Purchase Common Salvage: (type) w/ AE tickets

For, say, 15 tickets.

It would fix the current market issues everyone's complaining about, which only exist in the first place because people are bad at math.

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at 8 per roll, and 6 in the pool, the minimum sensible price would be at the 50:50 likelihood point of 24.

Make em 30 and its possible.

15 is simply too cheap.

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@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617

It's common salvage. If you're doing any real amount of crafting or selling, you're statistically much better off taking the random roll, even if it's only about twice as much per item to pick what you want.

Make it too expensive and I don't think it would have the effect on the markets and people's paranoia levels I'm hoping for. I'm not sure exactly how much "too expensive" is, but... again, common. Is it really that bad if people generate 60 alchemical silvers at 15 a pop than instead of ~19 alchemical silvers and 93 other pieces of common salvage at 8 a pop?

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Don't care either way - I want to say they had it where it was possible to purchase common salvage in closed beta for a bit and removed it, but my recollection may be inaccurate there.

If someone else *does* remember that, I'd say that could be taken as proof that the idea, at least near-term, has been considered and rejected already. If someone else doesn't, I'd say that could be taken as proof that my memory is faulty on the matter.

Of course, with:
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Is it really that bad if people generate 60 alchemical silvers at 15 a pop than instead of ~19 alchemical silvers and 93 other pieces of common salvage at 8 a pop?


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... well... they were, as I recall, hoping to minimize impact on the market, so I'd have to say that yes, it would be "worse" overall. The 93 (let's assume you use some, store a bit, and dump the rest - 65 sound fair?) pieces you wouldn't use would be what would help feed the market.

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Yeah, but very few people are actually rolling for common salvage, despite the enormous profit margin on it right now. This may be in part because no one can actually store 118 pieces of salvage (something that keeps me from rolling enormous amounts of common salvage instead of reselling moderate amounts of uncommon)... or it may just be because people demand literally instant gratification whenever possible.

So if people can buy up whichever salvage they want directly, they might start buying up dozens of whatever's the most valuable to sell.

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It's common salvage. If you're doing any real amount of crafting or selling, you're statistically much better off taking the random roll, even if it's only about twice as much per item to pick what you want.

Make it too expensive and I don't think it would have the effect on the markets and people's paranoia levels I'm hoping for. I'm not sure exactly how much "too expensive" is, but... again, common. Is it really that bad if people generate 60 alchemical silvers at 15 a pop than instead of ~19 alchemical silvers and 93 other pieces of common salvage at 8 a pop?

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Actually if people are looking for specific salvage, yes it is.

The whole common random roll is to keep the market supplied roughly in even amounts at each tier. If you thought prices were crazy now, then having cheap specific choices would make things many times worse.

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@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617

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It's common salvage. If you're doing any real amount of crafting or selling, you're statistically much better off taking the random roll, even if it's only about twice as much per item to pick what you want.

Make it too expensive and I don't think it would have the effect on the markets and people's paranoia levels I'm hoping for. I'm not sure exactly how much "too expensive" is, but... again, common. Is it really that bad if people generate 60 alchemical silvers at 15 a pop than instead of ~19 alchemical silvers and 93 other pieces of common salvage at 8 a pop?

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Actually if people are looking for specific salvage, yes it is.

The whole common random roll is to keep the market supplied roughly in even amounts at each tier. If you thought prices were crazy now, then having cheap specific choices would make things many times worse.

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This. Many times over.

4000 or so Luck Charms being bid on, a bit over 2000 available - at higher prices than most bids.

Now, my characters, while not built to be farmers, probably could be reasonably good at it. (Fire/SS tank, Fire/Storm controller, etc.) If I made 6000 tickets in a run, which I hear is "low," I'm capped after two runs. 9999 tickets - let's just make it 9990 to get rid of that last 9.

At 15 a pop? 666 Alchemical Silvers for what's probably less than an hour's work. Put them all up at 6 inf a piece. As they sell, put up another batch of ten, and another, and another.

Go do it again. And again. Three hours, say (though I can't see myself doing something that tedious that often) - bringing in someone else from my second account, and using their tickets as well - I could probably singlehandedly put a massive dent in the demand for luck charms and fill the majority of outstanding orders.

Say, 45 minutes for the two runs. 15 for all the purchasing and running back and forth. In three hours, one character with those times would have put up nearly 2000 luck charms (and don't forget... I'm mentioning bringing in a second character. Little time to level so they can carry enough salvage, 3500 would not be unlikely.) At some point we hit very old bids for 1, 2, 3 inf - why not wipe those out, too, so what if I'm at a loss at that point. Another hour and all orders are filled, and there's several thousand in surplus.

