Fire/fire is a good Scrapper set like all Scrapper are. It is a lot of fun to play and one of my most favorite to play. A lot of people will say that it is too weak I don't buy that I never though of it as being that weak. It is not as strong as other Scrapper but it put out great damage.
For the guides I do remember one but I don't know how good it was, I looked at it a long time ago.
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Consume can refill my End (at level 20), making Stam perhaps not necessary
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I have found with playing that you will still want stam if you want to play fast. Consume can fill your end bar up but it has a long recharge(180s) and you can run out of end before it comes back if you dont' have stam.
"All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time"- Chesty Puller US Marine Corps
I have a level 50 Fire/Fire Scrapper and I had fun with her.
I took Tough and Weave and yeah, she still feels a bit squishy compared to say my Dark/Willpower Scrapper.
Great fun on teams though as the damage output is astounding. And if you have a Controller around that can lock mobs down, it gets even better.
All in all, it's a fun set and certainly soloable but more team friendly than alot of other Scrapper sets.
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I have between one and three of every other AT Red or Blue side, so I figure it's time to try out Scrappers.
I thought Fire/Fire might be good for the following reasons:
-Fire yields extra DoT
-Not only do I get BU, but I get Fiery Embrace
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Never turn down more damage 
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-Healing Flames has an unholy healing rate I remeber from my Fire/Fire brute.
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And it has quick recharge right out of the box too.
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-Consume can refill my End (at level 20), making Stam perhaps not necessary
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As someone else said, Consume has a long recharge time and you can use up all your End long before it comes back. You're better off with Stamina and Consume both.
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-Add a Web Grenade at level 41 and Burn can really be effective
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Instead of Weapon Mastery, I would suggest Dark Mastery. Tentacles + Burn is a beautiful thing. (You even get Petrifying Gaze at 41 for the nitpickers.)
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-I like magic/glowy looking powers with lots of visually dramatic oomph
I would probably get SuperSpeed/Hasten. Will certainly drop a Stealth IO in Superpeed. Will find a place to drop a KB io or two in. Not sure I need any other Pool Powers, though some could be interesting. Maybe Combat Jumping might add some good maneuverability.
[/ QUOTE ]
I know it comes as a shock to most people (and practically blasphemy to suggest in the scrapper forum) but I think Hasten is overrated. Also, I don't know if you meant +KB (wildly overrated for scrappers) or -KB, but you'd do well to pick up the Steadfast Protection: Knockback Protection IO and the Karma: Knockback Protection IO for that big hole in your defenses.
[ QUOTE ]
So two questions: is Fire/Fire a good scrapper set? Comparatively?
And two, where can I find some Fire/Fire guides? All I found was a Fire/SR guide.
Thanks.
[/ QUOTE ]
As someone else said, I found Fire/Fire to be an extremely fun time (who doesn't like the pure fun of burning stuff up?) and my fastest 50 so far because I ended up playing her all the time.
As to damage, I was once in FF and heard the call go out for help with the Kronos Class Titan and zipped over to lend a hand. After standing there yelling "Invite me!" many times and being ignored, I just waded right in against him without a team and was surprised to find I earned the badge (need +10% of his health in damage for that) even without a team. I was pretty stoked about that.
Fire/fire sucks! It kills the mobs way too fast. You can get a real fast recharging healing power. Who wants to keep seeing green all the time? And what's the point of having two build up powers? And why? Why in the world would you want a 2ndary with damage powers in it? That's what the primary is for!.... I can't keep this up. I'm laughing too hard. Fire/fire rocks.
"All problems can be solved by throwing enough scrappers at it."
@Riez on Virtue, Protector, Champion, and Exalted server.
A few other notes about how I play this game, to help you guys better advise me:
I like to be able to solo with strength, because sometimes I can't find a team. However, I do love to team when I find one - and I love really making an obvious difference for the team. However, like I said, I do tend to use builds that can solo at least as good if not better, because sometimes you have no choice.
I play for the journey, not the destination. This means that as soon as my character hits level 50, I permanently bench him.
I only PvE, never PvP. Mostly, I like stomping on baddies.
