LittleAxe

Best RSF team ive seen bar none is this:

1 Stone/Stone Brute
1 Fire/Fire Brute
3 Radiation Aura/X Corruptor
2 Thermals
1 Traps Mastermind (arrows also works)

With this setup as long as the Granite taunts the big baddies constant and a single thermal stays on him the team can safely take out nearly anything, traps or arrows MM is nice for the added debuff/hold but traps also has a nice addition the FF Generator.

The Thermals have a debuff called Melt Armor, my experience with this skill is that it is stronger at defense debuff than the Radiation skills, but it is single target and not a toggle. The Radiation corruptors can eliminate nearly all regeneration with only three of them, the accuracy and attack power is also cut heavily. With this setup it is frequent to complete the entire SF in under 50 Min given the team is doing the job correctly

YAY IM A FOLLOWER!

almost exactly what I am trying to say, Stalkers without AS is as effective as a blaster trying to tank. The AT is balanced and a nerf would in fact Break the AT

Ok lets take your reasoning into account, lets remove Assassin's strike for the reason that when used on another player it has a good chance of killing the other player provided the stalker is hitting close to damage cap. And while we are at it lets make Nova a close range single target medium damage attack as well, oh yeah lets also limit the number of mines to 2 at a time, increase the recharge of caltrops, Make TP foe give the foe detention shield for 15 seconds, Oh yeah and make sniper attacks do 3 damage. Everyone here would be happy with pvp right??????


WRONGO buddy

Eliminate AS or reduce the damage by 1/2 even would make stalkers uneffective in pvp and even less effective solo in pve

Nova would also be useless

TP foe would be pointless

Mines wouldnt kill anything

Sniper shot would be a taunt and end up killin the users

Caltrops wouldnt be worth anything

So this would "Balance everything according to your POV"

I got a better idea! lets make PVP Turn based! That would give everyone time to do what they want! Each person could attack once per turn and eliminate suprise attacks entirely!

Enjoy your dream, in fact, keep it your dream. I for one have no problem with stalkers, blasters, tankers, khelds, scrappers, defenders, controllers, brutes, corruptors, masterminds. All of them have weaknesses, all of them have strengths, focus on your weakness and you will find how to remedy it.

And for the record, I think you should find a way to loosen up about gettin killed in pvp, instead of gettin all riled up about a post someone puts on the boards defending a very well balanced AT why dont you go have fun doin PVE, I am sure that the NPC mobs wont post how you are overpowered to them.

I believe that the Assassin strike attack (when I say that I mean Assassin Strike/claw/blade/etc to the troll who responded before) is the only attack that Stalkers can pull off with relatively little danger (there is always the chance of missing or being spotted before an attack). Sure if they placate they can pull off another in quick succession but the problem with this is with non target AOE's it is viable to still damage said stalker.

and btw, every comic hero gets beaten easily once, learns from it, then goes out there and kicks extreme hiney. Wolverine beaten by Magneto, stripped of his adamantium then developed Bone claws.....Storm had to forcibly overcome her clostrophobia, Jean was "beaten" by the spirit of Dark Phoenix, and with Rogue's help overcame it and became more powerful because of it

One thing I have noticed in this thread is the confusion around "Alpha Strikes" and "one shotting" being one and the same. No they are not. With a one shot you have just that. One shot One kill. Using a battery of attacks at once is just that a battery of attacks. In other words multiple attacks in rapid sequence to do as much damage as possible. Lets break this down a bit so I can clarify myself further.


Assassin Strike. The Stalkers greeting card of sorts. This attack does massive damage when the stalker is hiding. This is broken up into two words. Assassin: N One who murders by surprise attack, especially one who carries out a plot to kill a prominent person. And Strike: V To hit sharply, as with the hand, the fist, or a weapon.

Well An assassin strike means roughly a sharp hit by someone meant to murder another person. An Assassin. I wonder why they would call it assassin strike if you couldn't in theory kill a foe in a single blow...... Wow ya know?

