[ QUOTE ]
I can add it later if anyone requests is, but from my knowledge i don't believe i know anyone who still gets it.
[/ QUOTE ]
/Energy Melee Tanks are forced to take Barrage, so you still might want to include it just for comparisons sake between Tanks, Brutes, and Stalkers.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I can add it later if anyone requests is, but from my knowledge i don't believe i know anyone who still gets it.
[/ QUOTE ]
/Energy Melee Tanks are forced to take Barrage, so you still might want to include it just for comparisons sake between Tanks, Brutes, and Stalkers.
[/ QUOTE ]
Roger that, Didn't even think about that! 
"PvP Messiah"
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I can add it later if anyone requests is, but from my knowledge i don't believe i know anyone who still gets it.
[/ QUOTE ]
/Energy Melee Tanks are forced to take Barrage, so you still might want to include it just for comparisons sake between Tanks, Brutes, and Stalkers.
[/ QUOTE ]
Roger that, Didn't even think about that!
[/ QUOTE ]
And, for completeness, you could compare Barrage to Power Thrust for Blasters, and Thunder Kick for Scrappers. That's the Tier 1 for everyone.
Petey Quick, SL50 Ene/Ene Blapper - Cynapse, SL50 Inv/Ene Tanker
Witchblaze, Fire/Fire Blaster - Lo Ping, MA/Regen Scrapper
Astre, Fire/Kin Controller - Terri Volta, Rad/Rad Defender - Solarkinetic, Peacebringer
Yusaku's Guide to the Energy/Energy BLAPPER
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I can add it later if anyone requests is, but from my knowledge i don't believe i know anyone who still gets it.
[/ QUOTE ]
/Energy Melee Tanks are forced to take Barrage, so you still might want to include it just for comparisons sake between Tanks, Brutes, and Stalkers.
[/ QUOTE ]
Roger that, Didn't even think about that!
[/ QUOTE ]
And, for completeness, you could compare Barrage to Power Thrust for Blasters, and Thunder Kick for Scrappers. That's the Tier 1 for everyone.
[/ QUOTE ]
Added it, also added Blaster attacks Without Build Up with Aim, realized i hadnt put that in there. 
"PvP Messiah"
There's some rules I think you might not be aware of, that adds some context to comparisons like this.
First, attack powers are ordinarily balanced according to a particular formula. Two of them in fact; they are:
(DamageScale - 0.36) / 0.16 = Recharge
DamageScale * 5.2 = EnduranceCost
Given two attacks with the same recharge, say four seconds, they will actually have the same damage. At least, the same intrinsic damage.
All attack powers are designed with a "damage scale" value. Powers with recharge of 4 seconds generally do Scale 1.0 damage. What does that mean?
There is a table that represents the damage curve for players. Its somewhat related to the brawl damage you do at every level - in fact, its 100/36 times your brawl damage, because brawl is a 0.36 scale attack. Basically, at level 50, a scale 1 attack does 55.61 points of damage.
At least, that's for an archetype with archetype damage modifier 1.0. All archetypes have modifiers that specify how much more or less than the "standard" damage they do. If you've heard of people talk about scrappers having a 1.125 damage modifier, that's what they are talking about.
The (melee) archetype damage modifier for the different archetypes in question are:
Blaster: 1.0
Scrapper: 1.125
Tanker: 0.8
Brute: 0.75
Stalker: 0.9
Dominator: 0.95
(See: City of Data: attribute modifier tables: Melee_Damage for the melee damage table, multiplied by the appropriate archetype modifier, for all archetypes. The blaster table is essentially the "native" table, because the blaster archetype modifier for melee damage is 1.0.)
So basically, if a blaster and a scrapper both have an attack that recharges in 4 seconds, its probably doing scale 1 damage, which means at level 50 the blaster does 55.61 damage, and the scrapper does 55.61 * 1.125 = 62.56 damage (plus or minus some occasional round off decimals). Given the same recharge, a scrapper melee attack will always do 12.5% more damage than the equivalent blaster attack.
