To fly or not to fly?
By
Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2009-05-05 04:14 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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poor man's flight with hoover
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Not picking, just finding this image very amusing. 
Full jetpack - was it mostly red, some white and blue? If so, that's from the game time card. if it's white/silver-ish with "wings," it's from the lvl 5-10 Mayhem or Safeguard mission. If it's gold and villainside, (which, obviously, as a controller you didn't see,) it's from one of Marshal Brass's missions to steal a jetpack.
Regardless, they all run out - the game time card one at 30 days, the others in 2 hours of use. None of them are crafted items.
Hurdle does not affect hover. Swift does. If you're talking "Superspeed" for speed, it won't affect Hover. Some people *do* slot Swift for fly speed (x3) and add some to Hover, others just go with Fly.
Looking at the build... you've already got three power pools started, all three of which have travel powers in them. >.< What's your concept for the character? As Illusion, at 18 - grab phantom army.
As for crafting - http://www.paragonwiki.com - bookmark that just for general use. Don't worry about set IOs yet. Common IOs? Level 15 common IOs (damage, acc, etc.) are somewhat better than DOs. At 25, they're slightly weaker than even-level SOs, at 30, they're a bit stronger. Unlike regular enhancements, they never expire.
More stuff:
Note that once you hit level 10, you can start a second build (and switch between them every 15 minutes.) You could, for instance, set up a solo build (which I tend to do with Empathy, since solo I don't need Fortitude, Heal Other, etc. - it frees up some power choices) and a group build (with heavier emphasis on Empathy, Group Invis instead of Superior or however you want to go.)
They don't share enhancements, of course.
If you go to the university in Steel Canyon, find the dean - he should be in your contact list, probably under "Active contacts" - and run his mission. You'll go between multiple contacts, all in the same building. Read the info they give, it's a decent overview of inventions. And you'll end up with a crafted IO (common - damage, acc, or recharge rate, level 15, 20, or 25) at the end of it.
I would recommend one full travel pool. It is possible that you were in the game before respecifications (or "respecs"). You can rechoose your powers with a respec, which can be gotten in a wide variety of ways:
1) You may have a "freespec" - they give them out every few issues when they've made a significant change to the way powers work. I don't know if you have to be subscribed to get them or not.
2) If you do a "respec trial" (level 24 minimum) you can get up to 3 (one at 24+, one at 34+, one at 44+).
3) If you've been a subscribed member for a certain length of time you get one or more respecs on every character as a veteran reward. I think it's nine months or a year for the first one.
4) There is a "respec recipe" that drops off critters, and that people sell on Wentworth's, which you can use to get a respec. They cost millions and millions, last I looked, but a million ain't what it used to be.
5) You can buy respecs with real actual money from the online store. I believe nobody should need this; if you get this far, give me your global name and what server you play on, and I will buy you a respec recipe with inf.
Also, as mentioned, you have a second build that you can rebuild with and avoid the whole problem.
There've been a lot of big changes to the game, indeed. When you get into your 20's, learn about enhancement diversification.
edited to finish that last senten
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
ROFL I just saw my typo. Yea its funny. Flying vacuum cleaner indeed
Thanks for the feedback. Lots to absorb it seems.
If I do a second power build setup now do I to pick all 18 levels for it or do I restart at level 1 and have to xp up on it?
This char was started to be a group friendly controller but I also like to solo. I picked up the tp line just for recall friend. I find it great help in many groups to be able to pull in stragglers. I only got speed for hasten. Was that a mistake?
Is phantom army a better choice than say flash? I realize this probably should be in the controller forum but since you brought it up.
Also I though stamina was usually considered a must? Perhaps for my solo build then?
Ok been a LONG time I recognize IO and DO but now can't remember what they stand for! So sort of enhancement item?
Thanks for the wiki link!
For your second build you don't need to get the XP. It "levels" like you're starting at level 1, but you can go to the trainer, switch to second build, and train up 17 times in a row.
Abbreviations:
TO= Training Origin enhancement- anyone can use.
