Ice/SS

MaXimillion_Zero · 07-15-2006 05:24 AM

[ QUOTE ]

Where for the love of all that is holy is Hoarfrost? Get that badboy in early, and 6 slot it. (3recharge, 3 heal)

Get that in asap, as that really needs to be in there.

[/ QUOTE ]Very, very, VERY true, hoarfrost is a must.

MaXimillion_Zero · 07-15-2006 05:33 AM

For reference, my planned ice/axe build (slightly different from what I have, wanted to see if I liked icicles, wasn't worth it):

---------------------------------------------
Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder
---------------------------------------------
Name: Glacial Blade
Level: 50
Archetype: Tanker
Primary: Ice Armor
Secondary: Battle Axe
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Hoarfrost==> Rechg(1)Rechg(3)Rechg(3)Heal(9)Heal(17)Heal(17)
01) --> Gash==> Acc(1)Dmg(9)Dmg(11)Dmg(15)
02) --> Frozen Armor==> EndRdx(2)DefBuf(5)DefBuf(5)DefBuf(7)
04) --> Chilling Embrace==> EndRdx(4)
06) --> Beheader==> Acc(6)Dmg(7)Dmg(11)Dmg(15)
08) --> Wet Ice==> EndRdx(8)
10) --> Hurdle==> Jump(10)
12) --> Hasten==> Rechg(12)Rechg(13)Rechg(13)
14) --> Super Speed==> Run(14)
16) --> Health==> Heal(16)
18) --> Glacial Armor==> EndRdx(18)DefBuf(19)DefBuf(19)DefBuf(25)
20) --> Stamina==> EndMod(20)EndMod(21)EndMod(21)
22) --> Swoop==> Acc(22)Dmg(23)Dmg(23)Dmg(25)Rechg(46)
24) --> Aid Other==> Heal(24)
26) --> Energy Absorbtion==> Rechg(26)Rechg(27)Rechg(27)DefBuf(34)DefBuf(34)DefBuf(37)
28) --> Whirling Axe==> Acc(28)Dmg(29)Dmg(29)Dmg(31)EndRdx(34)Rechg(40)
30) --> Aid Self==> Heal(30)Heal(31)Heal(31)IntRdx(33)Rechg(33)EndRdx(33)
32) --> Hibernate==> Rechg(32)Rechg(43)Rechg(46)Heal(46)
35) --> Cleave==> Acc(35)Dmg(36)Dmg(36)Dmg(36)EndRdx(37)Rechg(37)
38) --> Pendulum==> Acc(38)Dmg(39)Dmg(39)Dmg(39)EndRdx(40)Rechg(40)
41) --> Char==> Acc(41)Hold(42)Hold(42)Hold(42)Rechg(43)Rechg(43)
44) --> Fire Blast==> Acc(44)Dmg(45)Dmg(45)Dmg(45)
47) --> Fire Ball==> Acc(47)Dmg(48)Dmg(48)Dmg(48)Rechg(50)Rechg(50)
49) --> Taunt==> Rechg(49)Rechg(50)
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Power Slide==> Run(1)
01) --> Power Quick==> Empty(1)
01) --> Sprint==> Empty(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Acc(1)
01) --> Gauntlet==> Empty(1)
02) --> Rest==> IntRdx(2)
---------------------------------------------

And how I'd build an ice/SS:

