The auto powers are less powerful, but they do stack with the toggles.
hum so i can't rely only on them, right?
The Auto shields are always on, so cost no endurance but they are quite a bit weaker than the toggles, and rightly so.
SR needs the whole set of powers to be chosen, simple as that 
If you rely on one thing to stay alive you should take as many of that type of power in your build as possible. Another example of this would be a /regen taking all of his heals and health from fitness, but I think it is even more important for defense sets as you are always playing a gambling game. More defense gives you better odds of coming out of a fight alive. 
Note/Tip: Taking pool powers etc for a small defense boost is a good thing. But!... (and it's a big but).... slotting that power beyond the intial slot to increase that boost is a waste of time. So I wouldn't even bother slotting anything for defense that doesn't come from SR.
So you're saying the extra 5% or so from CJ, and another 5 or so from Weave (when both are 3 slotted with def) doesn't help? That brings you up to 40% def with toggles and auto's (on a scrapper anyway, dunno about stalkers, and I mean the bonus from toggles and auto's not including base def)
[ QUOTE ]
So you're saying the extra 5% or so from CJ, and another 5 or so from Weave (when both are 3 slotted with def) doesn't help? That brings you up to 40% def with toggles and auto's (on a scrapper anyway, dunno about stalkers, and I mean the bonus from toggles and auto's not including base def)
[/ QUOTE ]
Not quite sure I understand you right sorry. I mean the powers are worth taking but the return for the slots you put in is pathetic, its well known that weave is a terrible power (now) and most wouldn't even take it let alone slot it.
So i'm saying take the powers but use your slots in your primaries and secondaries because they are way more important. Then you can think about throwing any spare slots about into pool powers, most builds don't have space and gain far more benefit from slotting a power with a much higher base value.
[ QUOTE ]
So you're saying the extra 5% or so from CJ, and another 5 or so from Weave (when both are 3 slotted with def) doesn't help? That brings you up to 40% def with toggles and auto's (on a scrapper anyway, dunno about stalkers, and I mean the bonus from toggles and auto's not including base def)
[/ QUOTE ]
According to character builder the difference between one slot in CJ (3.075%) and three slots (3.93375%) is 0.85875%, so there is some benefit but the question always is, is there somewhere else I can put those 2 slots that would be of more use than less than 1% extra Def?
Ok here's some figures from Joe Chott's planner.
Lvl50 Scrapper all SR defenses three slotted with +3 defence SO's, no elude.
Melee 27.5%
Ranged 27.5%
AoE 47.2%
Same lvl50 Scrapper all SR defenses three slotted with +3 defense SO's, no elude. With CJ and Weave slotted with the base one +3 SO defense enhancement in each.
Melee 34.6%
Ranged 34.6%
AoE 47.2%
Again the same lvl50 Scrapper all SR defenses three slotted with +3 defense SO's, no elude. But this time he has Combat Jumping and Weave both three slotted with +3 SO defense enhancements.
Melee 36.6%
Ranged 36.6%
AoE 47.2%
So yes it is a boost but four slots for a 2% increase in only two of the three categories, is that really worth it? I would prefer to take another 1st or 2nd tier pool power to give me more defense rather than slotting the ones I already had.
The same for a lvl40 Stalker. Hide one base defense slot, all SR defenses three slotted with +3 Defense SO's. No Elude.
Melee 36.8%
Ranged 36.8%
AoE 44.7%
Now i'll take every defense pool power I can get. Lvl40 Stalker, all SR defenses three slotted with +3 defense SO's. Hide one base defense slot. Weave, Combat Jumping, Stealth and Hover all one base +3 defense slot. No Elude.
Melee 49.1%
Ranged 49.1%
AoE 44.7%
Now i'll go nuts and three slot everything. Lvl40 Stalker, all SR defenses three slotted with +3 defense SO's. Hide three slotted for defense. Weave, Combat Jumping, Hover and finally Stealth three slotted for defense, all with +3's. No Elude. Totally unrealistic.
Melee 55.2%
Ranged 55.2%
AoE 47.3%
That would be what taking six powers to give a 12.3%/12.3%/0% increase. Adding the ten more slots to the five defense powers you would want to three slot would give a further 6.1%/6.1%/2.6% boost over the base one slotting. I hope this demonstrates how poor the returns really are on slotting 'most' pool powers in this manner and why they would be better used somewhere else.
[ QUOTE ]
So you're saying the extra 5% or so from CJ, and another 5 or so from Weave (when both are 3 slotted with def) doesn't help? That brings you up to 40% def with toggles and auto's (on a scrapper anyway, dunno about stalkers, and I mean the bonus from toggles and auto's not including base def)
[/ QUOTE ]CJ has been 2,5% since I5, and weave is 2,5% for stalkers as well. (Weave also has end cost of .34 EPS, which you really dont want as a /SR).
I guess I'm still thinking of I4 numbers (I think so anyway), I haven't played my 50 SR in that long... Oh well... If you're gonna take the powers not to slot them, I don't really see the point in taking them at all then, the def buff would be that small.
[ QUOTE ]
I guess I'm still thinking of I4 numbers (I think so anyway), I haven't played my 50 SR in that long... Oh well... If you're gonna take the powers not to slot them, I don't really see the point in taking them at all then, the def buff would be that small.
[/ QUOTE ]
You would take CJ because it's a pre-requisite for Superjump, with one slot it's just over 3% Def and has tiny endurance cost, it's good value.
To answer Ken's original question the base unslotted values according to Character Builder are:
Focused Fighting / Focused Senses: 12.% Def
Agile / Dodge: 5% Def
I would recommend using the builder so you can see what your slot budget works out at. This is a good example of how inadequate the in-game information is: there just isn't any guidance about how effective these powers are and this goes against Cryptic's design philosophy.
[ QUOTE ]
I guess I'm still thinking of I4 numbers (I think so anyway), I haven't played my 50 SR in that long... Oh well... If you're gonna take the powers not to slot them, I don't really see the point in taking them at all then, the def buff would be that small.
[/ QUOTE ]
Err thought I had already shown that taking a power wasn't too bad cost effective-wise, (all except Weave) but slotting it is a terrible waste. If you don't think what I'm saying is right, and taking defensive unslotted pool powers is a waste, i'm sure most of the experienced players on the forum would disagree with you, especially as Filth points out most would get some naturally anyway, but nevermind. 
Just to show you this in practise.
Same level50 SR scrapper with all SR shields 3 slotted with +3 SO's, no Elude.
Melee 27.5%
Ranged 27.5%
AoE 47.2%
Now lets show your 3 slotted CJ and Weave again ontop of that. No Elude.
Melee 36.6%
Ranged 36.6%
AoE 47.2%
Now lets take the first example and add single slotted defensive pool powers to it. Level50 SR scrapper with all SR shields 3 slotted with +3 SO's, Stealth, Combat Jumping and Hover all added with 1 base slot. No Elude.
Melee 36.8%
Ranged 36.8%
AoE 47.2%
So you can see that far from being not worth taking without slots, it proves more cost effective in terms of powers taken and slots used, than 3 slotting CJ and Weave.
what is the difference between the toggle shield and the auto one?
i mean for exemple Focused Fighting and dodge have thesame purpose: protection againt melee attack.
but do they protect the same amount/way?
can i take only the auto, which have the great advantage of being impossibble to untoggle, for PvP?