DO = Dual Origin. You can use natural/magic or natural/tech (I think those are the combos).
SO = Single Origin. You can only use Natural SO's, which are very rare below level 25.
From that, people renamed the new things as they came out.
HO= "hamidon origin" (level 47+ only)
IO= "Invention Origin" - the new, expensive, complicated stuff.
Build advice: I'm not much of a "hasten" person myself. I'm in the minority, though, and I don't play Controllers. Stamina, yes, you want. You may not need it by level 20, but you should probably plan for it by level 24 or earlier. Recall Friend- I have this on only one character, who is ... impatient. By level 18 people should be able to get their own damn selves to the mission.
Welcome back to Paragon City.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
Why one full travel pool? Wouldn't say hover/fly be enough? What get aerial superioty etc?
I think I do indeed have a respec availabale. But perhaps I will leave this build alone and try using my new alternate build instead.
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Why one full travel pool? Wouldn't say hover/fly be enough? What get aerial superioty etc?
I think I do indeed have a respec availabale. But perhaps I will leave this build alone and try using my new alternate build instead.
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When someone says "one full travel pool" they generally mean one pre-req (hover) and one actual travel power (fly). You don't need to pick up the other pre-req unless you have a use for it - for example, I have a soloing Corrupter build that has both Hover for mobility in missions and Air Superiority for the attack/knockdown soft control.
Also, IMO, you will want Stamina for your controller. I have an Ill/Emp Troller (now level 28) with 2 builds (solo & team) but both of them have Stamina.
And definitely, at level 18, get your Phantom Army - that's your "bread'n'butter attack". Flash, Blind & Deceive are good, but your PA does loads of damage. Slot it to recharge as fast as you can, so you can have it out as much as possible.
Altoholic - but a Blaster at Heart!
Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon
"You gave us a world where we could fly. I can't thank you enough for that."
I'm another returning player that was gone for a while until Architect lured me back. But even in my brief time playing recently, I have seen a lot of things.
The silver, full-fledged jet pack is called the Raptor Pack. You can get one by completing a protector mission between levels 5-10 from kings row. That is, do police radio missions 3 times in King Row, then see the detective about a special mission, and the pack is yours as soon as the villain is defeated. This pack lasts for 2 hours of use. Since the timer doesn't move when the pack is off, this can last quite a while if you use it sparingly. But once it's used up or if you missed it, you need to be level 40 and spend 10,000 influence to a vendor in the Shadow Shards to get another one.
The PvP area of Siren's Call also has a similar travel power set available (at any level, technically) for 10,000 influence when the Hero side is winning. However they only lasts 30 minutes whether you use the power or not. The arena also has a vendor for temporary travel powers, but only usable within the arena, so that is probably not going to be useful to you.
Otherwise you pretty much have the same choices you did back in the day.
Flight is a lot of fun, but it is still the slowest of the travel powers. In flat areas, you aren't likely to be winning any travel races. The actual flight power will now downgrade itself to a hover whenever you are in combat. So all added up, you might be better off adding two slots to the hover power and three-slotting it for flight speed rather than bothering with the flight power itself. Considering you already have Haste and Recall Friend, you still have options.
Super Speed is really good over anything that's relatively flat. I find myself very frustrated with just Super Speed in Faultline, even though it's a very different zone than it was back in I2. But just about anywhere else, it's one of the quickest ways of getting around town. It's also been really useful in missions as the whole map can be explored relatively safely usually in mere minutes.
Teleport is also another good option. It is really endurance intensive, and actually really hard to use in indoor mission areas. But outdoors there is nothing faster, and it covers all three dimensions of movement. Even unslotted, Hover becomes a good compliment as it allows you to rest and get your bearings, or stay out of reach of most melee users. Keep in mind outside of Architect, just about everything has at least one power that can be used at range against flyers, and there's stuff in the works to add ranged attacks to the melee sets of Architect's custom enemies, so you won't be completely safe. But possibly still safer than you would be on the ground in many cases.
I think that about covers it. Travel powers aren't as necessary as they were in the past. But still good to have. Flight sucks. Speed & Teleport are still king. Am I missing something?