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Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder
---------------------------------------------
Name:
Level: 50
Archetype: Tanker
Primary: Ice Armor
Secondary: Super Strength
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Hoarfrost==> Rechg(1)Rechg(3)Rechg(3)Heal(9)Heal(17)Heal(17)
01) --> Jab==> Acc(1)Dmg(9)Dmg(11)Dmg(15)
02) --> Frozen Armor==> EndRdx(2)DefBuf(5)DefBuf(5)DefBuf(7)
04) --> Chilling Embrace==> EndRdx(4)
06) --> Haymaker==> Acc(6)Dmg(7)Dmg(11)Dmg(15)
08) --> Wet Ice==> EndRdx(8)
10) --> Hurdle==> Jump(10)
12) --> Hasten==> Rechg(12)Rechg(13)Rechg(13)
14) --> Super Speed==> Run(14)
16) --> Health==> Heal(16)
18) --> Glacial Armor==> EndRdx(18)DefBuf(19)DefBuf(19)DefBuf(25)
20) --> Stamina==> EndMod(20)EndMod(21)EndMod(21)
22) --> Knockout Blow==> Acc(22)Dmg(23)Dmg(23)Dmg(25)Rechg(46)EndRdx(50)
24) --> Aid Other==> Heal(24)
26) --> Energy Absorbtion==> Rechg(26)Rechg(27)Rechg(27)DefBuf(34)DefBuf(34)DefBuf(37)
28) --> Rage==> Rechg(28)Rechg(29)Rechg(29)TH_Buf(31)TH_Buf(34)TH_Buf(36)
30) --> Aid Self==> Heal(30)Heal(31)Heal(31)IntRdx(33)Rechg(33)EndRdx(33)
32) --> Hibernate==> Rechg(32)Rechg(43)Rechg(46)Heal(46)
35) --> Hand Clap==> Acc(35)DisDur(36)DisDur(36)DisDur(37)Rechg(37)Rechg(40)
38) --> Foot Stomp==> Acc(38)Dmg(39)Dmg(39)Dmg(39)Rechg(40)EndRdx(40)
41) --> Char==> Acc(41)Hold(42)Hold(42)Hold(42)Rechg(43)Rechg(43)
44) --> Fire Blast==> Acc(44)Dmg(45)Dmg(45)Dmg(45)
47) --> Fire Ball==> Acc(47)Dmg(48)Dmg(48)Dmg(48)Rechg(50)Rechg(50)
49) --> Taunt==> Rechg(49)
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Power Slide==> Run(1)
01) --> Power Quick==> Empty(1)
01) --> Sprint==> Empty(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Acc(1)
01) --> Gauntlet==> Empty(1)
02) --> Rest==> IntRdx(2)
---------------------------------------------

Clexeus · 07-15-2006 06:03 AM

If I were to make an Ice/SS:

---------------------------------------------
Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder
---------------------------------------------
Name:
Level: 50
Archetype: Tanker
Primary: Ice Armor
Secondary: Super Strength
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Frozen Armor==> Empty(1)
01) --> Jab==> Empty(1)
02) --> Chilling Embrace==> Empty(2)
04) --> Haymaker==> Empty(4)
06) --> Wet Ice==> Empty(6)
08) --> Hoarfrost==> Empty(8)
10) --> Taunt==> Empty(10)
12) --> Combat Jumping==> Empty(12)
14) --> Super Jump==> Empty(14)
16) --> Swift==> Empty(16)
18) --> Glacial Armor==> Empty(18)
20) --> Knockout Blow==> Empty(20)
22) --> Health==> Empty(22)
24) --> Stamina==> Empty(24)
26) --> Energy Absorbtion==> Empty(26)
28) --> Rage==> Empty(28)
30) --> Stimulant==> Empty(30)
32) --> Hibernate==> Empty(32)
35) --> Aid Self==> Empty(35)
38) --> Foot Stomp==> Empty(38)
41) --> Hasten==> Empty(41)
44) --> Block of Ice==> Empty(44)
47) --> Ice Blast==> Empty(47)
49) --> Ice Storm==> Empty(49)
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Sprint==> Empty(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Empty(1)
01) --> Gauntlet==> Empty(1)
02) --> Rest==> Empty(2)
---------------------------------------------

Unthing · 07-15-2006 09:29 AM

[ QUOTE ]
For reference, my planned ice/axe build (slightly different from what I have, wanted to see if I liked icicles, wasn't worth it):

[/ QUOTE ]
But for Ice/SS 6 slotted it is.

Rage + Icicles = 2nd most damaging power I have.

My build + few level extra

01) --> Frozen Armor==> DefBuf(1) DefBuf(3) DefBuf(3) EndRdx(9) EndRdx(17)
01) --> Jab==> Dmg(1) EndRdx(15) Acc(17) Dmg(40)
02) --> Chilling Embrace==> EndRdx(2) Taunt(7)
04) --> Haymaker==> EndRdx(4) Dmg(5) Dmg(5) Acc(9) EndRdx(36) Rechg(36)
06) --> Wet Ice==> EndRdx(6) EndRdx(7)
08) --> Hoarfrost==> Rechg(8) Rechg(11) Rechg(11) Heal(13) Heal(13) Heal(15)
10) --> Combat Jumping==> DefBuf(10)
12) --> Taunt==> Taunt(12)
14) --> Super Jump==> Jump(14)
16) --> Hurdle==> Jump(16)
18) --> Health==> Heal(18) Heal(19) Heal(19)
20) --> Stamina==> EndMod(20) EndMod(21) EndMod(21)
22) --> Icicles==> EndRdx(22) Dmg(23) EndRdx(23) Dmg(33) EndRdx(34) Dmg(34)
24) --> Glacial Armor==> DefBuf(24) DefBuf(25) DefBuf(25)
26) --> Energy Absorbtion==> Rechg(26) DefBuf(27) DefBuf(27) DefBuf(31) Rechg(31) Rechg(31)
28) --> Hasten==> Rechg(28) Rechg(29) Rechg(29)
30) --> Rage==> Rechg(30) Rechg(36)
32) --> Knockout Blow==> Acc(32) Dmg(33) Dmg(33) EndRdx(34) Rechg(37) EndRdx(37)
35) --> Hibernate==> Rechg(35) Rechg(37)
38) --> Foot Stomp==> Dmg(38) Dmg(39) Rechg(39) EndRdx(39) EndRdx(40) Rechg(40)
41) --> Block of Ice==> Hold(41) Hold(42) Hold(42) Acc(42) Rechg(43)
44) --> Ice Blast==> Dmg(44) Dmg(45) Dmg(45) EndRdx(45) EndRdx(46) Rechg(46)

