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If they can't code around the NPC AI, I'd vote that all hostages be changed into pets.
Having to keep them alive while rescuing/kidnapping them would add a layer of difficulty and realism to these missions, as well as toss out the problems with following a stealthed target.
Honestly, when hostage missions where first announced for CoH, I think this is what many people had in mind. For me, at least, it was kind of disappointing to find out I was just walking some immortal NPC to the door.
And they wouldn't all bow when you get there 
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Agree with this. Returninmg hostages to the door is mostly a boring chore tyhat we can do without. Sometiomes, there are not even any attacks.
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Yeah, except that it takes everybody else half as long to do it. Having to clear the path for a hostage with a Stalker is an agony that should be avoided at all costs.
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Sorry, but this is a bit of an exxageration, don't you think? Same goes for the claims of "losing 80% of our effectiveness", earlier in the thread.
The ambush is generally what, one or two instances of a few minions? You head back towards the exit, first wave of ambushers comes, hit hide and proceed as normal. After the fight, unhide and reaccquire the hostage. Repeat if second wave comes. You have lost a grand total of 20 or 30 seconds of time heading out.
Of course, if you didn't clear a path on the way in, then it's different. But if going in you know you have to lead a hostage out, then why wouldn't you clear a path knowing it's easier to do on the way in than on the way out with a hostage in tow? If you can't think that far ahead, then you have no one to blame but yourself for the added inconvenience.
Hardly an "agony" or dramatic reduction in our effeftiveness in my opinion.
I managed to get a non-combat NPCs to follow me in a mission. When I saw the ambush coming down the hallway, I walked backwards and then stealthed. The NPC seemed to be captured by the ambush mobs and the ambush mobs were happy to follow me but not attack me. I walked to the exit safely and then dispached the ambush when I got there. Once I did, the hostage was at the exit and the mission was completed.
I'll have to see if this is repeatable.
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--If you don't like what I have to say, it was probably a typo you are refering to.
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I see absolutely no reason to have this fixed for one set of NPCs and not the other.
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One would assume it's because different code sets control "citizen" NPC AI as opposed to mob NPC AI.
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It actually makes perfect sense to me even without the technical reasons explanation.
1) the ones who are supposed to fight alongside you, you have to be able to fight alongside. You can't fight without Hide as a stalker, and the enemies are balanced assuming you have the assistance, so they had to fix them to see you and help even when you're Hidden. Not to mention the ones who give you stealth themselves with Shadowfall or Steamy Mist.
2) the hostages don't help you and don't need to fight alongside you. You are meant to clear to them and then lead them out. Sure you might get ambushed, but you can hide, kill the ambush, then uncloak and finish leading the hostage out. Much more reasonable.
It does not really make sense that you could keep hold of the hostage during a fight if your fighting style involves striking from shadows anyway. They'd give you away with a muffled warning or something to your enemies. Better to let them go then find them again after you clean up the ambush 
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I like that the hostages can't see you when hidden. I had a mission the other day where I didn't clear the way out, so I would lead the hostage to a safe place, then hide so she wouldn't follow me. I'd then go and clear the enemies out. Then I go back, unhide, and she follows me to the next safe place.
It was very cool. Very real. She cowers in a safe spot while I go and clear out the next set of bad guys, then we move forward.
I like the hostage stuff the way it is.
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That's a mission-specific bug.
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Interesting... I've seen it in other cases, but generally, it seems to
occur most in missions where the NPC doesn't zone out after being led
to the rescue point...
I'll /bug it going forward in missions where I see it, so the specific
missions are identifiable for the Devs... Thanks for the info.
For the record, I have to say this in general regarding the NPC's...
I have ZERO issue with the fact that NPC's *cannot* see me when
hidden. In fact, I consider it a Feature!!! Here's why:
At the risk of this being considered an 'exploit' (I hope it isn't), I can
leave the NPC where I found him, or even lead him somewhere 'safe'
(say a little alcove room in the office complex). This seems sensible to
me in a 'dangerous' situation with a non-combatant.
In general, most of the ambushes are looking for YOU, not the NPC
(there are probably some exceptions). As a Stalker, I DON'T want the
baggage of a non-combatant NPC. I DO want to be able to deal with
the ambushes in my own time, on my own terms, and at a location of my
choosing -- this works quite nicely with the NPC tucked safely away...
Once I've dealt with them, and/or cleared the path to the escort point, I
can unhide, retrieve the NPC, and calmly walk to where we need to go...
Frankly, I *like* that capability... YMMV
Regards,
4
I've been rich, and I've been poor. Rich is definitely better.
Light is faster than sound - that's why some people look smart until they speak.
For every seller who leaves the market dirty stinkin' rich,
there's a buyer who leaves the market dirty stinkin' IOed. - Obitus.
It was incredibly easy in beta for stalkers to farm XP really fast by picking kidnap missions from the newspaper, stealthing through to the back, killing the few guards around the NPC, then stealthing back to the entrance. I doubt you're going to get that exploit back ever.
