for compliments.. [img]/uk/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

Anyway, I'll be happy to be Illu/Emp for ya team [img]/uk/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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With just 4 stacks of AM End is not ever a problem if this went up to 6-8 then speed boast would not be needed even for its recharge.

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I've quite easily run through Reovery Aura. I tried 4 AM's (Defender, so better than the Cont version) and I ran through that just fine, too. Speedboost though, when slotted, I can usually hapilly run with just two and have NO end issues.

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Multiple AM plus hurdle and swift gives plenty of unsurpressed movement.

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Multiple AM is nice, but SB+IR give much better movement overall without the need to slot Hurdle/Swift any as it's good off the bat. Also, unsurpressed travel along mainly horizontal lines isn't good in PvP.

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While I disagree with it being totally unneeded as it can be used to help recover team mates endurance after a nuke
its not needed to stop end sapping mobs as AM greatly protects against this.


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since when has AM protected against a Malta Sapper or Recovered that much end when you really need it?

Yeah yeah yeah, whatever. DeathDude, Cerberus, Pious and Dark Hadou so far. Any more joiners?