That is indeed a crab build with pool maneuvers and assault, and you had to sacrifice aim and a patron AoE to do it. Between build up and a 4th AoE, most huntsman builds I see actually have more AoE than that one. And the huntsman build is still competitive in team contribution given surveillance and WAWG. And as I mentioned before, the global recharge necessary to perma spiderlings is not trivial to acquire nowadays.
Like I said, if you try and squeeze the leadership pool powers into a crab build, you've got to sacrifice something.
(As a personal pet peeve, can we not post builds with the huge long section of set bonuses broken down by individual set? It doesn't really add much, and it's annoying to have to scroll past that huge useless chunk of text.)
@MuonNeutrino
Student, Gamer, Altaholic, and future Astronomer.
This is what it means to be a tank!
Money where your mouth is. 
As for the Aim issue, I don't take it anyway, so it's hardly a "sacrifice." I do miss the patron aoe blast (my live crab has one) but aim? lol. The point I was making is that the so-called "benefit" the bane brings (double leaderships) can be dome by a crab, who thanks to all the other good powers in the crab pools, will be better even after the "sacrifices" to fit double leaderships. Where's the Bane with double leadership that doesn't suck?
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is a natural manure. -Thomas Jefferson
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Well guys, Thanks for all the useful and (Some I might add) not so useful information. I did end up going with the Huntsman, mainly for the TF's I normaly go on. Personaly, after playing both the Crab AND the Huntsman on MANY TF's on my trip to 45th lvl, I can honestly say this; The Crab can not stealth past the mish to the end and help the team as much as a Huntsman can. My VG only does FAST Sf's and TF's. If you cant stealth, your dead weight. I still havent seen Aisynia's guide yet, still trying to find it as its not posted in her sig. I havent done my last respec as of yet, but I am planning on it today/tonight.
Personaly, the viability of a Huntsman on TF's that require speed far out weighs the Crab taking double leadership; Mainly because if you not only take double leadership but also take the invis pool, you loose what a Crab is all about. But on a Huntsman, Invis comes built in and you sacrifice what...SS? Sj? I dont use those anyway, I buy the jet packs from GV for movement. Anyway, I realy appreciate all the realy useful info everyone gave (Well most everyone hehe).
Thanks again guys and Gals
I hate all this terrorist business. I used to love the days when you could look at an unattended bag on a train or bus and think to yourself.... I'm going to take that.
The stealthability of a Huntsman is hardly a reason to choose it over a Crab. Me, I've got a stealth IO in Sprint, I toggle it on and I can run through a Cimeroran cave to free Sybils or destroy Cysts no problem. If I'm on an sf that requires running to an end objective, stealth works fine. If I do happen to aggro someone, guess what? I can survive the resulting attacks.
There may be reasons for choosing a Huntsman over a Crab and I'm not going to get into that, but stealthability for running speedy SFs is NOT one of them.
LOL after IOing my Bane, I cant afford the 30m + for a stealth IO. I dont know, the Huntsman just "Feels" right to me more than a Crab does.
I hate all this terrorist business. I used to love the days when you could look at an unattended bag on a train or bus and think to yourself.... I'm going to take that.
[ QUOTE ]
I dont know, the Huntsman just "Feels" right to me more than a Crab does.
[/ QUOTE ]
This makes all of this
[ QUOTE ]
Well guys, Thanks for all the useful and (Some I might add) not so useful information. I did end up going with the Huntsman, mainly for the TF's I normaly go on. Personaly, after playing both the Crab AND the Huntsman on MANY TF's on my trip to 45th lvl, I can honestly say this; The Crab can not stealth past the mish to the end and help the team as much as a Huntsman can. My VG only does FAST Sf's and TF's. If you cant stealth, your dead weight. I still havent seen Aisynia's guide yet, still trying to find it as its not posted in her sig. I havent done my last respec as of yet, but I am planning on it today/tonight.
