Shockwave in pvp


Death_Badger

 

Posted

Im a claws scrapper who regulary engages in pvp, the ranged claw power "focus" is useful beyond measure. Mainly beacuse as a scrapper you lack any ranged moves until lev 41+ (unless your spines or claws) it has a good recharge, is the 2nd mmost damaging move of your set and it has a great knock up capability. what i want to know now is if "shockwave" is just as useful i have noticed that using it in PvE it has a annoying knockback effect (i duno about you guys but i really prefer knock up, means i dont have to run around like a fool) and im curious does it knockback or knockup in pvp? and whats the range on it like? i realise its not as far as "focus" and its nowhere near as damaging. the plan is to use it just as they are about to stand up after me using "focus" and hopefully "focus" will have recharged by the time they are about to stand up again.

focus is slotted with, 2 acc, 3dmg, 1 recharge

shockwave will be slotted with... 2 acc, 1 range, 1 end reduc (as according to hero builder it is the most end consuming of all claws techniques)

i have choosen not to put damage as i mainly want it for the knockback/up effect if its damage potential is near that of "slashes" however i will reconsider the slotting?


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Posted

it does knockback


 

Posted

Yep, it does knockback and is very useful for keeping squishies on their backs. In PvE I find it pretty useful as well, you can keep most of a group constantly on their backs with it.


 

Posted

Shockwave is useful for the range it has, but I wouldn't expect to be keeping anyone perma-KB'd with it. Worse than that, Shockwave really doesn't do your DPS any favours either, something that is important for PvP Claws Scrappers to try to keep as high as possible - not slotting it for damage will reduce that even further. (FYI, the damage dealt is similar to that of Strike.)

I PvP a lot with my Claws/SR, and I rarely use Shockwave in a "chain" with Focus to create a perma-KB (as most of the better PvP squishies will either have Acro or Hover/Fly) - if anything, I chain it as a sequence of ranged attacks. Other than that, I use it against rucks of enemies who've (foolishly ) bunched up, or not at all.

If all you're after is a perma Knockup/Knockdown effect (and don't want to chase people around), you might want to look into picking up Air Superiority. It's the same damage (albeit ST instead of Cone), less endurance, similar activation times, and Knockdown instead of Knockback. It lacks the range, but it does have -Fly.

edit: I7 changes to Claws include an endurance reduction for Shockwave.


@Synaesthetix
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Posted

In pve it hits 10, thats similar to hitting 10 mobs with strike simultaneously which sounds like good dps to me, knockbacks to walls help to reduce knockback distance and corner bunching is nice.

In pvp people dont bunch up and it can be way down on the list of priorities in your attack chain but a knockback on some people can buy time for any number of reasons and some people dont actually get knocked down anyway.

My claws attack chain can live without it but i'd sooner have it for its moments and uses than not have it.


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Posted

Just started my Claw/SR stalker hunter and interested in this aswell. For PvP I am thinking of getting Shockwave if focus isnt enough to get through Acrobatics (vs ninja stalkers). If Focus does break through Acrobatics then I think only use for Shockwave is vs MMs and even there the best way is just to kill the MM quickly.

Spaming Focus, Evicerate and the odd Follow Up should be more then enough I think for PvP. Infact if you get Follow Up stacked its probably the best damage a Scrapper can do.... in SC at least .


 

Posted

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Spaming Focus, Evicerate and the odd Follow Up should be more then enough I think for PvP.

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If all you want to do is hunt squishies, that'll be fine. If you want to take down the hardier foes, you might have to apply a touch more thought than that.

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Infact if you get Follow Up stacked its probably the best damage a Scrapper can do.... in SC at least .

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Follow Up allows for great sustainable damage, but that doesn't translate too well into Zonal PvP - seeing as you need to be constantly hitting Follow Up to make it work. If your opponent is dumb enough to stand there and let you hit them, then it's great - otherwise, you're left with the lower damage of Claws being occasionally boosted by Follow Up, which is far, far from "the best damage a Scrapper can do", being eclipsed by both Spines and BS.

You can make it work though, as I do on a regular basis.


@Synaesthetix
"Here, take some more bees with you. You may need them."
Union: FU//LoUD

"that Syn is that that" - Mothers Love

 

Posted

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Spaming Focus, Evicerate and the odd Follow Up should be more then enough I think for PvP.

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If all you want to do is hunt squishies, that'll be fine. If you want to take down the hardier foes, you might have to apply a touch more thought than that.

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Infact if you get Follow Up stacked its probably the best damage a Scrapper can do.... in SC at least .

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Follow Up allows for great sustainable damage, but that doesn't translate too well into Zonal PvP - seeing as you need to be constantly hitting Follow Up to make it work. If your opponent is dumb enough to stand there and let you hit them, then it's great - otherwise, you're left with the lower damage of Claws being occasionally boosted by Follow Up, which is far, far from "the best damage a Scrapper can do", being eclipsed by both Spines and BS.

You can make it work though, as I do on a regular basis.

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Hehe, prob true but thinking along the lines of TP Foe and Web Grenade. Backed up with hasten and quickness I am hopeing the speed of attacks should make up for things a little (focus every 3seconds).

