I'll reply =)
I think your team looks quite good but I would like to make a few suggestions
1) the stone brute is mainly for aggro, so it's primary doesn't really matter. super strength is good, but rage crashes during the big AV encounters could be a problem. a fire/stone brute has good AoEs and DoTs for aggroing, and will be able to clear the longbow and malta quickly.
2) instead of an ss/inv brute, an em/elec brute. the second brute is usually there to tank single Heroes for the cors. and em/elec has enough psi resistance to tank malaise and swan and sister psyche and numina with just a few oranges. energy melee with AM and speed boost will also put single target damage on the primary targets that the ss brute wont match.
3) sonic cage from sonic resonance. 1 sonic cager can perma cage any of the AVs or Heroes in the first 3 missions. in the last missions, 2 sonic cages fired at a 52-54 hero will remove that hero from the encounter. swan can be caged while the team finishes malaise. in the last encounter, numina, or posi or manti or states.. any hero that is exploiting a weakness in the team.
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My idea of the perfect team is:
1 fire/stone brute
1 sonic/sonic cor
1 sonic/thermal cor
2 fire , ice or sonic/kin cors
2 ice, fire or sonic/rad cors
1 mind/ice dominator
8 shivans (optional)
1) brute is for aggro management, AoE damage, and herding heroes
2) sonic is for shielding and large aoe bubble + debuffing and caging
3) thermal is for shielding, debuffing, targetted healing and rezzing. with patron shields, buffs and the sonic dispersion, the team will be mostly capped. blasts for debuffing/crowd control in missions.
4)kins are for boosting the team, adding -regen with their heal, and keeping the granite moving
5) rads are for rezzing, healing and spiking the team's damage. 2 also makes sure the team can hit through god mode powers
6) the dominator can be kept in perma-domination by the kins, hasten and rads. domination sleeps remove Heroes from the encounter, controls make the first missions much smoother and the mind/ice can do power-boosted vengeance on the team and shivans. I say /ice so that the dom can stay at range and cycle the three blasts.
1 /kin
1 /therm
2 /rads (1 sonic/rad, 1 Rad/Rad)
1 Fire/Stone
1 /Poison MM
1 /elec Brute
1 /sonic (sonic/sonic)
You can switch out afew slots but its still has more Cors than anything else, and I would suggest having at least one Therm on the team.
That top-end poison debuff sure is great... if you send a pet into melee range. IMHO, if you're a MM going with ranged pets, you're not as likely to take that power... I know I didn't. So I'm thinking it could be tricky to find an MM who has both ranged pets and (the name escapes me right now) the top-end poison debuff.
"I've played with Pur. Pur is truth." - MarvelatMee
"Pur is hardcore yo." - Swansu
"You're a weirdo, but I guess you're our weirdo now :P" - Aisynia
"...it's possible to go from 1 to 50 in about 1.5 weeks if you're ... Pur." - TopDoc
On average my Villain group runs the RSF with:
1 Stone Brute
2 /Rad
2 /Thermal
1 /Kin
1 /Vengence Bot
the 8th spot is reserved for a Non-Optimal AT, usually a Dominator, Stalker, or MM SG mate.
On average there are 4-7 team mates with Vengence and we Require that all members have Shivans and atleast 1 Nuke. Nuke Requirements are 2Chem/ 2Bio for the entire team.
The necessary Corruptors we've found are
/Kin
/Cold
/Thermal
/Rad
/Sonic (Can replace a Thermal, but does not have a -Regen ability like Cold, Rad, or Thermal)
having 1 or 2 of either of these, 1 Stone Brute, stocked Shivans, and 2 Chem and 2 Bio Nukes to use will almost always guarentee a successful RSF run. The final Mission has been done in under 1 minute at times.
-The Elite-[50's]Va'Leria�X'hian�Stormy Monday�Radical Burn�Mo'Mentum�Heat-Source�Professor Blaze
-World Wide Evil, Inc-[50s]Soulfire�Perma.Frost�Kold Soul�Foxphyre�Pitch-Black�Corrupt Fusion�Cassanova Brown�Tyler Thorn�Iron Siren�Solaura�Fortunauta Wade�Look'Alike�Arctic Engineer
Any 8 characters with shivans, 3 nukes each, enough buffs/debuffs/inspirations to bottom out the AVs to-hit, at least 2 members with -regen.
