[ QUOTE ]
-I have more than enough influence to get whatever IOs and IO sets I need, if they can be bought, mostly from the days when I was a farmer - yes, I too have gone the Fire/Kin route, before I realized that zipping from 1 to 50 was skipping the game, not playing it.
-I am a strange creature in that for me, it is the journey from 1 to 50 that is the CoH/V game for me. I find playing after reaching 50 pointless, so at 50, I retire my character and start a new - probably why I have 15+ 50s across two accounts. 
[/ QUOTE ]
That part seems to be in direct contradiction to this part:
[ QUOTE ]
-Oh, that's the other thing - what I will probably spend most of my time doing is AE missions with lots of bosses in them - perhaps nothing but level 52 or 54 bosses - most of which seem to attack with smashing and lethal and have a fair amount of KB.
[/ QUOTE ]
Tanks don't get tankish until at least level 22 with SOs, and still aren't super durable until their 30s when all the armors and heals are available and slotted up.
If you're spending most of your time sitting in level 52+ AE boss farms... isn't that the same thing as skipping the game
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
One of the challenges (if this works) will be coming up with the IO sets for softcapping Defense...
[/ QUOTE ]
I think I can safely say that it's already been done for all the tanks sets that are capable of soft-capping.
[/ QUOTE ]
Which ones *aren't* capable of soft capping, so that I may rule them out for certain?
[/ QUOTE ]
The ones that don't have any defense to begin with. But even those can soft-cap to some positions.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
-I have more than enough influence to get whatever IOs and IO sets I need, if they can be bought, mostly from the days when I was a farmer - yes, I too have gone the Fire/Kin route, before I realized that zipping from 1 to 50 was skipping the game, not playing it.
-I am a strange creature in that for me, it is the journey from 1 to 50 that is the CoH/V game for me. I find playing after reaching 50 pointless, so at 50, I retire my character and start a new - probably why I have 15+ 50s across two accounts.
[/ QUOTE ]
That part seems to be in direct contradiction to this part:
[ QUOTE ]
-Oh, that's the other thing - what I will probably spend most of my time doing is AE missions with lots of bosses in them - perhaps nothing but level 52 or 54 bosses - most of which seem to attack with smashing and lethal and have a fair amount of KB.
[/ QUOTE ]
Tanks don't get tankish until at least level 22 with SOs, and still aren't super durable until their 30s when all the armors and heals are available and slotted up.
If you're spending most of your time sitting in level 52+ AE boss farms... isn't that the same thing as skipping the game?
[/ QUOTE ]
There are two different ways to be involved with CoX - actively or passively. It's passive when you doorsit and someone else does all the defeating baddies while you do nothing but wait and reap the rewards. It's active when you get to go out and fight and make *some* kind of difference, no matter how small.
Passively doorsitting while my character gets levelled to 50 is skipping the game - especially given my commitment that the only worthwhile thing to do in this game is to journey to 50. However, actively playing one's character on the journey to 50, filling out the character, learning and experiencing new powers and new strategies - that is NOT skipping the game, that *is* the game. Farms don't skip the game if you fight, they are just the equivalent of taking a hot rod cross country instead of a station wagon.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
One of the challenges (if this works) will be coming up with the IO sets for softcapping Defense...
[/ QUOTE ]
I think I can safely say that it's already been done for all the tanks sets that are capable of soft-capping.
[/ QUOTE ]
Which ones *aren't* capable of soft capping, so that I may rule them out for certain?
[/ QUOTE ]
The ones that don't have any defense to begin with. But even those can soft-cap to some positions.
[/ QUOTE ]
That is not an answer, that is instead telling me to go figure it out myself - but that's OK, the other poster was more helpful.
For Great Justice!
OK, another question/concern. (And btw, thanks Finduilas.)
Survivability is an important concern, but obviously so is grabbing and retaining aggro. While the Invuln set is quite good it seems at survivability (especially with respect to S/L), I don't see a damage aura as part of it. If Invuln has no way to generate aggro, then all the aggro management has to come from elsewhere - such as the secondary.
Now I am going to take Taunt, of course, but besides that, what are my options? Because as far as I can see, there is only one.
Each secondary (more or less) has one fast charging PBAoE, and a bunch of ST attacks. (/Dark has additional AoEs but with long recharges of 60 to 90 seconds, less useful for maintaining aggro lock.)