Also Evicerate is probably better then Ripper since toxic damage doesnt crit and Evis has +crit chance so it really is just a case of keeping Follow Up on, but then Build Up isnt on all the time either so I am guessing you can knock them out of hide with Follow Up then use Web Grenade, Focus, Evicerate, Follow Up, Focus, something like that....

Problem Ive found with Build Up is when to use it. If a Stalker drops down next to you you have to do an attack first and cannot start with Build Up or you run the rist of AS. Then if you use BU they will be on their way so you have to use TP too early and may well not finish them in time. Well thats what Ive found so far, hate letting stalkers get away.

P.S. Found MA does more damage then Spines and BS in SC as long as you pin someone down due to faster recharge rate and animation (only really matters vs brutes though as Ive one hit MMs with MA ).


 

Posted

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Hehe, prob true but thinking along the lines of TP Foe and Web Grenade. Backed up with hasten and quickness I am hopeing the speed of attacks should make up for things a little (focus every 3seconds).

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The caveat I would make is that if you're having to use either TP Foe or Web Grenade as part of your attack chain, you're running the risk of wasting the benefit of Follow Up. This might not be massively important on every single occasion that said, but you get a really good return on the couple of attacks you can make when you have stacked Follow Up ; having single Follow Up running at all times should become the norm.

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Also Evicerate is probably better then Ripper since toxic damage doesnt crit and Evis has +crit chance so it really is just a case of keeping Follow Up on, but then Build Up isnt on all the time either so I am guessing you can knock them out of hide with Follow Up then use Web Grenade, Focus, Evicerate, Follow Up, Focus, something like that....

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The benefit of Build Up is that it's great burst damage, which is how Scrappers, Blasters, and Tanks alike pick up a lot of kills - it can also be enhanced to good benefit with ToHit buffs in order to trump defense. The idea behind Follow Up means it works great in PvE (on the rare occasions you need it to), but leave it lacking a little in PvP - and when it misses, you can be left tickling tougher foes with your somewhat weak Claw attacks. (Stalkers I usually knock out of AS with Follow Up, Strike, Brawl - one of them usually hits, and they all cycle quickly enough to hit before AS does.) Eviscerate is good, but the long animation makes it poor for opening and chaining DPS - great when you need to remove a chunk of damage at once, though.

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Problem Ive found with Build Up is when to use it. If a Stalker drops down next to you you have to do an attack first and cannot start with Build Up or you run the rist of AS. Then if you use BU they will be on their way so you have to use TP too early and may well not finish them in time. Well thats what Ive found so far, hate letting stalkers get away.

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Stalkers, even though they're probably the AT that gets most kills on my Claws/SR, are the AT that gives me least cause for concern - I certainly wouldn't waste a BU on them, they're weak enough that they're an easy kill anyway, even for Claws.

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P.S. Found MA does more damage then Spines and BS in SC as long as you pin someone down due to faster recharge rate and animation (only really matters vs brutes though as Ive one hit MMs with MA ).

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Again, it requires being able to chain attacks, much like Claws, and depends on the individual build - not every MA will chain faster than a Spines, for example. The real benefit of Claws and MA, really, is that you have chaining options and can adapt on the fly - I've faced off against all types of Brutes, had them make some [censored] comment about Claws, and then look somewhat foolish after they get planted with a well-placed Focus in their rear after they try to run, all because Claws can chain some serious damage out, in the right hands.

It does make me said when I see Claws Scrappers without Follow Up, though.


@Synaesthetix
"Here, take some more bees with you. You may need them."
Union: FU//LoUD

"that Syn is that that" - Mothers Love

 

Posted

Yup seen the same and no idea why, follow up is good and can knock someone out of AS as you say while setting you up for further damage.

End of the day though Ive played MA in SC and unfortunately as much as I was likeing Claws, esp for PvE, I think MA is the better choice and the hardest hitting there, even the changes to Claws have little effect .

Been interesting reading how you use it though and maybe someday Ill come back to Claws. Do you use spin if you get placated? Will be getting dragon's tail for that and the KB but spin would also work fine.

P.S. Hehe, I use BU on anything that moves as often as I can,even for MMs, still cant 1 hit stalkers, well not in SC anyway. Also TP Foe is really for after they try to get out of range, 2acc,2dist,2rech, works a treat .


 

Posted

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End of the day though Ive played MA in SC and unfortunately as much as I was likeing Claws, esp for PvE, I think MA is the better choice and the hardest hitting there, even the changes to Claws have little effect .

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I enjoy playing my Claws/SR precisely for the challenge those two sets offer, and to inject a modicum of variety into the environment - too many Spines/Regens spoil the broth, after all. I do enjoy having the option of range by playing Claws, though - it makes sustaining damage that much easier.

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Been interesting reading how you use it though and maybe someday Ill come back to Claws. Do you use spin if you get placated? Will be getting dragon's tail for that and the KB but spin would also work fine.

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If I get placated, I move back and get ready to use Aid Self. Actually, the main reason I get placated these days is to stop me from attacking, not to initiate AS. I couldn't justify putting Spin in my build just to drop Placate - if anything, I'd pick up I7's Slash for the improved DPS it provides - as I have other methods of avoiding Stalkers.


@Synaesthetix
"Here, take some more bees with you. You may need them."
Union: FU//LoUD

"that Syn is that that" - Mothers Love