Alt Advice, Hero VS Villain?
By
Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2009-06-13 21:56 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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Controllers appear to have the short end of the stick when it comes to power sets. They can use their crowd control, then they don't have anything else to do, usually. Buffing isn't a full-time job. Healing won't be needed if they have everything crowd-controlled and the tanker has aggro correctly. Dominators are the clear winners here because they do damage after CCing.
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thanks for that, i needed a good laugh.
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Blasters have pretty good damage, but their secondaries seem weak. They don't buff or heal and the secondaries don't add any significant damage. Corrupters do almost the same damage, while having the ability to heal and buff when not focusing on damage. One might argue that blasters are only focused on one thing, however with more damage power sets on Villain side (Dom vs Controller), a corrputer can slack off and things will still die fast.
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This is funny. Seriously, I can tell you that playing my corruptor after playing any of my blasters feels very anemic on damage.
And saying that Blaster secondaries don't do much damage -seriously, you need to check out the numbers before making that kind of statement.
Altoholic - but a Blaster at Heart!
Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon
"You gave us a world where we could fly. I can't thank you enough for that."
blasters secondary weak? i guess they must of removed EM from the game. seriously blasters completely destroy in dps compared to a corruptor pending the corruptor isnt an aoe fire/kin with capped damage.
scrappers, i got a katana/wp scrapper that is always the last toon standing on a team, the tank dies and then the scrapper proceeds to kill the rest of the mob that killed the team and then after that, instead of waiting for the team to goto hospital, its status quo to say might as well stay dead i got this. for example my spine/regen can crush mishes solo on maps spawned for groups of 8 on invincible.
also in pvp scrappers tend to have higher burst than most brutes because of the crits, and in pvp its all about burst. stalkers thus arent preferred for their stealth but for their burst capability.
I'm not seeing what EM has to offer for Blasters. Many power sets have a build-up. Endurance shouldn't be an issue for most characters. Primary power sets offer plenty of attacks, so the few from EM shouldn't be needed. I just don't see the advantage it has, especially over a kinetics corrupter.
Willpower is a great secondary for scrappers or brutes. I think I would prefer to have it on a brute, though, because of fury damage bonus. If I'm not getting hit, it might be hard to get the fury going, but I know a /WP character can take a beating with the high regen and the right defense set bonuses.
My corrupter is AR/kinetics because I didn't want to be a fire primary like most are. Flamethrower and burn patches do plenty of DoT while I'm buffing or doing something else. The burn patch does enough damage by itself to kill lieutenants with fulcrum shift up.
Make one of each AT that you haven't played.
Play each to level 5.
By that time you can figure out which one is more fun for you to play.
Blaster secondaries aren't weak at all. They provide a little utility, Build Up (except Devices), and a ton of damage. The Blaster melee attacks are insanely powerful... dangerous to use, but extremely effective if you know what you're doing. Blasters are the highest damage AT in the game, period. But that's all they do. Well, some sets have a little control, but it's pretty much all about the damage.
Defenders can be significantly better at buffing than Corruptors, or it can be barely noticeable. It depends on the set. Overall I do like Corruptors better because they hit harder and solo better, but for pure team support a Defender will always come out on top.
Some Controllers are a lot like you described... they can lock everything down but take a while to do good damage. Others can deliver very impressive damage... especially Fire/Kin Controllers. With enough recharge to double stack Fulcrum Shift a Fire/Kin is dealing double capped damage... enough to outdamage a Fire/Psi permadom or SS/Fire Brute. (Fire/Kins are the exception to Blasters having the best damage... they can hit for over 700 damage with Fire Ball at level 50, plus around 40 DPS from Hot Feet and their Fire Imps which also do double capped damage.) Also, Illusion/Rad Controllers with enough recharge can solo anything in the game that isn't timed. They may not roll over mobs as fast as a Brute, but being able to solo pretty much any AV or Giant Monster in the game can be fun. (One guy soloed Lusca, though it took several hours. 