Personaly, the viability of a Huntsman on TF's that require speed far out weighs the Crab taking double leadership; Mainly because if you not only take double leadership but also take the invis pool, you loose what a Crab is all about. But on a Huntsman, Invis comes built in and you sacrifice what...SS? Sj? I dont use those anyway, I buy the jet packs from GV for movement.
[/ QUOTE ] a huge load of [censored], especially because it's not true.
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is a natural manure. -Thomas Jefferson
Read the Patriot newsletter. It's right, it's free.
I don't see how one statement has any bearing on the other. I also don't see how his personal interpretation can be considered not true in context.
Edit: waaaiiit a minute........
Ragnar, in case you still haven't found Aisynia's Huntsman guide, it's here. It's so far the only pure Huntsman guide in the stickied guides thread.
It seems to me that the basic question for Crab vs. Huntsman is simply one of considering the mutually exclusive powers.
"Do I, considering what I want to do with this build, feel that the Crab powers bring more to the table than Build Up and Surveillance?"
If what you want to do is go for as many buff/debuffs as possible on a Spider, then they do not - there are a lot of nice Crab powers, but none of them match the ST debuff of Surveillance. Most of them are powerful AoEs, but in this case you get "good enough" AoE without the Crab powers - what they bring to the table is insufficient to warrant giving up Surveillance for this character. Since Bane's AoE is not terribly good, he goes for the Wolf Spider AoEs to pick up the slack and fills out with a mix of Bane and Wolf utility powers. It is a Soldier build arrived at logically given what the player's design goals are.
Now, you can legitimately ask "is it worth using the VEAT to try to build the most buff/debuff-focused character I can?" If your personal answer to that question is no, well, that's your opinion and your taste. However, it is entirely reasonable to say that the build a player ends up with if he wants to make the Arachnos Soldier AT as buff/debuff-focused as possible with AoE fire support is a build that is generally called the "Huntsman", without reference to "lolrp" or whatever other rhetorical attacks you feel like making.
[ QUOTE ]
"Do I, considering what I want to do with this build, feel that the Crab powers bring more to the table than Build Up and Surveillance?"
[/ QUOTE ]
I think that statement really sums up my feelings on the debate of Crab vs Huntsman. I'll add aesthetics to the mix though. You'll want to be happy playing the toon, and some folks don't like the look of the Crab backpack. The gun attacks have a more widely resisted damage type, but in practice I don't find that much of a drawback. I've played Crab, but I went back to my Huntsman build. With either of them I can melt minions, and LT's very quickly. I don't have that much more difficulty vs Bosses/EB's as a Huntsman due to Surveillance. It might not be the most optimal ranged attacker of the VEATs, but the Huntsman isn't that bad either.
Show me a huntsman build that brings more to a team without sacrificing personal effectiveness than this example crab. Please.
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/
[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]
Level 50 Natural Arachnos Soldier
Primary Power Set: Crab Spider Soldier
Secondary Power Set: Crab Spider Training
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery
Villain Profile:
Level 1: Channelgun <ul type="square">[*] (A) Thunderstrike - Damage/Endurance/Recharge[*] (3) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance[*] (5) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge[*] (5) Thunderstrike - Damage/Endurance[*] (7) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage[/list]Level 1: Crab Spider Armor Upgrade <ul type="square">[*] (A) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%[*] (3) Steadfast Protection - Knockback Protection[/list]Level 2: Longfang <ul type="square">[*] (A) Thunderstrike - Damage/Endurance/Recharge[*] (7) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance[*] (37) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge[*] (40) Thunderstrike - Damage/Recharge[*] (40) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage[/list]Level 4: Combat Training: Defensive <ul type="square">[*] (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed[/list]Level 6: Swift <ul type="square">[*] (A) Flight Speed IO[/list]Level 8: Suppression <ul type="square">[*] (A) Detonation - Damage/Endurance/Range[*] (9) Detonation - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance[*] (9) Detonation - Damage/Range[*] (36) Detonation - Damage/Recharge[*] (37) Detonation - Accuracy/Damage[/list]Level 10: Tactical Training: Maneuvers <ul type="square">[*] (A) Red Fortune - Defense[*] (11) Red Fortune - Endurance[*] (11) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance[*] (36) Red Fortune - Defense/Recharge[*] (36) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance/Recharge[/list]Level 12: Venom Grenade <ul type="square">[*] (A) Positron's Blast - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance[*] (13) Positron's Blast - Accuracy/Damage[*] (13) Positron's Blast - Damage/Endurance[*] (15) Positron's Blast - Damage/Recharge[*] (15) Positron's Blast - Damage/Range[/list]Level 14: Health <ul type="square">[*] (A) Numina's Convalescence - +Regeneration/+Recovery[*] (17) Numina's Convalescence - Heal[*] (17) Miracle - +Recovery[/list]Level 16: Tactical Training: Assault <ul type="square">[*] (A) Endurance Reduction IO[/list]Level 18: Frag Grenade <ul type="square">[*] (A) Positron's Blast - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance[*] (19) Positron's Blast - Accuracy/Damage[*] (19) Positron's Blast - Damage/Endurance[*] (21) Positron's Blast - Damage/Recharge[*] (21) Positron's Blast - Damage/Range[*] (23) Force Feedback - Chance for +Recharge[/list]Level 20: Stamina <ul type="square">[*] (A) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End[*] (23) Performance Shifter - EndMod[*] (25) Endurance Modification IO[/list]Level 22: Mental Training <ul type="square">[*] (A) Flight Speed IO[/list]Level 24: Hover <ul type="square">[*] (A) Blessing of the Zephyr - Run Speed, Jump, Flight Speed, Range[*] (25) Blessing of the Zephyr - Run Speed, Jump, Flight Speed, Range/Endurance[*] (27) Luck of the Gambler - Defense[*] (27) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed[/list]Level 26: Fly <ul type="square">[*] (A) Blessing of the Zephyr - Run Speed, Jump, Flight Speed, Range[*] (34) Blessing of the Zephyr - Run Speed, Jump, Flight Speed, Range/Endurance[/list]Level 28: Fortification <ul type="square">[*] (A) Aegis - Psionic/Status Resistance[*] (29) Aegis - Resistance[*] (29) Aegis - Resistance/Endurance[*] (31) Aegis - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge[*] (31) Aegis - Resistance/Recharge[/list]Level 30: Serum <ul type="square">[*] (A) Doctored Wounds - Recharge[*] (31) Doctored Wounds - Heal[*] (33) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Endurance[*] (33) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Recharge[*] (33) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Endurance/Recharge[/list]Level 