The main mistake I made was 2x end reds in the early toggles. With SOs I think 1 is all that is required. Also if I redid it I would take hoarfrost before Wet Ice.

I mainly played with a Nova form PB, so I wasn't too bothered about damage.

I run Rage perma.

@Unthing ... Mostly on Union.

New Dawn · 07-15-2006 02:43 PM

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What is this taunt rubbish? With plain CE I'm keeping aggro fine in 8-man teams with multiple blasters... Taunt is a waste of slot

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, ive been teaming with him and his CE goodness , i would say drop taunt and take another power in there such as aid self or hasten.

[/ QUOTE ]

Will try it out when I can earn a respec :P ... How to slot CE? 3 Slow, 1 End Red?

[/ QUOTE ]Slow will mean enemies will move towards you slower, bad when you're trying to get them bunched together. I went for 1 EndRdx.

EDIT: 6666 posts....is that bad?

[/ QUOTE ]

having read some of them, yes it is.

He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.

Starfox_EU · 07-16-2006 05:55 AM

Where for the love of all that is holy is Hoarfrost? Get that badboy in early, and 6 slot it. (3recharge, 3 heal)

Get that in asap, as that really needs to be in there.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not so convinced I want Hoarfrost. If I want self healing, Heal Self with 3 SO interrupt reduction is better. But solo/small team I don't need healing, and on a big team someone should be able to heal me.

MaXimillion_Zero · 07-16-2006 06:52 AM

[ QUOTE ]

Not so convinced I want Hoarfrost. If I want self healing, Heal Self with 3 SO interrupt reduction is better. But solo/small team I don't need healing, and on a big team someone should be able to heal me.

[/ QUOTE ]Trust me, you WILL want hoarfrost. Not only is it non-interruptible and fast, it also heals way more than aid self, and because of the max HP increaqse, it will increase aid self's effectiviness.

Also, 3 IntRdx isn't really needed in Aid Self, I'd drop at least one, maybe two, in favor of recharge/endurace.

Jiaozy · 07-16-2006 07:41 AM

[ QUOTE ]
For reference, my planned ice/axe build (slightly different from what I have, wanted to see if I liked icicles, wasn't worth it):

And how I'd build an ice/SS:

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't see Taunt in any of the build you proposed so I hope you get a backup, taunting, proper tanker when trying AVs because they'll just ignore you if they're not taunted due to the last changes (unless you 3 slot all your attacks for taunt...) and they're likely to cause some big messes.

[ QUOTE ]
Trust me, you WILL want hoarfrost. Not only is it non-interruptible and fast, it also heals way more than aid self, and because of the max HP increaqse, it will increase aid self's effectiviness.

[/ QUOTE ]
It _should_ increase the effectivness of Aid Self but it doesn't.
Any power that heals a % of your HPs (like respites and Aid Self) isn't affected by any HP buff, that's why a Respite used on a dwarf-form kheldian heals like 10% of your hp and the amount Aid Self heals is always the same, Hoarfrost or not....

Toxic_Torch · 07-16-2006 09:56 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Trust me, you WILL want hoarfrost. Not only is it non-interruptible and fast, it also heals way more than aid self, and because of the max HP increaqse, it will increase aid self's effectiviness.

[/ QUOTE ]
It _should_ increase the effectivness of Aid Self but it doesn't.
Any power that heals a % of your HPs (like respites and Aid Self) isn't affected by any HP buff, that's why a Respite used on a dwarf-form kheldian heals like 10% of your hp and the amount Aid Self heals is always the same, Hoarfrost or not....

[/ QUOTE ]
All Healing powers heal a static amount of Health based upon the level and AT of the user. Most healing powers scale at the same speed as the Health of the user making it look like they're calculated as a percentage.

GunNut_EU · 07-16-2006 04:20 PM

Does Wet Ice only need 1 end red?