To start with, for aesthetic reasons I would prefer to avoid the Weapon secondaries, as I have previously noted - although if someone demonstrates that one of them is *that* much more effective, I would still consider it. But barring that, that eliminates Battle Axe, Dual Blades, War Mace, and possibly Stone Melee. This leaves Dark Melee, Energy Melee, Fiery Melee, Ice Melee, Super Strength, and possibly Stone Melee.
Energy Melee has two fast charging attacks - Whirling Hands and Stun - but Stun does no damage - does it help keep aggro?
Fiery Melee has Combustion and Fire Sword Circle - and Combustion's Radius is a healthy 15, instead of the 10 or so you usually get.
Stone Melee - do Tremor, Fault, and other attacks do KnockDOWN or KnockBACK? The latter would be unhelpful, but if it's the former, than Fault plus Tremor give us 2 15' radius PBAoEs that I assume can be used to manage aggro.
Super Strength also has a non Damage PBAoE - Hand Clap - can this generate aggro?
Dark as previously noted just has the one quick PBAoE Siphon Life - and the radius on that is a paltry 8' - I am guessing that the best pairing of Dark would be with a primary that also generates aggro.
And Invuln doesn't, right?
So what's the answer - which of these give the best aggro management tools to an Invuln Tank?
For Great Justice!
[ QUOTE ]
OK, another question/concern. (And btw, thanks Finduilas.)
Survivability is an important concern, but obviously so is grabbing and retaining aggro. While the Invuln set is quite good it seems at survivability (especially with respect to S/L), I don't see a damage aura as part of it. If Invuln has no way to generate aggro, then all the aggro management has to come from elsewhere - such as the secondary.
[/ QUOTE ]
You've missed Invincibility. It's hard to see it because the power offers several things and does not do damage, but Invincibility is a taunt aura. It gives:
<ul type="square">[*]Some base defense when one foe is in range, plus additional defense per foe in range [*]Some to-hit for every foe in range [*]and generates Taunt (mag 4) control on every foe in range, with a 16.875 second duration[/list]
It's a very good taunt aura, strong and long-lasting. Note that it has advantages in some circumstances over damage auras -- you could help out newbies by standing in mobs which would turn to target you, but you wouldn't do any damage that would reduce their exp or "kill-steal."
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
----------------------------------------------------------
The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
[ QUOTE ]
Survivability is an important concern, but obviously so is grabbing and retaining aggro. While the Invuln set is quite good it seems at survivability (especially with respect to S/L), I don't see a damage aura as part of it. If Invuln has no way to generate aggro, then all the aggro management has to come from elsewhere - such as the secondary.
[/ QUOTE ]
Invincibility is the second best agro generating aura in the game. (Arguably the best, but ice is better imo). It is the reason I can wander around 54 boss farms from 28 onward on my invuln scrappers as a "tank" - I can lock down mob agro without issue due to the taunt aura.
Edit: Took a brand new (no vet badge, just hit 50) tanker into a pug 54 farm last night... I asked him if he had a taunt aura, he said "no but I have taunt" ... invited him figuring "what the heck, a half competent agro holder is better than none" and then found out he was INV/SS. Proceeded to explain to him that he had an amazing taunt aura and how to use our two taunt auras to hold maximum mob attention in a kill zone. He was pretty good by the end, too. Invuln's great for taunt.
Wow, glad to hear about Invincibility - didn't see that in Mids - guess that takes some pressure off of the secondary.
On the other hand, Invinc is only 8' radius, so having a few more options would be nice...what about pairing Invuln with Fiery Melee - Combustion and FSC both PBAoEs, lotsa of DoT, Combustion has wide radius - does that work?
Can an Invuln/Fire get softcapped Def, high resists (with 90% S/L), grab agro well, and still manage do dish out some decent damage? Is this one of the better ideas, especially against an AE boss farm?
And I assume that Stamina would be desired, as would Combat Jumping (for def), and Tough and Weave?
Thanks.
For Great Justice!
[ QUOTE ]
On the other hand, Invinc is only 8' radius, so having a few more options would be nice...what about pairing Invuln with Fiery Melee - Combustion and FSC both PBAoEs, lotsa of DoT, Combustion has wide radius - does that work?
Can an Invuln/Fire get softcapped Def, high resists (with 90% S/L), grab agro well, and still manage do dish out some decent damage? Is this one of the better ideas, especially against an AE boss farm?
And I assume that Stamina would be desired, as would Combat Jumping (for def), and Tough and Weave?
Thanks.
[/ QUOTE ]
Uh... yes?
