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Yeah, but we're talking about Fire/Dark. /Thermal doesn't have half as many expensive toggles as Dark - it doesn't have any toggles, in fact. What works for one build will not necessarily work for another, you have to assess all the components - not just one - if you're trying to give useful advice. /Dark is an end-hog - having a low-damage, quick-firing attack may work out better than a cone that you might not have the endurance to use, necessarily.
FYI, I have a Fire/ Corruptor, I'm not basing anything off Hero Planner.
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I'm not trying to give advice on /dark or /thermal i'm trying to give correct advice on fire/ because people have been giving misleading information based on hero planners.
I'm giving advice on fire/ and i'm sure someone has good advice for /dark or whatever this chap wants to play then its up to him to fit it all together or someone who has played that certain build whatever it maybe can give good advice.
Defiant's GoEH/MILITIS METUS
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Yeah, but we're talking about Fire/Dark. /Thermal doesn't have half as many expensive toggles as Dark - it doesn't have any toggles, in fact. What works for one build will not necessarily work for another, you have to assess all the components - not just one - if you're trying to give useful advice. /Dark is an end-hog - having a low-damage, quick-firing attack may work out better than a cone that you might not have the endurance to use, necessarily.
FYI, I have a Fire/ Corruptor, I'm not basing anything off Hero Planner.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not trying to give advice on /dark or /thermal i'm trying to give correct advice on fire/ because people have been giving misleading information based on hero planners.
I'm giving advice on fire/ and i'm sure someone has good advice for /dark or whatever this chap wants to play then its up to him to fit it all together or someone who has played that certain build whatever it maybe can give good advice.
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I think you've missed what both Syn and I were getting at... the point is that if you're playing Fire/Thermal, you may well be able to get away with using a lot of high-endurance attacks, but if you're playing Fire/Dark, you're most likely going to have more trouble doing so, because /Dark is a much more endurance-heavy set than /Thermal. Giving advice on Fire/ alone doesn't really add up when you're talking about something where you have to take both sets into account, which is what we were trying to do (as people who both play Fire/ Corruptors, and both play with /Dark toons as well).
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Yeah, but we're talking about Fire/Dark. /Thermal doesn't have half as many expensive toggles as Dark - it doesn't have any toggles, in fact. What works for one build will not necessarily work for another, you have to assess all the components - not just one - if you're trying to give useful advice. /Dark is an end-hog - having a low-damage, quick-firing attack may work out better than a cone that you might not have the endurance to use, necessarily.
FYI, I have a Fire/ Corruptor, I'm not basing anything off Hero Planner.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not trying to give advice on /dark or /thermal i'm trying to give correct advice on fire/ because people have been giving misleading information based on hero planners.
I'm giving advice on fire/ and i'm sure someone has good advice for /dark or whatever this chap wants to play then its up to him to fit it all together or someone who has played that certain build whatever it maybe can give good advice.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think you've missed what both Syn and I were getting at... the point is that if you're playing Fire/Thermal, you may well be able to get away with using a lot of high-endurance attacks, but if you're playing Fire/Dark, you're most likely going to have more trouble doing so, because /Dark is a much more endurance-heavy set than /Thermal. Giving advice on Fire/ alone doesn't really add up when you're talking about something where you have to take both sets into account, which is what we were trying to do (as people who both play Fire/ Corruptors, and both play with /Dark toons as well).
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oh god! .. your whole argument is about end useage with fire/dark when not once have i even mentioned that.
I made comments on the cone and range of firebreath which if you look ingame is listed as MEDIUM RANGE.. good god it says so on the power..as for the cone if you stand close to a mob you not going to get as many hits with it ..ITS A CONE .. stand back abit.
This is my argument .. NOT about end usage
get a grip
Defiant's GoEH/MILITIS METUS
[ QUOTE ]
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Yeah, but we're talking about Fire/Dark. /Thermal doesn't have half as many expensive toggles as Dark - it doesn't have any toggles, in fact. What works for one build will not necessarily work for another, you have to assess all the components - not just one - if you're trying to give useful advice. /Dark is an end-hog - having a low-damage, quick-firing attack may work out better than a cone that you might not have the endurance to use, necessarily.
FYI, I have a Fire/ Corruptor, I'm not basing anything off Hero Planner.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not trying to give advice on /dark or /thermal i'm trying to give correct advice on fire/ because people have been giving misleading information based on hero planners.