I have liked and played over a dozen blasters and corruptors. I have a /sr stalker that can't be hit (softcapped). My Bot/FF MM was cool. I also made and enjoyed a Fire/Kin controller, before I decided that neither passive farming (being levelled while doing nothing) not *running* a farm were not for me. (I don't mind *active* farming - getting together with folks and running the same mish for a while, as long as the action is fast and furious, the glory high, and the risk low. (Not a risk junkie here - I play to stomp on *them*, not to ride the edge of them stomping on *me*.)
So, what's this you guys are saying about the FIre/Fire Scrapper being too squishy? I thought (and had hoped) that with Healing Flames I would be ok. After all, I can Heal for 50% of my Health every 14 seconds - won't that be enough? And in addition, I get around 35% Smash/Leth/NRG/Neg Res, 71% FIre, 12% Cold, and 15% Toxic. No Psi, but that's not that unusual.
All in all, at level 50, I will have 1339 HP. That means healing 669/14 sec, or about 48/sec. If someone hits me with say S/L, that means I can take about a 74 damage hit **every second**, which will get cut to 48, which will amount to 669 over 14 seconds, after which I heal 669 and am back up to full.
Does damage really come in much faster than that? And can other sets handle it that much better? I mean, /SR and other /def sets, sure - becuase you can actually get down to the cap of 5% chance to be hit - I know that, my stalker did. But apart from /def /SR, what's better than healing half your total HP every 14 sec?
For Great Justice!
In the time I took to write my last reply, two more came in - the verdict appears to be that Fire/Fire may be *both* as fun *and* as effective as I hope...
Woot!
For Great Justice!
In my experience with a BS/Fire Scrapper, I can say that Consume coupled with your armors will make you pretty close to invincible when you're soloing. On teams, though, you might want to watch out to not draw too much aggro. Just hang out with the Tank and be his buddy.
Damage-wise, I've seen enough Fire/Fire Scrappers to be very impressed. What the set lacks in mitigation it makes up for by killing things really freaking fast. My Broadsword Scrapper is not slouch when it comes to hauling off and demolishing enemies, but he ended up playing second fiddle to my friend's Fire/Fire scrapper.
Too many alts to list.
Excellent. So let's talk power selection and progression choices.
My thought is that it is really nice to have plenty of Endurance, especially with Hasten and fast recharging attacks using up the endo even more quickly - so why not get *both* Stamina *and* Consume? Also, comparing Web Grenade against Tenebrous Tentacles - I prefer Web Grenade I think - you get it 6 levels earlier, it's a 50 foot circle around a target instead of a 40 foot 30 degree cone, the recharge is 8s instead of 20, it casts faster and for less End - the only thing in favor of TT is the fact that TT does damage. But I think my Burn Patch alone will do enough damage, and that's 6 levels earlier.
I might want to find out if I can get a +perception IO to put in BU to help deal with any annoying Arachnos. Perhaps one or two -KB Steadfast IOs. Probably a Celerity +Stealth IO for Super Speed.
I worry about not taking Fire Sword - I figure Scorch is much faster to make the early levels more bearable - And I will have Cremate by level 2, BuildUp by 8, and FireBreath by 10. Will also have Healing at 4, which should help.
Also keep in mind that since I have been playing this game since Beta, I have a lot of Vet badges, so I will be able to also use the Nemmy Staff and Sand of Mu to fill in until my bigger attacks come in to fill out the chain.
So here it is. Would love to have my travel power, hasten, my attacks, Stamina, COnsume, AND my shields all by 20, but that's impossible, so I prioritized damage and endurance for the first 20 levels, and try to limp without some of my shields until the mid 20s. Good decision? Bad idea? I can't live without ENd or attacks, so I don't knwo what else to do.
One other note: with all the Vet Respecs I will have access to, there's no reason not to build the character one way for easy levelling in the earlier levels, and flip it around with a respec later, if that makes sense. Does it here?
Also, please keep in mind a) I retire all characters once they hit 50, and b) I only PvE.
Here is what I have so far, what do you guys think?