I do this on invuln/fire/body and invuln/dm scrappers. They're much harder to cap. A tank is a cakewalk
I find my dark/fire/pyre tanker doesn't hold up well in the farms my invuln/fire/body scrapper strolls through (heavy S/L of course) ... I'm debating reworking her IO's to softcap her S/L.
Anyhoo. Invuln/Fire/Pyre is fine. There is a recently constructed fantastic guide on invuln typed-defense softcapping, see the guides thread. You will definitely want stamina, tough and weave. CJ is somewhat optional, I'd probably take it just for more general +all defense but it depends on what your build has room for. I prefer hasten on about 98% of my characters, too.
Cool! Hey - why Pyre over Earth? I heard somewhere that Salt Crystals was a huge radius gimme aggro power, and Quicksand sounds like a good way to keep baddies nearby. What would you take in Pyre - is it just for more Damage?
For Great Justice!
... cuz I like damage. Also, fireballs to the face do make for agro, and it has decent range at that.
[ QUOTE ]
And I assume that Stamina would be desired, as would Combat Jumping (for def), and Tough and Weave?
[/ QUOTE ]
If you're Inv/SS, Stamina will be very important, because the Rage crash knocks off a quarter of your end bar in addition to all the rest of your activities. Other Inv/* Tankers won't be quite so bad, but generally you'll do more stuff per time period with Stamina than without.
I personally went with CJ, Tough, and Weave to make my Inv Tanker stronger. Some people feel like taking Tough to move your S/L resists to the 90% cap is overkill. Generally they are right, outside of super-heavy-duty tanking like hard AE custom content.
But it's just so cool to get hit by someone's huge sword and see a tiny "13" pop up for damage. 
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
----------------------------------------------------------
The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
[ QUOTE ]
... cuz I like damage. Also, fireballs to the face do make for agro, and it has decent range at that.
[/ QUOTE ]
Do the epics also work with Gauntlet/Punch-voke then? Does a Fireball from a tanker work to taunt the baddies it hits? Or are you thinking more as an alpha, before anyone else generates aggro?
For Great Justice!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
... cuz I like damage. Also, fireballs to the face do make for agro, and it has decent range at that.
[/ QUOTE ]
Do the epics also work with Gauntlet/Punch-voke then? Does a Fireball from a tanker work to taunt the baddies it hits? Or are you thinking more as an alpha, before anyone else generates aggro?
[/ QUOTE ]
I use it to get another group into the group I'm currently in? Easier than running over there and hitting them, after all.
Logged into game; +400% taunt for 13.5s is what power info says.
I'll throw out my recommendation for Invul/Fire/Pyre.
The 3 big AoE's (FSC, Combustion, Fireball) help aggro along with Invinc.
I built mine for capped S/L def, recharge, end recovery and damage. Just recently tanked the I15 TF with no problems.
Considering dropping Unstoppable since I never use it.
We don' need no stinkin' signatures!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And I assume that Stamina would be desired, as would Combat Jumping (for def), and Tough and Weave?
[/ QUOTE ]
If you're Inv/SS, Stamina will be very important, because the Rage crash knocks off a quarter of your end bar in addition to all the rest of your activities. Other Inv/* Tankers won't be quite so bad, but generally you'll do more stuff per time period with Stamina than without.
I personally went with CJ, Tough, and Weave to make my Inv Tanker stronger. Some people feel like taking Tough to move your S/L resists to the 90% cap is overkill. Generally they are right, outside of super-heavy-duty tanking like hard AE custom content.
But it's just so cool to get hit by someone's huge sword and see a tiny "13" pop up for damage.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, trying (as I normally do) to hit the most effective I can - and a 90% S/L gets me to 1 boss hit's worth of damage every 110 boss hits - which is insane!
And the nice thing is that since I play for the journey from 1 to 50, I can push Tough/Weave back back a few levels if I need to pull something else in for QoL along the way...
For Great Justice!
OK, you guys have sold me on giving a Invuln/Fire/Pyre my all... Gonna drop off the forums for a bit, put my head down, and try to work up a MIDS build that will be fun to play through. I have plenty of Inf, so expensive sets aren't a huge issue, however, sets that don't appear on the marketplace with regularity are a potential worry.
Also, I have around 4 vet respecs per toon, so I will probably make a pre-22 build, a pre 32 build, and a post 32 build - or something similar.
Thanks
For Great Justice!
[ QUOTE ]
Also, I have around 4 vet respecs per toon, so I will probably make a pre-22 build, a pre 32 build, and a post 32 build - or something similar.
