Information, Continuity & Comprehension
By
Aggelakis,
Posted on: 2009-04-30 07:55 in Suggestions and Ideas
It's been brought up before, as well.
And not just that, as far as consistency. Go look up... I believe it's Positron's Blast. Find a bunch of recipes? See any enhancements?
Why are there no enhancements? Because the enhancements get made as Positrons Blast. No apostrophe. (I believe it's Posi's.) Similarly, some sets will list the recipe as Acc/Dam with the resulting IO as Accuracy/Damage, or even more fun, Damage/Accuracy.
It's not EVERY set, IO, or enhancement - but there are quite a few. Is "Snare" a slow or an immobilize? I mean, if something's snared, it can't move, right, so it sounds like an immobilize... but it's a snare. Disorient and Stunned are another example. Same thing, different name.
I agree, getting some people just in to change all of this - purely text, as it doesn't (ok, shouldn't, but who knows...) affect powers - would be very nice.
Hey, hire some temps to locate them all, come up with what they should read, and let them submit the changes to review. Heck, I'd do it if I could work remotely. >.>
the Snare one drives me nuts. It seems almost misanthropic to slap a whole new term on something that has been known as "Immobilize" from day 1. Was this some disgruntled employee's subtle last laugh on his last day of work?
Confuse/Disorient/Stun is another one. I know Disorient = Stun, but by definition, something that is disorienting is usually more confusing than stunning.
And as much as I can appreciate the cute names for SOs, the charm wears off fast. Trying to distill meaning from it is a chore when you're trying to slot up and get back to your team. Scanning the list for that right shade of teal for the enhancement you want is also a lousy way to organize information.
To not sounds like a complete grump, I actually love how the vendor system at AE sells enhancements. It's very easy to zero in on exactly what you want (so long as it's not an End Mod enhancement ;-P)
Stay Gold, Paragon. Stay Gold.
Nolite te bastardes carborundorum.
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the Snare one drives me nuts. It seems almost misanthropic to slap a whole new term on something that has been known as "Immobilize" from day 1. Was this some disgruntled employee's subtle last laugh on his last day of work?
[/ QUOTE ]Snare is actually another name for slow, not immobilize. :x Immob is only immob.
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the Snare one drives me nuts. It seems almost misanthropic to slap a whole new term on something that has been known as "Immobilize" from day 1. Was this some disgruntled employee's subtle last laugh on his last day of work?
[/ QUOTE ]Snare is actually another name for slow, not immobilize. :x Immob is only immob.
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*nod* I just looked at what I typed and said a snare sounds like an immob, but "it's a snare." I was thinking "it's a slow," really... apparently the brain-fingers-keyboard path hit a snare. Or a slow. Maybe an immob. Or a confuse.
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Is "Snare" a slow or an immobilize? I mean, if something's snared, it can't move, right, so it sounds like an immobilize... but it's a slow.
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Since I tend to play many cold/ice based characters, this one bugs the heck out of me. My Blaster, Controller, Tanker and Dominator have many Slows and an Immobilize or two. Even after a year I have to think for a minute when I look at Snare Enhancements, "Immobilize or Slow, Slow or Immobilize...which one was it again?" I'll take a moment to mention Castle in the hopes that his physic powers pick up this Jedi mind trick. 
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From what I understand, "snare" refers to movement slow, whereas "slow" refers to recharge slow, or powers which do both, or at least that was the original intent. I'll admit that it hasn't really been applied consistently, even as early as release.
Others that really annoy me is "Air-Burst", which when crafted become "Air Burst".
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For example, a certain power lists a "5% STRENGTH against attacks." What is "strength"? Does it make my character STRONGER (ie. do more damage?) No it means increased DEFENSE. Call it DEFENSE, not STRENGTH. Never call it anything BUT defense.
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Arcanaville can explain it better, but Strength is an Aspect of the Defense Attributes. Increasing Defense Strength makes you better at defense, it increases your Defense powers.
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Another example- I was shopping for Endurance Modification enhancements. That's a good name for them. They help you recover endurance, but they also help endurance-draining powers perform better. After much searching, I finally found them, under "RECOVERY." Some vendors sell them as "ENDURANCE MODIFICATION', others as "RECOVERY". The same exact enhancement. Same origin and everything.
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Technically, those enhancements have two properties. They have a buff the Endurance Strength (there is that Aspect again) wich governs End Drains and Refills. They also buff Recovery Strength, which governs, well, recovery.
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It's just sloppy and amateurish, really. It hurts the flow of game and makes it much much harder for new players to learn the game. I remember when i first started playing, it took me a little what to grasp the difference between Damage Resistance and Defense. How much harder must it be for new players when the game keeps mixing up the terms?
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This I agree with. Stun or Disorient, not both. Get rid of all mentions of Snare and use Recharge Slow, Movement Slow, -Fly, and -Jump independently.