) Remember that Controllers deal double damage against held, stunned, slept, or immobilized enemies... and they get fast recharging AoE immobilizes at low levels. That means that for all practical purposes after the first couple of seconds Controllers always Scourge (except for some AoEs that only get Containment bonuses 75% of the time). Offensively-built Controllers hit harder than most Doms (Live version, not the boosted ones on Test) or Corruptors.
Scrappers and Brutes are very similar in damage output. Brutes are a bit tougher and tank better, but Scrappers tend to kill bosses faster (depending on power set) due to higher burst damage. Also, Scrappers get Spines, which is a great AoE set... I'm pretty sure a Spines Scrapper has better AoEs than even a high recharge SS Brute.
You're pretty much dead on with Tankers. They're incredibly tough, but they don't hit very hard. The exception being Fire/Fire Tankers... those play more like AoE Scrappers since the Tanker version of Fire Melee has more AoEs than the Brute version.
If you like Kinetics Corruptors, you may like Blasters. You don't get the team buffs but you do get better blasts... Fireball with Aim and Build up on a Blaster hits harder than Fireball at the damage cap on a Corruptor. Plus Blasters get Archery, which Corruptors sadly lack... it's an extremely fun set.
I would suggest avoiding a Stone Tanker. Stone Armor is a royal pain in Granite without a fortune in IOs to offset the speed and recharge penalties, and if you're new to blueside you don't have a fortune to spend on IOs. Stone without Granite isn't bad, but if you're not going to run granite full time why not go Willpower or Shield or something and pop your tier 9 in cases you would have used Granite? A fun Tanker combo is Shield/Fire... you get good damage, a damage boost in your primary, and Tankers can soft-cap Shields a lot more cheaply than Brutes. Shield gives higher defense to tanks than other ATs, so it's really nice on them. Though if you want to really annoy Romans in the ITF, make an Invulnerability Tanker and sit there and laugh as they stab you for Brawl level damage. 
Cascade, level 50 Blaster (NRG/NRG since before it was cool)
Mechmeister, level 50 Bots / Traps MM
FAR too many non-50 alts to name
[u]Arcs[u]
The Scavenger Hunt: 187076
The Instant Lair Delivery Service: 206636
if you try to play blueside after playing villain content, prepare to be bored to tears.
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Blasters have pretty good damage, but their secondaries seem weak. They don't buff or heal and the secondaries don't add any significant damage. Corruptors do almost the same damage, while having the ability to heal and buff when not focusing on damage. One might argue that blasters are only focused on one thing, however with more damage power sets on Villain side (Dom vs Controller), a corruptor can slack off and things will still die fast.
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Gotta say, this bit raised a few question marks.
Properly played and in the right circumstances, an AoE-centric Blaster can erase spawns so fast that the rest of the 8-man team (aside from maybe the Tanker) will complain that they don't have anything to do. Nothing I've seen or played suggests that Corruptors can match that, even with really good luck with Scourge.
And Blaster Melee attacks are absolutely brutal- as has been mentioned, check the numbers. You just need to adapt your playstyle; Blasters do not play like Corruptors, they require a great deal more mobility to run to their fullest potential.
Scrappers and Brutes seem to be about even in the long run, from what I've seen- they just leverage their damage differently... and while Brutes may have a slight edge in survivability, it's really not that big of a difference in standard play. *shrug*
Tanks do what they do very, very, very well. Nothing in the game can soak damage like a Tanker can. A good Tank will direct the flow of battle, keeping things under solid control and positioning things so that their teammates can use their powers to best advantage.
StrykerX speaks truth regarding Controllers- high-level ones can do absolutely obscene amounts of damage.
Defenders are a bit of an odd duck; they can't do damage like Corruptors do, at least alone, but that minor difference in buff/debuff strength adds up surprisingly quickly when you have two or more 'fenders on the team. A team of 8 defenders will chew up and spit out anything the game has to offer without even breaking a sweat.
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if you try to play blueside after playing villain content, prepare to be bored to tears.
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*sigh*
Yes, because the content is so radically different -_-;
Mind you, be careful- a lot of the older content follows some different (and frankly rather questionable) design doctrines, so you may find yourself frustrated and annoyed at constant FedEx missions, random zoning, and contacts who refuse to give out their cel number until you're on their third-from-the-last mission. If you stick to the newer areas (levelling via the Hollows, Faultline, Striga, and Croatoa), there's no real worries.
