Perhaps some epic proliferation with I15?
By
Aggelakis,
Posted on: 2009-05-05 10:07 in Suggestions and Ideas
You can have more Epics when villains get a full set of thematically appropriate choices.
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You can have more Epics when villains get a full set of thematically appropriate choices.
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/this.
And honestly, along with non-patroned APPs redside, I'd still like to see some "patron" style pools and arcs blueside.
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You can have more Epics when villains get a full set of thematically appropriate choices.
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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You can have more Epics when villains get a full set of thematically appropriate choices.
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/this.
And honestly, along with non-patroned APPs redside, I'd still like to see some "patron" style pools and arcs blueside.
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yes.
~ Infinity Heroes ~
Dark Voltage - 50 NRG/NRG/EM Blaster
Shure Shot - 50 Arch/NRG/MM Blaster
Silent Shadow Blade - 50 Katana/SR/BM Scrapper
Uphir - 50 Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster
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You can have more Epics when villains get a full set of thematically appropriate choices.
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Note, I play every AT and have four villains in epic range. So my question is: WHY DOES THIS MATTER?
Obviously, it's easier to give Scrappers Fire Mastery than it is to create four-five new Brute choices in one fell swoop. It doesn't hurt Brutes for them not to have them right now.
There are no sides. This is one game. Asking for something for one AT doesn't hurt another.
my 2 inf.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
It's just as easy to give FIre Mastery to Brutes, AND it increases equality between sides.
It's one game, but two sides and both sides should be treated fairly.
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It's just as easy to give FIre Mastery to Brutes, AND it increases equality between sides.
It's one game, but two sides and both sides should be treated fairly.
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Yes, but by that token, then we should only ever create a new set, when we have 9 others for each other AT. I don't think that makes much sense.
Personally, I don't have a problem giving Brutes Fire Mastery. So if that's all you care about, sure give each villain AT a theme choice for a non-patron epic. But that's not what you said. You said:
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You can have more Epics when villains get a full set of thematically appropriate choices.
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And that's an unreasonable burden. It wouldn't even be fair. Because then you have to figure out some sort of patron system for heroes. The devs decided that it would be fair if villains got patron pools instead of epics. Typically, those patron pools get choices at level 41 that heroes don't get until 44 in their epics.
Is that fair? I don't know. I don't complain about it either. I think that it's a difference. I also don't think that it has any relevance to whether you should add more appropriate choices for the heroes now. I think an argument can be made that doing so now, makes things MORE fair. Why?
Scrappers still only have three epic choices. And they've been here long before any villain existed. Getting them to at least four should happen before villains get anything under your tortured logic. But then that's what is so silly and childish about trying to demand parity between the sides. It's not necessary for every change and the devs shouldn't have to consider that at every turn.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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You can have more Epics when villains get a full set of thematically appropriate choices.
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Note, I play every AT and have four villains in epic range. So my question is: WHY DOES THIS MATTER?
Obviously, it's easier to give Scrappers Fire Mastery than it is to create four-five new Brute choices in one fell swoop. It doesn't hurt Brutes for them not to have them right now.
There are no sides. This is one game. Asking for something for one AT doesn't hurt another.
my 2 inf.
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I don't know why, but I find that very amusing coming from you, EG 
Probably from the "All ATs on all sides!" bit that we don't agree on. >.>
Honestly, though, if that ever happened, just due to parity (and as much as I dislike that, given it's the reason for VEATs unlocking at 50, I have to believe it IS a consideration with the devs,) villainside would *have* to get something - or at least an announcement of something.
Personal preference is what I stated before. Nice, big package deal - Heroes can choose a patron (or whatever they'd call it,) villains can choose "neutral" APPs.
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You can have more Epics when villains get a full set of thematically appropriate choices.
[/ QUOTE ]
Note, I play every AT and have four villains in epic range. So my question is: WHY DOES THIS MATTER?
Obviously, it's easier to give Scrappers Fire Mastery than it is to create four-five new Brute choices in one fell swoop. It doesn't hurt Brutes for them not to have them right now.
There are no sides. This is one game. Asking for something for one AT doesn't hurt another.
my 2 inf.
