My Current Debate: Storm Summoning
By
Adelie,
Posted on: 2009-06-15 08:48 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
Storm/Sonic Defender. It's a lot of fun.
Here is a concept build I've been working on for a while.
Has soft capped Ranged and AoE defense, 23% Melee, 25% Smash/Lethal, and near soft capped En/Neg/Fire/Cold. The resist are really good too.
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edit: I haven't actually played that build, I'm not sure if it would be very playable. But I made it to show the insane numbers you can get with Storm.
I think it's not so much the holds you want as the immobilizes, which most controller primaries other than Mind seem to have in abundance. Also, if you go defender or corruptor, Dark has that cone of immob. The thing is, the duration and recharge on mass holds is pretty harsh, so you need the immob to fill in between holds if you're going to use a lot of knockback powers.
I went the other way entirely with my four stormies, either pairing it with a powerset that had more knockback yet, or with mastermind pets, who don't complain. I love knockback and loathe immobilization powers, though.
However, I can still team. Storm's got pretty good control powers, so when I'm trying to minimize chaos, I use Freezing Rain and Thunder Clap. In fact, if you slot Thunder Clap up, you can learn to use it as the rain is wearing off, and it will keep any remaining minions stunned until it's time to rain on them again. This is on top of whatever your other powerset is doing. In the case of the storm/energy defender, I do that, then keep things off the squishies. If the tank loses control, then I'll drop tornado, freely toss stuff around with Hurricane and Lightning Storm, etc, until the team can recover. Stormie = safety net, if you play it that way.
Virtue
Angel Witch II - Chord of Souls - Storm Witch II - Princess of the Dawn - Standing Horse - Witch of Xymox
Silent Scream - Shadow Witch II - Liquid Serenade - Nebulous Dawn - Ghost Witch II -Xiberia
Angel Witch II - Chord of Souls - Storm Witch II - Princess of the Dawn - Standing Horse - Witch of Xymox
Silent Scream - Shadow Witch II - Liquid Serenade - Nebulous Dawn - Ghost Witch II -Xiberia
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I think it's not so much the holds you want as the immobilizes, which most controller primaries other than Mind seem to have in abundance. Also, if you go defender or corruptor, Dark has that cone of immob. The thing is, the duration and recharge on mass holds is pretty harsh, so you need the immob to fill in between holds if you're going to use a lot of knockback powers.
I went the other way entirely with my four stormies, either pairing it with a powerset that had more knockback yet, or with mastermind pets, who don't complain. I love knockback and loathe immobilization powers, though.
However, I can still team. Storm's got pretty good control powers, so when I'm trying to minimize chaos, I use Freezing Rain and Thunder Clap. In fact, if you slot Thunder Clap up, you can learn to use it as the rain is wearing off, and it will keep any remaining minions stunned until it's time to rain on them again. This is on top of whatever your other powerset is doing. In the case of the storm/energy defender, I do that, then keep things off the squishies. If the tank loses control, then I'll drop tornado, freely toss stuff around with Hurricane and Lightning Storm, etc, until the team can recover. Stormie = safety net, if you play it that way.
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Eek, I meant Immobilizes, not holds. Sorry about the confusion. I'd pretty much just need the AoE Immob if I go the controller route.
I like the idea of the safety net Stormie, but I think that's also what may have me leaning towards Controller, I'd like to be able to drop Tornado and Lightning Storm whenever I'd like, not just when things go south or I have a nifty corner nearby.
I'd actually go with a ice/storm controller. There are lots of powers in the ice/ primary that go thematically really well with /storm. This would play very much like a 100% storm superhero. Arctic Air is a very good power and fits with a storm themed toon. In addition, you could put in some damage procs and turn it into a damage power. You would also get a decent pet. The only downside to going with a storm troller over a storm defender is that you have to wait longer to get all your stomie goodness powers. But, IMO, I like how /storm controllers work much better than storm/ defenders.
There have been many discussions about the defender primaries and how well they compare to the same set as a secondary for a controller. I do not think there is much of a noticeable difference for most sets. ( Please note I actually think there should be more of a difference. )
If you want a "storm" hero, go ice/storm controller. The power sets fit together thematically. I have been considering this same set of powers myself. Other obvious thematic possibilities:
earth/storm/fire APP for an elementalist or storm/electric blast defender. If you can make the theme work for you, fire control/kinetics is supposed to be great.
Good luck. Storm is the prettiest powerset in the game. You will like it no matter which direction you go.
Edited for grammar.
I've run a storm/sonic/power up to 50 and heavily IO'd it. And I've run a fire/storm/psy up to 50 and heavily IO'd it.
the troller is significantly stronger in st damage and aoe damage, has higher personal safety, and brings more safety to a team.