In all honesty? TRY IT. It's the only way you'll know. Play them up for a few levels and then make a judgement call from knowledge, rather than just vague (and occasionally wildly inaccurate) generalizations.
"A soft answer turneth away wrath. Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head." Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates
MA Arcs: #12285, "Small Fears", #106553, "Trollbane", #12669, "How to Survive a Robot Uprising"
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Mind you, be careful- a lot of the older content follows some different (and frankly rather questionable) design doctrines, so you may find yourself frustrated and annoyed at constant FedEx missions, random zoning, and contacts who refuse to give out their cel number until you're on their third-from-the-last mission. If you stick to the newer areas (levelling via the Hollows, Faultline, Striga, and Croatoa), there's no real worries.
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This is true. The original zones are rather large blueside, and there are two zones for almost every level range. The missions involve more zoning than redside, so they take longer. However, the newer zones are better than anything redside has to offer.
I'd suggest leveling to 5 doing your normal opening contact missions (or join a sewer team, but you should really play the initial stuff once to see it). Then hit Kings Row and get your police radio, and run radio missions until you get a Safeguard mission and get your raptor pack.
Once you have a flight pack, hit the Hollows. The mission arcs there are very interesting. You may need to level up some since the second two arcs are 10+, but once you hit 10 go back for them. You can hit Faultline at 15 (you need to be 20 for the last 2 arcs), Striga at 20, and Croatoa at 25. All those zones are very good looking and have interesting missions. In particular, be sure to run a Hess TF in Striga... that one is a blast.
I really wish redside had a couple of new-style hazard zones like Striga and Croatoa. They're the most interesting low to mid level zones in the game... even the Hollows, now that it has been reworked to not constantly send you to the far end of a two mile wide zone past swarms of +6 purple mobs.
Cascade, level 50 Blaster (NRG/NRG since before it was cool)
Mechmeister, level 50 Bots / Traps MM
FAR too many non-50 alts to name
[u]Arcs[u]
The Scavenger Hunt: 187076
The Instant Lair Delivery Service: 206636
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I'm not seeing what EM has to offer for Blasters. Many power sets have a build-up. Endurance shouldn't be an issue for most characters. Primary power sets offer plenty of attacks, so the few from EM shouldn't be needed. I just don't see the advantage it has, especially over a kinetics corrupter.
Willpower is a great secondary for scrappers or brutes. I think I would prefer to have it on a brute, though, because of fury damage bonus. If I'm not getting hit, it might be hard to get the fury going, but I know a /WP character can take a beating with the high regen and the right defense set bonuses.
My corrupter is AR/kinetics because I didn't want to be a fire primary like most are. Flamethrower and burn patches do plenty of DoT while I'm buffing or doing something else. The burn patch does enough damage by itself to kill lieutenants with fulcrum shift up.
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I use my Sonic/Electric Blaster as a Blapper, focusing on the melee secondaries. Seems like he outdamages my Scrappers, but I had to build for good defense through IOs. I cant seem to pull that kind of deal off with any of my Corrs, but Doms better fit the Blapper playstyle anyways. The moral of the story and common thread you see from the responses is, you cant pigeonhole ATs until you play/have a better understanding of them.
As far as the blue content being bleh, both sides are boring if you don't have some good people to run mishs with.
"Forum PvP doesn't give drops. Just so all of you who participated in this thread are aware." -Mod08-
"when a stalker goes blue side, assassination strike should be renamed "bunny hugs", and a rainbow should fly out" -Harbinger-
Thanks for the quality replies instead of flaming me for my ignorance. It looks like Hero ATs are more focused on one role, but I've usually preferred hybrid classes in MMOs, which is why villains seem better to me. I may give blaster or controller a serious try if I can find or make a build I like. I'm leaning toward fire/kinetics controller after reading StrykerX's post.
Sounds cool- be warned, though... in terms of 'feel'?
