Simple Kin/Elec build questions


Amy_Amp

 

Posted

I am kinda new to the game and was wondering if my build would work? I really do not know what powers are a waste and which are not. I just based this on what appears to look good. Questions on my build and other things are below after the build. Thank you to anyone that takes time to review my post and respond.



Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/

[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]

Kinpower: Level 48 Science Defender
Primary Power Set: Kinetics
Secondary Power Set: Electrical Blast
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Electricity Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Transfusion -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Charged Bolts -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Siphon Power -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ball Lightning -- Empty(A)
Level 6: Siphon Speed -- Empty(A)
Level 8: Hasten -- Empty(A)
Level 10: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 12: Speed Boost -- Empty(A)
Level 14: Increase Density -- Empty(A)
Level 16: Health -- Empty(A)
Level 18: Inertial Reduction -- Empty(A)
Level 20: Stamina -- Empty(A)
Level 22: Maneuvers -- Empty(A)
Level 24: Lightning Bolt -- Empty(A)
Level 26: Transference -- Empty(A)
Level 28: Tesla Cage -- Empty(A)
Level 30: Assault -- Empty(A)
Level 32: Fulcrum Shift -- Empty(A)
Level 35: Voltaic Sentinel -- Empty(A)
Level 38: Thunderous Blast -- Empty(A)
Level 41: Tactics -- Empty(A)
Level 44: Thunder Strike -- Empty(A)
Level 47: Charged Armor -- Empty(A)
Level 49: Power Sink -- Empty(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Vigilance

1. Can I get enough reduction into hasten that I will be able to keep it up constantly. If so, how many slots will this take using mainly SO's? I want to have this up all the time so I can get as many stacks of powers as possible.

2. I skipped a travel power because I see many that say kinetics can use their powers to travel. Will I be okay with this build, or should I take super speed? How much faster is super speed than the siphon speed. How many slots would I need in that ability to equal super speed if that is possible.

3. Many post claim I do not need stamina, but I went with it cause of all the abilities I am going have on at once, plus I am new and wanted to get use to the game. I was not sure if the drain endurance would be able to keep up if I have to continuously use it. It does not seem like it would be enough if I miss one.

4. I went with electicity, but I see a lot of fire kinetics. Is the secondary skill going to make or break me at the end of the game? Is there a lot of bosses immune to electricity?

6. Is there a way to make a custom button on my bar? I want to make a key for some of the emotes, but do not see anyway to make one?

7. Is there a default key to press to respond to the last message that was sent to you. When someone sends me a message, I am right clicking on their name and selecting chat. Is there not an easier way to do this by just hitting a key?

Again, thank you for your attention.


 

Posted

First of all, welcome to CoH and the forums.

There's a lovely Guide to Kin/Elec, it's somewhat outdated, but a lot of the basics are covered.

A decent kin/elec depends a lot on your playing style and team choices. What works for one player will cause repeated faceplanting for another. Generally, you'll find yourself in melee range very often, and have to plan ahead for it.

I noticed you skipping short circuit. I'd never leave home without it. Well slotted, you can drain almost all minions with 1 - 2 applications. Transfusion, Ball lightning, and your elec attacks will keep em down, negating a lot of potential damage.

Also, you should invest some influence into the Energy Manipulator: Chance for Stun Proc. It's pretty cheap at WWs, and give you an additional factor of safety, especially when slotted into your AoEs.

Perma-hasten is nigh-impossible, unless you have influence to burn. Only very specific builds can pull it off, and only by spending insane amounts to achieve IO-Set boni. You'll prolly be running perma-Siphon Speed, with Hasten up 2/3rds of the time, which is already very impressive.

I'd advise against using siphon speed as your travel power. While it does work well in lower levels, later on (with increasing spawn size) attacking a spawn of outdoor mobs will get you aggro, and - if you're unlucky - debt. Also, Super Speed grants you partial stealth, which will protect you from being attacked while whizzing by mobs most of the time. There's also the very real danger of being ganked when it dies on you in the wrong place.

You're better off grabbing Inertial Reduction as a travel power, it's usually the one people refer to when saying kin has a built in travel power.

Stamina is a personal choice. Once you get transference, you should be fine, but I'd never skip it, nonetheless. Basically, taking stamina costs you three power picks, but you save a lot of slots dedicated for endurance reduction / end mod.

Fire/kin is a controller build, which was/is very popular for it's relatively safe method of dishing out good damage. It's a totally different playing style, and goal, than a kin/elec.

You can make custon buttons "macros". Best to check out the many guides on it.

Oh, and the "backspace" key (looks like this: <---) is what you need to reply to tells quickly.