Sounds like the End Mod thing is a leftover from when they collapsed Recovery and End Drain enhancements into Endurance Modification.
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Another example- I was shopping for Endurance Modification enhancements. That's a good name for them. They help you recover endurance, but they also help endurance-draining powers perform better. After much searching, I finally found them, under "RECOVERY." Some vendors sell them as "ENDURANCE MODIFICATION', others as "RECOVERY". The same exact enhancement. Same origin and everything.
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Technically, those enhancements have two properties. They have a buff the Endurance Strength (there is that Aspect again) wich governs End Drains and Refills. They also buff Recovery Strength, which governs, well, recovery.
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Isn't that what I said?
Stay Gold, Paragon. Stay Gold.
Nolite te bastardes carborundorum.
Found another one-
Damage Resistance
aka
Resist Damage
aka
Resistance Buff
Stop letting interns and co-ops write copy!
Stay Gold, Paragon. Stay Gold.
Nolite te bastardes carborundorum.
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For example, a certain power lists a "5% STRENGTH against attacks." What is "strength"? Does it make my character STRONGER (ie. do more damage?) No it means increased DEFENSE. Call it DEFENSE, not STRENGTH. Never call it anything BUT defense.
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Arcanaville can explain it better, but Strength is an Aspect of the Defense Attributes. Increasing Defense Strength makes you better at defense, it increases your Defense powers.
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Yeah, it's basically a bit of internal variable speak spilling over into the in-game text. Thankfully, they tend to be color-coded, so it's easy to figure out what they do (the colors follow enhancement coloring, so red for damage, purple for defense, etc.).
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It's just sloppy and amateurish, really. It hurts the flow of game and makes it much much harder for new players to learn the game. I remember when i first started playing, it took me a little what to grasp the difference between Damage Resistance and Defense. How much harder must it be for new players when the game keeps mixing up the terms?
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That I'll agree with. It would be nice to have somewhere easily accessible (preferably in the tutorial) giving a quick run-down of the basic terminology. Granted, first we need a standardized vocabulary.
We'll always have Paragon.
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For example, a certain power lists a "5% STRENGTH against attacks." What is "strength"? Does it make my character STRONGER (ie. do more damage?) No it means increased DEFENSE. Call it DEFENSE, not STRENGTH. Never call it anything BUT defense.
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There's a fundamental difference between a power that offers 5% smashing defense, and 5% smashing defense strength. The first increases your defense to that attack type by 5 percentage points. The second increases your ability to use powers that offer defense against that attack type: it increases your defensive powers by 5%.
In other words, if you have a power that offers 20% defense to smashing_attack, and you get another power that offers 5% defense to smashing_attack, your total defense is 25%. If on the other hand the second power offered 5% strength to smashing_attack, then in this case (with a lot of caveats I'm skipping for simplicity purposes) your total defense would be 21% (20 * 1.05).
List the power being referenced above and I'll see if its using the terminology correctly or not.
There's a lot of crazy terminology that isn't proper, I'll grant that. But in many cases the difference in terminology signals a real distinction.
In your example, such a power *does* make you stronger. It makes your ability to use defensive powers themselves stronger. This distinction occurs many times in the game: there's a huge difference between movement increase (increasing your base movement velocity) and movement strength increase (increasing the value of your movement buffing powers) for example.
Basically: some things buff you. Some things buff your powers that buff you. That's the oversimplified distinction between buffing Strength and buffing Attributes directly.
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For example, a certain power lists a "5% STRENGTH against attacks." What is "strength"? Does it make my character STRONGER (ie. do more damage?) No it means increased DEFENSE. Call it DEFENSE, not STRENGTH. Never call it anything BUT defense.
[/ QUOTE ]
There's a fundamental difference between a power that offers 5% smashing defense, and 5% smashing defense strength. The first increases your defense to that attack type by 5 percentage points. The second increases your ability to use powers that offer defense against that attack type: it increases your defensive powers by 5%.
In other words, if you have a power that offers 20% defense to smashing_attack, and you get another power that offers 5% defense to smashing_attack, your total defense is 25%. If on the other hand the second power offered 5% strength to smashing_attack, then in this case (with a lot of caveats I'm skipping for simplicity purposes) your total defense would be 21% (20 * 1.05).
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Unfortunately the detailed info windows show both types as "strength".
(e.g. Combat Jumping is listed as giving x% "strength" to the various Defense types)
So, for Defense, both regular Def and Def Str are listed as "strength" (in the power detailed info windows).
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For example, a certain power lists a "5% STRENGTH against attacks." What is "strength"? Does it make my character STRONGER (ie. do more damage?) No it means increased DEFENSE. Call it DEFENSE, not STRENGTH. Never call it anything BUT defense.
