Highly Improved version... I think...
By
Aaron123,
Posted on: 2006-08-29 17:10 in Multi-Media Fan Creations
[ QUOTE ]
I notice that threads with more than a page sometimes don't get any attention (or much) when bumped
[/ QUOTE ]Orly?
My bitterness aside, it looks a lot better. The only thing I can see wrong atm is that the left (her right) kneecap is just a *tad* lower than it should be. It's really slight.
It's a cute picture! My commentary: she's a bit skinny in the arms. They don't look nearly strong enough to be holding up that hammer. What I would recommend is buying some muscle and health magazines that have both women and men in them, and looking at how muscles form on the skeleton. Her hands are different sizes, and aside from making the arms bigger around I'd choose the larger of the two hand sizes to use. The small size makes her look WAY too delicate.
Otherwise: great clothing and folds! It's a reasonably good pose, not very dynamic but also not botched in any way. Pretty good proportions, though I'd say if you wanted her to look more heroic, make her head slightly smaller or her legs slightly longer, to bring her to 7-7.5 heads high. She's a realistic 6.5 right now, which is good for regular folks. Heroes often go much taller. (and I've seen some anime/manga - 5 star stories to be precise - which the characters were actually 13 heads high. THIRTEEN>..... teeeeeny little heads, loooong bodies, but they looked so cool... anyway. um. yeah. 7.5 is heroic as a start.)
Keep it up, because this picture is quite good already. And, be prepared to continue re-drawing and drawing more and more, because that's the only way to really 'get' better at it!
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Yeah. I'm just pretty upset. The only improvement in 6 years of drawing seems to have been my clothing folds and my portraits. I admit, I only started trying full bodies again recently... but... gah.
The actual character isn't 'really' tall so I didn't want to overdo the height... still may need to make her a bit taller though, she looks too 'girly' and not very 'womanly'. I dunno why I make people so skinny... I've always done 'trim' but now its just... annoying even me. The sad part? I made extra effort on this one to increase the bulk, even though it went down. blah
Between this and my writing crapping out on me; maybe I should just get a regular job or something. I've been drawing seriously since I was 16, I'm 23... and still not very good at all.
Blah don't mind me, I'm just having a bad day. Don't feel like playing, barely feel like forum hopping. Stupid brain.
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Meh - it happens! 
May I ask what your sketch-to-finish process is? How much sketching do you do, what type of figures do you draw to put a 'skeleton' under your final work? It's possible that what you need is just to alter how you look at the 'insides' of a figure to see the outsides change.
For instance: for the longest time I only ONLY ever drew round heads (ovals). I didn't bother doing anything else, until I saw Jim Lee do it. In 2 minutes he'd drawn this beautiful full figure with a handsome face and all that jazz. And all it was: squares and triangles.
I tried it out. I went to making wedge-shapes, noses, high bald heads, etc etc. Almost literally over night. I don't necessarily *always* do it that way, but it's something to learn and keep in mind. Drawing basic figures *does* require drawing basic objects (and the hammer's pretty good, so...) - they're on in the same when you look at them in a particular way.
Do you own any of the How To Draw Manga books? Because there are 2 or 3 of them that I highly recommend (basically, the first two and one or more of the specifics later in the series) to get the essentials of drawing not just figures but scenes and objects.
But don't stop trying. I'm probably gonna challenge you to do something you've never done, when you're in the mood.
Please read my FEAR/Portal/HalfLife Fan Fiction!
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I have How to Draw Manga: Manga Mania; and How to Draw Giant Robots. Both are kinda neat... but other than a basic start neither helped me much... I don't seem to learn from text well (despite using them for almost 4 years).
The way I do it currently is...
I draw a line for the shoulders (ie: if you laid a yardstick across the person's shoulders, where would it be?) then I draw a line for the hips (If you put same said yardstick through their hips sideways).
Then I draw a line straight through the middle, well not straight exactly.. but 'roughly' to indicate their posture. Then I do everything from there, using the space between the two 'yardsticks' to guide the creation of the torso and hips, and then draw a stick figure as my basic bone structure.