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I don't know why, but I find that very amusing coming from you, EG Probably from the "All ATs on all sides!" bit that we don't agree on. >.>
Honestly, though, if that ever happened, just due to parity (and as much as I dislike that, given it's the reason for VEATs unlocking at 50, I have to believe it IS a consideration with the devs,) villainside would *have* to get something - or at least an announcement of something.
Personal preference is what I stated before. Nice, big package deal - Heroes can choose a patron (or whatever they'd call it,) villains can choose "neutral" APPs.
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Again if parity is the issue, then you must agree that Scrappers should get Pyre Mastery before ANYTHING else is done, simply to allow that AT to have four choices, no?
P.S. Like I've said in those arguments over merging the game fully, I really don't see sides or parity or any of that nonsense. It's one game to me. And it would be a better game if ethos was a choice not a destiny.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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*Pyramid snipped since Mod8 has been working so hard the last 24 hours and needs a break*
Again if parity is the issue, then you must agree that Scrappers should get Pyre Mastery before ANYTHING else is done, simply to allow that AT to have four choices, no?
P.S. Like I've said in those arguments over merging the game fully, I really don't see sides or parity or any of that nonsense. It's one game to me. And it would be a better game if ethos was a choice not a destiny.
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I wouldn't argue if Scrappers got it. *shrug* Especially with the ability to have Fire/Fire scrappers now. Not for the sake of 'parity,' in that case, but for the sake of 'It's been a while since they got something new, and it has a theme to complete.' If we get elec/elec ported over, I'd want to see an Electric mastery, too.
The biggest issue with giving non-patron choices to villains is that you can't, other than brutes, port them directly over. (Brutes would *likely* get Tank sets, since I doubt we'll see, say, Stone scrappers.) Would Stalkers get Scrapper sets? They have different weaknesses - they'd probably see a blending of Scrapper and Blaster. Dominators already get ranged damage, which is one of the hallmarks of Controller sets - so those couldn't be directly ported over, as they're generally meant to "fill holes." Corruptors would probably get adjusted Defender sets. And then there's Masterminds... It wouldn't be a "simple port," in the end. But I still think it's worth doing.
As far as the other - well, this is a reasonably nice thread, I'd rather not derail it getting into the same argument we *know* we don't agree on. So I'll just say "Yer mom was an iguana!" and leave it at that.
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It's just as easy to give FIre Mastery to Brutes, AND it increases equality between sides.
It's one game, but two sides and both sides should be treated fairly.
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I never understood this thinking. No matter how much work the devs put into "balancing" the sides, people will see them as not equal. Furthermore, why do they need to be equal? The devs maket the rules in this game and they will see fit to add and subtract when and where they want. If anything Posi's latest post sums that up nicely.
Actually, Bill... I think you Can.
The Blaster APPs are designed with Control/Defense in mind. So are the Corruptor PPPs.
Cold Mastery (Blasters):
Snowstorm AoE -spd -recharge
Flash Freeze AoE Sleep
Frozen Armor +res cold +def S/L
Hoarfrost +HP +res toxic
Hibernate +regen +recovery +intangible
Leviathan Mastery (Corruptors):
School of Sharks Cone Immob
Shark Skin +res S/L/cold
Spirit Shark Jaws Hold
Hibernate +regen +recovery +intangible
Summon Corallax Pet
School of Sharks is similar to Flash Freeze (temporary lockdown of target's movement, rather than just a breakable hold) Sharkskin comparable to Frozen Armor, Hibernate in both sets. Spirit Shark Jaws puts one target out of the fight instead of slowing the attacks of many like the snow storm.
So I think porting BlasterAPPs to Corruptors works pretty well?
Controllers and Dominators gain, shockingly, similar APP/PPP at level 41. Here's a comparison between Ice Mastery and Leviathan Mastery
Controller: Ice Mastery
Ice Blast ranged moderate foe -spd -rech
Hibernate +regen +recovery +intangible
Frozen Armor +res cold +def S/L
Frost Breath Cone moderate damage -spd -rech
Ice Storm AoE moderate damage -rech -spd
Dominator Leviathan Mastery
Waterspout AoE Minor S damage +disorient
Bile Spray Cone DoT
Shark Skin +res S/L/cold
Hibernate +regen +recovery +intangible
Sumon Coralax Pet
Again, really similar sets.
