Ticket Cap Real Numbers / Efficiency
By
Aura_Familia,
Posted on: 2009-05-13 10:02 in Mission Architect
Much appreciated good sir.
You know... just examine this little plan:
- Get yourself into a huge SG.
- Get every member of your SG to publish 3 arcs out with small maps, just one mission each so they're very short to complete.
- Go and 5-star each others' arcs. Each 5-star grants 25 tickets without the author doing anything other than publishing the arc. That's 75 tickets for each SG-member from each other SG-member.
- After each SG-member has rated each Arc, remove all the Arcs and have each member re-publish their arcs with new ID's!
- Rinse Repeat, and since the tickets are account-wide claimable, make sure to claim them and distribute them amongst your neediest characters before you reach the global ticket-cap per account!
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
If I had 46 people at my disposal I would do what I first posted times 15 groups. This would net 1500 tickets x 15 groups x 10 runs per hour for a total of 225,000 tickets per hour.
Interesting idea Xenite.
It seems like a colossal investment of time and energy for a rather small reward the way you explain it, but it gave me an idea.
What if we standardize a ticket farm map? By that I mean, what if we create the perfect ticket farm map, host it somewhere and encourage everyone to post it with the understanding that five starring these maps is to be expected?
We might want to limit this to friends, family, SG mates, etc. until we know whether or not this is an illegal map, but I think there's a good potential for the map black market somebody posted about yesterday.
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You know... just examine this little plan:
- Get yourself into a huge SG.
- Get every member of your SG to publish 3 arcs out with small maps, just one mission each so they're very short to complete.
- Go and 5-star each others' arcs. Each 5-star grants 25 tickets without the author doing anything other than publishing the arc. That's 75 tickets for each SG-member from each other SG-member.
- After each SG-member has rated each Arc, remove all the Arcs and have each member re-publish their arcs with new ID's!
- Rinse Repeat, and since the tickets are account-wide claimable, make sure to claim them and distribute them amongst your neediest characters before you reach the global ticket-cap per account!
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Would you think that this constitute an "exploit of the system" and might bring down the hammer of positron on the SG members? I think it might be considered "against the spirit" of the system. It seems they want us to play the game, not the system. It would be interesting to find out if they could determine this was being done and what exactly the devs would do.
You realize this is the kind of thing that the Devs really don't want people doing, right?
Also:
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After you complete the mission, if you continue to kill enemies, you continue to get tickets again. So getting 3500 tickets from a full clear is still possible but you won't get any bonus.
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It never occurred to you that this may(is) be a bug? And exploiting that bug like this, is again, not what the Devs want or like.
Really?
They just patched the game to cap the tickets gained per mission...you found a way around the cap and think, hells yeah! I'll even go post it on the boards!
Really?
A hard cap to rewards gained in a mission, as has been argued by myself and others, is little more than a half-baked, rushed Band-Aid that violates the spirit of the Risk:Reward ratio that Positron repeatedly talks about.
This behavior in no way, shape or form violates a Risk:Reward ratio. If anything, it is subjecting you to harder mobs (as has been discussed elsewhere).
Oh -- it was around this point in my post I went and looked and found that Positron had changed his message.
Abuse is now, Disregard for the risk and/or time to reward ratio whereas before time was not mentioned.
Alright, it is abuse.
Edit: Dangling preposition.
I considered editing my post to remove the potential that this was a bug, but I refuse to believe it is a bug. ANYONE testing the cap would catch this on their first attempt. I cannot believe a huge nerf like this went into production without a single competant tester finding this. I can only conclude this is working as designed.
Further ... my initial post concludes that it's NOT efficient to continue to kill mobs after mission completion, hence discouraging anyone from doing this.
It's too easy to scam the rating system right now. You can rate an arc without ever entering a single mission. This allows you to torpedo another person's arc or give your pals unearned tickets in seconds.
If the system required that you complete a mission or spend at least two, three or maybe five minutes in it before you can vote on it, the potential for abuse would be drastically reduced.
And, yes, I know about the autocomplete mission problem -- it's a bug they should fix. And maybe mission completion shouldn't even figure into it. If a mission only takes two minutes to complete something is fishy.
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I considered editing my post to remove the potential that this was a bug, but I refuse to believe it is a bug. ANYONE testing the cap would catch this on their first attempt. I cannot believe a huge nerf like this went into production without a single competant tester finding this. I can only conclude this is working as designed.
Further ... my initial post concludes that it's NOT efficient to continue to kill mobs after mission completion, hence discouraging anyone from doing this.
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You assume it was on TEST long enough for anyone to reasonably test enough so that any such work arounds could be found. With how fast patches now go from TEST to LIVE that would be a bad assumption.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
You know what? I recant that.
