3vP - Blueprint For Future Tournaments?

OK, 3vP is now drawing to a close and I have to say it's been one of the more successful PvP events I've seen, mainly due to the excellent format.

Now, I want to see what people think worked in it's favour and what didn't to try and use it for future competitions.

I'm going to list the good and bad points with possible solutions to try and help get an idea for a future one and would appreciate comments

Good

Team Sizes - Having just three people made it a lot easier to organise.

Random Teams - This was it's best point IMO.Players who were good at PvP but weren't part of well drilled teams could still compete. We all know that when big events happen and players who play together all the time enter teams, casual PvP'ers have no chance against their well rehearsed team work.

Mixed Teams - The fact heroes and villains were mixed was also a great move. Heroes V Villains is still uneven, especially pentads where villain AT's don't complement each other as well as Hero AT's where team roles are more defined.

Bad

No Shows Not Penalised - If people didn't show and their team won, they kept their life. Future ones should see people penalised either way.

Subs - In many matches, the subs really tipped the odds. The only way around this IMO is to have subs hand picked by the judges and as closely matched to the original player as possible. This does mean future events would need a pool of people not entering who were willing to be subs, maybe even subbing in more than one match to keep the builds as close as possible.

Unbalanced Teams - The first match where I had 3 squishies with no damage against 2 regens and a stalker almost made me not want to show. The way around that is a bit more tricky so here's how I think it could work.

Rank the builds. Now, I need suggestions on this but I see two or possibly three 'classes'. Non-squishies in the forms of Brutes, Tanks and Scrappers. Squishy damage in the form of Blasters, MM's and Corruptors. Squishy support in the form of Defenders, Controllers and Dominators. stalkers are missing as I'm really not sure if they should go in with Scrappers or Blasters as they are damage dealers but not sure if you class them as squishy or not.

So, how does it work? There's two ways really. Draw both team with one member from each 'class' or draw one team completely at random then just draw their opponents to correspond with their classes. Method one would see one of each class in a team, method two could see three non-squishies in a team but would guarantee they're also up against three other non squishies.

I prefer the sound of method one but the drawback is we would need even numbers of each class in the competition and as it wore on and one of a certain class saw a drop in numbers, it wouold make it impossible to do in later rounds(Thinking about it, not actually sure that can happen as equal numbers would go out each round I think?)

In theory it seems OK but looking at all the bad points of 3vP, none of them have been to do with the format but to do with the compeitiors so need to limit that being a factor as much as possible.

So, that's what i'm thinking and I am toying with organising something but would like feedback on what people think? Please, don't be afraid to poke holes in it but try not to be too negative and offer suggestions to cover those holes

From my perspective the biggest things to learn from 3vP are the following:

1) Organisation - It is too much work for 1 person per server. The sheer number of tells I've received throughout this tournament are uncounted, but it's a massive number. I'd recommend a team of two per server - 1 to handle the "crowd control" and 1 to handle the other stuff.

2) Subs - something we didn't really take into account - especially the penalty for not turning up.

3) Try to avoid coinciding with a) and Issue release, and b) the World Cup

Apart from that, it has been comparatively smooth, and I hope, a lot of fun - I'm especially looking forward to the final rounds, when I should get a chance to actually watch a match, and in particular the Union v Defiant Winners Showdown.

Good thinking Kin, especially like the idea to help lessen the poor points of the random system, although I love the random nature too - provides a lot of extra oomph imo.

OK, been having a think about this and can confirm that I will be going ahead with it once 3vP is done and dusted and there's been a suitable 'rest' period.

A couple more areas to tighten up on are that I will be limiting numbers as too many casual players seem to be losing interest in 3vP so want to keep it short. If people miss out on signup, it will be a shame but if it's short enough, can run them regularly.

Will also allow some flexibility on when fights are. Will probably say results must be in Tuesday night/Wednesday morning, results and fixtures up Thursday evening. Any results not submitted will count as a loss for ALL involved. this is going to be the worse as it penalises players for unreliable team mates they have no control over.

Any suggestions around this, let me know? (wondering if we can say tuesday night at 20.00 will be cutoff, those who've not fought turn up then and subs will be provided for team members who do show).

