Make SS/Rage -def resistable


Greyhame

 

Posted

Once again the rumor mill is busy with tales of SuperStrength nerfs to come. Those of us who have been around awhile are expecting something to be changed eventually - at the very least the stacking bug which allows the penalty to be bypassed.

However, the -def penalty has a disproportionately negative effect on sets which rely on defense for most of their mitigation. So what if the -def was made (at least partially) resistable? The same defense-heavy sets also tend to get def-debuff resistance - allowing the penalty to be moderated to more even levels.


 

Posted

you can't bypass the rage crash or it's effects. if you stack it all that happens is you crash sooner. and for that matter the crash only lasts 10 secs. what rage is is a 2 min build up. it needs some cool down time(the 10 secs) for a reason. if you want to counter the -def then watch for when rage is crashing, it goes transparent, and eat some purple insps. thats what i do.


 

Posted

Ok so lets say 2 toons are getting hit by the potential of 1000 points of damage per second from several different minions.

One is SR exactly at the soft cap of 45%
The other is Elec and they are being hit with the most common damage type S/L. The Elec resistance with tough is just about 60% fully slotted. We will also pretend that this elec took weave as well as combat jumping. Only fair as the SR would have probably made the same choices to hit the soft cap. This puts the def at just under 9%

Now for the sake of easy math, we are using even level minions. The SR would be hit 5% of the time for a total of 50 points of damage per second.

The Elec would be hit 41% of the time and resist 60% of that damage for a total of about 164 points per second. So the winner while rage is running is the defense based set.

Now with SS if both had to suffer the rage crash SR would be getting hit about 25% of the time for a total of about 250 damage per second. Ouch

But wait, Elec would be at -11% defense so would be getting hit 61% of the time and still only resisting 60%. He then would then be getting hit for about 244 points of damage per second. Pretty close.

This is all assuming normal IO slotting without sets since that is who the rules are made for.

It is apparent that Defense based sets actually suffer less than resistance based sets before a rage crash and only a little bit more after. It only seems like more because of the difference between 50 vs 250 and 164 vs 244.

Edit becaused I did an oops in my math.


 

Posted

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you can't bypass the rage crash or it's effects. if you stack it all that happens is you crash sooner. and for that matter the crash only lasts 10 secs. what rage is is a 2 min build up. it needs some cool down time(the 10 secs) for a reason. if you want to counter the -def then watch for when rage is crashing, it goes transparent, and eat some purple insps. thats what i do.

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You cannot bypass the -endurance or -damage but you can bypass the -def if you hit rage again.


 

Posted

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Once again the rumor mill is busy with tales of SuperStrength nerfs to come.

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... which is really a bad reason to worry about anything. Heck, various groups (not all religious) have been rumoring "the end times" for millenia with just as much solid information.

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However, the -def penalty has a disproportionately negative effect on sets which rely on defense for most of their mitigation. So what if the -def was made (at least partially) resistable? The same defense-heavy sets also tend to get def-debuff resistance - allowing the penalty to be moderated to more even levels.

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Personally, I don't tend to think it's all that big of a deal. Heck, I play *resist* sets - no real defense to begin with outside of CJ, typically - and I don't notice myself getting hit all that much more for the short time it's down.

Superstrength does, after all, have other tools to help mitigate damage during that time - you may not be doing *as much* damage, but depending on your level, you have knockup and knockdowns to keep things from trying to sample your internal organs. (By the time you get Rage, you're only missing Foot Stomp and Hurl, after all.)

But that is, of course, opinion and subjective. I'll let those that play with the numbers come in and do their thing. I'm not really against the idea, mind you - just bringing up some counterpoints.


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
Ok so lets say 2 toons are getting hit by the potential of 1000 points of damage per second from several different minions.

One is SR exactly at the soft cap of 45%
The other is Elec and they are being hit with the most common damage type S/L. The Elec resistance with tough is just about 60% fully slotted. We will also pretend that this elec took weave as well as combat jumping. Only fair as the SR would have probably made the same choices to hit the soft cap. This puts the def at just under 9%

Now for the sake of easy math, we are using even level minions. The SR would be hit 5% of the time for a total of 50 points of damage per second.

The Elec would be hit 41% of the time and resist 60% of that damage for a total of about 164 points per second. So the winner while rage is running is the defense based set.

Now with SS if both had to suffer the rage crash SR would be getting hit about 25% of the time for a total of about 250 damage per second. Ouch

But wait, Elec would be at -11% defense so would be getting hit 61% of the time and still only resisting 60%. He then would then be getting hit for about 244 points of damage per second. Pretty close.

This is all assuming normal IO slotting without sets since that is who the rules are made for.

It is apparent that Defense based sets actually suffer less than resistance based sets before a rage crash and only a little bit more after. It only seems like more because of the difference between 50 vs 250 and 164 vs 244.

Edit becaused I did an oops in my math.

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Interesting. I hadn't realized it could be so close; however, I would raise several counter-points:
<ul type="square"> [*]As the only non-Def-based set lacking HP/Regen/Heal, Elec is a very special case. [*]Many (most?) people playing Defense sets are not soft-capped.[*]Assuming soft-cap defense violates the spirit of your no-set IO assumption*, and that's with SR - the easiest Def set to soft-cap.[/list]
*Technically you can soft-cap SR with SO's, but doing so requires an impractical build.


 

Posted

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Personally, I don't tend to think it's all that big of a deal.

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Honestly it may not be, but given how sparingly the Devs have handed out def-debuff resistance, this solution looked to elegant (imho ) for me not to suggest it.


 

Posted

Previously I picked Elec vs SR because they are very similar but on opposite ends of the spectrum. Neither has +HP or a heal, both have +recharge.

Being practial and not counting potentail pool powers. Looking at 31% defense in SR. In previous example would be hit with on average of 190 per second.

Elec Resistance woudl be at about 42% and would be dealing with 290.

After rage crash SR would be kicked down to 11% so 39% or 390 points get through.

Elec drops to -20% so 70% of the attacks hit and are resisted for a total damage taken of about 406.

Still ends up being about the same using just AT powers and only IOs- non sets.

The hard part is comparing other sets because there are other mitigating factors to consider when you start throwing in +HP and +Regen and heals that are difficult to factor in. Things like slotting and global recharge get in the way of getting an accurate number for those things.