I do not believe this is abuse of the system; it does not, in my mind, violate the spirit of a series of numbers I am not privy to.
If anything it finally gives us a hard and fast ruling.
The Time:Reward ratio, applicable only to tickets (though one might extrapolate to things purchasable with tickets), is Six minutes:1,500 tickets.
((You assume it was on TEST long enough for anyone to reasonably test enough so that any such work arounds could be found. With how fast patches now go from TEST to LIVE that would be a bad assumption. ))
This patch was on test longer than 10 minutes I assume. That's how long it took to test.
Only a matter of time before the MA won't allow all Boss, Lts. or minion custom critter missions.
Farm those bosses while you can folks.
And don't ask me how they'll do it. I don't work for Paragon Studios..I just know they will.
(QR)
See guys, I play the game to play the game. I care not for getting to Lv50, I care not for purpling a build because I know that eventually those goals are within my reach if I persevere. That perseverance and dedication is exactly what the Devs want from us because in the long run, it leads towards more profit for the Devs!
When people are looking to play the system rather than play the game, the Devs have to compensate to protect their preconceived projections. An MMO subscription plan is based on projections about how long it should take a normal/casual player to accomplish their goals, get burnt-out with their characters, and possibly even leave the game. However, these projections must be fluid and must undergo periodical inspection whenever the game's market and population responds by adjusting it's collective gameplay methods.
This is essentially what we're seeing here with the responses from the Devs, and the Devs will continue to respond like this whenever people will come up with ways to play the system rather than play the game.
@hewhorocks: Yes, of course this is an exploit and if the Devs data-mine and figure out that there is an SG out there whose members are constantly publishing arcs, rating them and then repeatedly un-publishing and re-publishing those same Arcs only to rinse-repeat, all the while gaining tickets without actually having *any* risks what-so-ever, I'd definitely expect the Devs to respond in some way to this.
@Nettik: Yes, indeed that seems a colossal investment of time and energy for a rather small reward, but this reward is guaranteed without any chance of risk what-so-ever. Never underestimate the laziness of people. 
@HenryTank: My idea was laid out and expressed like it was to show an example of how effortlessly it is to "earn" rewards in MMO's. It is all a function of time and effort. The Devs have the right to protect their design of exactly how long it should take a casual/normal player to get to Lv50 or to purple-out their build.
Focusing on efficient grinding/farming is simply going to bring more changes to the game, and not in the direction grinders/farmers want to see.
EDIT :: By the way, I have to add this so people don't get the wrong idea and think I'm a farmer/grinder/exploiter... were *I* Positron, I'd take away the ability to use tickets to buy rewards other than the unlockable MA/AE content, and instead give only XP/INF and Merits from MA/AE content, and with reduced rates so that MA/AE content is still played by people who want to experience it for the content and not because it grants better rewards than the normal in-game content.
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
The funny is farmers always say they're an important part of the game because they're the reason a lot of the highly sought after recipes 'n such are available on the markets for the rest of the community to obtain.
I argue if this is indeed true and the farming community was forced out....I do not find it out of the realm of possibility the Devs would simply allow the markets themselves to sell the things farming community blessed the rest of us with. I don't think perhaps 1 purple recipe per day or week would be terribly outrageous.
The rationale for this would be it takes x# of runs for a farmer to come across a purple recipe. The Devs simply have to put a price tag on those recipes when the house puts them up for bid.
After all, they do seem to be working towards giving the community at large what they want in the new expansion.
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The funny is farmers always say they're an important part of the game because they're the reason a lot of the highly sought after recipes 'n such are available on the markets for the rest of the community to obtain.
I argue if this is indeed true and the farming community was forced out....I do not find it out of the realm of possibility the Devs would simply allow the markets themselves to sell the things farming community blessed the rest of us with. I don't think perhaps 1 purple recipe per day or week outrageous.
The rationale for this would be it takes x# of runs for a farmer to come across a purple recipe. The Devs simply have to put a price tag on those recipes when the house puts them up for bid.
After all, they do seem to be working towards giving the community at large what they want in the new expansion.
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How is this related to this thread?
See, this is where you fail to understand the mentality of an efficency expert.
*Nerf All Custom Groups so that you cannot have all boss groups.
I will test all group combinations until I learn the most efficient groups to kill that give the highest rewards. Calculate how many i have to kill to get 900 tickets and continue.
*Nerf all ticket drops so that it's based soly on how long you spend inside a mission.
I will change my focus from tickets to which mobs give the highest infamy / time to kill ratio and treat tickets as a bonus.
*Nerf the rewards so that you can only roll on random salvage or random broze tickets and make the cost 10 times higher.
I will calculate how much infamy per hour can be made in AE and probably conclude clearing lib tv would be more efficient and go there.