Of course, just because two attacks have the same name in two different sets, doesn't make them the same power. Energy punch in the energy melee set is a 4 second recharge scale 1 damage attack. But Energy punch in the energy manipulation set (blasters) is a 10 second recharge, scale 1.96 damage attack - its "intrinsicly" almost twice as strong of an attack in terms of its damage per swing (but it recharges more than twice as slowly).
If you rank attacks by when the set gets them, you're really ultimately comparing recharge, in a certain sense (ironically, slower being better on the damage scale). If you rank attacks by their recharge as similar attacks, then ultimately you're really comparing archetype modifiers, and extras like fury and criticals.
The reason the scrapper numbers tend to float to the top is that ultimately, they have the highest archetype modifier, and of course you're counting double-damage criticals on top of that. Brutes tend to be very high also because you're counting full fury. The blaster peeks out on energy punch, because they just have a completely different energy punch (its designed to hit hard, but not often, unlike the energy punch in energy melee, which is designed to be a fast attack that can be used as a bread and butter attack).
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
Your numbers for every brute attack are off, I'm guessing you multiply instead of adding (or multiplying from base).
Full fury gives 180% ("real" full fury is almost impossible to get, it locks around 90).
Enhancements gives ~100%.
Build up give 80%.
So a full fury brute using BU is at 460% dmg, which means, for example, ET deals 190.18 x 4.6 = 874.74 dmg.
I really am not sure what you were trying to "say" with your reply. It doesnt affect the comparison at all. It wasn't as much a comparison of the exact power as it was of all the powers. Where they stood in damage dealing category.
I'm aware of the Damage multipliers, but the reason for the comparison was just that, a comparison. Taking the single target exact damage minus resistance and other factors. So someone can actually see the hard numbers.
Now sure you have to take in to account that
1. A Scrapper will not crit all the time, in fact, i find them few and far between in PvE.
2. A brute will not have Full Fury 100% of the time. Usually around a 1.5x bonus i would say on average in PvE
But that is why all the different possibilities of what your capable of doing are there. So you can know.
It was just to show some data if someone was wondering "I wonder how much that attack can do"
The recharge rates and other variables are taken out. The only common item is the 3 lvl 50 Damage IOs. So it is an exact comparison for damage. It shows all the possibilities of what self buffs can do to assist in the damage.
No outside Buffs, DeBuffs, Res, Def, or any other factors are taken into account. There are too many variables to add.
"PvP Messiah"
[ QUOTE ]
Your numbers for every brute attack are off, I'm guessing you multiply instead of adding (or multiplying from base).
Full fury gives 180% ("real" full fury is almost impossible to get, it locks around 90).
Enhancements gives ~100%.
Build up give 80%.
So a full fury brute using BU is at 460% dmg, which means, for example, ET deals 190.18 x 4.6 = 874.74 dmg.
[/ QUOTE ]
A Full Fury bar will yield 3x base damage.
So you take the base attack + BU x 3 = Final Amount
I've seen unbuffed Brutes hit for 1500, so I'm leaning towards the equation i used being correct.
"PvP Messiah"
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Your numbers for every brute attack are off, I'm guessing you multiply instead of adding (or multiplying from base).
Full fury gives 180% ("real" full fury is almost impossible to get, it locks around 90).
Enhancements gives ~100%.
Build up give 80%.
So a full fury brute using BU is at 460% dmg, which means, for example, ET deals 190.18 x 4.6 = 874.74 dmg.
[/ QUOTE ]
A Full Fury bar will yield 3x base damage.
So you take the base attack + BU x 3 = Final Amount
I've seen unbuffed Brutes hit for 1500, so I'm leaning towards the equation i used being correct.
[/ QUOTE ]
All damage buffs, whether from build up, fury, or other sources, are additive, not multiplicative. There are no exceptions to this rule with regard to damage buffs.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
[ QUOTE ]
I really am not sure what you were trying to "say" with your reply.
[/ QUOTE ]
Basically, that if you hand (for example) a scrapper and a tanker the same attack, the scrapper will always do 40% more damage than the tanker enhanced, 180% more than the tanker with criticals. If the appropriate ratio doesn't hold, like in the case for blasters and tankers with energy punch, then either there is a calculation error, or the two powers being compared are actually not very similar at all. That might suggest that comparing them is not reasonable, or it might suggest that comparing them is reasonable if the intent is to characterize how different the powers actually are.