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/
[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]
Level 48 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Fiery Melee
Secondary Power Set: Fiery Aura
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fitness
Ancillary Pool: Weapon Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Scorch -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Fire Shield -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Cremate -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Healing Flames -- Empty(A)
Level 6: Hasten -- Empty(A)
Level 8: Build Up -- Empty(A)
Level 10: Breath of Fire -- Empty(A)
Level 12: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 14: Super Speed -- Empty(A)
Level 16: Health -- Empty(A)
Level 18: Fire Sword Circle -- Empty(A)
Level 20: Stamina -- Empty(A)
Level 22: Plasma Shield -- Empty(A)
Level 24: Temperature Protection -- Empty(A)
Level 26: Incinerate -- Empty(A)
Level 28: Consume -- Empty(A)
Level 30: Burn -- Empty(A)
Level 32: Greater Fire Sword -- Empty(A)
Level 35: Fiery Embrace -- Empty(A)
Level 38: Blazing Aura -- Empty(A)
Level 41: Web Grenade -- Empty(A)
Level 44: Targeting Drone -- Empty(A)
Level 47: Exploding Shuriken -- Empty(A)
Level 49: Rise of the Phoenix -- Empty(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
For Great Justice!
The reason I went Darkness mastery on my /fire scrap is because TT is aoe and webnade can only hit one.
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The reason I went Darkness mastery on my /fire scrap is because TT is aoe and webnade can only hit one.
[/ QUOTE ]
Damn, though webnade was a Targeted AoE. Maybe I will get TT, but it sucks that I would only get the benefit of it for 2 or 3 levels before I quit the character.
Maybe Caltrops could be my ghetto hold - keep peeps in Burn longer anyways?
NOTE: Especially focused on if I got the progression right from 1 to 40, 
Did I?
For Great Justice!
Be warned. Baddies will run from Caltrops, and get away within about 5 seconds. You get more from Tenebrous Tentacles or Web Grenade.
As far as powers you might not want, I'd avoid Fire Breath. I've heard complaints about Incinerate, but I like it.
Too many alts to list.
Is it the same Fire Breath that all my Blasters have? Would Fire Sword actually be a better pick than Fire Breath?
For Great Justice!
[ QUOTE ]
Is it the same Fire Breath that all my Blasters have? Would Fire Sword actually be a better pick than Fire Breath?
[/ QUOTE ]
Nope it is a different power. I don't like it at all! I would take Fire Sword over it.
Breath of fire
Fire Breath
"All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time"- Chesty Puller US Marine Corps
Breath of Fire (not Fire Breath) does imperceptibly more damage than Fire Sword, with double the animation time (1.33s vs. 1.67s). As long as you get 2 enemies in the cone, it's pretty much the same dps, but Breath of Fire comes with a 1.2x inherent accuracy bonus, only costs 50% more endurance than Fire Sword, and has an impressive range for a melee cone, with a 15 feet long, 30 degree arc.
The real question is whether you are a melee-cone fiend or not. It can hit up to 10 targets, and if you can bunch up the enemies effectively it is very easy to get more than two of them in the cone. At 3 enemies hit, it is noticeably more efficient than any ST attack in your arsenal, and only goes up from there. FSC is one hell of an AoE, but having another one to fire with it can be the difference between severely wounding the whole spawn and twoshotting most everything in it. If you don't have a knack for lining up the perfect cone in a split second, and/or you don't like the concept, then stick with your ST chain.
Also, while it'd be mostly irrelevant for your 'retire at 50' playstyle, I'm very tempted to throw some Centrioles in it once my fire/regen hits 47 and turn it into a seriously large cone.
Rule number six of an empathy defender is NEVER underestimate a blaster's ability to die. I don't care if he has CM, Fort, both RAs, bubbles (both FF and Sonic), and is fighting next to a Storm defender with hurricane on. If there is a way to die in that situation, the blaster will find it.
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Also, comparing Web Grenade against Tenebrous Tentacles - I prefer Web Grenade I think - you get it 6 levels earlier, it's a 50 foot circle around a target instead of a 40 foot 30 degree cone, the recharge is 8s instead of 20, it casts faster and for less End - the only thing in favor of TT is the fact that TT does damage.
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No, Web Grenade is a single-target immobilize. It has a range of 50 feet, meaning you can hit a target 50 feet away, but the immob only affects that one target.