These nerfs are only parts of an equation that needs to be re-calculated each time a change is made.
No matter what changes, there will always be a "most efficient" method of earning infamy.
Anyone who complains about the "most efficient" method to make infamy is an not the brightest star in the sky. I mean really ... you can always continue to nerf the "most efficient" method, but guess what ... now there's a different most efficient method. Get over it.
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The funny is farmers always say they're an important part of the game because they're the reason a lot of the highly sought after recipes 'n such are available on the markets for the rest of the community to obtain.
I argue if this is indeed true and the farming community was forced out....I do not find it out of the realm of possibility the Devs would simply allow the markets themselves to sell the things farming community blessed the rest of us with. I don't think perhaps 1 purple recipe per day or week outrageous.
The rationale for this would be it takes x# of runs for a farmer to come across a purple recipe. The Devs simply have to put a price tag on those recipes when the house puts them up for bid.
After all, they do seem to be working towards giving the community at large what they want in the new expansion.
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How is this related to this thread?
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Finding the most efficient way to spend time to maximize rewards has nothing to do with farming...brilliant.
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Finding the most efficient way to spend time to maximize rewards has nothing to do with farming...brilliant.
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Ok -- so you've made one of the necessary, illogical leaps from "How to maximize ticket gain" to "I think the Devs should have NPCs sell us IO sets" -- where are the others?
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Finding the most efficient way to spend time to maximize rewards has nothing to do with farming...brilliant.
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Ok -- so you've made one of the necessary, illogical leaps from "How to maximize ticket gain" to "I think the Devs should have NPCs sell us IO sets" -- where are the others?
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Reread my post. NPC's selling set recipes would be a result of the game losing the farming community.
Brain. Hi how are you?
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Reread my post. NPC's selling set recipes would be a result of the game losing the farming community.
Brain. Hi how are you?
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Ok, so because both your post and the OP are vaguely related to farming it makes plenty of sense for you to rebut an opinion nobody has expressed and make statements that are in no way, shape or form related to what we've been discussing?
Fine by me, I'm happy to continue to bump this thread with you; I welcome further, intelligent input on the original subject.
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Reread my post. NPC's selling set recipes would be a result of the game losing the farming community.
Brain. Hi how are you?
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Ok, so because both your post and the OP are vaguely related to farming it makes plenty of sense for you to rebut an opinion nobody has expressed and make statements that are in no way, shape or form related to what we've been discussing?
Fine by me, I'm happy to continue to bump this thread with you; I welcome further, intelligent input on the original subject.
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The OP is describing farming as it is known to supporters and detractors but enough of that.
Guess what..you won the debate.
You won a debate on the internet.
Congratulations.
Last time I checked, Games were supposed to be a recreational activity. Playing a game "efficiently" tends to turn the activity to a monotonous grind which to me resembles a job on an assembly line.
Oddly enough, if a lot of people gravitate to the assembly line, the Devs respond by changing the game and making the parts the assembly line focused on even less appealing for casual players as a result of the Devs' effort to return the assembly line workers back to their normal level of productivity.
In other words, people who play MMO's efficiently tend to show the Devs what in the game should be modified so that the casual gamer can play the game without feeling inferior to those so-called Efficiency Experts.
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
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Last time I checked, Games were supposed to be a recreational activity. Playing a game "efficiently" tends to turn the activity to a monotonous grind which to me resembles a job on an assembly line.
Oddly enough, if a lot of people gravitate to the assembly line, the Devs respond by changing the game and making the parts the assembly line focused on even less appealing for casual players as a result of the Devs' effort to return the assembly line workers back to their normal level of productivity.
In other words, people who play MMO's efficiently tend to show the Devs what in the game should be modified so that the casual gamer can play the game without feeling inferior to those so-called Efficiency Experts.
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This is the exact opposite of WoW's business model.
Prior to yesterday I spent alot of time clearing AE Mission boss maps. Typically 3 players. 45 minute run would earn us about 6000 (3500 drops + 2500 bonus) tickets per run. Now with the ticket cap being lowered to 1500 these runs are now a thing of the past.
We did some testing and here's what we found.
Same boss map. We would cap tickets after the 7th pull of 20+ mobs. If you hit the 1500 tickets from drops, your bonus for completing the mission is zero.
After you complete the mission, if you continue to kill enemies, you continue to get tickets again. So getting 3500 tickets from a full clear is still possible but you won't get any bonus.
If you kill enemies until you get about 800-1000 tickets and then complete the mission, you'll get 500-600 ticket bonus putting you at 1500 tickets for the mission.
After many tests I have to conclude the most efficient use of your time to collect tickets is:
Run a boss mission with 3 players. Do four pulls of 30+ bosses and get your 900 tickets. complete mission for another 600 tickets. Each run takes 6 minutes.