You labelled the post a comparison of energy melee attacks, not just an illustration of damage values, so I'm assuming there was a point to be made about comparing the different numbers. If so, the attack formulas are ultimately where that comparison would end up. If there wasn't any such point, then the fundamental design formulas behind the powers aren't especially useful to you, although they might be to someone else attempting to look at the computations in more detail.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
This:
[ QUOTE ]
A Full Fury bar will yield 3x base damage.
[/ QUOTE ]
means this:
base +200% = 300%
not this:
base x3 = 300%
Level 50 is a journey, not a destination.
▲Scrapper Issues List - Going Rogue Edition▲
Updated with proper Fury Formula, Thanks Arcanaville
"PvP Messiah"
[ QUOTE ]
This:
[ QUOTE ]
A Full Fury bar will yield 3x base damage.
[/ QUOTE ]
means this:
base +200% = 300%
not this:
base x3 = 300%
[/ QUOTE ]
Yea definetly not multiplicative. The only way to buff your damage multiplicativly is through Crits or -res debuffs. The brutes you saw hit for 1.5k+ were probably buffed. In fact, to really wrap this up with a bow on top, you should compare the damages at the caps. Here they are just for reference:
Blaster, Scrapper, and Dominator(not sure, but I think it is) - 500%
Tanker and Defender (Defenders can get total focus)- 400%
Brute - 850% (yes, that is correct 
)
And fury just adds to the base, as due SOs and outside buffs. Lets say for example, a Brute had 90 Fury, 3 damage SOs, and a Fulcrum Shift. Thats 100% (base) + 90*2% (fury) + 95% (SOs) + 200% (FS) = 575% damage.
Yea the updated version shows the correct Fury additive. Using the correct formula Base * (1 + IOs%+Fury+ BU) = Correct
"PvP Messiah"
[u]Comparing Energy Melee and all around Single target Melee damage between ATs.[u]
, all in all, it is utterly worthless however in comparison to the other ATs options
So I was running around looking for a guide that provided a good comparison of the Energy Melee
Power Set and couldn't find a good one, so i decided to make my own. All these Attacks were slotted with
lvl 50 IOs, "Invention: Damage Increase" not sets. I really wanted to add Scrappers in for comparison, so i used the Martial Arts Power Set for comparison, reasoning is below.
Section 1 = The Break Down
Section 2 = The Champs
Section 3 = The Curious
Section 1 = The Break Down
Blaster:
Power Thrust=88.6 w/o Build Up w/o Aim
Power Thrust=116.4 w/o Build Up w/ Aim
Power Thrust=133 w/ Build Up w/o Aim
Power Thrust=160.8 w/ Build Up w/ Aim
Energy Punch=217 w/o Build Up w/o Aim
Energy Punch=285.1 w/o Build Up W/ Aim
Energy Punch=326 w/ Build Up w/o Aim
Energy Punch=394.1 w/Build Up w/ Aim
Bone Smasher=287.8 Damage w/o Build Up w/o Aim
Bone Smasher=378.2 W/o Build Up W/ Aim
Bone Smasher=432.4 W/ Build Up w/o Aim
Bone Smasher=522.8 w/ Build Up w/ Aim
