To blow bubbles or shout loudly, Which Support?
By
Alexandria2000,
Posted on: 2009-05-22 16:01 in Defenders
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I think FF is actually a much worse powerset for Controllers than Defenders, if all you're looking at are the bubbles. At least on the Defender, you give as much defense as possible, and when you're done bubbling, you're free to blast away.
On a Controller, not only are your bubbles not as strong, but once you buff the team and control the mob, then what do you do? Hold them again? Admire all the cool looking animations everyone else is using to actually accomplish something in the fight? I would go bored out of my mind playing like that.
If that's what is important to you and that is how you want to play, then I encourage you to pursue it. Me? I'll be taking all the powers in FF (except maybe Detention Field; I never have like intangibles), because they are all good, and I like them.
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I find the hate for controller bubbles on these boards funny. If you care about maxing out defense, it's still possible (the key is to make sure to take Power Boost).
So it all depends on what else you're planning on doing with your time.
My Ill/FF is actually a bad example, but then again, I built him to dual box. I would never recommend his build for someone who wants to devote their entire attention... That said, every Master of Statesman Task Force he has been on has been successful. (In places where FF doesn't make things easy, Illusion often does.)
I do have a couple of other Ill/FFs in my SG, though. They are both built for a more active play style, and I'd have to say that I'm never upset to have them on a team. (And one of them explicitly built his toon to be as annoying as possible: PFF-herding mobs back to the group that they might not be able to handle, Detention Field at inopportune times... All that said, when he's not playing to piss people off he's good to have on a team.)
Out of the three of us, I am the only one with a "boring" build, and after my most recent respec, it's not as boring as the original build was.
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I find the hate for controller bubbles on these boards funny.
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There is hate for Controller bubbles on these boards?
Admittedly, I don't have a lot of respect for someone who plays FF and only takes the bubbles, but that is true for both Defenders and Controllers. I do, however, respect their choice. If that is what they find fun, then more power to them. I find it mind-numbing.
I will also admit I was using hyperbole to make a point. Not all Controller powersets play the control-and-wait game. I was merely trying to point out that all Defender secondaries are blasts, powers which tend to be used as often as they recharge.
If all you are doing with FF on a Controller is bubble the team, then your secondary will sit idle for 4 minutes at a time. That leaves just the primary, and many of those powers won't be spammed, either.
Now, will that Controller be effective at protecting the team? Almost certainly. I would never want to play like that, however. I like doing things all the time. If there was an EMP Arrow powerset, where all 9 powers were EMP Arrow, that toon would be amazing at protecting the team. Every spawn would be held until it was dead. It wouldn't leave much room to do anything else, however, so I would never play it. Effective? Yes. Boring? Yes!
Bye, everybody!
*Champion*
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the player has little influence on its effectiveness. All you can do is buff shields and try to keep dispersion on everyone.
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*double facepalm*
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I'm sorry you disagree but in my experience it is true. The difference between a really good FF defender and a bad FF defender is very small aslong as they do the bare minimum, maintain buffs. On my FF defender I never felt I could utilize my skills. I know you get repulsion bomb and force bolt but really you can only do so much even with precise knockbacks/knockdowns.
This is why I personally would recommend a /FF controller, because the controller primary allows a good player to have a much bigger impact on a team setting.
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hmmm.... it took me ONE year for my FF/Elec the first time, and that's supposed to be a less offensive secondary than /Rad.... hhmmmm...
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There's not a lot of synergy. FF works best when you can plink away at range.
Rad has always worked best up close and personal (especially before Cosmic Burst's range was buffed). Rad's a good blast set, but it needs reinforcement from its primary to really shine, something that simply can't be got from FF.
Anyway, I'd get frustrated with the combination and move on to something else.
Well, true, I hate people and I'm probably going to end up leaving my vast fortune to Muffy. Isn't that right, Muffikins?
And Controller FF does let about twice as much damage through as Defender FF. (30% vs 40% Defense, or 35/45 counting the big 3 plus Maneuvers.) But I've also been on teams that had another Force Fielder who couldn't be bothered to keep the shields up on ME. My only reason to be on that team (vs. someone who would have done 50% to 100% more damage) was that the guy who was already there was a useless boatanchor. So me and my darling, darling Muffy want to hurt those people! Isn't that right?
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
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the player has little influence on its effectiveness. All you can do is buff shields and try to keep dispersion on everyone.
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*double facepalm*
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I'm sorry you disagree but in my experience it is true. The difference between a really good FF defender and a bad FF defender is very small aslong as they do the bare minimum, maintain buffs. On my FF defender I never felt I could utilize my skills. I know you get repulsion bomb and force bolt but really you can only do so much even with precise knockbacks/knockdowns.