Unthing · 07-16-2006 04:36 PM

Most of the Ice toggles cost the same.

Chilling Embrace, Frozen Armour, Glacial Armour and Wet Ice all are about 0.24 end per second. When you get SOs 1 end red is enough. Beforehand you may need more. The first end red cuts it to 0.18, the second cuts it to 0.14. For 4 extra slots ( the 2nd end red in all armours ) you cut your end drain by 0.16 end per second. That really isn't a very good investment of slots, better off putting one end red in one attack which will save you something in the region of 0.2-0.3 end per second.

@Unthing ... Mostly on Union.

Jiaozy · 07-17-2006 10:14 AM

[ QUOTE ]
All Healing powers heal a static amount of Health based upon the level and AT of the user. Most healing powers scale at the same speed as the Health of the user making it look like they're calculated as a percentage.

[/ QUOTE ]
Ah!
That explains most of it, thanks
But still, the respites should heals a % of your health, but they don't if you have any kind of HP buff..

Toxic_Torch · 07-17-2006 10:45 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
All Healing powers heal a static amount of Health based upon the level and AT of the user. Most healing powers scale at the same speed as the Health of the user making it look like they're calculated as a percentage.

[/ QUOTE ]
Ah!
That explains most of it, thanks
But still, the respites should heals a % of your health, but they don't if you have any kind of HP buff..

[/ QUOTE ]
Inspirations work as one-shot temporary powers.

MaXimillion_Zero · 07-17-2006 01:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
For reference, my planned ice/axe build (slightly different from what I have, wanted to see if I liked icicles, wasn't worth it):

And how I'd build an ice/SS:

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't see Taunt in any of the build you proposed so I hope you get a backup, taunting, proper tanker when trying AVs because they'll just ignore you if they're not taunted due to the last changes (unless you 3 slot all your attacks for taunt...) and they're likely to cause some big messes.

[/ QUOTE ]The few I've done so far have been fine. The only change was done changed the way AV's react to damage, gauntlet still applies as normal, as does CE.

New Dawn · 07-18-2006 12:57 PM

i wouldnt solely trust a tank that could have moments of possibly only comfortably taunt controlling about 10 foes in a herd of 17 with my debuffer or blaster.

He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.

Unthing · 07-18-2006 01:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I don't see Taunt in any of the build you proposed so I hope you get a backup, taunting, proper tanker when trying AVs because they'll just ignore you if they're not taunted due to the last changes (unless you 3 slot all your attacks for taunt...) and they're likely to cause some big messes.

[/ QUOTE ]The few I've done so far have been fine. The only change was done changed the way AV's react to damage, gauntlet still applies as normal, as does CE.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not about Ice, it is about SS. Against AVs you are likely to be using Rage in order to gain extra damage. Especially in small teams.
This means that every 2 minutes you lose 10 seconds of taunt time. CE has a tick time and taunt duration of 2-3 seconds, I don't know the duration of gauntlet for the various attack. This means that there is large enough window for a team wipe.
Taunt has a good duration so if you taunt before Rage drops you have a good chance of not killing your team.

@Unthing ... Mostly on Union.

MaXimillion_Zero · 07-18-2006 05:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I don't see Taunt in any of the build you proposed so I hope you get a backup, taunting, proper tanker when trying AVs because they'll just ignore you if they're not taunted due to the last changes (unless you 3 slot all your attacks for taunt...) and they're likely to cause some big messes.

[/ QUOTE ]The few I've done so far have been fine. The only change was done changed the way AV's react to damage, gauntlet still applies as normal, as does CE.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not about Ice, it is about SS. Against AVs you are likely to be using Rage in order to gain extra damage. Especially in small teams.
This means that every 2 minutes you lose 10 seconds of taunt time. CE has a tick time and taunt duration of 2-3 seconds, I don't know the duration of gauntlet for the various attack. This means that there is large enough window for a team wipe.
Taunt has a good duration so if you taunt before Rage drops you have a good chance of not killing your team.

[/ QUOTE ]Ah, yes, the post that I quoted said nothing about rage, forgot to factor it in.

GunNut_EU · 07-18-2006 05:17 PM

Hmm after teaming with a stone/stone tank at level 20 and me at 22 with Taunt SO's in Taunt & CE, she still manged to grab the aggro from me with just taunt... am I missing somethink?

MaXimillion_Zero · 07-18-2006 07:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hmm after teaming with a stone/stone tank at level 20 and me at 22 with Taunt SO's in Taunt & CE, she still manged to grab the aggro from me with just taunt... am I missing somethink?