[/ QUOTE ]
There's a fundamental difference between a power that offers 5% smashing defense, and 5% smashing defense strength. The first increases your defense to that attack type by 5 percentage points. The second increases your ability to use powers that offer defense against that attack type: it increases your defensive powers by 5%.
In other words, if you have a power that offers 20% defense to smashing_attack, and you get another power that offers 5% defense to smashing_attack, your total defense is 25%. If on the other hand the second power offered 5% strength to smashing_attack, then in this case (with a lot of caveats I'm skipping for simplicity purposes) your total defense would be 21% (20 * 1.05).
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Unfortunately the detailed info windows show both types as "strength".
(e.g. Combat Jumping is listed as giving x% "strength" to the various Defense types)
So, for Defense, both regular Def and Def Str are listed as "strength" (in the power detailed info windows).
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That's pohsyb's fault: I only pretend to work here.
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In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
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For example, a certain power lists a "5% STRENGTH against attacks." What is "strength"? Does it make my character STRONGER (ie. do more damage?) No it means increased DEFENSE. Call it DEFENSE, not STRENGTH. Never call it anything BUT defense.
[/ QUOTE ]
There's a fundamental difference between a power that offers 5% smashing defense, and 5% smashing defense strength. The first increases your defense to that attack type by 5 percentage points. The second increases your ability to use powers that offer defense against that attack type: it increases your defensive powers by 5%.
In other words, if you have a power that offers 20% defense to smashing_attack, and you get another power that offers 5% defense to smashing_attack, your total defense is 25%. If on the other hand the second power offered 5% strength to smashing_attack, then in this case (with a lot of caveats I'm skipping for simplicity purposes) your total defense would be 21% (20 * 1.05).
List the power being referenced above and I'll see if its using the terminology correctly or not.
There's a lot of crazy terminology that isn't proper, I'll grant that. But in many cases the difference in terminology signals a real distinction.
In your example, such a power *does* make you stronger. It makes your ability to use defensive powers themselves stronger. This distinction occurs many times in the game: there's a huge difference between movement increase (increasing your base movement velocity) and movement strength increase (increasing the value of your movement buffing powers) for example.
Basically: some things buff you. Some things buff your powers that buff you. That's the oversimplified distinction between buffing Strength and buffing Attributes directly.
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Wow, that is just horrible (the system, not your explanation.) I am totally invoking the K.I.S.S. rule here. Convolution like this only alienates new or casual players.
Oh, here's another one- Accuracy and ToHit. If I am buffing/debuffing toHit, I am effecting Accuracy. I understand that there are some powers that can be slotted for both accuracy and ToHit debuff (Dark Melee for instance0 but if Accuracy, Accuracy Buff and Accuracy DeBuff were listed in the alphabetically (ie, right next to each other) it would be much easier for new players to compare and appreciate the distinction, and thus, learn and enjoy the game faster.
Stay Gold, Paragon. Stay Gold.
Nolite te bastardes carborundorum.
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Oh, here's another one- Accuracy and ToHit. If I am buffing/debuffing toHit, I am effecting Accuracy.
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Actually, Accuracy and ToHit are separate quantities that, together with the target's defense, are used to determine your end HitChance. ToHit has nothing to do with Accuracy, Accuracy has nothing to do with ToHit, and neither of them will be the exclusive decider in your end HitChance.
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Oh, here's another one- Accuracy and ToHit. If I am buffing/debuffing toHit, I am effecting Accuracy.
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Actually, Accuracy and ToHit are separate quantities that, together with the target's defense, are used to determine your end HitChance. ToHit has nothing to do with Accuracy, Accuracy has nothing to do with ToHit, and neither of them will be the exclusive decider in your end HitChance.
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Again, I am invoking K.I.S.S.
Stay Gold, Paragon. Stay Gold.
Nolite te bastardes carborundorum.
This is something that has always irritated me about the game, and as more bells & whistles get added, the problem seems to get worse and worse. I think there is a real issue with information/terminology within the game and how information and items are tree'd in menus.
For example, a certain power lists a "5% STRENGTH against attacks." What is "strength"? Does it make my character STRONGER (ie. do more damage?) No it means increased DEFENSE. Call it DEFENSE, not STRENGTH. Never call it anything BUT defense.
Another example- I was shopping for Endurance Modification enhancements. That's a good name for them. They help you recover endurance, but they also help endurance-draining powers perform better. After much searching, I finally found them, under "RECOVERY." Some vendors sell them as "ENDURANCE MODIFICATION', others as "RECOVERY". The same exact enhancement. Same origin and everything.
It's just sloppy and amateurish, really. It hurts the flow of game and makes it much much harder for new players to learn the game. I remember when i first started playing, it took me a little what to grasp the difference between Damage Resistance and Defense. How much harder must it be for new players when the game keeps mixing up the terms?
Pick clear, sensible terms and STICK TO THEM.
Stay Gold, Paragon. Stay Gold.
Nolite te bastardes carborundorum.