Blasters peak very, very early- they're actually a bit overpowered in the early game- but mob health and resistances scale faster than your damage does. By the endgame, you're still a relentless engine of destruction, but you have to kill things one room at a time rather than simply wreaking a swathe of destruction three miles wide 
Controllers, on the other hand, mature quite late. The low-level game (at least in my experience, with a Grav/Kin) is a bit of a slog, really. It's only in the later game (post pet, basically) that Controllers really and truly start to come into their own.
"A soft answer turneth away wrath. Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head." Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates
MA Arcs: #12285, "Small Fears", #106553, "Trollbane", #12669, "How to Survive a Robot Uprising"
I think I have the patience for waiting for a character to become powerful. I leveled a worthless stone brute to 38 just because I knew how good it would be after I got past that point.
I played CoH back when it first came out and quit before getting to 30 because it was too much of a grind back then. I tried rejoining when CoV came out, but it was still just a long grindfest. Now, with AE, it doesn't seem like leveling a character up is as much of a pain. I don't have to find people within 1 level of mine just to get decent groups going. The XP also seems to go faster with efficient boss-farming in AE. I think if they do something drastic to the AE XP farming, I would quit the game again.
Edit:
Looks like I'm going with Plant/Storm/Ice controller. Kinetics was very time consuming to maintain SB on everyone in the group and I don't need that again. The resistance debuff from freezing rain will stack nicely with FS when I team with a kinetic.
Plant/Storm is a lot of fun. I have a low level one that I'm going to get around to playing more some day (but then I pretty much have a low level everything sitting around waiting their turn on one server or another) and I found he did quite well at low levels for a Controller. One thing that helps is that Roots does more damage than the other AoE immobilizes, so if you lead off with that, use your single target attacks, and then drop another application of Roots you'll have decent DoTs going on the whole spawn. Add that to Freezing Rain and you have halfway decent early game AoE (for a Controller, anyway) and with Seeds of Confusion you can use that AoE pretty safely.
Cascade, level 50 Blaster (NRG/NRG since before it was cool)
Mechmeister, level 50 Bots / Traps MM
FAR too many non-50 alts to name
[u]Arcs[u]
The Scavenger Hunt: 187076
The Instant Lair Delivery Service: 206636
I am trying to decide what to make for my next alt. I have a 50 kinetics corrupter and 50 stone brute. I am open to suggestions, but it will probably have to be a villain because nobody has convinced me of anything superior about hero ATs, except for the tanker's ability to take damage.
Blasters have pretty good damage, but their secondaries seem weak. They don't buff or heal and the secondaries don't add any significant damage. Corrupters do almost the same damage, while having the ability to heal and buff when not focusing on damage. One might argue that blasters are only focused on one thing, however with more damage power sets on Villain side (Dom vs Controller), a corrputer can slack off and things will still die fast.
Defenders and Corrupters are almost identical, except that corrupters have higher base damage for almost everything. The minor difference in amount healed or buffed amounts to nothing in actual play.
Controllers appear to have the short end of the stick when it comes to power sets. They can use their crowd control, then they don't have anything else to do, usually. Buffing isn't a full-time job. Healing won't be needed if they have everything crowd-controlled and the tanker has aggro correctly. Dominators are the clear winners here because they do damage after CCing.
Scrappers do decent single-target damage, with limited AoE options. They aren't meant for tanking, and brutes do it better. One might pick a scrapper for PvP, but I think a stalker would be preferred for the stealth. Once a brute gets his fury up, I think the damage would look better. I could be wrong, however, since I'm not completely familiar with scrapper crit mechanics.
Tankers have better mitigation than brutes, which is all I see going for Hero ATs. Unfortunately, the damage on a tanker is poor compared to a brute with fury going.
So, I don't really have any interest in playing Hero ATs. If you suggest one for an alt, please explain why it will work well, either solo or in a team. Currently, I am looking for an alt idea that will likely solo well, so good DPS is a plus.
Here are some builds I've been thinking about: Electric/Shield brute, Energy/Willpower brute, Stone/? tanker, and maybe a blaster if someone can explain what makes them better than my kinetics corrupter.