The Martial Artist/Super Reflexes Handbook [I10]
By
AstralFire,
Posted on: 2007-08-11 10:09 in Player Guides
The extra crit chance on Eagle's Claw is really negligible at best outside of PvP for burst damage.
Scrappers have a 5% chance to crit against minions (and underlings?), 10% against everything else. Eagle's Claw's 5% higher chance on the things that really matter don't give it any better of a sustained DPS, since it's single-target. Boost to crit chance is a straight boost to damage, and EC's DPS-AT*1.15 doesn't raise it significantly compared to Storm Kick or Crane Kick's DPS-AT*1.1.
I also find EC to look kinda ridiculous since it's so flashy. "Here, let me show off all of my vital organs!" Jousting with it however, especially in flight or jump, is incredibly badass.
The high DPE is a very good point though, if you're having End problems. I'll be sure to include it in the next draft when I flag down a mod and beg them to update this.
I'm not against taking Eagle's Claw at all, and though I did heavily weigh the option of skipping it so I could have a little more flex room, I ended up deciding to keep it. I wanted to offer a bit of information that I found to go against the grain; several of the older guides and stuff on sites like GameAmp seem to highly recommend the power simply on the basis that it shows big numbers and is the Tier 9 of MA.
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The nice thing about Eagles Claw is that it has very good DPE. Though its DPS falls behind both Storm Kick's and Crane Kick's, its lower DPE means that its inclusion in an attack chain allows you to pump out more damage before you need to rest.
Also, its higher crit chance and 75% stun chance are pretty nice side effects.
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Quoted For Emphasis.
Although in terms of "raw damage" EC may look like it lags on a few critical areas ... DPA, DPS per animation, a few others ... it actually isn't "that far behind" once you start factoring in such things as the extra chance to crit. Also, EC "accelerates" rather favorably with Recharge Reduction, in part (oddly and counter-intuitively enough) because of its long animation time. The 12 second base recharge on 3 seconds of animation looks bad on the face of things, but with as "little" as +50% recharge those numbers shrink down to 8 seconds of recharge on 3 seconds of animation. +100% recharge (easily obtainable for Hasten builds) drops that down to 6 seconds of recharge on 3 seconds of animation.
What you wind up with is a power that, when accelerated, can be spammed very quickly, with a superior Damage Per Endurance efficiency ratio (extending fighting longevity), that will tend to crit more often than your other attacks will ... which in turn improves arrest rate more than another power might on "raw damage" alone.
And besides ... Eagles Claw simply wins all Style Contests hands down. 
Boot to the Head!
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To play Devil's advocate (and to contradict myself, haha!), one problem with Eagles Claw is that some of the damage tends to be wasted especially on teams. Its long animation time means that your intended target might be dead or very near death by the time your attack hits. Even solo, I sometimes find myself hitting EC unthinkingly then cursing because my targeted mob has only Boxing-level health left.
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I'll be sure to include it in the next draft when I flag down a mod and beg them to update this.
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As someone suggested to me recently regarding one of my guides, it's probably better to wait until the feedback dries up and then write a new one. Just remember to post a link to the new guide in this thread.
Also, I think it's worth mentioning that the proc damage IOs go that much farther in quick animation time attacks than they do on the slow ones.
Storm Kick (barely) > Thunder Kick = Boxing > Crane Kick = Crippling Axe Kick > Eagle's Claw for this purpose.
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I'll be sure to include it in the next draft when I flag down a mod and beg them to update this.
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As someone suggested to me recently regarding one of my guides, it's probably better to wait until the feedback dries up and then write a new one. Just remember to post a link to the new guide in this thread.
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Ah, good idea.
You and RedLynne will definitely get crediting in the next version of the guide (along with everyone else, like Scrapulous and Hikaru) Even if I don't agree with all that you have to say, this is all very good stuff.
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Also, I think it's worth mentioning that the proc damage IOs go that much farther in quick animation time attacks than they do on the slow ones.
Storm Kick (barely) > Thunder Kick = Boxing > Crane Kick = Crippling Axe Kick > Eagle's Claw for this purpose.
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Absolutely. Procs on fast-activating attacks are incredibly delicious!
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You and RedLynne will definitely get crediting in the next version of the guide (along with everyone else, like Scrapulous and Hikaru) Even if I don't agree with all that you have to say, this is all very good stuff.
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Ooh, credit! 
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Also, I think it's worth mentioning that the proc damage IOs go that much farther in quick animation time attacks than they do on the slow ones.
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Oh there's no doubt of that. Faster animating/recharging click powers deliver more "bang for buck" on proc IOs simply by virtue of being used more often.
That's part of the reason why I wish I could "afford" to slot Entropic Chaos into my Dark Blast, rather than Ruin ... so I could take advantage of the Heal Proc IO in Entropic Chaos when chaining TK/DB/AS endlessly. Unfortunately, I "can't" because I'm using the 5-slot bonus from Ruin to max out my AoE Defense ... and I don't have a spare slot left over to just slot the proc IO. 
Still, that doesn't mean some other enterprising scrapper couldn't slot their Dark Blast ... or Laser Beam Eyes ... or Shuriken(?) ... with the Entropic Chaos proc IO for an "offensive healing" attack in their build via the combination of rapid recharge and rapid animation times. It wouldn't be "as good" as Aid Self per se, let alone a slotted up Aid Self, but would be a lot better than nothing (post-40).
It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...
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I apologize for coming off slightly frosty. Late night and brevity don't make a good combination, heh. I'm glad you enjoyed it.
