Well, Energy is still one of the best for single target damage. Fire and Stone are better, but EM has better mitigation than Fire and you don't want Stone. I'm not a fan of SR combined with it though, EM really needs a heal or regeneration to make up for the loss of health from Energy Transfer. Aid Self can do it, but the animation time of that would really reduce your damage output.
Thanks for your feedback. What is it that makes Fire and Stone better than Energy? As you can tell, I'm still really new at the game, so I still have a lot to learn. I was told that Willpower wasn't good for PVP, but would it be worth it to go WP for Energy Transfer? I can't remember, is Regen an option for Brutes?
Most damage sets gets an added effect. Battle Axe gets knockback, Energy Melee gets stun, Fiery Melee gets more damage. The only thing you'll ever get from Fiery Melee is damage and lots of it. So while it's not necessarily better overall, it's certainly better for damage. It's also got decent AE damage.
Stone Melee has some really high damage attacks, most notably Seismic Smash which is probably the best attack in the game. Not only does it do tons of damage, but it can also hold bosses.
Now I didn't notice you were talking about PvP. The mechanics are completely different between PvP and PvE. If you want to be good at PvP I recommend the PvP forums, very few who frequent the AT forums knows much about it, me included. I do know that nothing beats Super Strength for PvP though. I think the devs forgot to balance for damage buffs, the fools. I also know that Willpower is bad for PvP.
Willpower is very good with EM in PvE. For PvP I think /Fire would be the best choice. You get Healing Flames to get your health back up (awesome, awesome self heal). Heck, /Fire's a good choice for PvE as well. But again, for better PvP advice turn to those forums.
Is it easy enough to level a character that it would be worth it to make a Fire/Fire character for PvE to get a good feel for the game, then a SS/whatever for PvP to make a good char?
Brutes don't get regeneration, no. And yes, PvP would probably be SS/FA due to Rage and Fiery Embrace, but the PvP section of the forums will give you better answers.
TL;DR version: which set you want is going to depend on what you're planning on putting into it for IOs - faster animations and recharges work better for procs, and raw damage numbers fluctuate wildly based on available recharge.
Details
With all credit to BillZBubba, he made a little comparison chart for each primary available to both Scrappers and Brutes (even though not all of the ones available for one are available for the other), and posted results in two different threads in the Scrapper forum.
The first test was extreme recharge builds, and trying to find optimal chains for single target damage. In that case, against one target, Stone Melee was the winner but also used the highest endurance per second. It was edged out by Dark Melee with 10 targets for Soul Drain, but that would involve keeping at least 9 other things around you in addition to what you're trying to kill at all times.
These are all PvE numbers, the damage on attacks changes based on animation time due to the PvP rules and have to be looked at again.
Those results were:
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If you just want the results of this single target attack chain DPS calculations, scroll to the bottom.
DISLAIMER: These attack chains may not be the best out there. There were chosen by general consensus with the help of fellow players.
Methodology:
Numbers derived from Red Tomax's City of Data
Cast times altered using Arcanaville's tick interval modification roundup((base/.132)+1)*.132 and all cast times listed in this post are showing this modified value.
All attack chains set at a total recharge value of 250%. If that level of recharge left gaps in the chain, those gaps were calculated and added to the total chain time.
All attacks were given 33% endurance reduction for EPS calculations.
250% recharge on BuildUp gives it a 37% uptime
90/3.5 = 25.714 I made the assumption that the BU buff started instantly but the recharge didn't start until after the cast time was completed. Cast for BU is 1.32 + 25.714 = 27.034 of which 10 seconds is 36.99%, round up to 37 seconds. Build for brutes is 80%. Therefore, average damage gain from BU for a brute is .37*base*.8
Soul Drain uptime follows the same logic. 2.508 cast; 34.286 recharge; .81535 uptime
Soul Drain checked for 10, 3 and 1 enemies.
Rage was tricky to get the crash value, but I figured it out the same as above. 68.571 rec + 1.32 cast and then rounded up to 70. Uptime 1.717 and a crash every 120 seconds after Rage starts. Turned out to be 30 seconds down out of 270 seconds. So I removed 11% of Superstrength's DPA from the total chain DPA.
Followup and Blinding Feint were double stacked.