32: Omega Maneuver <ul type="square">[*] (A) Positron's Blast - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance[*] (34) Positron's Blast - Accuracy/Damage[*] (34) Positron's Blast - Damage/Endurance[*] (50) Positron's Blast - Damage/Recharge[*] (50) Positron's Blast - Damage/Range[/list]Level 35: Summon Spiderlings <ul type="square">[*] (A) Sovereign Right - Accuracy/Damage[*] (37) Damage Increase IO[*] (43) Sovereign Right - Damage/Endurance[*] (46) Recharge Reduction IO[*] (46) Recharge Reduction IO[/list]Level 38: Call Reinforcements <ul type="square">[*] (A) Soulbound Allegiance - Damage/Endurance[*] (39) Soulbound Allegiance - Damage/Recharge[*] (39) Soulbound Allegiance - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge[*] (39) Soulbound Allegiance - Accuracy/Recharge[*] (40) Recharge Reduction IO[*] (50) Recharge Reduction IO[/list]Level 41: Tactical Training: Leadership <ul type="square">[*] (A) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Recharge/Endurance[*] (42) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Chance for Build Up[*] (42) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Endurance[*] (42) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff[*] (43) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge[*] (43) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge/Endurance[/list]Level 44: Maneuvers <ul type="square">[*] (A) Red Fortune - Defense[*] (45) Red Fortune - Endurance[*] (45) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance[*] (45) Red Fortune - Defense/Recharge[*] (46) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance/Recharge[/list]Level 47: Gloom <ul type="square">[*] (A) Devastation - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge[*] (48) Devastation - Accuracy/Damage[*] (48) Devastation - Damage/Endurance[*] (48) Devastation - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge[/list]Level 49: Assault <ul type="square">[*] (A) Endurance Reduction IO[/list]------------
Level 1: Brawl <ul type="square">[*] (A) Empty[/list]Level 1: Sprint <ul type="square">[*] (A) Celerity - +Stealth[/list]Level 2: Rest <ul type="square">[*] (A) Recharge Reduction IO[/list]Level 1: Conditioning
------------
------------
[u]Set Bonus Totals:[u]<ul type="square">[*]13.5% DamageBuff(Smashing)[*]13.5% DamageBuff(Lethal)[*]13.5% DamageBuff(Fire)[*]13.5% DamageBuff(Cold)[*]13.5% DamageBuff(Energy)[*]13.5% DamageBuff(Negative)[*]13.5% DamageBuff(Toxic)[*]13.5% DamageBuff(Psionic)[*]4.25% Defense(Smashing)[*]4.25% Defense(Lethal)[*]9.88% Defense(Fire)[*]9.88% Defense(Cold)[*]12.4% Defense(Energy)[*]12.4% Defense(Negative)[*]3% Defense(Psionic)[*]5.5% Defense(Melee)[*]14.3% Defense(Ranged)[*]12.1% Defense(AoE)[*]4% Enhancement(Heal)[*]41% Enhancement(Accuracy)[*]48.8% Enhancement(RechargeTime)[*]18% FlySpeed[*]76.3 HP (7.12%) HitPoints[*]18% JumpHeight[*]18% JumpSpeed[*]Knockback (Mag -4)[*]Knockup (Mag -4)[*]MezResist(Immobilize) 4.4%[*]MezResist(Sleep) 4.4%[*]MezResist(Terrorized) 2.2%[*]15.5% (0.27 End/sec) Recovery[*]50% (2.68 HP/sec) Regeneration[*]8.51% Resistance(Fire)[*]8.51% Resistance(Cold)[*]1.88% Resistance(Energy)[*]3% Resistance(Psionic)[*]23% RunSpeed[*]3.5% XPDebtProtection[/list]------------
[u]Set Bonuses:[u]
[u]Thunderstrike[u]
(Channelgun)<ul type="square">[*] 2% (0.04 End/sec) Recovery[*] 2.5% Defense(Energy,Negative), 1.25% Defense(Ranged)[*] 7% Enhancement(Accuracy)[*] 4% RunSpeed, 4% FlySpeed, 4% JumpSpeed, 4% JumpHeight[/list][u]Steadfast Protection[u]