Thanks
[/ QUOTE ]
Forwarning: I am an unabashed powergamer and I don't like the low levels.
I typically zoom to 35ish and don't enhance till 22 - and I grab crappy lowbie IO's for key powers as I go up.
When I hit the 40's, I use an alternate build to free-spec into my 'final' goal and start getting real IO's slotted.
I have vet specs lying around, but why waste one
Here's my current no-purple Invul/Fire/Pyre in case you want something to look at. I'm sure others have come up with other variations, but this is working well for me. I had some end problems so I bought a Performance Shifter +EndMod proc and ran a few Posi TFs and bought a Numi +regen/+recov and Miracle +recov. I do just fine now.
Recharge seems about right for BU and the three AoE's. Greater FS is good for the LTs and Bosses that are left.
Don't forget the mechanics of invinc -- you need to jump into the middle of the biggest group of baddies as quickly as possible. Don't taunt from afar -- get in there and then pull them to you!
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
|MxDz;1400;677;1354;HEX;|
|78DAA5944D53526114C79F0B1711051141404448D0D4D49BE E7A59B4C89CB1C9195|
|2735519E293DEA4AB71B1895D1FC045AD5AB5EB755D4D357D 8B32C7FA1CEDE99CF3|
|7FB4695AC60CFFDFE5DCF3FC9F739E17161FCD45957A7C495 9D1CBF5AAEFAFAD54B|
|D6DDD082FD75CEDD5B40A2BA50A88ADCDE9BBDAF3B5B3E03D DCAB7BBA515D77EB6E|
|B39535AF17755D6B67DED58D169E130BDE966E68AFE91C3F7 4557676EACEF2AED61|
|B51799C779B9EF6FD98F9B1B9D574BDCD84FCA2595CDFC514 892BBB6ECDA9B41A7A|
|6DB1EA3769862CD53541DF6F11128BBEAA1D5453845915F80 BF6B020D1A5CC87F22|
|A8492B2AF0B3A968065C101F959C6CF9A94A19D0623822E20 497E41F88582BB78D3|
|10441F00BEA0A709EC094AB49C21B80742B0ED05FA80439A3 E6CA60FA3815EA00F4|
|8A19D0E328A204F45C6256451A8DB74D88D0E53E8308D0ED3 E8B04C7931333406B7|
|3085E2A6ACF80D8B4353ABC055C2983AA2B212B22C6D2BD12 F6F722941270D4D9A8|
|293FB010E9D790A3C019E09D2B45EFDC80BF5BF9050F9A560 E40DF00A782D187B2B|
|08927BC61496C1024C01D3667729610009F640016F50D834C A9C45870619AA62D0E|
|CDA20762D8F5DCB63D70AD8B561EC5A19BBF683BA1F32550C C1BD00F702A64C916D|
|D1D816B7A4F253F70017D8160CD781FB82AF645B82AD55423 B656E76480D90DFA8F|
|11BBD236F4E578175604330A601347744E771DC1C80F18300 1B4D7C078E8043C12F|
|BAF093C853934519FA93863A08D9CE3B099D7D0F7C003E611 93F229D2A9F310E333|
|8B879FB9FFB95C5E9CBE2F4E570FAAED927F7952E90AC43C5 36110A992B37F127EB|
|BF3E9FA3C7554596F80F6085A5C2B2CA7293E516CB6D962AC B3A4B8DA5FDE56474F|
|C1C17749EE502CB45967D4E0AF395EB6689B2C4587A58E22C BD2C4996344B8EE539|
|4BFB37FC55ECBD|
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|</pre><hr />
We don' need no stinkin' signatures!
[ QUOTE ]
Which ones *aren't* capable of soft capping, so that I may rule them out for certain?
[/ QUOTE ]
It depends on whether you want to include builds that are soft-capped for all positions or types, or just the most critical ones. (Which most consider to be S/L or Melee, with E/NE or Ranged to be the second most important.)
The pure defense sets like Shield and Ice are pretty easily capped for most or alll types/positions, and Invul can be capped for several defense types. (see Call-Me-Awesome's great guide for more information.) And though I haven't seen a completely capped Dark build, I have a Dark/Mace build in Mid's that has 43% defense to S/L and E/NE.
I don't know Willpower or Fire well enough to say one way or another for those sets, so hopefully someone will come along and give you the lowdown on them!
My Characters
Knight Court--A CoH Story Complete 2/3/2012