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It was groovy. & uh, GO VA! I live in Richmond, born & raised. I love Busch Gardens. Howdy neighbor!
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Yeah, the mistake is mine. In my mind, a true Perma-Elude build would not need any other defence toggles or passives, and would therefore indeed be "hiding in a corner" between Eludes.
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Yeah, I don't think real perma-Elude is possible w/o outside buffs, & I would still keep the other toggles because I'm a worry-wart, hehe. I only even looked at that build because a friend asked me to try & max out his positionals because he knows I'm an IO build junkie. I knew that he used to run actual perma-Elude back-in-the-day, so I ignored the conventional route & went straight for that goal. Needless to say he was pleased; when I told him I didn't know whether he was going to pee his superpants or cry...
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Now you have misunderstood me too. I'm talking about soft-capped defences 100% of the time, not 85%.
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So I misunderstood you misunderstanding me...Hmm, ok, so, I'm pretty sure that means... I WIN!!! 
Or something like that, idk...
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Of course, we're talking PvE here. I know nothing about MA/SRs in PvP.
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Yeah, well my friend PvP's quite a bit, & massive to-hit buffs>defense in PvP so w/o Elude you're toast if your opponent has a lot of to-hit. You still may be with it (Geas is broken, by the way), but you don't even have a shot w/o Elude if they just throw a lot of debuffs on you & pop a few yellows.
I just left a thread about how perma "God Modes" (Elude & Unstop) in PvP is unfair & needs a good nerfing. I would run perma-Unstop in PvE if I could, hehe, too bad it doesn't exist. *sigh* But I digress...
As far as EC is concerned, I personally adore the animation & can't wait until my MA can take it. But I'm a sucker for big-hitters; I get shivers every time I use Headsplitter, ET or TF, so...Funny aside to the +recharge build: After we talked about it my friend logged off for the night, then came back on like 5 minutes later & sent me a /t that said: "Hey, could I get off 2 Eagle's Claws & a Crane Kick in 1 BU cycle?" I said "yeah, I think so"; he said 'SWEET!!!" & logged again, lol. Style over substance, can't beat it!
Hi!
Love your guide and the extra info from the posters is awesome! I running a BS/SR now and he is a blast. One thing I learned while running around Bloody Bay with my MA/SR is that focused senses (I'm pretty sure that's the power) gives you +perception now and I was able to see a stalker at close range. It is actually listed in the power description that you can see foes that are stealthy (or something like that).
"I'm not scared of anyone or anything Angie. Isn't that the way life should be?"
Jack Hawksmoor, The Authority.
Great Guide! My MA/SR is now level 45. I've been playing him for quite awhile now, but have only recently started slotting him with IOs. I've managed to make him more of an MA/SR/Regen!
My question is this: I'd like to boost Recovery time so that my End bar moves up as fast as my Health bar does now. Since the 3 SR passives don't really add much defense on their own, I'm considering slotting them each with a couple of Gifts of the Ancients (Defense and one other), plus the usual generic Defense IO. This will lower my defense in each a little, but will give me +2% recovery in each from the set bonuses.
Do you think this trade-off would be worth it, or will I be sacrificing too much defense for too little End recovery?
Thanks.
Please try my arcs:
Arc# 63910 "Why Do Bad Girls Like Bad Boys?" (length=Long, levels 40+)
Arc# 401500 "How to Be a Successful Professional Criminal" (length=Very Long, levels 1-10)
GGG247, that depends on how much Defence you have overall. The higher your total Defence values, the more of a sacrifice that would be.
i.e. If you are at 35% Defence and would drop to 33% with the change, survivability isn't affected all that badly (-13% against +5 or weaker foes). But if you are at 45%, dropping to 43% would hurt survivability by a big margin (-40% against +5 or weaker foes).
Wanna post your build so we can take a look at it?
PS I hope I haven't overlooked something in my calculations again.
Hi Eldandil, AstralFire,
Would you mind reposting your builds please?
The build data has emoticons, and won't load into MIDs.
Make sure emoticons are disabled when you post the data; also noting the forum migration may've stuffed it.
Cheers and thanks - tao
� Taosin [Sydney, Australia]
Servers: Virtue, Justice, Exalted
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The nice thing about Eagles Claw is that it has very good DPE. Though its DPS falls behind both Storm Kick's and Crane Kick's, its lower DPE means that its inclusion in an attack chain allows you to pump out more damage before you need to rest.
Also, its higher crit chance and 75% stun chance are pretty nice side effects.
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Quoted For Emphasis.
Although in terms of "raw damage" EC may look like it lags on a few critical areas ... DPA, DPS per animation, a few others ... it actually isn't "that far behind" once you start factoring in such things as the extra chance to crit. Also, EC "accelerates" rather favorably with Recharge Reduction, in part (oddly and counter-intuitively enough) because of its long animation time. The 12 second base recharge on 3 seconds of animation looks bad on the face of things, but with as "little" as +50% recharge those numbers shrink down to 8 seconds of recharge on 3 seconds of animation. +100% recharge (easily obtainable for Hasten builds) drops that down to 6 seconds of recharge on 3 seconds of animation.
What you wind up with is a power that, when accelerated, can be spammed very quickly, with a superior Damage Per Endurance efficiency ratio (extending fighting longevity), that will tend to crit more often than your other attacks will ... which in turn improves arrest rate more than another power might on "raw damage" alone.
And besides ... Eagles Claw simply wins all Style Contests hands down.
Boot to the Head!