The Attack Chains:
BRUTE DARK Midnight Grasp/Gloom/Smite/Siphon Life/Gloom/Smite
BRUTE FIERY Gloom/Incinerate/Greater Fire Sword
BRUTE STONE Seismic Smash/Stone Fist/Gloom/Stone Fist/Heavy Mallet
BRUTE STRENGTH KnockOut Blow/Gloom/Haymaker/Punch/Gloom/Haymaker
BRUTE ENERGY Energy Transfer/Gloom/BoneSmasher/Total Focus
BRUTE ELECTRIC Gloom/Chain Induction/Jacob's Ladder/Charged Brawl
BRUTE DUAL BLADES Blinding Feint/Ablating Strike/Sweeping Strike/Ablating Strike
BRUTE BATTLEAXE Swoop/Gash/Cleave/Chop
BRUTE WARMACE Clobber/Jawbreaker/Shatter
SCRAP DARK Midnight Grasp/Smite/Siphon Life/Smite
SCRAP FIERY Incinerate/Cremate/Greater Fire Sword
SCRAP BROADSWORD Headsplitter/Hack/Disembowel/Hack
SCRAP KATANA Golden Dragonfly/Gambler's Cut/Soaring Dragon/Gambler's Cut
SCRAP MARTIAL ARTS Storm Kick/Crane Kick/Storm Kick/Crippling Axe Kick
SCRAP CLAWS Followup/Slash/Focus/Strike
SCRAP DUAL BLADES Blinding Feint/Ablating Strike/Sweeping Strike/Ablating Strike
SCRAP SPINES Ripper/Dark Blast/Throw Spines/Dark Blast
THE RESULTS from best DPS to worst:
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>
Brute Dark w/ 10 222.7 4.53 EPS
Scrap Dark w/ 10 222 4 EPS
Brute Stone 218 5.2 EPS
Brute Fiery 213.2 3.83 EPS
Brute Strength 212.6 4.59 EPS
Brute Energy 207.4 3.84 EPS
Brute Warmace 203.4 4.71 EPS
Brute Dark w/ 3 201.7 4.53 EPS
Brute Dark w/ 1 194.7 4.53 EPS
Scrap Fiery 190.3 3.48 EPS
Brute Battleaxe 187.2 4.34 EPS
Scrap Dark w/ 3 181 4 EPS
Scrap Dual Blades 169.7 4.42 EPS
Scrap Dark w/ 1 169.3 4 EPS
Brute Electric 169 4.69 EPS
Brute Dual Blades 168.3 4.42 EPS
Scrap Katana 168.3 4.16 EPS
Scrap Martial Arts 165.4 4.24 EPS
Scrap Broadsword 154.8 3.85 EPS
Scrap Claws 154.2 3.46 EPS
Scrap Spines 135.9 4.22 EPS
</pre><hr />
[/ QUOTE ]
With no power pool attacks - Gloom being available to Brutes and not Scrappers was mentioned as a possible skewing of the results - and just level 50 common IO slotting, here were the results:[ QUOTE ]
Others stated that such high recharge rates were unrealistic. Fair enough. Now only level 50 basic IOs are used. No hasten.
Most attacks are slotted 1acc/1end-red/1rec-red/3dam
Several high recharge are slotted 1acc/1end-red/2rec-red/2dam
Buffs (blindingfeint, followup, rage, souldrain, buildup) have 3 rec-red
I did not include DualBlade combos
I did include Quills for Spines (1end-red/3dam)
Brutes on average do 3.177% more damage than scrappers.
Scrapper SS is 11.626% better than Brute SS. This is due to rage being almost perma and granting a higher buff plus scrapper AT mod being higher.
Brute FM does 15.606% more damage than Scrap FM because the extra DoT damage is affected by fury but not affected by criticals.
Similar issue with Spines.
Here is the much cleaner spreadsheet.
And here's the new chart:
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>
Powerset DPS EPS
Brute Fiery 172.6 3.1
Brute Energy 157.5 3.3
Scrap Energy 151 3.3
Scrap Claws 149.6 2.9
Brute Claws 149.5 2.9
Scrap Fiery 149.3 3.1
Brute Warmace 148 3.7
Brute Dark 143.7 3.1
Brute Martial Arts 143.7 3.6
Scrap Strength 142.1 2.9
Scrap Dark 141.6 3.1
Scrap Martial Arts 141.5 3.6
Scrap Warmace 141 3.7
Brute Stone 137.5 3.5
Scrap Dual Blades 136.3 3.5
Brute Dual Blades 134.8 3.5
Scrap Stone 131.8 3.5
Brute Katana 131.2 3.2
Brute Battleaxe 129.3 3.2
Scrap Katana 128.6 3.2
Brute Strength 127.3 2.9
Brute Broadsword 124.9 3.1
Scrap Battleaxe 123.3 3.2
Scrap Broadsword 121.7 3.1
Brute Electric 106.6 2.9
Scrap Electric 103.6 2.9
Brute Spines 93.4 1.6
Scrap Spines 80.1 1.6</pre><hr />
[/ QUOTE ]
If you want to read of the threads, the first one is here and the second one here.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
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I have 30 active characters and have deleted about twice that in total. I dare you to stick to just one.