Disclaimer: All info above is AFAIK, IIRC, IMHO and YMMV

Edit:
I decided to add the kin/elec I'm currently running, for comparison.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1,401
http://www.cohplanner.com/

[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]

Facette: Level 50 Technology Defender
Primary Power Set: Kinetics
Secondary Power Set: Electrical Blast
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Psychic Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Transfusion -- EnManip-Stun%:20(A), RgnTis-Regen+:30(3), Nictus-Heal/HP/Regen/Rchg:30(21), Nictus-Acc/Heal:50(34), Nictus-Acc/EndRdx/Heal/HP/Regen:50(48), Nictus-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg:50(50)
Level 1: Charged Bolts -- EnManip-Stun%:20(A), Dev'n-Hold%:50(3), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(19), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(34), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(46), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc/Rchg:50(50)
Level 2: Siphon Power -- Acc-I:50(A)
Level 4: Ball Lightning -- EnManip-Stun%:20(A), Det'tn-Dmg/EndRdx/Rng:50(5), Det'tn-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(5), Det'tn-Dmg/Rchg:50(7), Det'tn-Dmg/EndRdx:50(7), Det'tn-Acc/Dmg:50(9)
Level 6: Combat Jumping -- RedFtn-Def:50(A), RedFtn-EndRdx:50(9), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx:50(15)
Level 8: Siphon Speed -- P'ngTtl-Acc/EndRdx:50(A), TmpRdns-Acc/EndRdx:50(37), RechRdx-I:50(40)
Level 10: Short Circuit -- EnManip-Stun%:20(A), Efficacy-EndMod:50(11), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc/Rchg:50(11), Efficacy-Acc/Rchg:50(13), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc:50(13), Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg:50(15)
Level 12: Speed Boost -- RechRdx-I:50(A)
Level 14: Super Jump -- ULeap-Jump:50(A), ULeap-Stlth:50(17), ULeap-EndRdx:50(17)
Level 16: Increase Density -- RechRdx-I:50(A)
Level 18: Hurdle -- Jump-I:50(A), Jump-I:50(19)
Level 20: Acrobatics -- EndRdx-I:50(A), EndRdx-I:50(21)
Level 22: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+:50(A), Numna-Heal:50(23), Mrcl-Rcvry+:40(23), Mrcl-Heal:40(34)
Level 24: Stamina -- EndMod-I:50(A), P'Shift-EndMod:50(25), P'Shift-End%:50(25)
Level 26: Transference -- Efficacy-EndMod/EndRdx:21(A), Efficacy-EndMod:50(27), Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg:50(27), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc/Rchg:50(31), Efficacy-Acc/Rchg:50(37), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc:50(43)
Level 28: Tesla Cage -- Lock-%Hold:50(A), Lock-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold:50(29), Lock-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold:50(29), Lock-Rchg/Hold:50(31), Lock-Acc/Rchg:50(40), Lock-Acc/Hold:50(40)
Level 30: Hasten -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(31)
Level 32: Fulcrum Shift -- Acc-I:50(A), Acc-I:50(33), RechRdx-I:50(33), RechRdx-I:50(33)
Level 35: Voltaic Sentinel -- BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg:50(A), BldM'dt-Dmg/EndRdx:50(36), BldM'dt-Acc/EndRdx:50(36), BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(36), BldM'dt-Acc:50(37), BldM'dt-Dmg:50(39)
Level 38: Maneuvers -- RedFtn-Def:50(A), RedFtn-EndRdx:50(39), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx:50(39)
Level 41: Dominate -- Lock-Acc/Hold:50(A), Lock-Acc/Rchg:50(42), Lock-Rchg/Hold:50(42), Lock-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold:50(42), Lock-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold:50(43), Lock-%Hold:50(43)
Level 44: World of Confusion -- CoPers-Conf:50(A), CoPers-Conf/Rchg:50(45), CoPers-Acc/Conf/Rchg:50(45), CoPers-Acc/Rchg:50(45), CoPers-Conf/EndRdx:50(46), CoPers-Conf%:50(46)
Level 47: Mind Over Body -- Aegis-Psi/Status:50(A), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx:50(48), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:50(48)
Level 49: Tactics -- Rec'dRet-ToHit/Rchg:20(A), Rec'dRet-ToHit:20(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Vigilance



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Posted

I won't comment too much on the build, especially because that depends on what you want to do more with the character (at a glance, it looks like you don't want to solo). Even without soloing MUCH, I'd still recommend you try to fit Lightning Bolt in the Build. Charged Bolts aren't so quick like Neutrino Bolt, to make an attack chain all on their own.

