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27) Brute Attacks do Taunt.
This may be correct, but I wonder why Brutes get Tanker inherent (I'm assuming that it is a version of Gauntlet that is producing the Taunt effect) as well as their own Brute inherent. How is this right? Do Brutes also get a psuedo-Gauntlet to Pool Power attacks? Auras that cause Taunt effects? This does not seem good to me. No wonder Tankers are so hard to find anymore.
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Brute attacks Taunt (single Target), they do not Gauntlet (5-target). So its not quite the same. Right? Wrong? I'm not sure. Brute Auras do also Taunt the same way Tanker ones do. I imagine pool powers do to, but I didn't ask that question. I think we'll get a better feeling for if this is a real balance issue if crossovers do eventually happen.
....if you think about it.. every Attack draws Aggro... which is a form of taunting... its the basic "You hit me so im gonna hit you back"
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Wrong agro and Taunt are not the same. Read through the OP.
Brute attacks litterally Taunt, but only single target.
Thanks Circeus! This is a very informative breakdown that should help debunk some myths about aggro and clarify the "sameness" relationship between Gauntlet and other Taunt effects for players who don't completely understand how things work.
I have a question..
I have taunt the primary power on my Brute.. I attempt to use it in PvP.. what exactly is the effect..?
thanks
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17) Damage done does not affect a Taunt effects effectiveness at any time, ever, not Duration, not AoE, and not Magnitude.
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I could have sworn that the devs said that the damage done by an attack effected the RANGE of the Gauntlet Taunt. I've been going on the assumption that this is the case, as my Tanker draws aggro from remarkable distances, and I always assumed this was due to the fact that I slot damage so heavily.
However, this may not necessarily be due to the actual damage, as you say, and may instead be a factor of the slotting. You state that Taunt Enhancements effect duration, perhaps Damage Enhancements effect AoE.
Unfortunately, having never played many more Tankers than just my main one, I don't really have a comparison. It's also possible that level effects the range, since the few alt Tankers I've played are still much lower level than my main.
I do wonder, however, why the devs would say that damage effects the range if that isn't true. (But then I may be thinking of discussions of the original "punchvoke" concept)
Bridger mistakenly made this claim on the Euro forums. It didn't jive with other information I had, and I sought dev clarification. #17 is the result of that clarification.
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17) Damage done does not affect a Taunt effects effectiveness at any time, ever, not Duration, not AoE, and not Magnitude.
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I could have sworn that the devs said that the damage done by an attack effected the RANGE of the Gauntlet Taunt. I've been going on the assumption that this is the case, as my Tanker draws aggro from remarkable distances, and I always assumed this was due to the fact that I slot damage so heavily.
However, this may not necessarily be due to the actual damage, as you say, and may instead be a factor of the slotting. You state that Taunt Enhancements effect duration, perhaps Damage Enhancements effect AoE.
Unfortunately, having never played many more Tankers than just my main one, I don't really have a comparison. It's also possible that level effects the range, since the few alt Tankers I've played are still much lower level than my main.
I do wonder, however, why the devs would say that damage effects the range if that isn't true. (But then I may be thinking of discussions of the original "punchvoke" concept)
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What was probably meant was that they were related, in the sense that the the radius (and duration) of gauntlet is defined larger for attack powers that do more damage.
I am curious about this note:
10) The Magnitudes of Taunt effects stack differently than other effects in game. Instead they stack from the same source (but not the same power), and do not stack from different sources.
This would indicate that there is a maximum amount or taunt that a single tank could stack on a target, as there's no way for the taunt from the same power to stack on itself. Recharge reducers or taunt durations would have a hard limit as each individual power would would basially just reset the duration timer for that portion rather than overlap and stack as expected.
I'm also not sure why the radius on gauntlet is so low, particlarly now that there is a hard cap on the number of targets that can be aggro'd in total and the number that can be hit by the gauntlet from a single attack. I really wish that range would be expanded by a factor of 2 or so. Testing while the AOE bug was on test seemed to indicate that the very low damage attacks might have a functionally useless radius defined for their gauntlet, and could only hit more than one target if the MOBs were stacked...certainly not large enough to hit 5 MOBs as they were spaced in a normal spawn (even the densly packed spawn in a hazard zone). Maybe it is working correctly and the AOE bug radius was something completely unrelated...if so, I have to wonder where that radius came from.