Step one - single target buffs
Step two - summon pets, including shivans, group heals on auto
Step three - drop bio nukes and team buffs
Step four - minimum 4 lucks
Step five - attack! leading with chem nukes followed by damage nukes.
Step six - find the remaining two or three AVs, engage them
Step seven - Admire your new SHOEs.
But generally speaking, 2 brutes (at least one stone), 6 corrupters (at least one kin and one rad), 8th slot can be anyone.
50s: Inv/SS PB Emp/Dark Grav/FF DM/Regen TA/A Sonic/Elec MA/Regen Fire/Kin Sonic/Rad Ice/Kin Crab Fire/Cold NW Merc/Dark Emp/Sonic Rad/Psy Emp/Ice WP/DB FA/SM
Overlord of Dream Team and Nightmare Squad
Sheesh why is this thing called LRSF so hard? Is it this hard on the heroic equivalent? if so then it is way too hard if you have to have a "perfect team" to do it. No TF/SF should require a perfect team. Just good players.
[ QUOTE ]
Sheesh why is this thing called LRSF so hard? Is it this hard on the heroic equivalent? if so then it is way too hard if you have to have a "perfect team" to do it. No TF/SF should require a perfect team. Just good players.
[/ QUOTE ]
There is no current heroic equivalent.
I like the team, I might swap out a sonic and put in a
Ice/Cold or Sonic/Cold who is built for AV killing and not pvp.
Best RSF team ive seen bar none is this:
1 Stone/Stone Brute
1 Fire/Fire Brute
3 Radiation Aura/X Corruptor
2 Thermals
1 Traps Mastermind (arrows also works)
With this setup as long as the Granite taunts the big baddies constant and a single thermal stays on him the team can safely take out nearly anything, traps or arrows MM is nice for the added debuff/hold but traps also has a nice addition the FF Generator.
The Thermals have a debuff called Melt Armor, my experience with this skill is that it is stronger at defense debuff than the Radiation skills, but it is single target and not a toggle. The Radiation corruptors can eliminate nearly all regeneration with only three of them, the accuracy and attack power is also cut heavily. With this setup it is frequent to complete the entire SF in under 50 Min given the team is doing the job correctly
[ QUOTE ]
That top-end poison debuff sure is great... if you send a pet into melee range. IMHO, if you're a MM going with ranged pets, you're not as likely to take that power... I know I didn't. So I'm thinking it could be tricky to find an MM who has both ranged pets and (the name escapes me right now) the top-end poison debuff.
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Ok. I can see that, when I read this Re: you had 6 posts. So welcome to the forusm. I would like to give one bit of advise. If you are going to make comment about a thread, read the original post... no, I mean actully read it. Ill even narrow down what I am talking about. The two biggest paragraphs in the my post are about the MasterMind. One deals witht the primary and the other deals with the secondary. Ill quote the one about the primary.
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Anyway, some may wonder why I chose thugs. Well we know that they are arguably the highest damage MM primary, but thats not why. If you remember earlier, I said that melee pets were bad. As I say that, you may wonder why in the world I would want a bruiser then... Hold on, dont get ahead of me. Take a look at the little thugs. They do ok damage, but are quite squishy, the enforvers change all that. If you slot your enforcers with defense SOs (which, if you have 3 nuclolis, you can still have 3 damage and 3 acc), their maneuvers that they supply your henchmen with (including themselves) will equal close to 45% in total. Add the Corruptors running their manuevers (see below in the part where i talk about corrs) and your pets will have their defense pretty much to their ceiling. Not to mention they are ranged with their guns and fire attacks. All but the Bruiser. Now, I have a thugs/psn I've been tryin to level. I was planning on mercs since they are all ranged, but then I thought of somthing. The bruiser is, essentially, a brute. It is quite tough and can take a good hit or 2 before dieing. Buff it a tad with some sonic buffs and it's even tougher. Ok, so the bruiser is good... but think harder. The level 38 poison power I mentioned... it affects all enemies around one HENCHMAN... so the bruiser is perfect! It runs right to where it needs to be and has the highest chance of surviving than all other MM pets at melee range with an AV/Hero. The only reason I didn't put more /Poison MMs in this super team is that MMs are the squishiest AT and tend to die no matter the situation... if they are in the fight that is. Plus, too many pets can be a hinderance to the team.
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See that right there? No? ok, let me narrow it down further.