The next day? Alchemical silvers. Or whatever else has some good demand and a big bid/supply gap. Throw in a game time card, I could probably start affecting three in demand pieces of common salvage daily.

The marketeers say it's impossible for one person to corner the market - but give me an hour a day with the rates you're suggesting, and I darn well could. Even doubling it doesn't take that much. And I'm not a farmer. Someone with a farm-tweaked character could probably be even *more* efficient, emptying the market and setting their own prices.

Right now, yeah, I can keep rolling for salvage, and maybe get 10, 20 luck charms out of it - but I also have a bunch of other salvage to feed the market, some of which will sell, some of which won't, which will also slow me down because I won't have the spots to KEEP selling it.

(Then again... I tend to use my salvage, however it's acquired, to make IOs for myself and my SG. *shrug*)

For a completely casual player, someone who maybe runs an arc here or there in between other arcs - sure, picking salvage would work. But it's horribly open to exploitation the way you have it laid out.

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What I don't understand is why they allow rare and uncommon salvage to be purchased specifically, but common salvage is a roll. If the intent was to make common salvage the most expensive as far as price goes, this makes sense, but when I think "rare", I figure this is something that should be pricey- particularly when compared to "common" salvage. Well, unless we're talking about a steak.

Wouldn't it make more sense to have common salvage something you can buy specifically, and the rare salvage to be something which must be rolled for?

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My story arcs: #2370- Noah Reborn, #18672- The Clockwork War, #31490- Easy Money

Sartre once said, "Hell is other people." What does that make an MMO?

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For, say, 15 tickets.

It would fix the current market issues everyone's complaining about, which only exist in the first place because people are bad at math.

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This was brought on by the greedy people to begin with, and it's biting them in the rear, thanks to the devs. It's what they deserve, their uber loot is worthless and their powers taken from them from strangling the market.

I think it's fitting. Let them wiggle. UP yourprices on all common salvage >

-C.A.

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What I don't understand is why they allow rare and uncommon salvage to be purchased specifically, but common salvage is a roll. If the intent was to make common salvage the most expensive as far as price goes, this makes sense, but when I think "rare", I figure this is something that should be pricey- particularly when compared to "common" salvage. Well, unless we're talking about a steak.

Wouldn't it make more sense to have common salvage something you can buy specifically, and the rare salvage to be something which must be rolled for?

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I'd guess, right offhand, the roll for common salvage is:
(a) so it simulates (somewhat) regular mission drops, and
(b) like regular mission drops, feeds the market (and storage bins.)

Uncommons... just aren't used as much, or really have quite so big an impact marketwise. And rares are pricey.

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What I don't understand is why they allow rare and uncommon salvage to be purchased specifically, but common salvage is a roll. If the intent was to make common salvage the most expensive as far as price goes, this makes sense, but when I think "rare", I figure this is something that should be pricey- particularly when compared to "common" salvage. Well, unless we're talking about a steak.

Wouldn't it make more sense to have common salvage something you can buy specifically, and the rare salvage to be something which must be rolled for?

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I'd guess, right offhand, the roll for common salvage is:
(a) so it simulates (somewhat) regular mission drops, and
(b) like regular mission drops, feeds the market (and storage bins.)

Uncommons... just aren't used as much, or really have quite so big an impact marketwise. And rares are pricey.

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Not anymore.

Many uncommons are way up so now it is worth taking them to the market. Some are still below vendor prices but many are 100k or more.

I was buying Deific Weapons for 300-400k now instead of 3-4M.

I'm kind of enjoying the current state of the markets as a roller coaster ride but since the markets were always a place I went to sell my excesses and buy what I lacked not a place to game inf my opinion on it likely differs from many pro-market people.

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total kick to the gut

This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.

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It's common salvage. If you're doing any real amount of crafting or selling, you're statistically much better off taking the random roll, even if it's only about twice as much per item to pick what you want.

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Which is probably why we have things as they are. Should stable prices for Commons ever crack a million, we can rethink the issue. I'm still holding out for those particular AEdiots driving up the prices to get it and start rolling.

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[Snipped Bill's huge Alchemical Silver example.

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But you forget something here. What we're seeing right now is a bloated demand because there is more demand than supply. Assuming people are slowly figuring out to roll for Commons (which is not a given, granted), you'd have a few good days, and then you'd have saturated the bloated market. You'd still be making money afterwards, but not as much.

High supply usually kills prices.


Also, for the record: Luckily, most sellers seem to still be reasonable people. I routinely place batch orders for Commons for 1k a pop and they fill out while I'm off doing something else. It's really just the buyers who've gone insane.