Edit: Bah, corrected already in a previous post.
OK, taken some suggestions and made some changes. How about the following for a pre 20 build, Vet respec at 20 to grab Stamina and then on to 50 using the second build?
Pre 20:
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/
[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]
Level 17 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Fiery Melee
Secondary Power Set: Fiery Aura
Power Pool: Speed
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Scorch -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Fire Shield -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Cremate -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Healing Flames -- Empty(A)
Level 6: Build Up -- Empty(A)
Level 8: Fire Sword -- Empty(A)
Level 10: Blazing Aura -- Empty(A)
Level 12: Hasten -- Empty(A)
Level 14: Super Speed -- Empty(A)
Level 16: Plasma Shield -- Empty(A)
Level 18: Fire Sword Circle -- Empty(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
Vet Respec after 20, all the way to 50:
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/
[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]
Level 48 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Fiery Melee
Secondary Power Set: Fiery Aura
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fitness
Ancillary Pool: Darkness Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Scorch -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Fire Shield -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Cremate -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Healing Flames -- Empty(A)
Level 6: Hasten -- Empty(A)
Level 8: Build Up -- Empty(A)
Level 10: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 12: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 14: Super Speed -- Empty(A)
Level 16: Plasma Shield -- Empty(A)
Level 18: Fire Sword Circle -- Empty(A)
Level 20: Stamina -- Empty(A)
Level 22: Consume -- Empty(A)
Level 24: Temperature Protection -- Empty(A)
Level 26: Incinerate -- Empty(A)
Level 28: Burn -- Empty(A)
Level 30: Blazing Aura -- Empty(A)
Level 32: Greater Fire Sword -- Empty(A)
Level 35: Fiery Embrace -- Empty(A)
Level 38: Fire Sword -- Empty(A)
Level 41: Petrifying Gaze -- Empty(A)
Level 44: Dark Blast -- Empty(A)
Level 47: Tenebrous Tentacles -- Empty(A)
Level 49: Rise of the Phoenix -- Empty(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
How does this sound? Does it rock the casbah?
For Great Justice!
That dog'll hunt.
Question for you though. You NEVER play a character that is at level 50? I mean, I understand the journey being more important than the destination, I play much the same way myself, but I do still play my 50s. (I currently have 4) There are some things in the game I wouldn't even think about doing on a character lower than 50 (Hami raid, Invincible Kill-All ITF, RWZ Challenge, AV soloing, MoSTF, etc.)
Not tryin to give you crap for it or anything, it just kind of seems like a waste to spend all that time playing a character only to never play it again.
EDIT: just noticed something, drop Swift and take Hurdle and Health instead. Health is very nice for any scrapper, it increases your regen rate enough that you shouldn't have to rely on your heal so much. Other than that it looks fine.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
HERE is a link to my Fire/Fire scrapper guide. not sure why it is STILL not listed in the guides section.... anyways, i hope it helps.
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Breath of Fire (not Fire Breath) does imperceptibly more damage than Fire Sword, with double the animation time (1.33s vs. 1.67s). As long as you get 2 enemies in the cone, it's pretty much the same dps, but Breath of Fire comes with a 1.2x inherent accuracy bonus, only costs 50% more endurance than Fire Sword, and has an impressive range for a melee cone, with a 15 feet long, 30 degree arc.
The real question is whether you are a melee-cone fiend or not. It can hit up to 10 targets, and if you can bunch up the enemies effectively it is very easy to get more than two of them in the cone. At 3 enemies hit, it is noticeably more efficient than any ST attack in your arsenal, and only goes up from there. FSC is one hell of an AoE, but having another one to fire with it can be the difference between severely wounding the whole spawn and twoshotting most everything in it. If you don't have a knack for lining up the perfect cone in a split second, and/or you don't like the concept, then stick with your ST chain.
Also, while it'd be mostly irrelevant for your 'retire at 50' playstyle, I'm very tempted to throw some Centrioles in it once my fire/regen hits 47 and turn it into a seriously large cone.