Lets break up the term Alpha Strike so its understood better. A series of attacks in rapid sucession to do as much damage as possible. I will use my Stone Brute's powers for this comparison vs a +2 boss while my granite armor is on (im a brute but I aint stupid!) I did it this way to best simulate the pvp situation to my ability because frankly in warburg I have trouble finding test subjects

My strike consists of Tremor, Seismic Smash, Brawl, Stone Mallet, Heavy Mallet, and buildup

Fury bar at 50%

Brawl: 30 dmg
Seismic smash: 238 dmg
Heavy mallet: 158 dmg
Stone mallet: 118 dmg
Tremor: 62 dmg

Total damage: 602

This is a battery of 5 attacks with buildup and 50-55% fury and Granite armor vs a +2 boss (council human type)

I use the same battery of attacks on people in SC or WB after a TP foe to take enough health off of them to let my team finish them off. Now I brought up tp foe because of one simple reason, if you are Stone/stone and you want to have defense of any kind you need Granite/rooted which means you cant jump, cant run, all they can do is keep you in range of the hammer.

Nerf Stalkers? Nah leave em alone, it takes 4 to kill me in WB and thats if I havent popped a purple (note I said A purple as in 1). AS is a wonderous power that can kill quickly and it is the bread and butter of being a stalker, all I have heard here from 85% of the posters is that stalkers need AS nerfed big time. Stalkers are quite balanced in damage output and defense, extreme damage, defense is low enough to if you get your hands on them they crumble, kind of like a short range blaster that hides better.

All this endless "nerf them they killed me" talk is just going to confuse the devs into believing they messed up. I am not saying they havent messed up before, they have admitted to it on a few occasions. What I am saying, however, is that if you try some fresh tactics (the knowledge not the click power) you will find that Stalkers are quite balanced, so much so that if you go stalker watching (one of my fav things to do btw) you can see how often they dont land a target, accidentally step on some caltrops, etc.......

The real problem with pvp in general is people keep seeing the same l33t people out there as certain AT's killing hoards of others with TPfoe/team alpha or buildup/AS/placate/focus. I have a solution to everyone's problem.

Dont get stressed out because someone is better at something than you, feel at ease that there are people out there even better than that person, and when they arrive , I am sure Ill see the post that the better person's AT is gonna be on the boards with the l33t person saying they need to be nerfed.

Good day

Little Axe

I did say that you could use them in solo play and using an alphastrike on a single player is what you would do to a mob anyway. Every single pvp MMO I have played except this one.....Encourages using your strongest chain of attacks on the enemy to eliminate them as soon as possible...

My question to you would be, "Why is it that alpha striking should be viewed in such a negative light when it is this effective on single targets?". And for the record you arent exactly granted a sure escape because even a stalker (who have been the topic for much of this thread) have 8 seconds after attacking of NO STEALTH before they can hide again, now I admit travel powers will pound this to about 2 seconds for someone to eliminate them after they eliminated a teamate or other solo player.

I am trying to encourage teaming, but solo play can be just as fun in PVP because you can Alphastrike

Here is how pvp works

Tactics are used to eliminate the enemy as quickly as possible. I see every battle I have ever participated in as fair. Now let me show you the 3 basic strategies that are used in the various areas to quickly wipe out competition by experienced pvpers.


1. Bait and snatch. A weaker AT without stealth (or with grant invis for his teamates) will go out into the open to lure people out enough to get the AT with either a snipershot or AS to hit the enemy with an alpha unawares. This can also be done with AT's with high defense.

2 Ambush, Just like it sounds, a full group on a single person. This is also referred to as a "gank" or "griefing".

3 Seperation, You get your team in and select your individuals with the melee characters and while the melee characters are pounding individuals you lead them into a blast radius of a corruptor/blaster. Not as clean as the other two but still effective in the right consistency.


I know I left 2 more out HUge nuke and snowplow, because they arent useful in this particular game in pvp Mainly because hugenuke can be countered by people with stealth capped and snowplow doesnt exist anymore because of limits on powers being so low.