However, the storm/sonic makes teams just vaporize spawns with FR+howl and on teams AV's melt faster too.
The storm/sonic leveled easier (pre 32) with earlier storm powers and sonic is light on endurance.
The fire/storm stalled in the late 20's for months because it was such an end pig, but once pushed through and IO'd has become a monster toon.
I much prefer the fire/storm to leverage storm *now*. I usually two nados whipping around behind me most of the time so the aoe -kb is golden.
Pre Lightning storm nerf I prefered the storm/sonic for maximizing storm because heaps of -res plus a rapid fire LS was awesome. Since that is lame now the best thing is FR+howl, which a cold/sonic can do as well and be better than storm imo.
Masterminds have storm too...
My new Youtube Channel with CoH info
You might know me as FlintEastwood now on Freedom
So do corrs...
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I think it's not so much the holds you want as the immobilizes, which most controller primaries other than Mind seem to have in abundance. Also, if you go defender or corruptor, Dark has that cone of immob. The thing is, the duration and recharge on mass holds is pretty harsh, so you need the immob to fill in between holds if you're going to use a lot of knockback powers.
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Illusion doesn't have immobilizes, and the immobs in gravity don't prevent knockback. While that allows freezing rain to continue to knock opponents down while they remain immobilzed, the only way gravity has to mitigate knockback is through its holds, which are no more abundant than any other controller's.
For the purposes of giving opponents knockback protection, the choices are earth, ice, and fire.
and plants.
Plant/storm is a very powerful controller with a large amount of personal safety. You can neuter most spawns, lock them in place, then release the tornado. The immob also does a lot more damage than other controller immobs, it is a good marriage.
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and plants.
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You kids and your new fangled toys.
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uncontrollable KB
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Myth: Storm has uncontrollable KB.
Fact: Most stormies don't know how to control their KB.
Ice Blast provides a couple of de-KB powers if you're into that. Freeze Ray and Bitter Freeze Ray grant immunity to knocks. But really, those kinds of powers are optional. A well played Storm/Dark defender (or Dark/Storm corruptor or Grav/Storm controller) will keep enemies well controlled, with knockback usually resulting in better positioning, not worse. When everything's immobilized, anything that gets knocked the wrong way can be easily repelled or knocked back into place. Remember, Tornado is aimable, and when enemies are immobilized, its behavior is more predictable.
Defender storm buffs and debuffs aren't a whole lot different between ATs. Controllers get a slightly better Thunder Clap. Corruptors and masterminds get kind of crappy slows from Snow Storm. All the other ATs get slightly weaker healing and demez magnitude from O2 Boost, slightly weaker damage and end hose from Lightning Storm, slightly weaker debuffs from Hurricane and Freezing Rain, slightly weaker buffs from Steamy Mist.
True enough, but it is a lot easier to have two nados following my fire/storm troller around than it is for my storm/sonic def 
.
imo the good thing about the troller sets that do aoe -kb is that they have tools to make it so the popcorn of freezing rain is unnecessary. Though crushing field or teny tenticles +FR is pretty nice. I enjoy the latter on my cold/dark def (well sleet, but same thing).
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imo the good thing about the troller sets that do aoe -kb is that they have tools to make it so the popcorn of freezing rain is unnecessary.
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What?? Why would freezing rain be unnecessary? Knockdown is mitigation in that foes don't shoot while getting up, they do shoot while immobilized. Surely the -defense/-resistance is useful in freezing rain.
Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.
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imo the good thing about the troller sets that do aoe -kb is that they have tools to make it so the popcorn of freezing rain is unnecessary.
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What?? Why would freezing rain be unnecessary? Knockdown is mitigation in that foes don't shoot while getting up, they do shoot while immobilized. Surely the -defense/-resistance is useful in freezing rain.
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Freezing rain is awesome. I just said they have tools to make the popcorn, or chain kd effect unnecessary.
ie plant can fire seeds at which point is actually better they aren't flopping around.
earth, heh good ole earth it has tons of tricks. Of course stalags is up often, volc gases seems to work very well with freezing rain and even earthquake works in a pinch due to the -tohit debuff.
fire is more limited, but flashfire is good. Most spawns die well before freezing rain expires anyway.
Ice toss out shiver and then stand in there with arc air going and no one fires back.
I love my aoe -kb on my fire/storm because I love having tornado out all the time. My fire/storm does my st and aoe damage than my storm/sonic. Both are heavily IO'd.