I'm going to wokr on draft rules this weekend and send them out to a few people to comments on(Cap, Xanthus and other PvP event organisers) and will then post the finalised rules on here.

Once again, please provide any feedback on this here so I can spot any holes ASAP.

The other bad news is that I will run it on Union only. That said, if someone did want to run one at the same time on Defiant, they're welcome.

It's better to set a day for the fights to happen than to allow them to happen over a week. Lots of people ended up losing lives through no fault of their own when we allowed people to organize their own matches, simply because some people don't turn up.

I thought it was great in the first few weeks. The atmosphere was fantastic & the fights were fun. Nicely orgainised and no-one took it too seriously. all good clean fun.

But the World Cup, DayStar and i7 had a huge impact. I've missed the last two matches despite being one of two or three people in arena last Thurs & the Thurs before. It was just bad timing in both cases really.

I'd say don't have it when something big is on & have it in the Autumn or the winter so hols & daystar don't have an impact. And avoid any time around a new Issue release as its almost guarenteed to bork a lot of people for a month or so afterwards.

Have a "Fight Night" set and stick to, post the matches well in advance (a couple of days).

For Subs if someone doesn't show they should lose a life automatically. If someone arranges with the team that they won't be there and is able to provide their own agreed sub the subs result is what the missing person gets.

A Round Robin format might be fun too. Not sure if the logistics would work but a few section mini-leagues where you fight with and against everyone in your minigroup with 3 pts per win might be an interesting alternative format as people don't get eliminated in dribs and drabs.

But my critisims aside I want to repeat I've loved the matches I've made it too and am sorry I missed the one last night. Fair play to you guys for doing it.

I'm down to one life now. No more mistimings. Now its serious

One idea I sorta had about 3vP was to do with subs and peeps now showing up. Not sure if this would work but here we go...

Rather than have teams assigned each week players are assigned a letter A/B/C - each week people get reshuffled into these three groupings.

On fight night players turn up and stand in their grouping (all the A's, all the B's and all the C's).

The 3vp admins (i think we would maybe need 2 or 3) would then simply pick players from A B and C to form a team.

This carries on until there are not enuff people left to form a team and I assume anyone left over gets a 'By' for that week...

Would negate the need for subs as no teams are ever pre-arranged. And if you don't show you lose a life...

Might cause problems with all scrapper teams or something. I dunno, could it work, or is it too complicated?

OK, this is still in draft form before I actually finalise it but I've taken Xanth's fixed night into account by putting in a compromise between the two. People can arrange matches BEFORE fight night but any players who's team have not fought have to turn up on the night to avoid being penalised.

The only other issue is the signup size. I either have 8 per class which gives us 24 people or 16 which takes us to 48. One seems a little too large, the other way too small.

I've also cut the number of lives from 3 to 2.

Here's the initial draft and any comments on the classes would be welcomed(kheldians, stalkers and corruptors were the pains)

[ QUOTE ]
OK, I've now come up with what I hope is going to prove to be a workable tournament format in the fashion of 3vP and clean up two of the areas that caused problems, No shows and all squishy teams coming up against all melee ones

Team Size

Each match will consist of two teams of 3, randomly drawn each round, as in 3vP.

How Are You Eliminated

Same as 3vP again, you have lives and a no show or a team loss costs you a life. However, you'll only have two lives in this. This is mainly to speed it up a bit and if we find it's unworkable, i'll know to put it back to three for the next one.

Matches

10 minute matches capped at lvl 40 and minimum lvl for entry is 38. I understand some people do not want to fight unless it's at lvl 50 but there are certain epics that really unbalance PvP IMO so I've decided to stick with the 40 cap, even though many villains are now level 50.

Where Are Matches Fought
This will be Union only. I'm happy for someone else to run a Defiant version alongside it if they wish but I can see me running one being enough of a headache as it is and do not want to use the test server as it put's some of the more casual players off.

When Are Matches Fought

I will publish the fixtures every Wednesday evening. Each team can arrange to do their match whenever is convenient for all of them. However, I will be at the arena every Monday night at 20.00 while the competition is on and this is when any remaining matches MUST be fought. If your team has not been able to arrange the match, just make sure that YOU turn up at this time so you're not penalised for having a slack team. Subs will then be arranged for those who did not show.