For the fighting NPCs, this was never a problem, because they're visible for the ambushes to hit, but for kidnappings if the NPC can follow you while stealthed, it becomes a huge XP exploit.
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It was incredibly easy in beta for stalkers to farm XP really fast by picking kidnap missions from the newspaper, stealthing through to the back, killing the few guards around the NPC, then stealthing back to the entrance. I doubt you're going to get that exploit back ever.
For the fighting NPCs, this was never a problem, because they're visible for the ambushes to hit, but for kidnappings if the NPC can follow you while stealthed, it becomes a huge XP exploit.
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How is thios different from steralthing into the final room, killing boss/stealing item, hitting exit? Kidnap missions give no extra xp.
I don't think it is particularly different. Does one exploit existing mean it is ok to add back in another one? I would personally expect the one you bring up to change eventually.
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Well, its true that rescue/hostage missions are tougher for stalkers than any other AT. However, (and I hope this isn't supposed to be kept a secret) in most other types of missions, namely thefts, destroy glowies, etc, stalkers have it easier to an "unfair" amount that makes up for having rescue missions skewed the other way. Walk in, skip mobs, one shot a boss, get glowie, click out.
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Yeah, and that'd be great if there was a reward for completing as many missions as possible, but my goal is more often to get as much XP and infamy as possible, and mission barreling is not it. for Stalkers it is the best option, but when other classes can actually get the XP from killing all the enemies in the mission on top of the modest mission completion bonus, they tend to make more XP per hour (especially since every forth mission is a vault mission, sometimes none of the missions are optimal, sometimes the missions require more killing/searching than one might expect when selecting it, etc.).
Beating 4 missions in an hour, only killing a halfdozen enemies in each, or completing 2.5 missions in an hour, slaughtering everything inside along the way, the latter advances you much better.
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[
Of course, if you didn't clear a path on the way in, then it's different. But if going in you know you have to lead a hostage out, then why wouldn't you clear a path knowing it's easier to do on the way in than on the way out with a hostage in tow? If you can't think that far ahead, then you have no one to blame but yourself for the added inconvenience.
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I'm not saying that you shouldn't, but doing so DOES take a lot more time for a Stalker than for a Brute or Mastermind, and is a lot more annoying.
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It was incredibly easy in beta for stalkers to farm XP really fast by picking kidnap missions from the newspaper, stealthing through to the back, killing the few guards around the NPC, then stealthing back to the entrance. I doubt you're going to get that exploit back ever.
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I agree with Starfox, I don't see the difference between this and being able to sneak in on item or assassination missions. Also, I don't consider any of that to be an "exploit", since we're intended to be thieves and assassins, so prescision jobs SHOULD be our goal, quickly in, quickly out. It's not unfair because in the process we're passing up the majority of the XP for the mission (from killing everything along the way).
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I see absolutely no reason to have this fixed for one set of NPCs and not the other.
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One would assume it's because different code sets control "citizen" NPC AI as opposed to mob NPC AI.
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Bingo. I don't believe that non-combatants will be changed to be able to see through stealth any time soon, if at all.
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I totally agree with hostages not seeing though anything that is as powerful as (or more powerful than) Invisibility. But for hostages to not be able to follow through super speed, and AOE stealth/defense buffs is a bit much. If it doesn't render you completely invisible to unbuffed baddies (ie those without perception bonuses) then it shouldn't render you invisible to the person you're helping out the door. After all, they already know you're there.
Totaly Agree, your supose to clear to them so you can lead them out safely...its one thign to run the gauntlet and risk your own hide, but if theres a hostage *asume you want them to stay alive* you would go a bit more cautiously and make sure they live. But if there use to kicking butt, it would make sense that they can take care of them selfs some what allowing a bit more hastey Exit.
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PCSAR
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The Hostiges / Villains you are supposed to free from captors will actually attack and help when you are still hidden.
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To note: if you leave their auto-follow range, then come back while hidden, they can no longer see you; you have to turn off hide for them to start following you again.
This leads me to think that their AI locks on to you when you are unhidden, killing the mob spawn they are tied to.
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I was in a mission where the AV Baracuda is your ally... she scared me (i was soloing) so i pulled the mobs off her and killed them... then stealthed up to her to learn i couldnt attack... she couldnt see me until i took of hide but then she locked on just fine even after i had rehiden (in that mish she is a helping npc)
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Stalkers already have it way to easy in many missions. They can survive having to clear a path to the door for the kidnap victim like everybody else.
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Yeah, except that it takes everybody else half as long to do it. Having to clear the path for a hostage with a Stalker is an agony that should be avoided at all costs.
Plus, of course, the ambush squads who you can't possibly clear in advance. Most missions I find it makes more sense to just bum-rush through the enemies un-hidden and just hope that the hostage keeps up.
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Well, its true that rescue/hostage missions are tougher for stalkers than any other AT. However, (and I hope this isn't supposed to be kept a secret) in most other types of missions, namely thefts, destroy glowies, etc, stalkers have it easier to an "unfair" amount that makes up for having rescue missions skewed the other way. Walk in, skip mobs, one shot a boss, get glowie, click out.