Heads tend to be circles or ovals, depending, if I do a circle, I'll mold the chin out of it. If its an oval, I don't have to do too much chinwise.
Very very very frustrated with myself.
All advice is appreciated. I don't want to quit, but its like... I've tasted failure constantly this whole time... I've had *2* what I'd call "successful" projects... 1 was that portrait I put up awhile back (the one listed as my personal best - it was); the other was coloring Crimson_Jimson's CuppaJo.
Still slowly working on coloring the pic of Yumii he did for me, which was awesome. Its slow going for alot of reasons but I'll not go into it.
Thanks for trying to help btw; doing my best to improve... have been since I started on these forums and for awhile I really thought I was... now its like the bottom fell out.
A Warrior's Friend: ID 335212 - Help Infernal save Valkyrie from Battle Maiden.
Above Mars Part 1: The Wellington: ID 159769 - Save Mars by destroying a monstrous battleship from the inside!
>.> My DA page, where I attempt to art.
Here's my biased advice!
Drawing for Manga type books are crap. Anything that is highly stylized isn't a good way to learn how to draw. The artists that pioneered the style have already done too much of the work of stylization for you, and left out some important things you might need to know.
Secondly, you should be thinking of your basic shapes as 3-dimensional shapes, not 2d. Think "sphere" not "circle" Think "box" not "square."
The starting with shoulders and hips is a weird way to start to me. This post might be followed by a flood of posts from people who draw well who say they do it that way, but I've never seen it and I certainly don't draw that way. I'd suggest starting with a line that will go right down the center of the torso, following the spine. This way you can free yourself up from drawing everyone straight-on, but still keep track of where everything goes. In Dynamic Figure Drawing, Burne Hogarth suggests that the best way to create a solid pose is to start by drawing the wedge shape for the hips, then move to the torso. Legs next, then arms, and the head for last. Going in this order really helps you keep the weight of the figure.
Stay with the basics for a LONG time. One common misconception is that details make a drawing good. Horsefeathers! Make sure you're drawing a figure with good solid weight and balance and solid dimensional forms before you start in with the detail. It will make that go much easier.
Don't get discouraged. The process of improving is never a straight upward line. There will always be periods of less growth or perhaps a couple steps back. Just take these as they come and keep pressing on.
My only disagreement with the above post: the FIRST and SECOND how to draw manga books are *not manga specific* which is why I recommend them. They cover things like how to hold a pencil, pen, what kind of ink to use, when to use a ruler, etc. The other book covers figure drawing basics like proportions, poses, etc. After those, they went into very specific things which are great if you already know how to draw, but need references.
Otherwise, I heartily agree. I start with spines, because that gives me a feel for the way a body is going to flow. (... Then again I draw a LOT of dragons, long flowing things. With nothing but spine...)
I mean, I'm no genius artist. But when you feel around the 3-d aspect of the character or object it does come to life more fully.
If you can't find the first books in a local store, I'm positive that they're available online.
How to Draw Manga - NOT "manga mania" - they're very different books.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/488...e&n=283155
vol 2.
http://www.amazon.com/How-Draw-Manga...571965?ie=UTF8
There are a lot of immitators. They pretty much resoundingly suck BECAUSE they're stuck on 'just' the manga-STYLE aspect of it. The real thing are actually helpful art books in most respects. (Yes, I sold them, yes i own them, no I don't draw manga in the slightest. The book I'd worry most about ruining anyone's style is that old How to Draw Comics the Marvel Way - but that's another rant entirely.)
Please read my FEAR/Portal/HalfLife Fan Fiction!
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I've been considering trying a 'fine arts' approach recently... partly just because while I *LOVE* manga (obviously)... I think you're right about it not being a good place to start.