Formerly "Back Alley Brawler"
Regarding #10, keep in mind #28 as well.
Also, I got no indication that there is a hard cap on Taunt Magnitude, but likely if there is, like most Hard caps, its not achievable in game through normal means. In other words, its meaningless (since there are no Taunt buffs).
But also that the magnitude itself (how much Taunt you do statck) is meaningless in terms of how Taunt works.
I am confused about item 22, is not combustion in the fire melee set, not the fire primary set? So, does it have taunt or gauntlet attached to it?
About item 8, powers like chilling embrace have a status effect attached to them, in this case a slow. My experience has been status effects trump damage for getting aggro. I have duoed with an Ice tank and as soon as they turn on chilling empbrace I loose aggro to them. If they herd a group and I run into the mob, I will not take aggro away from him.
Mainly, just saying thanks for the systematic work done. I, as much as anyone, can appreciate how much effort it takes to assemble this sort of thing. #1, #10, and #28 combined, in particular, remind me of a lot of things I stumbled through weaving my way through accuracy. I can imagine the Q&A on that one.
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I am confused about item 22, is not combustion in the fire melee set, not the fire primary set? So, does it have taunt or gauntlet attached to it?
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For PvP it wouldn't Taunt. For PvE it would. Confusing, but apparently true. My work predates the PvP changes.
On Thorn Casters:
It doesn't take a Tar Patch to inspire "feeling" in them. They naturally have a high level of Cowardice, and will flee to the fringes and attack from range when possible. I have experienced this behaviour on countless missions with all of my characters who are high enough level to face T. Casters. Often, in founders, the first thing Earth thorns who spot me do is turn tail and run 30 yards. 30 seconds later, it's all boulders and stompyness.
On "Feeling":
Fearsome Stare, and other "Cower Fear" powers cannot override "Feeling", be it naturally occuring or power induced.
Many enemies get "feeling" when a large number of their spawn mates are defeated. This can be observed when AOEing packs in hazard zones, notable in my experience are sky raiders.
Other, odd power that causes "Feeling": Howling Twilight. Enemies under this effect attempt to leave the caster's vicinity. Often overlooked due to slow/stun effect minimizing the "feeling" impact. 
Mission Arc: Metatronic Mayhem (Id 1750): A tale of robots gone wrong, rogue robots gone right, and madmen gone every which way but loose.
These are additions that will be valid for I7 and are currently valid for the Test Server:
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33) PvP Only: Gauntlet works for secondary attacks only; primary attacks and auras do not Gauntlet
34) PvP Only: Chances for Gauntlet range from 6.7% to 43.5%
35) PvP Only: The Chances (#34) are calculated in a similar manner as End cost, however they are not directly tied to the End cost it is a completely separate calculation.
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On "Feeling":
Fearsome Stare, and other "Cower Fear" powers cannot override "Feeling", be it naturally occuring or power induced.
Many enemies get "feeling" when a large number of their spawn mates are defeated. This can be observed when AOEing packs in hazard zones, notable in my experience are sky raiders.
Other, odd power that causes "Feeling": Howling Twilight. Enemies under this effect attempt to leave the caster's vicinity. Often overlooked due to slow/stun effect minimizing the "feeling" impact.
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My experience tells me that its very likely that, in fact, Fear contributes to Feeling. Edit: and it may actually be better named "Morale", but "Feeling" is the name I was provided.
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(Except, of course, for "feeling", which is hazy and, apparently, under-represented outside of Burn and fighting very grey enemies.)
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It's also represented in a few other powers. Freezing Rain, for example, or Blizzard. Lots of patch damages seem to express it. It, or something like it, can also be expressed when attacking enemies in a way so that they can't fight back for 10 seconds (ie : slows on enemies with few powers, staying at range).
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True. Though, really, that's only addressing my sidenote. I think the fact that Taunt wholly overrides anything but Burn, Rain of X powers and whatever else is a serious flaw in its design and what makes aggro management (in my opinion) far too simplistic to be fun.
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And your constructive comment for an alternative is WHAT?
Total Focus is a hold, right?
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Oh great. One less excuse to not take Taunt on my Stone/Stone Tanker...