[/ QUOTE ]Taunt effects don't stack, the lastest effect applied to a target is the one that will take effect. Also, as a related note, placate and taunt override each other.

New Dawn · 07-18-2006 07:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I don't see Taunt in any of the build you proposed so I hope you get a backup, taunting, proper tanker when trying AVs because they'll just ignore you if they're not taunted due to the last changes (unless you 3 slot all your attacks for taunt...) and they're likely to cause some big messes.

[/ QUOTE ]The few I've done so far have been fine. The only change was done changed the way AV's react to damage, gauntlet still applies as normal, as does CE.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not about Ice, it is about SS. Against AVs you are likely to be using Rage in order to gain extra damage. Especially in small teams.
This means that every 2 minutes you lose 10 seconds of taunt time. CE has a tick time and taunt duration of 2-3 seconds, I don't know the duration of gauntlet for the various attack. This means that there is large enough window for a team wipe.
Taunt has a good duration so if you taunt before Rage drops you have a good chance of not killing your team.

[/ QUOTE ]

The higher the level of AV the more taunt duration is required to last the 10 second duration. I personally only risk rage if i am using unstoppable (kill or be killed) or from seeing how quickly the AVs health drops, i can gather if the AV will drop before my rage drops. 10 seconds is a long time in which an AV can just turn on the rest of the team.

Secondary taunt has a longer taunt duration than any aura taunt and so it wins, scrappers can use their taunt to relieve tanks of a lieutenant in a mob, usually find some inexperienced scrapper uses it on an AV who then decides to use a cone attack with the rest of the team in the line of fire.

As for placates I've had capt mako placate me so i couldnt taunt him, so i then taunted ghost widow whose next to him and because its an aoe i taunt mako still anyway.

He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.

Jiaozy · 07-19-2006 11:39 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hmm after teaming with a stone/stone tank at level 20 and me at 22 with Taunt SO's in Taunt & CE, she still manged to grab the aggro from me with just taunt... am I missing somethink?

[/ QUOTE ]Taunt effects don't stack, the lastest effect applied to a target is the one that will take effect. Also, as a related note, placate and taunt override each other.

[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, Taunt duration DOES stack, Bridger said somewhere that for A to taunt something that's already been taunted by B, A has to apply a Taunt Duration of DOUBLE the duration of B.
So, since Taunt lasts like 5x times the taunt duration of CE and Gauntlet you'll easily be out-taunted by anyone with Taunt if you run only CE and rely on Gauntlet.

And it's not only with Rage that you'll risk losing the aggro of an AV but if someone does more damage than you (not hard) and you don't have enough taunt duration (wich is likely since on AVs taunt lasts a very short amount of time)they'll just turn on someone else.

GunNut_EU · 07-19-2006 01:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hmm after teaming with a stone/stone tank at level 20 and me at 22 with Taunt SO's in Taunt & CE, she still manged to grab the aggro from me with just taunt... am I missing somethink?

[/ QUOTE ]Taunt effects don't stack, the lastest effect applied to a target is the one that will take effect. Also, as a related note, placate and taunt override each other.

[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, Taunt duration DOES stack, Bridger said somewhere that for A to taunt something that's already been taunted by B, A has to apply a Taunt Duration of DOUBLE the duration of B.
So, since Taunt lasts like 5x times the taunt duration of CE and Gauntlet you'll easily be out-taunted by anyone with Taunt if you run only CE and rely on Gauntlet.

And it's not only with Rage that you'll risk losing the aggro of an AV but if someone does more damage than you (not hard) and you don't have enough taunt duration (wich is likely since on AVs taunt lasts a very short amount of time)they'll just turn on someone else.

[/ QUOTE ]

Was also using taunt and I've not got rage yet... which is why I wonder how can a stone tank with Taunt only keep the aggro? was no mud pots...

New Dawn · 07-19-2006 05:29 PM

I see what you are saying, you'd have to tell us how many taunt DO's or TO's and recharges were in the stonetankers taunt compared to your taunt with SO's. It would also be a question of timing.

If you ever team with another tank and he makes a bad AV pull delete ya taunt SO's asap so he bears the brunt of his mistake rather than you doing so and him going "im the toughest!" after you die:P.

He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.

GunNut_EU · 07-20-2006 09:30 AM

Hmmm is Aid Self needed at all? I'm 22 and I've been running into 26's all day with CE on and Taunting and coming out just fine...

Unthing · 07-20-2006 10:30 AM

I don't think Aid Self is needed. I am very happy with the defences of my Ice tank, with no Fighting Pool or Medicine pool.

However I'm sure it will help, but that kind of defeats the point of having a secondary.

@Unthing ... Mostly on Union.