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Flight sucks. Speed & Teleport are still king. Am I missing something?
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Super Jump. Generally considered to be the best compromise between all the travel powers - it's easier to use than Teleport, much faster than Fly, and has the vertical movement that Super Speed is lacking.
Plus, it's a whole lot of fun.
Every travel power sucks. Every travel power is king. It just depends on what you hate and what you don't mind.
Flight: Slow, relatively. (Faster than the old days, though.) Fire and forget. Or fire and chat with friends, recruit for the team, catch up on global channel chat.
Superspeed: Great except for Faultline, Shadow Shard, certain parts of boomtown, Eden, bits of Talos and Founders and ... well, you know the drill. The temp jump pack takes care of most of this problem. Comes with free stealth!
Teleport: Travel as a click power. Monstrously annoying to use for most people. Faster than anything over long distances. Less direct combat use in it's prereq (though if you're going to show up first, might as well Recall Slower Friend.)
SuperJump: There's a learning curve, where you learn to not accidentally jump into big groups of purple-con enemies. There are occasional "missed the jump" or "can't quite get that high" moments of irritation. Other than that it's quite good. I don't like leaving my finger on the spacebar for the WHOLE TIME but I may be a tiny minority there.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
Ah yes, there is Super Jump. My first serious character, a rad/nrg defender got around by super jump very well, and for the most part I really had very little to complain about.
The actual reason I didn't mention it is that "Great Scott" already has the prerequisite powers for three of the travel pools with Recall Friend (Teleport), Hover (Fly), and Haste (Super Speed). To get Super Jump, he is going to need to somehow fit in Combat Jump or Jump Kick, which is not going to happen without a respec or a switch to build 2. His fourth power-pool, Medicine, closed that road as I think 4 power pools is the hard-coded limit.
If you really want my relatively unbiased opinions on the travel pools, here it is.
Flight: Taken by itself and compared to other travel powers specifically for the purpose of traveling around City of Heroes zones to get between missions, Flight sucks. It isn't as slow as it once was, but it is still slow. If you have a teammate with Recall Friend and another travel power (especially the matched one, Teleport) then you can expect that teammate is going to use Recall Friend on you regularly to keep things flowing.
The catch here is that in the context of a situational tactical power, Hover and Group Fly definitely fall in the category of "does not suck." Get yourself a good outdoor map heavy on the melee mobs, start hovering, and the developers find good reason to start adding throwing knives, shuriken, and other projectiles to those same melee heavy mobs, to put it bluntly. But even with the ranged weapons popping up on everything, you are generally much safer staying out of reach of the melee mobs than you are in range of their fists, blades, and clubs. Sure, you can do that with control powers or just running around like a chicken with its head cut off. But Hover is just too convenient in setting up nice situations.
For a character that's not interested in haste or teleport, flight becomes a relatively cheap travel power to get with those side benefits.
Super Speed: It is almost the complete opposite of fly's advantages and disadvantages. It has no vertical movement. So the super speeder generally needs to go well out of their way to find ramps and other means to get around vertical obstacles. But outside of a handful of maps built with lots of vertical challenges, Speeders are generally either the first or second people to arrive at the mission area.
For a mission focused task force, a super speeder with recall friend is a godsend. Within a mission, a good super speeder can map the whole complex, find all the glowies, and get the whole team in the boss room in a matter of minutes, instead of the usual hour or two for the "lol xp" groups it takes to clear every single mobile in a mission. A 14-20 hour task force can be completed in less than half the time like this, depending on the number "defeat all enemy" missions it features.
(Honestly, "lol xp" was the one biggest contributors to my burn-out and quitting the first time around. But that may be a topic for a different post.)
Super Jump: It is in many ways a compromise power. Jump Kick and Whirlwind are generally considered less than useful compared to what you can get from other pools. However, the almost-free defense from Combat Jumping can be quite welcome with certain builds. It is limited what kind of vertical challenges it can handle compared to fly, and it is slower on flat land than super speed. On the positive side, it is much faster than fly on flat land, and can handle vertical challenges much more easily than super-speeders can. Actually, there aren't many obstacles at all that can force a super jumper to go around rather than over, so it is a travel power you can't really go wrong with until you get to the Shadow Shard.