With a Kin/Elec, I'd probably try to fit in Short Circuit, too, to sap (drain endurance from the enemies so they can't do anything). Sapping might not work as great as you'd expect, and Short Circuit has a huge animation time, but it's not bad damage (especially after you use FS) and sapping does help.

And while defenders do great with the Leadership pool, it's not helping you that much: maneuvers is adding very little mitigation to you or your team, unless you're teamed with other defense based people. I hardly ever miss Tactics, since everybody slots to hit what they need already (and outside PVP, Knives of Artemis and a few Arachnos, you won't miss the extra perception, either). Finally Assault, which is usually great for defenders, doesn't help you that much from 32 on, since you'll likely be damage-capped almost all the time with Fulcrum Shift. If you team a lot and really want the Leadership Pool, though, try to go for Vengeance. Word is that it's more than worth it, despite being situational.

Finally, I don't think you need BOTH transference and Power Sink. Transference recharges real fast (in case you miss) and comes MUCH earlier, so I'd stick with it. Power Sink could make a 1-2 combo with SC to sap a whole group quickly, though, so later you might wanna try out trading one for the other in a respec.

As for the questions:

1. You can only slot 3 enhancements to the same aspect of a power (for instance, 3 recharge reduction in hasten) before ED kicks in and further enhancements are worth almost nothing. So you can only cut hasten's recharge time in about half (a bit more than that, since hasten affects it's own recharge time while it's up) and it won't be permanent. If you slot some recharge reduction in siphon speed, though, and stack it as often as you can, Hasten is gonna be close to perma. You CAN make it perma using a lot of bonuses from invention sets and stuff, but it gets expensive and not so simple, I wouldn't go for it so soon.

2. Siphon Speed can be tricky to use as a travel power because you might miss, you're running on the ground without the stealth that super speed provides and you draw the attention of the baddie you siphoned from AND from his friends. It's great before you can get a real travel power, but use with care. Inertial Reduction, though, is a great travel power, arguably better than SJ since it cannot be detoggled and has no supression. So you don't need a travel power: stick with careful use of siphon speed for only 4 quick levels and at 18, instead of 14, you get a great travel power. Try to add a Stealth IO for extra safety.

3. You don't need stamina (even with a couple leadership toggles and your armor). But I like having it, too. Especially since Transference doesn't arrive all that quick. Then again, that's 3 power picks, and while Hurdle and Health are really good, they're not as useful to you as some of the other options...

4. The fire/kin's you see all around are controllers (using fire control), not defenders. They make all the enemies stand still doing some fire damage over time, and after level 32 they let their 3 maniac pets go crazy on the controlled enemies (later still, they throw firballs at them). It chews the baddies up fast. If you want to lock everybody in place and let your pets chew them, go fire/kin. If you wanna blast (and maybe sap) and provide even bigger buffs and debuffs, kin/elec is fine. If you wanna blast but don't wanna sap (although I find sapping fun!), you might look at other defender secondaries: kin/ice does huge damage, kin/son increases everybody's damage even more than just a kin, kin/rad is an AoE monster (and the def debuff helps your kinetics powers hit), kin/dark adds some mitigation lacking for most kins (then again, so does sapping)... Every secondary brings something good to the table. People complain about electric being low damage, though. Just pick what you think is fun and give it a try for a while.

5. You skipped 5!

6. There is. Check out the player guides section for guides about macros.

7. Hit backspace. Took me a while to find that one, too.


Playing CoH with Gestures

 

Posted

Thank you for the well thought out posts.

I might switch to Kin/Ice after reading all the information. I want to have kins, but also do some damage if needed.

1. Would it be wise to take stealth to help with travel if I use the Inertial Reduction instead of the leadership pool.

2. By "ED", do you mean the enhancements have diminishing returns? Is that 3 per any type of enhancement per power. If I put 3 damage enhancements into a power, the 4th will be less effective and I probably should use an accuracy or endurance reduction. Is that what you are referring too?


 

Posted

Siphon Speed is faster than Super speed! It's totally awesome at low lvls when your buddies first get super speed, and they're still lagging behind your siphon speeded toon. Did I mention that it doesn't suppress during combat? It is totally un-awesome when it misses, however and you need to stand around for 20 seconds for it to recharge.

My Kin/En has about 8-12 seconds of down-time for Hasten when she can get her ~2.3 siphon speeds rolling. I believe it takes 95% rech in Hasten and 110% global recharge to perma it. Siphon Speed is a 20% recharge buff, so if you can manage to keep 2 rolling most of the time, you only need another 70% to perma Hasten. In most cases, it won't be worth it, however, as having better, more relevant enhances is better than closing that 10 second gap of hasten down time. The Kin primary is slightly hosed in this respect, as most of the primary powers don't take sets with recharge bonuses.