I'm not sure what you like in the game. I always create a solo character that I have just to experience all the content in the game. Missions feels a lot more meaningful in this game than in other MMOs. If story is not your thing, then I suggest teaming as much as possible. You gain XP much faster that way so you'll reach PvP levels faster and it's in my opinion a lot more fun. Pick a highly populated server (Freedom or Virtue) to make it easy to find teams (there may be a PvP focused server too, not sure about that).
Siolfir, your post was very helpful and informative. So, from what I'm seeing, just for pure damage, Stone and Fiery are the best (Excluding Dark because of the need for 10 targets), with Fiery using up much less EPS than Stone. Does that mean you would recommend Fiery as a build then? Or is there something else wrong with it? Also, is there any secondary that stands above others in PvE and hopefully PvP, or is it easy enough to level that I can make a just PvE character and then make one for PvP.
Heh, thank BillZBubba, he did all the math on it; I just knew where to find it and quoted it.
Stone Melee has advantages over Fire Melee which aren't accounted in pure damage but in mitigation. It plugs holes in secondaries with powers like Fault (AoE knockdown/stun), but requires a lot of endurance and really shines with high recharge. If you were planning an Electric Armor Brute, I'd say roll with SM because the sets work well with each other.
Fire Melee does more initial damage, more AoE damage (Stone and Energy are both pretty much bottom of the barrel for AoE damage), but provides no mitigation whatsoever. This means you're leaning heavily on your secondary to keep you alive. Secondaries like an IO'd out softcapped SR (where everything has the minimum chance to hit you in the first place) would work well for that, because your only real option is "kill it faster than it kills you".
As for how to go about it... it's not that difficult to level a character up so long as you enjoy it and stick with it. Most characters encounter a slog through the teens, and Brutes in particular get incredible once you first pick up SO (or similar percentage bonus IO) enhancements.
You can either select sets that will work in either PvE or PvP (SS/FA is a farming build as well as a PvP build, but it goes about it differently) and use dual builds to focus them appropriately, or just make a couple and switch between them.
My personal recommendation would be to make a few and find one you like to stick with - if you're running solo pretty much any Brute combination works for PvE.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
|
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
|
You know, those tables explain a lot of my experiences. My prime scrapper is BS/, secondary is Spines/. My brutes are Electric/ and SS/. So other than the SS brute, I basically have a clean sweep of the bottom of the damage pool.
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
Remember those numbers are not based on damage, they are single target damage. So while spines is the bottom of the list for damage, that doesn't count the extra damage it does to the other guys around the target taking damage from it's 2 cones and 2 pbaoe attacks.
Yeah going against elite bosses and higher they are at a disadvantage. In normal group play those aoe's cause havoc to a spawn.
Dirges
Solo EM is still great. 2 very strong attacks. On teams it is another story. Because the animations for those 2 attacks are so long, many times you end up pounding a corpse or hitting a mob for hundreds of points of damage when they have 20hp left.
And the regen in WP works great for the self damage in energy transfer.
I love energy melee, but for a secondary i would have to suggest energy aura over SR. For the simple fact that while both are very good as far as defenses, energy aura has an end drain power which can heal as well. I've won a lot of fights by draining someone's endurance at the right time. Plus you can use it when your tier 9 power crashes, and if you're good, your toggles won't even drop.
Leader of the NITES of DARKNESS VG
Join my fan club today!
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah going against elite bosses and higher they are at a disadvantage. In normal group play those aoe's cause havoc to a spawn.
[/ QUOTE ]If my normal experience was group play, that might actually matter. So the whole single-target damage is really where I'm at. Sometimes there is a second enemy to fight. Usually, I line my cones up wrong and only get one of them. I hate cones. I like PBAOE's. Sigh.
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
So I'm still on the free trial, trying to decide on a final build to go before I buy the game. I recently went with Energy as the primary for the Brute, with Super Reflexes secondary. I was told to go Energy primary due to the huge and unparalleled single target damage, and then SR secondary, because of the benefit in PVP. I recently saw some posts on the forums regarding Energy not being very good though, due to some recent update. So I was wondering if Energy was still any good, and if not, what would be a good build to go? I prefer high single target damage, but I would prefer not going Stone, because my friend is doing that, and I don't want to copy builds. Any suggestions?