Total Focus=394.1 Damage w/o Build Up w/o Aim
Total Focus=517.8 W/o Build Up W/ Aim
Total Focus=592.1 W/ Build Up w/o Aim
Total Focus=715.8 W/ Build Up w/ Aim
Brute:
Barrage=56.5 W/o Build Up W/o Full Fury
Barrage=79.1 W/ Build Up W/o Full Fury
Barrage=113.3 W/o Build Up W/Full Fury
Barrage=136.1 W/ Build Up W/Full Fury
Energy Punch=83 Damage W/o Build Up
Energy Punch=116.4 W/ Build Up
Energy Punch=166.4 W/o Build Up W/ Full Fury
Energy Punch=199.8 W/Build Up W/ Full Fury
Bone Smasher=136.2 W/o Build Up W/o Full Fury
Bone Smasher=190.9 W/ Build Up W/o Full Fury
Bone Smasher=273.0 W/o Build Up W/ Full Fury
Bone Smasher=327.7 W/ Build Up W/ Full Fury
Total Focus=295.6 W/o Build Up W/o Full Fury
Total Focus=414.4 W/ Build Up W/o Full Fury
Total Focus=592.7 W/o Build Up W/ FUll Fury
Total Focus=711.5 W/ Build Up W/Full Fury
Energy Transfer=378.6 W/o Build Up W/o Full Fury
Energy Transfer=530.8 W/ Build Up W/o Full Fury
Energy Transfer=759.1 W/o Build Up W/ Full Fury
Energy Transfer=911.2 W/ Build Up W/Full Fury
Stalker:
Barrage=67.7 W/o Build up W/o Critical
Barrage=94.9 W/ Build Up w/o Critical
Barrage=135.4 W/o Build Up W/Critcal
Barrage=189.8 W/ Build up W/ Critical
Energy Punch=99.6 W/o Build Up W/o Critical
Energy Punch=139.7 W/ Build up W/o Critical
Energy Punch=199.2 W/o Build Up W/Critcal
Energy Punch=279.4 W/ Build up W/ Critical
Bone Smasher=163.4 W/o Build Up W/o Critical
Bone Smasher=229.1 W/ Build Up W/o Critical
Bone Smasher=326.8 W/o Build Up W/ Critical
Bone Smasher=458.2 W/ Build Up W/ Critical
Total Focus=354.7 W/o Build Up W/o Critical
Total Focus=497.3 W/ Build Up W/o Critical
*Total Focus=461.11 W/o Build Up W/ Critical
*Total Focus=646.49 W/ Build Up W/ Critical
**Energy Transfer=454.4 W/o Build Up W/o Critical
**Energy Transfer=636.9 W/ Build Up W/o Critical
Assassin's Strike=99.6 W/o Build Up W/o Critical
Assassin's Strike=139.7 W/ Build Up W/o Critical
Assassin's Strike=597.6 W/o Build Up W/ Critical
Assassin's Strike=838.2 W/ Build Up W/ Critical
*A Stalker's Total Focus only does a 30% Critical.
** A Stalkers Energy Transfer does not Critical.
Tank:
Barrage=60.2 W/o Build Up
Barrage=84.2 W/ Build Up
Energy Punch=88.6 w/o Build Up
Energy Punch=124.2 w/ Build Up
Bone Smasher=145.2 Damage w/o Build
Bone Smasher=203.6 W/ Build Up
Total Focus=315.3 w/o Build Up
Total Focus=442 W/ Build Up
Energy Transfer=403.9 w/o Build Up
Energy Transfer=566.1 w/ Build Up
Dominator:
Bone Smasher:136.2 W/o Domination
Bone Smasher:187.5 W/ Domination
Total Focus:295.6 W/o Domination
Total Focus: 407 W/ Domination
Scrapper:
Although Scrappers lack the Energy Melee set. I felt it necassary to add scrappers and to use the
Martial Arts power set for comparison. Since it does good Single target damage, recharges more similair
to Energy Melee then Broadsword, no draw times and also has inherent Stuns in some of the attacks.