I didn't really see that until the last couple weeks -and even then I thought I had merely taken the 'long route'... but I think you're right. Manga is a specialization of art rather than a starting point I guess. I've wished a zillion times that I'd listened to my art teachers... then again she wasn't very good about explaining things. She'd just tell me it wasn't a good style (which made me pretty defensive...) but then I still should have listened.
Blah. I'll keep trying. Very aggravating. It hasn't helped that I've been feeling picked on in RL and in-game lately.
Get so sick of people assuming that because I enjoy the occasional PVPing session, that I must somehow have an IQ sub-90s or something.
Thanks Z, and PMD... gonna try a little more now I think. I spent most of today just seething... so maybe I'll do better.
One thing that *REALLY* frustrates me is how *vastly* different my portraits are from my full-figure drawings too... Portrait wise my only 2 upsets are my eyes (or I should say, the area around the eyes) lacks depth... and my eye shapes are 'eh' (I enjoy the eyes themselves... but the upper and lower defining lines... not so very much).
Blah rambling again! <x.x> Gonna try some more.
I wish I could find some aid for my fiction lol <x.x> I tried starting up something here on the forum (and on another writing forum I frequent, www.nanowrimo.org if anyone here's a writer) - but writing is another story.
Just artistically frustrated on all fronts I guess, thanks for not giving up on me >.<
A Warrior's Friend: ID 335212 - Help Infernal save Valkyrie from Battle Maiden.
Above Mars Part 1: The Wellington: ID 159769 - Save Mars by destroying a monstrous battleship from the inside!
>.> My DA page, where I attempt to art.
Not much to add, but I also start with the spine/torso, then move to the soulders and hips. Then losely to a single line for arm and leg placement. The head is generally an oval or even an oval globe combination on which I immediately place my eye nose location marks.
Next, I will usually sketch volume shapes for at least the torso and sometimes the arms and legs depending on the perspective. Most importantly at least for me is I keep it very very lose, sketch lightly and erase often till the base looks right. I am often fighting the urge to detail at time, but you must fight it!!! I am usually 90% happy or more with pose before I even start details. Furthermore, if I am doing someone else character, I will often not even look at the character other than basic body type before I get the pose down. If I am unaware of how the details look, easier to avoid the temptation.
But with all that said, slightly different approached work/don't work for me at different time. I use alot of trial and error.
First let me tell you that your are not bad at all far from it.
Second I would listen to PMD he knows what he is talking about.
This being said dont get discouraged I have been doodling since I can remember and I am 41 yet looking at what some of the artists do here I am reminded regularly how far I have yet to go.
Since I am not a formally trained artist (what I know I know from reading books) I thought my point of vue might be usefull to you.
One thing you have to accept is that no matter how much other poeple love what you do most often you will have something in a piece that you are unsatisfied with. This is normal. _You_ know what you saw in your mind eye before starting to draw, others dont. Much of the dispointement can come from that fact alone. However you can turn this in your favor.
Pick out ONE thing that you are unstisfied about your last picture. it could be either the volumes, the position, perspective, line work etc... but pick only one. before you do your next project give yourself an exercise focussing on that ONE thing. Read the parts of the books you have that pertains to that one thing. When you do your next project pay special attention to that ONE thing.
Normally at the end you will find that you have improved that ONE thing. Now repeat the process.
This has the advantage that in every picture you see something improving and it focuses your eyes when looking at your own art. Also it helps when asking for help from others since they also can focus on that one thing you are trying to work on. Saying something like : " I am trying to work on poses, mine are too static I think " will get you more precise and usful answers than " this picture is no good what should I do?"
I am not sure if it helps but I do hope it does
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Thanks hehe <~_~>
I think its just been that between my art and writing not going well, my RL being farked (I don't get to go back to college as planned... lost my financial aid over something really silly); and my in-game fun being heavily curtailed lately (ie: some disagreements with people that have really pushed my patience to the limit - and believe you me, I'm a pretty patient guy!)