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[ QUOTE ]
What I don't understand is why they allow rare and uncommon salvage to be purchased specifically, but common salvage is a roll. If the intent was to make common salvage the most expensive as far as price goes, this makes sense, but when I think "rare", I figure this is something that should be pricey- particularly when compared to "common" salvage. Well, unless we're talking about a steak.

Wouldn't it make more sense to have common salvage something you can buy specifically, and the rare salvage to be something which must be rolled for?

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IMO, there are more uses for Common Salvage. They're also used in Common IOs for one (and yes, there still IS a market for certain Common IOs) and go into all varieties of Uncommon and Rare IOs. Uncommons are what? 1 per Uncommon IO and 1-2 per Rare IO? And then you have 1 Rare per Rare IO while 3+ Commons go into each of these?

Considering that even with AE Tickets, Rare IO Recipes are still not the norm, it's easier to get Rare and even Uncommon drops that will be entirely useless to you for a good bit, clogging up all your storage options. With the amount of Commons needed across various Recipes that's far less likely I'd argue.

Never mind that having a price for buying Rares puts a soft cap on Market prices. The real genius here though is that you can't set an entirely firm Ticket to Inf conversion rate. That will depend on each player themselves and thereby introduces an organic element. Every player has their point where they say '[censored] it, I'll just buy it with Tickets', different for everyone. Vendors plain can't speculate on demand vs. supply an human greed and stupidity anymore. Soft capped prices as it were.

Really, the more I see and do, the better I think this is for the Market as a whole.

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The marketeers say it's impossible for one person to corner the market - but give me an hour a day with the rates you're suggesting, and I darn well could. Even doubling it doesn't take that much. And I'm not a farmer. Someone with a farm-tweaked character could probably be even *more* efficient, emptying the market and setting their own prices.

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If you drive up prices on an item, everyone who notices will start selling that item. You'd corner it for, oh, maybe half a day, as long as you didn't try to do it at primetime. That's why they say it's impossible for one person to corner the market -- anything you can do, a hundred others can do as well, many of them probably more efficiently.

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The marketeers say it's impossible for one person to corner the market - but give me an hour a day with the rates you're suggesting, and I darn well could. Even doubling it doesn't take that much. And I'm not a farmer. Someone with a farm-tweaked character could probably be even *more* efficient, emptying the market and setting their own prices.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you drive up prices on an item, everyone who notices will start selling that item. You'd corner it for, oh, maybe half a day, as long as you didn't try to do it at primetime. That's why they say it's impossible for one person to corner the market -- anything you can do, a hundred others can do as well, many of them probably more efficiently.

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I wouldn't drive *up* prices. People would get tired of that. I sell everything at 6 inf.

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So all someone has to do is set up 5-10 bids at 10 inf, buy you out, and resell all your stuff for a 50x profit? ;p Don't think you'll be cornering the market much.

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So all someone has to do is set up 5-10 bids at 10 inf, buy you out, and resell all your stuff for a 50x profit? ;p Don't think you'll be cornering the market much.

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With the amount (mentioned earlier) that I could put in the market at your price point? Why would anyone bid at *their* 50k when they can get much cheaper orders filled?

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People want instant gratification. It's the same reason prices always get jacked up in the market.

Also, 10 * 50 != 50K.

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I'm quoting several different people in this post.

Memphis_Bill:
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Don't care either way - I want to say they had it where it was possible to purchase common salvage in closed beta for a bit and removed it, but my recollection may be inaccurate there.

If someone else *does* remember that, I'd say that could be taken as proof that the idea, at least near-term, has been considered and rejected already. If someone else doesn't, I'd say that could be taken as proof that my memory is faulty on the matter.


[/ QUOTE ] You could buy specific common salvage when I first got into closed beta(I was in the second wave I think). I believe it was 8 tickets for the salvage of your choice.

CaptainAmazing when you say this:
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This was brought on by the greedy people to begin with, and it's biting them in the rear, thanks to the devs. It's what they deserve, their uber loot is worthless and their powers taken from them from strangling the market.

I think it's fitting. Let them wiggle. UP yourprices on all common salvage >

-C.A.

[/ QUOTE ] What the hell are you talking about?

Eisegen
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Which is probably why we have things as they are. Should stable prices for Commons ever crack a million, we can rethink the issue.

[/ QUOTE ] Actually I don't think we should rethink the issue no matter how expensive it gets. Common salvage is readily available to anybody that wants it. If somebody doesn't like paying 100k for common salvage then using arch tickets or fighting enemies in the proper range will get it for them easily.

So to the OP's suggestion, /unsigned. There is not a problem with common salvage on the market. People that are complaining have ways to get what they want at reasonable prices(or free!).

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