Thunder Kick=104.6 W/o Build Up w/o Critical
Thunder Kick=157.2 W/ Build Up w/o Critical
Thunder Kick=209.2 W/o Build Up w/ Critical
Thunder Kick=314.4 W/ Build Up w/ Critical
Storm Kick=164.4 W/o Build Up w/o Critical
Storm Kick=247 w/ Build Up w/o Critical
Storm Kick=328.8 W/o Build Up W/ Critical
Storm Kick=494 W/ Build Up W/ Critical
Crane Kick=244.1 W/o Build Up w/o Critical
Crane Kick=366.7 w/ Build Up w/o Critical
Crane Kick=488.2 W/o Build Up w/ Critical
Crane Kick=733.4 W/ Build Up W/ Critical
Eagle's Claw=326.6 W/o Build Up w/o Critical
Eagle's Claw=490.6 w/ Build Up w/o Critical
Eagle's Claw=653.2 W/o Build Up w/ Critical
Eagle's Claw=981.2 W/ Build Up W/ Critical
Section 2 = The Champs
The Winners
Power Thrust/Barrage/Thunder Kick (The Tier 1's)
1st Scrapper= 314.4
2nd Brute= 237.3
3rd Stalker= 189.8
4th Blaster= 160.8
5th Tank= 84.2
6th (N/A)
Energy Punch (Storm Kick) =
1st Scrapper= 494
2nd Blaster= 394.1
3rd Brute= 349.2
4th Stalker= 279.4
5th Tank=124.2
6th (N/A)
Bone Smasher (Crane Kick) =
1st Scrapper= 733.4
2nd Brute= 572.7
3rd Blaster= 522.8
4th Stalker= 458.2
5th Tank= 203.6
6th Dominator= 187.5
Total Focus (Eagle's Claw) =
1st Brute= 1243.2
2nd Scrapper= 981.2
3rd Blaster= 715.8
4th Stalker= 646.49
5th Tank= 442
6th Dominator= 407
Energy Transfer =
1st Brute= 1595.4
2nd Stalker= 636.9
3rd Tank= 566.1
4th (N/A)
5th (N/A)
6th (N/A)
***Now although the variable of using Martial Arts for the scrapper set kind of unorganizes the study, i
still feel that it gives an accurate interpretation of where these ATs are when it comes to melee damage.
****If you see any stat that was incorrect please PM me so i can change it. They SHOULD be correct
*****These Stats were derived from data using Mid's hero Designer v 1.21
****** I am also aware of the probablitity of a Brute running at full Fury. A Blasters, Tanks, Stalkers
and Scrappers Build up (and Aim for Blasters) is not up all 100% of the time either.
Section 3 = The Curious
That's Odd...
One thing that bothers me about these stats is that Blasters are the only AT without a Mezz Protection
available in either their Inherent, Primary or Secondary Powers.
Blasters - None (Burn is in the /Fire Secondary and has -immob in it. Only mentioning it so i dont
get attacked
because you still have the ability to attack.)
Brutes - Secondary
Tanks - Primary
Scrappers - Secondary
Stalker - Secondary
Dominators - Inherent
Defenders - Primaries Mezz proc in Rad/ , Sonic/ and /Force Field.
Corruptors - Secondaries mezz proc in/Traps, /Rad and /Sonic.
Controllers - Secondaries /Rad, /Sonic and /Force Field.
Masterminds - Secondaries /Traps, /Force Field
In PvP Energy Melee is virtually the only acceptable set (for Blasters), although /Elec comes up often,
it is still popular opinion that /EM is far better.
So what is it that Blasters get that makes them so great in PvP? Ranged attacks some may say. With no
protection to Holds, Disorients, Sleeps, *immobs*, it would seem that all of a Blasters attacks may be
stopped quite quickly.
"But wait Hoperise! What about breakfrees and Auxilary Pools?"
-Although breakfrees and some mezz protection IS available, this means putting
restrictions on a Blaster that no other AT would have to endure.
"But wait Hoperise! What about the Blasters ranged attacks?"
-If you use a Fire/EM Blasters 3 Strongest attacks ( Total Focus, Bone Smasher, and Blaze)
You Would get a grant toal of 1845.8 Thats some pretty nice damage for 3 attacks.
It sure is if you dont get held inbetween any of them. 1 Hold, 1 Sleep, 1 Disorient, and thats
the game. Every other AT has a much greater chance of NOT being mezzed compared to a
Blaster. Don't make me tell you what a Brutes 3 must damaging attacks do....
Defiance is currently being reworked by our main man _Castle_ you can read the full thread
HERE
which would help alleviate much of the Blasters mains flaws.
A lot of Blaster fans are really pushing for a Domination type power. Makes sense to me, but thats
another thread
Again, Please if anything is wrong or you think something may need to be changed please send a PM so
i can update, im not perfect and i may have overlooked something.
THANKS!!!
"PvP Messiah"