But anyways >.< yeah, I'll keep trying. Hopefully I'll improve >.< My friend emailed me and well, she said some things that helped alot too <~.~> I'm lucky, for being such an overemotional ball of fluff I've got tons of support out there. Haven't slept yet so I'm probably a little incoherent hehe <T_T>;
But anyways, I appreciate everything, the comments, the tips, the support... all of it.
Hopefully I can just get my tail back to art >.< sick of feeling like a stupid drama queen <-.->;
<whips out pencils> >.> Once more into the breach! <charges drawing table>
A Warrior's Friend: ID 335212 - Help Infernal save Valkyrie from Battle Maiden.
Above Mars Part 1: The Wellington: ID 159769 - Save Mars by destroying a monstrous battleship from the inside!
>.> My DA page, where I attempt to art.
Hi. NPG here. In Hong Kong where I live, manga is the majority of comic form, so it is not so stylized for me. And in all those years of manga I read, there are many many different styles.
My point is, like other said, first learn the basics anatomy. But after that, follow your heart to draw the style you like, whether it is fine art, cartoon, comic, or in my case, manga, which I am still learning.
Yay another Nanoite!! What's your forum name there (not that the forums are open yet)? Last year was the only year I've failed to get my 50k, but my world was falling apart so I blame reality. It's a great exersize, I try and encourage anyone who's expressed 'I write a little' to do it.
Please read my FEAR/Portal/HalfLife Fan Fiction!
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There I'm "mistharm" which is basically my ultra-generic non-squirrely name <x.x>; I didn't think I'd wind up posting so much.
The forums there have been up year round btw... they don't ever shut down!
Last year was my first year, I only got 24k <_ _>; This year I'm hoping to get 50k with my new project... if the motivation will strike me to work on the damn thing. /sigh. I need a NaNo Plano >.>
A Warrior's Friend: ID 335212 - Help Infernal save Valkyrie from Battle Maiden.
Above Mars Part 1: The Wellington: ID 159769 - Save Mars by destroying a monstrous battleship from the inside!
>.> My DA page, where I attempt to art.
lol Yeah - I have mine all planned out, until I decide to take it in another direction, which alters the whole genetic/generation chart I make every year... SO I'm not just writing the history of my RPG world. No. I'm writing a rather flexible database while I'm at it. Flexible = scribbled on, scratched out, changed, updated.
I'm Lethe Katherine Gray there, I'll get on and look around when I've got the time, the first couple years they did it, the forums weren't up all year. That's why I haven't even bothered to look, silleh me.
Please read my FEAR/Portal/HalfLife Fan Fiction!
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First - really sorry about making a brand new post out of this; I'd use the old one, but I notice that threads with more than a page sometimes don't get any attention (or much) when bumped >.< and I still need some help <;.;> so err... pardon my forum clogginess; not trying to annoy anyone.
Redrawn
Alright so... as you can see I totally redid it, and I tried to take into account everything mentioned in the previous thread.
I'm happier with the hammer, the legs *should* be about right, arms too... I appear to have made her a little thinner though... not sure I like that <;.;> what's odd is... she fills the same dimensions on the paper (I can put this version over the old version and the lines are close) so I don't know what I'm missing...
A major annoyance is that I somehow lost the more dynamic pose in the process... I dunno >.< I leave it to you, my art forum compatriots... is this better overall, despite the lost dynamicism? I did my best, and I don't think I could re-draw it... I even re-did the eyes twice in photoshop because I hated what I'd done on paper...
One thing I am happier with is the clothing folds.
I dunno >< need tons of feedback here <~.~> Its annoying, I looked back at my old artwork during the Vintage thread... and I feel like I've gone down in skill, not up <>.<> outside of portraits <;.;> blagh. I dunno, its a depressing day for me for some reason. Ok I'm rambling >.< I shuttup now <~.~>
A Warrior's Friend: ID 335212 - Help Infernal save Valkyrie from Battle Maiden.
Above Mars Part 1: The Wellington: ID 159769 - Save Mars by destroying a monstrous battleship from the inside!
>.> My DA page, where I attempt to art.