[/ QUOTE ]
I like this power too. Five slot it with positron blast and turn it loose. BU, FE, FSC, then BoF and mobs are dropping. Altough I'd much rather an arc cone, I still like this power. It comes donwn to your playstyle. If you don't like to slow down at all, skip it.
"All problems can be solved by throwing enough scrappers at it."
@Riez on Virtue, Protector, Champion, and Exalted server.
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BU, FE, FSC, then BoF and mobs are dropping
[/ QUOTE ]
See I don't see the need for BoF if you use BU, FE before you use FSC. FSC should kill all the minions easy with BU and FE and if some are still a live you have the DoT and BA to kill them. So after I do the BU, FE FSC I use my sinlge taget attacks for the Bosses and Lts. I don't really ever attack the minions in a group with my fire/fire. So I don't see the need for BoF.
"All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time"- Chesty Puller US Marine Corps
I vote no to breath and yes to sword, EASILY. It is nothing like your ranged fire breath, which is actually quite excellent.
My new Youtube Channel with CoH info
You might know me as FlintEastwood now on Freedom
We have to choose one? That's like picking shadow maul over smite (not really). To me BoF is the shadow maul of fire. Line them up and turn it loose. Now if I had to pick one or the other then yes, sword over BoF. True, FSC will be enough in cases you have mobs all around you. But for those times mobs are in front of you, BoF let's you reach out and burn someone. Until we get fire mastery and if it has fire ball. Then its gone!
"All problems can be solved by throwing enough scrappers at it."
@Riez on Virtue, Protector, Champion, and Exalted server.
[ QUOTE ]
That dog'll hunt.
Question for you though. You NEVER play a character that is at level 50? I mean, I understand the journey being more important than the destination, I play much the same way myself, but I do still play my 50s. (I currently have 4) There are some things in the game I wouldn't even think about doing on a character lower than 50 (Hami raid, Invincible Kill-All ITF, RWZ Challenge, AV soloing, MoSTF, etc.)
Not tryin to give you crap for it or anything, it just kind of seems like a waste to spend all that time playing a character only to never play it again.
EDIT: just noticed something, drop Swift and take Hurdle and Health instead. Health is very nice for any scrapper, it increases your regen rate enough that you shouldn't have to rely on your heal so much. Other than that it looks fine.
[/ QUOTE ]
I had a big reply typed, and the forums ate it. the short reply is nothing is fun after 50 - it is either stuff that's irrelevant to me like badges or costume parts, or its too little reward for too much effort, like IOs and stuff.
I used to do the Hamidon before they nerfed HOs. If there was a way to double my damage after a months worth of work, especially is the doubling was given little by little, I would do that. But the rewards are mush more underwhelming, like 10% more effectiveness after spending a year collecting merits.
Maybe if we got merits 4-10 times faster. But as it stands, the only thing that doesn't feel grindy to me (even if it is) in CoX is the 1 to 50 journey, because one is gaining rewards in powers and slots fast enough to really feel like you are constantly being well rewarded.
After 50 not so much.
EDIT: And OK on dropping Swift for Health - didn't know Health would add that much to someone with Healing Flames - but I believe you.
For Great Justice!
I have to agree for the most part.
My new Youtube Channel with CoH info
You might know me as FlintEastwood now on Freedom
I have between one and three of every other AT Red or Blue side, so I figure it's time to try out Scrappers.
I thought Fire/Fire might be good for the following reasons:
-Fire yields extra DoT
-Not only do I get BU, but I get Fiery Embrace
-Healing Flames has an unholy healing rate I remeber from my Fire/Fire brute.
-Consume can refill my End (at level 20), making Stam perhaps not necessary
-Add a Web Grenade at level 41 and Burn can really be effective
-I like magic/glowy looking powers with lots of visually dramatic oomph
I would probably get SuperSpeed/Hasten. Will certainly drop a Stealth IO in Superpeed. Will find a place to drop a KB io or two in. Not sure I need any other Pool Powers, though some could be interesting. Maybe Combat Jumping might add some good maneuverability.
So two questions: is Fire/Fire a good scrapper set? Comparatively?
And two, where can I find some Fire/Fire guides? All I found was a Fire/SR guide.
Thanks.
For Great Justice!