Teleport: For the purpose of actually traveling around between missions, there is nothing better. It is faster than even super speed, and doesn't have any vertical limitations. Once you get to the mission area, Recall Friend helps the rest of your slower team to catch up. Since it's technically an area-targeted click power, you can move even in situations where the opponent has you immobilized. But on the bad side, it sucks endurance like nothing else. You may be arriving first, but you'll be arriving exhausted too. It also becomes very hard to control in confined spaces like most indoor missions.
Quite honestly, Super Jump was my very first power and very enjoyable in the early days. But Teleport was my favorite before Architect came along. The absolutely incredible distance between the Mission Architect contact and the Mission Architect mission entrance has me moving to Super Speeders. Getting around in missions has become more important than getting to missions. I just can't seem to make a 'toon without Haste and Stamina. So Super Speed becomes a cheap travel power, for me at least.
Super Jump is usually my travel power of choice. However, my first and favorite character started out as a super speeder. I was playing with her build one day and found she had some extra slots. I added super jump in on top of super speed.
Is it overkill? Absolutely. Necessary? Not in the slightest. Is it super fun? Oh yes.
... at the very least, she's certainly excessively mobile. (And almost always first to the door!)
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Teleport: Travel as a click power. Monstrously annoying to use for most people. Faster than anything over long distances. Less direct combat use in it's prereq (though if you're going to show up first, might as well Recall Slower Friend.)
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Just sort of an aside:
Nuts to the mundanes. My Boost Range+Range-enhanced Teleporting Blaster has Recall Friend and AtT--I refuse to port your lazy butt across the Shadow Shard ever again if you have yet to move by the time I get there. LEARN THE PATHS. If my travel power-less Stone Tank can get across the Shard faster than you, you're not trying hard enough (granted, the meaning of "travel power-less" is up for grabs with all the bonuses that toon is sporting).
Also applies to non-Shard cases.
</rant>
Blue: ~Knockback Squad on Guardian~
Red: ~Undoing of Virtue on [3 guesses]~
I ended up paying the $5 for the temp 30 day jetpack. For my new low level controller char this is a really big boon and well worth it to me!
Personally I usually always take fly. It may not be the quickest, but I find it very user friendly and you can even alt tab and leave yourself on auto-fly.
Plus if you need to go afk, you can just fly up high and you will be safe. ;-)
Teleport is very fiddly at a time when I prefer to use my travel-time to do other things and not have to focus so much.
Super Speed is fast but you can rarely take the most direct route.
Super Jump is the same as teleport, you have to hold down space bar to travel.
For me, fly is rarely not the best!
Personally, I have always recommended that you get Flying for at least one character so you can experience the absolute freedom of it. Of course, with jetpacks now you can try that without even having to take Flying. Hover isn't quite the same, though, even slotted for speed, you don't get that feeling of being able to go anywhere you want, in the air, over any obstacles, or anywhere.
You've got to do things like fly up to the blimp in Atlas Park, and the top of the buildings in Steel Canyon. Just to be there.
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Teleport: Travel as a click power. Monstrously annoying to use for most people. Faster than anything over long distances. Less direct combat use in it's prereq (though if you're going to show up first, might as well Recall Slower Friend.)
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Just sort of an aside:
Nuts to the mundanes. My Boost Range+Range-enhanced Teleporting Blaster has Recall Friend and AtT--I refuse to port your lazy butt across the Shadow Shard ever again if you have yet to move by the time I get there. LEARN THE PATHS. If my travel power-less Stone Tank can get across the Shard faster than you, you're not trying hard enough (granted, the meaning of "travel power-less" is up for grabs with all the bonuses that toon is sporting).
Also applies to non-Shard cases.