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The Tanker AT's job is to grab aggro and keep it. I don't see why you would not want another power in your arsenal to do so. Unless you are building a "secondary" or "damage" tanker. But then, why be Stone/Stone?
Total Focus is a hold, right?
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Circ (and others),
27) Brute Attacks do Taunt.
This may be correct, but I wonder why Brutes get Tanker inherent (I'm assuming that it is a version of Gauntlet that is producing the Taunt effect) as well as their own Brute inherent.
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well, i believe Brute "gauntlette" is single target, not an AoE, so there is a difference between the two.
of course, once you have an Aura and Taunt (or Provoke), its not like you need a boatload of aggro to hit the cap, so single-target "gauntlette" might end up being just as effective in the long run.
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yeah this is a problem, one which the answer is to make tanks have more to there inherint (imho) rather then do the reverse and take this away from brutes.
I play both and to me the problem overall is tanks need a more exciting, better play purpose in the game.
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Tanks have a great role. Nobody can take the alpha strike like a tank. It's assisting your group too by grabbing aggro that might kill your more vulnerable teamies. Tanking rocks!
If you have a suggestion on how to improve this role please post it in the Tanker or Suggestions and Ideas forum. I'd be eager to see feedback on this. Don't just say "this sucks" without telling folks how to improve on it.
Total Focus is a hold, right?
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(Except, of course, for "feeling", which is hazy and, apparently, under-represented outside of Burn and fighting very grey enemies.)
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It's also represented in a few other powers. Freezing Rain, for example, or Blizzard. Lots of patch damages seem to express it. It, or something like it, can also be expressed when attacking enemies in a way so that they can't fight back for 10 seconds (ie : slows on enemies with few powers, staying at range).
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True. Though, really, that's only addressing my sidenote. I think the fact that Taunt wholly overrides anything but Burn, Rain of X powers and whatever else is a serious flaw in its design and what makes aggro management (in my opinion) far too simplistic to be fun.
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And your constructive comment for an alternative is WHAT?
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Simple: use the already-present "aggro" mechanics instead of a supplementary and overriding mechanic. If Tankers need to grab aggro, let them do it the sensible way: by being a threat. If this is not possible, it's a problem with the AT design.
For proof that the AT is mechanically hamstrung by these other systems, see PvP.
As a sidenote: there's no reason to be so terse. You might cause offense where otherwise unintended.
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11) The Gauntlet buff icon is a placebo; there is no real power behind it. The effects of Gauntlet are built into each power.
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This is not meant to create another problem, but as a tanker I have to say this.
If this is the case, then Tankers don't really posess an inherent power like other AT's do, and the fact that Brutes have taunt built into their attacks and have Fury is just a slap in the face for Tanks. IMHO.
No I'm not asking for them to give Tanks anything that will "unbalance" the system. {thought I haven't figured out where they see any balance.}
Just had to put in my $.02 influence..
From Issue #7 Patch Notes (6/6):
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Tanker's Inherent Power, Gauntlet, now works in PvP. Single target powers have a chance of Taunting the target hit, while Area of Effect powers have a much smaller chance of Taunting all targets in the radius.
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I know this isn't a guide to "aggro" or "hate" but I just read this: Bridger on AV AI changes
In the UK forums and it pointed to something I hadn't heard about before which is that "hate" has an AT modifier that would seem to indicate that even without Taunt in either power or gauntlet form Tanks would still generate the majority of the aggro because of their AT modifier.
If that's true it makes me think that the only reason Taunt was invented was because programming mechanics made it impossible for "hate" to be an AoE?? Anyway, interesting info that I hadn't heard before.
Just adding these for when I sit down to update:
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Epic and Pool powers *do* have Gauntlet, but they are single target only, not AoE like Tanker Secondaries.
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and this...
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AoE powers use Taunt targets that they hit in their Areas.
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Again another addition for me:
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Well, the way I figure it, Magnitude comes into play in one single instance - when there is Taunt Resistance. This fits well with the quote above, in that Magnitude only matters for determining if a Target is Taunted - in other words it likely works like every other mez power in that respect. Because it is really a mez effect.
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Tested : an attack against a Fire Thorn Caster got him to turn around, throw Flares, and stay in the debuff patch.
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Try this: Use Fearsome Stare on some Fire Thorn Casters. Then use Tar Patch.