I am still scratching my head. Do you immobilize foes on an ice slick? Do you immobilize goes in an earthquake? Is seeds of confusion any more or less productive if the targets are flopping helplessly on a surface?
Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.
personally i think Earth/Storm is where its at, my troller Mud Slide is a beast, def debuffs, res debuffs, sapping, -jump/fly, -range/tohit, oh add in animate stone with his seismic smash, and then my seismic smash, you get the idea.
If you're going for heavy Storm theme, Storm/Elec Def is where it's at. Nothing feels more almighty stormy thunder god. Problem with that is that Elec isn't a great performer in the damage department.
If you're going for a "weather" theme, Ice/Storm Troller. Plenty of toys, some nice overlapping effects, and theme in spades.
Plant/Storm is a wild beast that rends faces.
Storm/Sonic melts things.
Storm/Dark traps things, then debuffs the crap out of them, then eats their souls.
Earth/Storm has so many location AoEs and controls that you'll actually go looking for multi-spawn locations just to be able to use them all.
AR/Storm is a sexy sexy AoE death machine. Cones + positioning= maximum bloodshed
Ninja/Storm let's you see exactly why Tsoo Sorcs are so universally reviled. And then you may laugh. Maniacally.
Ill/Storm is maximum chaos with minimum risk. Embrace the chaos and it will allow you to control the whole battlefield.
(Yes, I have played/am playing all of these)
On the subject of knockback: don't feel pigeon-holed into a /Storm troller just because people are foolish about KB. You don't have to be one of them, and all it takes is a little thought and practice to use KB to your team's advantage. Anyone who complains about intelligently used KB is short-sighted and lazy.
tl;dr Go for theme. Learn to use KB. Profit. 
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I am still scratching my head. Do you immobilize foes on an ice slick? Do you immobilize goes in an earthquake? Is seeds of confusion any more or less productive if the targets are flopping helplessly on a surface?
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No to iceslick>shiver and arc air are better if you apply frostbite w/ FR
Sometimes yes to earthquake > if stalag or volc gas is down. It has a sizeable -tohit.
Yes seeds is much less effective if they are flopping. the same principle that prevents them from damaging you prevents them from damaging each other, which is a large part of why you use seeds.
I really like having 2 nados follow me around, since the LS nerf it is imo the second best power in the set. IME only the sets with an aoe -kb can let me play that way effectively.
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Also, if you go defender or corruptor, Dark has that cone of immob. The thing is, the duration and recharge on mass holds is pretty harsh, so you need the immob to fill in between holds if you're going to use a lot of knockback powers.
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Well, the problem with that is that Tenebrous Tentacles (the Dark Blast immobilize effect) does not actually prevent knockback. Of course, this is generally a good thing, because it keeps the knockdown from Freezing Rain fully effective. (And just to be clear, Storm/Dark is a pretty nifty powerset combination if played right.)
Make a storm defender and take TP as travel power. It's great for bouncing around the perimeter of your kill zone, 'caning stuff back into the center.
Pinnacle
Glowworm * Brrr * Lilinoe
Protector
Kid Trance * Ms. Impala * Red Helen
Virtue
Pooka Pete
I've always found the immob's more helpful by maintaining a good angle with Hurricane rather than just negating the kb. I find it easier to sweep up groups that aren't free to run around. A little knockback never seemed detrimental as long as enemies weren't scattering around on their own so grav's and dark's immobs have always been fine with me.
Ninja/Storm mastermind is turning out to be a ton of fun. The only mastermind I haven't gotten bored with. I'm in the mid 40s on it and still loving it.
I have a character concept for a Storm Summoner. I'm trying to decide which AT and my tires have been spinning for a while now.
My first inclination was a Defender. The core of this character is the Storm powers, so it makes sense that Storm should be the primary. However, the uncontrollable KB sounds like it could be bothersome. While I am aware that it can be leveraged for excellent mitigation, it can also be a headache for teaming, as it was on my on Energy/Energy blaster sometimes.
So, to negate the KB debate, I thought I'd roll a controller. Either Ice/Storm or Plant/Storm. I'd be doing this purely to get the holds and would be focusing primarily on Storm.
I'm curious however, how much does Storm Summoning lose as a Controller secondary compared to a Defender primary? Also, this character will pretty much be dedicated to teaming. Controllers are insanely popular so it stands to reason I'll rarely be without someone else doing all the holding I need.
And finally, if I decide I don't really need the Control for the -KB and I don't mind Storm being a secondary, then there's always the Corrupter route for more damage.
tl;dr version, What AT should I roll for a Storm Summoner?
Edit: I meant to say "Immobilize" instead of Holds when referring to the controller powers.