Stalker and Scrapper sets are pretty similar, too. 2 ranged attacks and some crowd control effects.
Defender APPs could be ported over for Masterminds, who gain some control abilities and some defenses from their PPPs.
And Brutes get Tank APPs. Really not that shocking, if you ask me. =-3
However. For Parity we'd need heroside PPPs, as well. SO I'll start working on those, next.
-Rachel-
Paragon Patron Pools.
Going over the various PPPs we currently have Villainside and comparing them to the APPs we have heroside I've gotten the general impression that while the APPs are advancements of your own -core- abilities (Dark/Dark/Dark Defender, anyone?) the Patron pools are more about emulating someone else, or having their power granted to you in some way.
So while the APPs should be varied and built for the AT they're constructed for, PPPs should be made in the image of the Patron with flavoring for the archetype.
So Here Goes.
I decided to use Positron, Numina, Psyche, and Synapse as my four Patrons. Because each represents a different avenue of Origin. Positron with Tech, Synapse with Science, Numina with Magic, and Psyche as a mutant.
Villains have Black Scorpion (Tech) Mako (Mutant) Ghost Widow (Magic) and Sirocco (Magic) But Redside focuses more on the mystical element in their enemy groups than the heroes do. So I swapped the second magic for a Science.
Now... The powers themselves should be divided in the same way that APPs are divided, but tied directly to the Patron, rather than being open ended.
Blasters: Slight Defenses, Slight Self Buffs, Some Control
Controllers: Slight Defenses, Some Ranged Damage
Defenders: Slight Defenses, Some Self-buffs
Scrapper: Some Ranged, Some Self-buff
Tanker: Some Ranged, Some Crowd Control
So with that in mind, a Tanker who follows Sister Psyche as a Patron would develop some Psychic ranged attacks or crowd control effects. Perhaps a PBAoE immobilize or stun power? Or a single target TK shove?
Patron Power Pools also typically grant a Pet. Whether it's a Mu Mystic or a Fortunata, or a coralax. Thus the Paragon Power Pools should also grant a pet option to most classes. To maintain Parity I'd suggest that Controllers not be offered a pet power, as they, like masterminds, already have them.
Numina is the polar opposite of Ghost Widow, in my mind. Her magic would be rather similar in it's style, in my opinion. Perhaps even Emulating it with alternate animations for the poers themselves. Rings as opposed to tendrils, for example.
Psyche is fundamentally Mako's opposite, being a mutant. So powers similar in animation and almost identical in purpose would be advised.
Synapse and Sirocco are almost identical in their powers over lightning. Again, change up the colors and animations and you're golden.
Meanwhile Positron and Black Scorpion are both (well... WERE) attatched to their powersuits and rely on technology to gran them their powers. Perhaps Positron could supply those who choose him as a patron with a multiple-purpose tool (LASER WEB GRENADE POISON FLINGING MACE!!!)
So... Really... With just some animation changes and a bit of story-writing we could HAVE Patron Pools heroside and Ancillary pools Villainside without too much hassle...
I was going to sit here and write out alternate pools but... Really... Why bother? Just port over the APPs with updated graphics (altered in some cases like red lightning) and port over the Patron Pools with new colors and a different set of patrons.
-Rachel-
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If anything Posi's latest post sums that up nicely.
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Sure it does, except for the fact that Posi's statement has NOTHING to do with the subject matter of the discussion in this thread.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
OK so full set proliferation is a big no, but is there any major reason that:
Blasters can't have Defender Psi Mastery (With Confuse in place of WoC)
Tankers can't have Scrapper Dark Mastery
Scrappers can't have Tanker Pyre Mastery
Defenders can't have Blaster Ice Mastery (With Shiver in place of Snow Storm)
Controllers can't have...err...they already have Fire Mastery.
Yes, this leave the naughty and epic people out in the cold, but that's not a good reason never to give appropriate choices to the ATs that got proliferated set in I12, but still await thematic epic choices.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.