Now why did I post these strategies. Because they are not only effective but they are team strategies. I will admit there are solo pvpers out there who do the ambush and even some that use a bait and snatch of sorts (blasters are very effective if they have devices).

I enjoy pvp in all forms, because it makes you think outside the box to the extent that you have to use these tactics in a creative way to achieve the goal, the assassination of a player. In my Honest Opinion, this thread is to get rid of 2 of the three tactics used here making it a wall vs another wall instead of putting actual tactics into play.

TP Foe is not overpowered in any way as it is. I went up against 4 stalkers last night to test this (im a stone/stone brute) I did not die even one time until I dropped everything and let them kill me so I could go eat. and yes this is with them ASing me constantly. I diddnt even have to pop a green granted im not one of the squishier ATs. the only tactic they could use to even come close to making me sweat was the ambush, and here we are saying ambush striking is overpowered and should be nerfed.

Now everyone, tell me why im wrong!

/end discussion

[ QUOTE ]
What you're doing is attempting to construct a logical argument, and you're doing it exactly right.

You start with a universally true premise, then you apply that premise to a specific situation within the universal truth. That's "deductive reasoning" since you're deducing from the universal to the specific.

For example. Premise: PvP isn't fun unless you're a Stalker or a Stalker Hunter. Given: There are other players besides Stalkers and Stalker Hunters. Deduction: PvP isn't fun for those players.

The argument is rock-solid. The Given is accurate and the Deduction follows very smoothly and logically from the given and the premise.

In order to deconstruct that logical argument, the PREMISE would have to be deconstructed. In other words, one would have to present a counter-example that proved that the premise is NOT, in fact, universally true, in which case any deduction derived from that premise would be suspect.

Therefore, logically, if there is a single person playing CoH/V that is neither a Stalker nor a Stalker Hunter that enjoys PvP, the logical argument is deconstructed.

I'm sure we can find one.

[/ QUOTE ]

I play a Stone/Stone brute and I have a blast reguardless, of course it is fun playing bait for stalker killers at times too, but solo vs tankers there isnt a bigger high for me

Actually Stalkers have a difficult time one shotting anything without popping more reds than you can name to hit their absolute damage cap with buildup to one shot anyone and even then its defenders and blasters which teamed is scuicide to a stalker reguardless. I see the one shot one kill strategy more effective for blasters (although as castle pointed out earlier it is really 4 shots in one) than for stalkers. Stalkers are the second most likely to die in combat following dominators by a slim margin. But one thing a stalker has going for him/her is the fact that its much easier for a stalker to hit stealth cap than other AT's. And for the record if AS gets a nerf it will take the one trick away from the one trick pony that is a stalker. You might as well take fury from the brutes, scourge from the corruptors, dominate from the dominators, the lvl 26 pet from masterminds, and the heroes might quit complaining that Villians have any sort of advantage that we never had in the first place. This is a level playfield people, every war needs a strategy and the most effective one in ANY war is end it as quickly and cleanly as possible. So I have no problem with 8 blasters with stealth hitting my stone/stone brute with snipe and killing me in 1 wave of attacks, it means they are using a simple yet effective strategy.

wanna make the game more difficult and less fun? keep complaining!

[ QUOTE ]

I'm also aware that TP Foe is a big issue in PvP. In our internal testing, my Stone/Stone Brute used it to great affect on opposing targets.

[/ QUOTE ]

Shhhhh castle. you are makin it so my stone/stone brute's tactics are gettin out there bad dev, no cookie

Well I would show you my fire room but sadly......1015 torches/burning objects is well........not enough for the graphics engine to handle and therefore I cant show anyone, including my sg members. while I was making it you were walking on fire the entire room. that was SCHWEET! but alas the graphics engine of the game limits to 1014 items (game crashed on the 1015th and now nobody can get into the base) hopefully its fixed soon and ill rethink my design.