</rant>
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Very much a personal taste thing. I built that character to level fast. (It was, like, issue 4 or 5 and my first 50 took me 563 hours. That is not a typo, that's how long it used to take people to get to 50. Fast people could do it in, like, 300. ) Force Fields so I can get on higher-level teams and contribute (later discovery: I can fill teams with unkillable blasters and melt holes in the map), teleport for max-speed movement and Recall Friend so once the slow loaders get in zone I can drag 'em to the mission door and start already.
Out of 30+ characters, I have one or two with Recall Slower Friend. It's not something I do unless I feel like it.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
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Teleport: Travel as a click power. Monstrously annoying to use for most people. Faster than anything over long distances. Less direct combat use in it's prereq (though if you're going to show up first, might as well Recall Slower Friend.)
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Just sort of an aside:
Nuts to the mundanes. My Boost Range+Range-enhanced Teleporting Blaster has Recall Friend and AtT--I refuse to port your lazy butt across the Shadow Shard ever again if you have yet to move by the time I get there. LEARN THE PATHS. If my travel power-less Stone Tank can get across the Shard faster than you, you're not trying hard enough (granted, the meaning of "travel power-less" is up for grabs with all the bonuses that toon is sporting).
Also applies to non-Shard cases.
</rant>
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Very much a personal taste thing. I built that character to level fast. (It was, like, issue 4 or 5 and my first 50 took me 563 hours. That is not a typo, that's how long it used to take people to get to 50. Fast people could do it in, like, 300. ) Force Fields so I can get on higher-level teams and contribute (later discovery: I can fill teams with unkillable blasters and melt holes in the map), teleport for max-speed movement and Recall Friend so once the slow loaders get in zone I can drag 'em to the mission door and start already.
Out of 30+ characters, I have one or two with Recall Slower Friend. It's not something I do unless I feel like it.
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My Blaster took like 550 hours, 6 months, and Exalted to get to 50. My Brute took around 350 hours.
Deamus the Fallen - 50 DM/EA Brute - Lib
Dragos Bahtiam - 50 Fire/Ice Blaster - Lib
/facepalm - Apply Directly to the Forehead!
Formally Dragos_Bahtiam - Abbreviate to DSL - Warning, may contain sarcasm
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.
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Other than concept, I rarely select Fly as a travel power. No real reason behind it, I just don't. :shrugs:
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SuperJump: There's a learning curve, where you learn to not accidentally jump into big groups of purple-con enemies. There are occasional "missed the jump" or "can't quite get that high" moments of irritation. Other than that it's quite good. I don't like leaving my finger on the spacebar for the WHOLE TIME but I may be a tiny minority there.
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You can use "/up 1" to start auto-jumping and "/up 0" to stop auto-jumping. Saves some wear and tear on the space bar.
(I still prefer flight myself, though.)
There is actually a way to get a 'permanent' jet pack (fly). You have to get the Dimensional Explorer Badge, or for villains, Arachnos Official Badge acquired by being logged out for so many hours in the Shadow Shard or Grandville. It has a maximum of 30 minutes of fuel, which can only be refueled by spending more time logged out in Shadow Shard or Grandville. It's fairly easy to maintain so long as you remember to log out in those zones, and will satisfy most your verticle movement needs.
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my first 50 took me 563 hours
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200 or so for mine. Granted, that was the first time I ever built a toon with a team in mind (Ice/SS, En/En Blaster, and FF/Elec Defender--hello holy trinity) that actually played with the team regularly.
Heh, my namesake DM/Regen has yet to reach 50 but I'm guessing it's sitting around 5-600 hours. I did a lot of goofing around on that toon, particularly when I hit the (then) cap of 40 and got bored of herding an entire map with IH going, Soul Draining 100+ targets then killing them all with a single Shadow Maul.
Blue: ~Knockback Squad on Guardian~
Red: ~Undoing of Virtue on [3 guesses]~
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There is actually a way to get a 'permanent' jet pack (fly). You have to get the Dimensional Explorer Badge, or for villains, Arachnos Official Badge acquired by being logged out for so many hours in the Shadow Shard or Grandville. It has a maximum of 30 minutes of fuel, which can only be refueled by spending more time logged out in Shadow Shard or Grandville. It's fairly easy to maintain so long as you remember to log out in those zones, and will satisfy most your verticle movement needs.