I'm giving advice on fire/ and i'm sure someone has good advice for /dark or whatever this chap wants to play then its up to him to fit it all together or someone who has played that certain build whatever it maybe can give good advice.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think you've missed what both Syn and I were getting at... the point is that if you're playing Fire/Thermal, you may well be able to get away with using a lot of high-endurance attacks, but if you're playing Fire/Dark, you're most likely going to have more trouble doing so, because /Dark is a much more endurance-heavy set than /Thermal. Giving advice on Fire/ alone doesn't really add up when you're talking about something where you have to take both sets into account, which is what we were trying to do (as people who both play Fire/ Corruptors, and both play with /Dark toons as well).
[/ QUOTE ]
oh god! .. your whole argument is about end useage with fire/dark when not once have i even mentioned that.
I made comments on the cone and range of firebreath which if you look ingame is listed as MEDIUM RANGE.. good god it says so on the power..as for the cone if you stand close to a mob you not going to get as many hits with it ..ITS A CONE .. stand back abit.
This is my argument .. NOT about end usage
get a grip
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No need to get nasty and tell me to "get a grip," this is a discussion about a build, not a flamewar. Read the last few posts again. We were talking about both the cone, and endurance usage of it, and whether that might make a low-endurance attack more useful:
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It's also worth noting that a Fire/Dark using Fire Ball and Fire Breath in a consistent attack chain is going to be a Corruptor gasping for endurance in a long fight. In end-heavy builds, I might be tempted to take Flares as an ST attack to take off the last chunk of HP... but to each their own.
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Never in my life would i swap flares for anything else in fire..flares is just to low damage.
Fireball and breath are perfectly fine with an end red in them and my fire/thermal has had a nice long life up to 39 and i say this so people know i have experiance of fire/thermal and don't just look on a hero planner !
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Yeah, but we're talking about Fire/Dark. /Thermal doesn't have half as many expensive toggles as Dark - it doesn't have any toggles, in fact. What works for one build will not necessarily work for another, you have to assess all the components - not just one - if you're trying to give useful advice. /Dark is an end-hog - having a low-damage, quick-firing attack may work out better than a cone that you might not have the endurance to use, necessarily.
FYI, I have a Fire/ Corruptor, I'm not basing anything off Hero Planner.
[/ QUOTE ]
So, in summation, Syn said using Fire Ball and Fire Breath might leave an endurance-heavy build gasping for endurance. You said on your Fire/Thermal that you didn't have a problem with endurance. Syn pointed out that we're discussing Fire/Dark, and that /Dark is generally more endurance-heavy than Thermal. That's what I was talking about in the last post - the fact that advice about the primary should take the secondary into account as well.
For the record, I went and had a look in-game, and cones are labled as Close, not Ranged, for whatever it's worth. I think it just means they have a smaller range than the normal single-target attacks, but no one was arguing that fact. 
However, from a very brief test, it looks like the range on Fire Breath is 40 feet - of course, if you want to hit a number of targets, you're going to end up closer to the ones in front. I'm not trying to argue with anything you've said with this, I'm just trying to put some information out there.
i think if you read back i never said i have no problem with endurance with fire/thermal ..i think you've just jumped to conclusions .. go on take a look at my posts .. none of the say anything about endurance.
And fire breath says medium range on it.. go look.
Defiant's GoEH/MILITIS METUS
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i think if you read back i never said i have no problem with endurance with fire/thermal ..i think you've just jumped to conclusions .. go on take a look at my posts .. none of the say anything about endurance.
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Go on, take a look.
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Fireball and breath are perfectly fine with an end red in them and my fire/thermal has had a nice long life up to 39 and i say this so people know i have experiance of fire/thermal and don't just look on a hero planner !
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Well hot diggity damn, I guess you'd better go back to your opticians and demand a refund.
@Synaesthetix
"Here, take some more bees with you. You may need them."
Union: FU//LoUD
"that Syn is that that" - Mothers Love
At this point, I doubt anyone's getting anything out of this conversation being continued. I'm sure that by now, Frozen_Rogue understands the various points everyone was trying to make, and that's what matters given this is a thread he made to ask about Corruptors... so I'm just going to drop it. 
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No need to get nasty and tell me to "get a grip," this is a discussion about a build, not a flamewar.
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well, technically, since you're discussing the relative merits of flame breath vs flares ....
/ducks
Synaesthetix:if your mum wasn't already dead I would go kill her for bringing
you into the world
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At this point, I doubt anyone's getting anything out of this conversation being continued. I'm sure that by now, Frozen_Rogue understands the various points everyone was trying to make, and that's what matters given this is a thread he made to ask about Corruptors... so I'm just going to drop it.