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The bruiser is, essentially, a brute. It is quite tough and can take a good hit or 2 before dieing. Buff it a tad with some sonic buffs and it's even tougher. Ok, so the bruiser is good... but think harder. The level 38 poison power I mentioned... it affects all enemies around one HENCHMAN... so the bruiser is perfect! It runs right to where it needs to be and has the highest chance of surviving than all other MM pets at melee range with an AV/Hero.
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The Thugs are largly ranged with guns and good damage until you get to the bruiser, he is basically a SS/Inv brute with a poor AI (he makes stupid desicions and needs to be micromanaged to be at best efficiency.) So while your other henchies are hanging back out of Aoes, you have your own brute in there carrying the poison debuff to the apropriate AV/Hero. He is melee.
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Sheesh why is this thing called LRSF so hard? Is it this hard on the heroic equivalent? if so then it is way too hard if you have to have a "perfect team" to do it. No TF/SF should require a perfect team. Just good players.
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There is no current heroic equivalent.
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Heroic as in the lowest difficulty setting. I thought it was villianous but wasn't sure.
Having done the RSF more times than I wish to count, Here is my team.
1 anything/Stone Brute
2 " " /Kin
2 " " /Rad
1 " " /thermal
************* I have tanked the RSF with 6 ppl and knowing I can do it makes the last 2 spots for the most part pitty slots or Icing on the cake but for the "perfect team"
1 more anyting/Rad
1 more " " /kin/thermal
I perfer Ice and Dark Primary powers but fire also has a good AOE. Also WE usally can but together this team and run 2-3 RSFs a night and most of the Corr I take have the Leadership Pool, FYI leadership PAWNS rsf. IMO and I got 1 brute and 4 Corr for RSF ALL (brute has no ven) have the complete Leadership Set.
Pointers:
If possible Respec your toons to be just RSF:
Leadership
NO Rain attacks, as they make the Heros run and you loose the herd and agro.
1 toon with TP friend and Invis, to skip parts of the rsf you dont need to do.
I was putting together a /dark build for RSF.
A strange thought occurred to me. Would Black Hole finally find a good use here? If your team does a frontal assault, this is probably useless, but if you pull and get too many heros, I can't think of a power that resists this. If you can target it so its radius hits some but not all heros, this puts them out of commision for up to 60 seconds.
I looked back for a dozen pages and found nothing like this topic, So here goes...
What would be the perfect RSF team? I believe everyone could agree on what would make a good RSF team, but as far as the perfect one, there would be many opinions. So...
Disclamer: Please understand that this post is my opinion and may not be the best. And while many of you reading this may be in one of those Super Groups that has the same uber team run every day and you know the RSF like the back of your hand, there will be some reading this that have to depend on a small group of friends to start with and complete the team with a make shift PuG. Also note that all the information that I have and list is from experience and numbers from Hero Builder. I am not a number cruncher, but I am good at math. Remeber this as you read the rest of my post
That aside, I would like to clarify what I mean by an RSF team, or what is needed for it in particular. When I think of, or consider, a player/toon for the RSF, I must consider the toughest obstical to overcome. The Freedom Phalanx. I base a toons effectiveness by powers on what they can do to a very strong AV/Hero. Basically the last mission. I know that any somewhat-balanced PuG can complete the first, second and third missions. And it doesn't take much more power to defeat the Vindicators in the fourth mission. In fact, before I finally was on my first succesfull RSF, there was only one time out of a dozen that I was on a team that could not beat the Vindies, and that was because one or two people left and the others were giving up.
So with the last mission as a focal point, there are two main things that you need to worry about. They are (1), survivability, or the ability at wich you can mitigate (avoid, by either resistance, regeneration, defense or just plain healing) the damage of the Heroes; And (2), obviously, being able to actually defeat the heroes. This is done with damage and debuffs, and is what is covered mostly after the list of ATs.
These 2 points are, in my opinion, equally important. Some may argue otherwise but I beg to differ. If your team can not handle the damage output of an AV/Hero, it doesn't matter how much burst damage you have, or how much damage you can stream, you'll die to the alpha strike without the mitigation. On the other hand, if all you have are support players, sure, they can heal and buff all day, but without enough damage, you'll never be able to counteract the regeneration rate of the hero. This happened to me. At one point, with a 6 person team, we defeated all of the FP but States, and could not... I mean, could NOT kill the Superman wannabe.