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What level can you get this at?
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There is actually a way to get a 'permanent' jet pack (fly). You have to get the Dimensional Explorer Badge, or for villains, Arachnos Official Badge acquired by being logged out for so many hours in the Shadow Shard or Grandville. It has a maximum of 30 minutes of fuel, which can only be refueled by spending more time logged out in Shadow Shard or Grandville. It's fairly easy to maintain so long as you remember to log out in those zones, and will satisfy most your verticle movement needs.
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What level can you get this at?
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For Heroes, once you reach Security Level 40. For Villains, the moment you can reach Grandville without Dying.
Of course, you can simply purchase a second Raptor Pack (same temp power as the AP Safeguard/Mayhem) from the same zones.
Deamus the Fallen - 50 DM/EA Brute - Lib
Dragos Bahtiam - 50 Fire/Ice Blaster - Lib
/facepalm - Apply Directly to the Forehead!
Formally Dragos_Bahtiam - Abbreviate to DSL - Warning, may contain sarcasm
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.
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One thing I rarely see mentioned about Fly and Hover is that you do not suffer knockback while flying. You get knocked for a loop, but the recovery from it is faster than if you hit the ground, bounce, and have to stand back up. There is also no risk of getting blown backward into another group of enemies.
Teleport's sometime-advantage is that there is nothing that can cancel it, unlike the other travel powers. It's possible to teleport out of quicksand, ice slick, earthquake, etc, but not jump or fly. I think you can also teleport while immobilized (or at least enemies can).
My advice to all new Defenders, Controllers, and Blasters is always to start the character with Fly, and then to branch from there once they feel comfortable. Fly has such huge advantages for a squishy character in enabling them to get off the ground away from melee. The benefits of being able to get a clear view of the battlefield can't be overstressed either.
I am a returning player. I played about 6 months at launch and then EQ2 came out and I've not really been back. The 5th year anniversary week got me to try the game again and I resubscribed for a month. Definetly seeing lots of changes for the positive!
One of my chars was a 16th level natural controller with empathy and Illusion control. I played him up to 18
and was going to get flight but stopped. I have long since lost my character planning for him and started play
with the char builder again.
Current build below (note actual laevels on some this are probably wrong but thats the powersets)
---------------------------------------------
Name: Great Scott
Level: 50
Archetype: Controller
Primary: Illusion Control
Secondary: Empathy
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Blind==> Empty(1)
01) --> Healing Aura==> Empty(1)
02) --> Spectral Wounds==> Empty(2)
04) --> Deceive==> Empty(4)
06) --> Recall Friend==> Empty(6)
08) --> Superior Invisibility==> Empty(8)
10) --> Hover==> Empty(10)
12) --> Absorb Pain==> Empty(12)
14) --> Heal Other==> Empty(14)
16) --> Hasten==> Empty(16)
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Sprint==> Empty(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Empty(1)
01) --> Containment==> Empty(1)
02) --> Rest==> Empty(2)
---------------------------------------------
Ok like I said I was going to get flight but then I picked up the good/evil expansion jump booster and found I
had a poor man's flight with hoover. Also I found I could normally jump and use hover which I don't remember
being in ther 4 years ago. My main reason for flight was simply to get around! This seems like a good way to
go.
I also saw someone with a cool looking full jetpack. I should have /t them but I didn't. What is that? Is it
the 30 day temp pack you can buy (seems waste) or something else?
Anyways what are my options?
Also on my build I am thinking I should start my fitness line so I can get stamina at 22. Does that make sense
still in the current game? Also should I get speed or hurtle? It would seem hurtle would help my poor man's
hover fllight but perhaps speed would make my hover move faster? Or is this just the wrong way to go?
I also don't understand the crafting system yet and need to read up on it. So many changes! Was that jetpack a craft item perhaps?
All comments appreciated!