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Indeed I have, thank you all 
I just didn't say anything, and call be what you want, because I didn't want the subject to change even slightly because it was far to amusing
Ok, Syn, the set you listed in your first post were ones for a balster like corruptor, as much as possible, right. Well a high damage one I mean. This may sound stupid, but is that the only way to play a corruptor in PvP?
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Ok, Syn, the set you listed in your first post were ones for a balster like corruptor, as much as possible, right. Well a high damage one I mean. This may sound stupid, but is that the only way to play a corruptor in PvP?
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You can go completely the other way, and make a fully-team oriented build, or a build designed to counter a specific AT, or a build designed to make entire sets useless - all possible within the scope of the Corruptor.
Personally, I feel that you'd be ignoring your main function if you didn't focus on at least dishing out some damage - as that is your primary. Rad/, Sonic/, and Dark/ both have great direct debuffs in their attacks - -Def, -Res, -Acc - even if Rad/ and Dark/ tend to be eclipsed in outright overall damage by Fire, Ice, and Energy. In the secondaries, /Sonic has the 'best' (or at worst, most far-reaching) anti-mez in the entire scope of the Corruptor AT, solid debuffs (Sonic Siphon and Disruption Field), and great team buffs; Dark and Rad are similarly great for teams, if a little better than /Sonic for soloing. /Cold is odd, in that you can probably use it for a great team build and a great solo build - the debuffs in the set are at least as good, if not better than the 'shields' in the set; /Thermal, although obviously team oriented, I think is possibly less useful in PvP until the mid-late 30s, when its big debuffs come in. Heals are always welcome, of course, but villains are better at dishing out damage than they are at taking it - as such, it's my belief that most debuffs are critical to PvPing as a villain, as they boost 'our' advantage in a PvP setting, followed by buffs that do the same... shields and heals aren't nearly so useful, for my $.02. That's not to say that I've not come across some good PvPers who were /Thermal, but they're still somewhat restricted by their build.
@Synaesthetix
"Here, take some more bees with you. You may need them."
Union: FU//LoUD
"that Syn is that that" - Mothers Love
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thats incorrect .. its quite long range and has quite a large cone.
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Out of all the cones in the game, Fire Breath is one of the narrowest, and it's a melee cone. I might be slightly off on distances, but you still have to be up close and personal to use it, and its not very forgiving if you line it up wrongly.
That doesn't mean it's not a good attack, it's just not my personal preference. It's also worth noting that a Fire/Dark using Fire Ball and Fire Breath in a consistent attack chain is going to be a Corruptor gasping for endurance in a long fight. In end-heavy builds, I might be tempted to take Flares as an ST attack to take off the last chunk of HP... but to each their own.
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it has the same width cone as darks tenticles .. how do i know this because i play with a dark/dark corruptor and use the same cone he does and i hit the same target he does.
Please don't make out that firebreath can only be used at melee range because that would be untrue and misleading ..its medium range ..not short or melee.
Never in my life would i swap flares for anything else in fire..flares is just to low damage.
Fireball and breath are perfectly fine with an end red in them and my fire/thermal has had a nice long life up to 39 and i say this so people know i have experiance of fire/thermal and don't just look on a hero planner !
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Keep in mind, the person who started this thread was discussing a PvP build. Cones, as I've said, aren't always great in PvP, because you generally don't get the chance to hit more than one person. So, even if you ignore entirely what the range of the cone is, it's still questionable as to whether it's the best attack to take. In fact, I dropped the cone attack on my Ice Corruptor in favour of the low-damage attack available from level one, and have found it's helped me in PvP, since I don't run out of endurance so quickly, and it has more range to hit people as they try to escape.
Don't get me wrong, cones are nice, and I've missed it in PvE, but I wanted a stronger PvP build. Still, I wouldn't tell anyone to outright drop an attack, and I don't think anyone's doing that here - we're just pointing out our observations so that people have more information with which to make a decision. And as it happens, I don't really trust the various hero build numbers myself, I posted them previously more out of interest than anything else, though a quick test shows they're nowhere near correct - a few days before this topic was posted though, I commented that I felt like I hit a lot less mobs with Fire Breath than its Ice or Rad counterparts, which I think is in part what Syn was basing his comments on. I could be right, I could be wrong, but it's just my impression from playing Fire and other Corruptor sets, much like your feelings on the Fire and Dark cones.
And Syn is correct in pointing out that playing a Fire/Dark is going to be different than playing a Fire/Thermal, Thermal having rather lower endurance usage than Dark, which has two toggles. And that's based on my own experience playing as Ice/Dark, Fire/Cold, and Rad/Thermal, not on any planning program.