One other important thing to consider is that you will definatly want some good Resurrection powers on the team. Even the best team will have wipes every now and then. Since much of the mitigation used on the RSF is Defense and much of it works well because of ToHit Debuffs, there is the wild card of the 5% accuracy rule. Basically, if a level 50 /Super Reflexes scrapper agroed a level 1 Hellion long enough (with confront maybe) for the Hellion to attack 100 times, then, according to the numbers, the Hellion would hit the scrap 5 times. So, any team could have a bad day and lose three or more at one time to a Hero on the RSF. And if you rush the FP, your almost guaranteed a wipe or two. The hands-down best rez for this situation is the Dark Miasma rez, Howling Twilight. It rezes all within a PBAoE, and also has some nice debuffs.
Anyway, here is the team makeup that I came up with and then I'll explain myself.
Brute Super Streangth / Stone Armor
Brute Super Streangth / Invulnerability
MasterMind Thugs / Poison
Corruptor Radiation Blast / Radiation Emission
Corruptor Sonic Blast / Sonic Resonance
Corruptor Sonic Blast / Sonic Resonance
Corruptor Sonic Blast / Kinetics
Corruptor Dark Blast / Dark Miasma
Now, I'm sure many people are going to read the list and then stop reading and flame, but I'll explain each AT and powerset.
First, obviously attempting the RSF whithout brutes is just not smart unless trying to prove a point. So if you want a Synthetic Hamidon Origin enhancement (SHOe) and that is your main goal, brutes are pretty much necessary. Also, there is no doubt, no tougher brutes than Stone Armor brutes in granite properly slotted. Hard to hit because of high defense and if you do hit them, they got the high damage resistance. Some even run Tough and Weave from the fighting pool to help boost their damage resistance as high as they can. However on this team, it won't be necessary because sonic corrs have bubbles similar to FF except they provide damage resistance instead of defense. But more on that later. So, stone can take a hell of a beating. Running a close second is Invulnerability. Why not both stone? Well, it has been my experience that one stone running taunt SOs in mud pots and also using the Taunt power will take more agro than the Inv brute as long as he doesnt taunt, so no need to have a second Stoner that is slower, recharges powers slower, and does less damage. The reason I chose Super Streangth is that for single target attack, it's amazing with full fury. And rage is just so much more amazing... *shudders* From my experience and IMO, SS is best for single target damage. And thats what we want on the last mission, focus on one at a time.
Now, with the MM... I know that most ppl dont really think MMs are very good for the RSF. And for the most part, they are right. Unless the pets are ranged, they will not last long, 'cause the aoes put off by the Heroes will kill the pets so fast, it's really not funny. On top of that, the MM's debuffs and such are usually (dependant on the power) at 25% less than that of a Corruptor. So if you have a MM with melee pets, you'll usually have a weak corr with little or no attacks... however, if you take a look at the numbers for /Poison, they will astound you. They have the strongest debuffs on the Villain side. The level 38 power is an ENORMOUS debuff that is placed on a chosen henchman. The henchman is unefected by it, but ALL enemies around him are drastically effected by it. A whopping 35% decrease in defense, damage resistance, damage potential, and accuracy. That power alone beats any other single power in any one of those attributes on the villain side. In fact, its the strongest single debuff for resistance and defense, even compared to rad defenders... no kidding. (Rad defender's Radiation Infection: 30% -Acc, -Def. Rad defender's Enervating Field: 23% -Resistance, 32% -Damage.) Ok, so thats one power. Take a look at the second and third powers in /Poison. Envenom: 30% debuff for (deep breath) Regeneration, defense, resistance, blah blah blah... amazing power in and of itself, and... it stacks. With 2 recharge SOs in it, and without missing, you can stack a constant three on an enemey. Then there is weaken, which I didn't have numbers for because Hero Builder didnt have them. However, it did say that the debuffs were severe in -acc and -dmg. Plus, all the effects that the target could put out are also dropped a mag (magnitude) or 2. Basically all the mezz, heal, buffing, and end drain blah blah blah... basically would make an average PvPer feel like a lvl 1, lol. J/K
Anyway, some may wonder why I chose thugs. Well we know that they are arguably the highest damage MM primary, but thats not why. If you remember earlier, I said that melee pets were bad. As I say that, you may wonder why in the world I would want a bruiser then... Hold on, dont get ahead of me. Take a look at the little thugs. They do ok damage, but are quite squishy, the enforvers change all that. If you slot your enforcers with defense SOs (which, if you have 3 nuclolis, you can still have 3 damage and 3 acc), their maneuvers that they supply your henchmen with (including themselves) will equal close to 45% in total. Add the Corruptors running their manuevers (see below in the part where i talk about corrs) and your pets will have their defense pretty much to their ceiling. Not to mention they are ranged with their guns and fire attacks. All but the Bruiser. Now, I have a thugs/psn I've been tryin to level. I was planning on mercs since they are all ranged, but then I thought of somthing. The bruiser is, essentially, a brute. It is quite tough and can take a good hit or 2 before dieing. Buff it a tad with some sonic buffs and it's even tougher. Ok, so the bruiser is good... but think harder. The level 38 poison power I mentioned... it affects all enemies around one HENCHMAN... so the bruiser is perfect! It runs right to where it needs to be and has the highest chance of surviving than all other MM pets at melee range with an AV/Hero. The only reason I didn't put more /Poison MMs in this super team is that MMs are the squishiest AT and tend to die no matter the situation... if they are in the fight that is. Plus, too many pets can be a hinderance to the team.