I still take superspeed on my kin, and have a stealth IO for full invisibility. It really helps for positioning for kinetic effects, all of which can potentially draw aggro. I actually have Hover, SuperSpeed, and Inertial Reduction along with siphon speed, so I have a lot of travel options. My secondary is energy, and its a very attack-light build.


 

Posted

I have one of these... and I love it

[ QUOTE ]
I noticed you skipping short circuit. I'd never leave home without it. Well slotted, you can drain almost all minions with 1 - 2 applications. Transfusion, Ball lightning, and your elec attacks will keep em down, negating a lot of potential damage.


[/ QUOTE ]

yes, don't miss short circuit, you'll want to slot it for endurance modifiers, at early levels it you've slotted your transfusion as well with endo mods you'll be able to sapp that one targets endurance almost completly and gotten most of the mobs endo at the same time.

also with this build you'll probably find yourself running into the middle of the mob directly after the tanks/scrappers to grab your fulcrum shift, because I find myself there I took dark mastery for the AoE stun toggle...it's much fun, but thats a personal preference of mine.

the main things you'll be able to do with this build is sap enderance like none other, and floor an Archvillian's regeneration with putting transfusion on auto on the target.

check out the build guides, theres some good info stored there and don't be afraid to send pm's to anyone that you notice has listed a kin/ele in their sigs, most of us can answer really specific questions that come up that might not be in the guides.

edit:
Kin/Ice is also a very nice build....ice has very nice burst damage and with the rain you have the potential of some very nice DoT damage.


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
I want to have kins, but also do some damage if needed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't get me wrong, any Kin will do great damage after using Fulcrum and Electric isn't all that bad. But I thought I should point out the usual complaint about its low damage, though (people complain about it lacking a third, hard-hitting blast like most other blast sets, saying that what it gets instead, Voltaic Sentinel, doesn't help all that much). I still enjoy playing my electric blast characters... But if you don't want to sap, electric does look kinda wasted. Kin/Ice is real good, too.

[ QUOTE ]
1. Would it be wise to take stealth to help with travel if I use the Inertial Reduction instead of the leadership pool.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't go so far as grabbing the stealth pool (might as well grab super speed instead, it grants you stealth, too). What I meant is a Stealth IO Enhancement that you can slot in travel powers (even in sprint and, yeah, in Inertial Reduction). They tend to be expensive but you'll make tons of moneyanyway, from your late thirties on, even if you never touch the market. So even if you don't want to worry about Inventions, investing in a stealth IO (and in a knockback protection IO, too) when you have the money will help a lot.

[ QUOTE ]
By "ED", do you mean the enhancements have diminishing returns? Is that 3 per any type of enhancement per power. If I put 3 damage enhancements into a power, the 4th will be less effective and I probably should use an accuracy or endurance reduction. Is that what you are referring too?

[/ QUOTE ]

That's exactly what I mean (ED = enhancement diversification). Also: accuracy is probably even more important than damage in your attacks (and it's real important in your kin stuff, too). Plan to add 1 or 2 Accuracy SOs in all of them (more than that is usually overkill).


Playing CoH with Gestures

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
There's a lovely Guide to Kin/Elec, it's somewhat outdated, but a lot of the basics are covered.

[/ QUOTE ]

Page four has more current basic builds. I really need to do a Kin/elec 101 type guide that gets it a little more updated, but I'm horrible at doing projects in my free time. Kins are the most diverse build to take on so there simply isn't a "do this" type method to how to build one. Once you understand the pros and cons of deciding on the travel power and fitness debate, it becomes a lot easier.

EDIT: I would consider the build I posted in the guide thread to be even outdated for me. Yes, it works and you can get it to 50 since it's pretty much my current build, but if I was rolling one again, the final build would look different even with mostly common IOs.


 

Posted

You've already received some great advice in this thread, so let me give an endorsement to what the others have posted and support them with a bit about my experiences.

I have a kin/elec defender and an elec/kin corruptor. They both play very much the same, but I have to say the corruptor is more fun for me. Seeing "Scourge" over the heads of foes when I throw ball lightning or even short circuit is very satisfying.

As others have said, kin/elec is all about sapping. First you drain their endurance, then you defeat them while they stand around looking at you. I love it! But, if you don't like sapping, don't take electric blast. Find another power to use with kinetics.

Kin has, IMHO, the best heal in the game. It has to hit its target and you have to be close to get healed, but it heals for huge amounts.

In the end, play the powerset you like and not the one everyone else tells you to play. Just have fun with the game!