So, it's just 3vP Again Then?

Kind of. Xanthus and Cap's 3vP was one of the best PvP events I've seen arranged and it'd be foolish not to follow what has been such a successful model, but....

Seeding!

That's right, there will be a seeding/class system in place. One of the biggest problems with 3vP was when you had squishy teams against completely non squishy teams. They either ended as a boring stalemate or complete whitewashes so I've tried to come up with a way around it. Each team will be made up of equal numbers of the same class so it will be one of each class in each team. Here are the classes.

Class A: Brutes, Stalkers, Tanks, Scrappers
Class B: MM's, Blasters, Corruptors, Warshades, Peacebringers
Class C: Defenders, Controllers, Dominators

I'v basically gone for class A as melee, Class B as other damage dealers and class C as support. I know there are some holes with Corruptors being a mix of support and damage and Kheldians being almost impossible to clarify but I drew some random teams using made up toons(not very made up though, I knicked them from the 3vP Union sign up ). After about 50 seperate draws using these rules the teams all came out reasonably balanced.

Signup

This is where it becomes a bit of a pain. I need a total sign up of 24 players. However, there can only be 8 of each class. If we do not get the 8 for each class, it can't happen.

I know this is a VERY small roster but I just want to run one first and see how it goes before expanding each class to 16 for a future event

Subs

Subs can ONLY be used for matches on the Monday night deadline session, all other matches are expected to take place with the specified line up. Subs have to be from the same class as the person they are subbing

The small print
1. In all cases, all communication with organisers must be via the Private Message system on these boards or global tells.
2. In the event of a dispute between teams, both team leaders should attempt to resolve the situation amicably and politely. If this is not possible, both team leaders should send details to an admin for adjudication.
3. The organisers may change or modify the rules at any time. Such changes will be announced on all the boards.
4. In all cases, the decisions of the organisers will be final.

Matches
5. Matches will be played as Ranked Custom Team events in the Arena at the Cruiserweight (38-40) weight class.
6. All members of both teams must be above the lower level limit for the appropriate Division. Higher level characters will be exemplared automatically.
7. Observer mode must be enabled in all matches. The tournament is a sporting event, and people should be free to watch it if they wish.
8. Matches not fought by the 20.00 deadline on Monday will result in a loss of life for all match competitors not at the arena

Technical problems during a match
9. If a player suffers a technical problem during a match, such as a crash or a disconnect, the rest of their team must continue and the match will still be valid, unless the opposing team leader agrees, in advance of the match, to restart the match if this occurs. Please note that team leaders could agree, for example, to restart if someone crashes on entering the Arena, but not if a crash occurs after a match has got underway. (I recommend using that agreement, but it's up to the two teams).
10. If a player suffers a crash or disconnect during a match, they are allowed to re-enter the match if they can log back on in time. To do so, the player should find the match in the Arena listing, and enter it as an observer. They will return to the match and their score will be retained. Please note that their timer will be incorrect (it gets reset), but the match will end at the proper time.

Conduct
11. At all times, the standard City of Heroes User Agreement and Rules of Conduct will apply.
12. The use of voice comms or any other communication with a team in a match is strictly prohibited. A team may use voice comms to communicate with each other, but not with anyone not on the team and taking part in the match.
13. Players or teams found to be exploiting bugs or other technical problems during any matches will be disqualified from the league. At the discretion of the organisers, their entire team or teams may also be disqualified.
14. Players or teams found to be cheating during any matches will be disqualified from the competition. At the discretion of the organisers, their entire team may also be disqualified.
15.If a team leader suspects members of another team to be cheating in any way, they should notify the organisers with all details. The organisers will then investigate the matter

[/ QUOTE ]

The pooling system where you organise people into pools according to their ATs is a good one. Then you only randomize the team by taking one player from each pool. Excellent idea.

The team size, 3, is great.

I recommend having one assigned fight night (sunday?) and one other night for backup. This is to help in organising, and the arbiter(s) can show up both nights to watch over the matches and possibly help organise.

EDIT: I can possibly help organise the next one.