Ok, Corruptors. First I want to say that in this perfect team, all support ATs (including the MM) should have full leadership. Including Vengeance of course. Now, my choice of corrs will be a bit tough to convince people on. Most will want (in a team with an mm and 2 brutes) three rad, one kin, and one dark. That would make a great team, don't get me wrong, but, I beleive that sonic corrs are largely overlooked. Check this out. We all know rad destroys defense. Ok, that's great. But after defense is so low, we can hit the target no matter how much more you lessen the defense. But, damage resistance will always get better and better when stacked higher and higher. While rad has one power that has a constant -22.5% res debuff, sonic is going to be much better at that. Here's the numbers.
Sonic Resonance
Sonic Siphon: 18.5% res debuff, duration: 30 seconds (Hero Builder says 40, but arena tests show 30) Does not stack
Disruption Field: 11.25% res debuff, duration: constant (toggle, ally, AoE)
Sonic Blast
Most attacks have a 13% res debuff that has a duration of 4 seconds and they stack with each attack that hits, average number of stacked debuffs from one sonic corr's attacks: 3
So... 18.5 + 11.25 + (13)3 = 68%. Not to mention that sonic has some pretty good damage. And, what's more. The level 38 power for /sonic has a 11.25% accuracy and defense debuff. This is why I chose 2 sonic/sonic corrs and chose sonic for the primary for the kin. With one rad corr and 6 toons runnin tactics, there should be no problem hitting the Heroes, so in this team we focus heavily on -resistance.
As for the kin, a stoner needs them to be effective. No debates about that. But any good player will tell you that sb is one of the top buffs in the game, even for non melee. Plus with FS, Transfusion, Transferance, ID, and all the other goodies that make Kinetics great, any team is smart for taking a kin. Now, as for the dark corr, it's got a great heal that has a nice debuff attacked to it and an awesome rez. But it doesn't stop there. Tar Patch is a great -res power too with 27.26% and with three recharge SOs it's almost perma, add one shot of SB and it stacks for a few seconds. Plus dark has great ToHit Debuffs and a great +stealth +defense +restance power. Not much not to love with a dark. I paired it up with Dark Blast so that alltogether it will have better ToHit debuffs. We all know why rad is good, so I wont go there... except 2 words. AM... lol
One more thing on powers plus a couple tips. Like I said before, all support ATs should have full Leadrship. 6 tactics will almost guarantee accuracy at its ceiling (6 toons with tactics 3 slotted with ToHit buff SOs, or 6 x 15.6% = 93.6%.) And 6 people runnin maneuvers will make the accuracy debuffs much better(25% total from maneuvers) And even with just 5 Corrs runnin Assault, thats a 75% increase in damage. Vengenace is self explanatory. Now, someone should obviously have recall friend for the Vengeance trick and to help others get around. Probably the stoner. Another should have the medicine pool. At least aid other and the rez. That way we have one mass rez (dark) the rad rez, and the poison rez (dont use this on the brutes in the middle of a fight, it will eventually make their toggle drop and be held for a moment.) And one more should have the stealth pool, for getting through certain parts of the SF for shortcuts, and have Grant Invis so my pulls are better, lol. I also have found that if 3-4 people spam holds that are well slotted, they can hold Synapse down do keep the wimp from runnin all over.
Ok, now, one last thing before I put on my flame retardant suit. This team is obviously overkill. And you could take out a sonic corr and add a stalker, dom or nothing and still do great. Remember, my point here is to design the perfect or Ub3r LRSF team. And thats what I think this would be.
happy Re:ing