This is why I personally would recommend a /FF controller, because the controller primary allows a good player to have a much bigger impact on a team setting.
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Okay, what do you mean by bigger impact? I'd say providing high amounts of defense is providing a very large impact - giving the rest of your team the ability to smack down mobs and not worry about damage all that much. And it gets noticed when you're not there.
I started my first FF defender yesterday. She's now 18. I used to have that opinion before I rolled her, and nearly made her a controller...then I decided to try FF/Ice.
My fellow squishies loved me because forcebolt/Freeze Ray kept mobs out of their faces, and the damage dealers liked Ice's overall slows (much love to frozen breath right before the scrapper unleashed an AoE). And of course, everyone was getting hurt less. I was having a heck of a lot of fun doing what I did - keep everyone buffed and then go smack some mobs. I was *busy!*
Of course YMMV, seriously. It's all a question of what type of activity makes you more happy. Controlling and having FF as a secondary may be more your thing. I have a whole slew of controllers myself so I understand - you hold a mob, everyone sees what you're doing... but it doesn't mean the defender version isn't just as valid. It's just a different way of team contribution and not necessarily quite as visible or lauded.
I did get a frisson of glee when the first pug I got on went "BUBBLES! YAYYYYY!" 
Yep, Silverglass is a keeper.
Currently playing:
The Domestic: Broom/WP
Shadowhex: Dark Control/Dark Affinity
Defenestration Lass: Grav/Kin
"See, this is what happens when you have to shove all this stuff into your pockets: it's easy to misplace a suborbital warhead." -Arcanaville, on how crowded our power trays are getting lately
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And Controller FF does let about twice as much damage through as Defender FF. (30% vs 40% Defense, or 35/45 counting the big 3 plus Maneuvers.)
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Actually, 35% v. 45% +def isn't "twice as much damage". It's thrice as much damage. 35% +def is 70% mitigation. 45% is 90% mitigation. 30% incoming damage v. 10% incoming damage. You are right on 30% v. 40% however. 60% mitigation v. 80% mitigation.
Keep in mind that Defenders don't just support through their primaries. Depending on your choice of secondary, you can contribute an even larger amount to your team. Of course, this requires that you actually choose an appropriate secondary. Force Field gets a lot of its effectiveness from it's paired power set though. It only takes 12.5% of your time to get 90% of the effectiveness of the power set. The rest of the time you should be spending supporting your team through your other means.
Archery, Energy Blast, and Radiation Blast aren't going to provide much in the way of additional support. Archery just lends more damage though it's significantly less than it could be thanks to the Defender damage scalar. Energy Blast doesn't provide much more real effect from knockback than the Blaster version but is significantly lower damage. Radiation Blast suffers from a largely redundant secondary effect because most people are already dancing at the 95% tohit region as soon as they hit SOs, if not before.
Dark, Ice, and Sonic Blast are incredibly useful. Dark drops -tohit, though this becomes less useful when you start getting a fully built FF/*. Ice, as previously mentioned by RadicalGirl, has the holds and slows. Sonic just has loads upon loads of a rare and highly useful debuff: -res. It's also got some control to make it even better.
Electrical and Psionic are middling in their performance. Psionic is like a less dangerous Ice Blast. Electric does the least damage and has the least reliable/effective secondary effect of all of the Defender blast sets.
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Yep, Silverglass is a keeper.
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Hey Silver, I teamed with you yesterday with my Sonic/Sonic - Continuum Shift. +Def, +Res, and -Res (bad guys) is hard to top on a team. 
- Feint
7+ year vet with too many alts to list...
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Yep, Silverglass is a keeper.
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Hey Silver, I teamed with you yesterday with my Sonic/Sonic - Continuum Shift. +Def, +Res, and -Res (bad guys) is hard to top on a team.
- Feint
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Amen to that. I have a Son/Son waiting in the wings just as soon as Silverglass hits 22 and SOs.
Which won't be that far away - she just dinged 21.
Currently playing:
The Domestic: Broom/WP
Shadowhex: Dark Control/Dark Affinity
Defenestration Lass: Grav/Kin
"See, this is what happens when you have to shove all this stuff into your pockets: it's easy to misplace a suborbital warhead." -Arcanaville, on how crowded our power trays are getting lately
hmmm.... it took me ONE year for my FF/Elec the first time, and that's supposed to be a less offensive secondary than /Rad.... hhmmmm...