(Crab Spider Armor Upgrade)<ul type="square">[*] 1.5% (0.03 End/sec) Recovery[*] 3% Defense(All)[*] Knockback Protection (Mag -4)[/list][u]Thunderstrike[u]
(Longfang)<ul type="square">[*] 2% (0.04 End/sec) Recovery[*] 2.5% Defense(Energy,Negative), 1.25% Defense(Ranged)[*] 7% Enhancement(Accuracy)[*] 4% RunSpeed, 4% FlySpeed, 4% JumpSpeed, 4% JumpHeight[/list][u]Luck of the Gambler[u]
(Combat Training: Defensive)<ul type="square">[*] 7.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)[/list][u]Detonation[u]
(Suppression)<ul type="square">[*] MezResist(Sleep) 1.65%[*] 1.88% Resistance(Energy)[*] 1% XPDebtProtection[*] 1.88% Defense(AoE), 0.94% Defense(Fire), 0.94% Defense(Cold)[/list][u]Red Fortune[u]
(Tactical Training: Maneuvers)<ul type="square">[*] MezResist(Immobilize) 2.2%[*] 1.26% Resistance(Fire,Cold)[*] 2% DamageBuff(All)[*] 5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)[/list][u]Positron's Blast[u]
(Venom Grenade)<ul type="square">[*] 2.5% (0.04 End/sec) Recovery[*] 1.58% Resistance(Fire,Cold)[*] 9% Enhancement(Accuracy)[*] 6.25% Enhancement(RechargeTime)[/list][u]Numina's Convalescence[u]
(Health)<ul type="square">[*] 12% (0.64 HP/sec) Regeneration[/list][u]Positron's Blast[u]
(Frag Grenade)<ul type="square">[*] 2.5% (0.04 End/sec) Recovery[*] 1.58% Resistance(Fire,Cold)[*] 9% Enhancement(Accuracy)[*] 6.25% Enhancement(RechargeTime)[/list][u]Performance Shifter[u]
(Stamina)<ul type="square">[*] 5% JumpSpeed, 5% JumpHeight, 5% FlySpeed, 5% RunSpeed[/list][u]Blessing of the Zephyr[u]
(Hover)<ul type="square">[*] 3.13% Defense(Ranged), 1.56% Defense(Energy), 1.56% Defense(Negative)[/list][u]Luck of the Gambler[u]
(Hover)<ul type="square">[*] 10% (0.54 HP/sec) Regeneration[*] 7.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)[/list][u]Blessing of the Zephyr[u]
(Fly)<ul type="square">[*] 3.13% Defense(Ranged), 1.56% Defense(Energy), 1.56% Defense(Negative)[/list][u]Aegis[u]
(Fortification)<ul type="square">[*] 5% RunSpeed[*] 3.13% Defense(Fire,Cold), 1.56% Defense(AoE)[*] 2.5% XPDebtProtection[*] 3.13% Defense(AoE), 1.56% Defense(Fire), 1.56% Defense(Cold)[*] 3% Resistance(Psionic)[/list][u]Doctored Wounds[u]
(Serum)<ul type="square">[*] MezResist(Terrorized) 2.2%[*] 1.26% Resistance(Fire,Cold)[*] 4% Enhancement(Heal)[*] 5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)[/list][u]Positron's Blast[u]
(Omega Maneuver)<ul type="square">[*] 2.5% (0.04 End/sec) Recovery[*] 1.58% Resistance(Fire,Cold)[*] 9% Enhancement(Accuracy)[*] 6.25% Enhancement(RechargeTime)[/list][u]Sovereign Right[u]
(Summon Spiderlings)<ul type="square">[*] MezResist(Sleep) 2.75%[/list][u]Soulbound Allegiance[u]
(Call Reinforcements)<ul type="square">[*] 16% (0.86 HP/sec) Regeneration[*] 32.1 HP (3%) HitPoints[*] 4% DamageBuff(All)[/list][u]Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control[u]
(Tactical Training: Leadership)<ul type="square">[*] 5% JumpSpeed, 5% JumpHeight, 5% FlySpeed, 5% RunSpeed[*] 20.1 HP (1.87%) HitPoints[*] 2.5% (0.04 End/sec) Recovery[*] 2.5% DamageBuff(All)[*] 2.5% Defense(Melee), 1.25% Defense(Lethal), 1.25% Defense(Smashing), 2.5% Defense(Ranged), 1.25% Defense(Energy), 1.25% Defense(Negative), 2.5% Defense(AoE), 1.25% Defense(Fire), 1.25% Defense(Cold)[/list][u]Red Fortune[u]
(Maneuvers)<ul type="square">[*] MezResist(Immobilize) 2.2%[*] 1.26% Resistance(Fire,Cold)[*] 2% DamageBuff(All)[*] 5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)[/list][u]Devastation[u]
(Gloom)<ul type="square">[*] 12% (0.64 HP/sec) Regeneration[*] 24.1 HP (2.25%) HitPoints[*] 3% DamageBuff(All)[/list]
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is a natural manure. -Thomas Jefferson
Read the Patriot newsletter. It's right, it's free.