Nice guide Sword!!
Like the concept guides.
Just to drop in a bit of more info- apprently the Dominators in CoV CAN mez you even when you have Unyeilding on. Yeah, a couple of tankers during the beta event were chain mezzed to their surprise.....then killed. It is one of the Dom's powers......Dominate (of course) I think.
Again great guide!
"I'm not scared of anyone or anything Angie. Isn't that the way life should be?"
Jack Hawksmoor, The Authority.
excellent guide sword!
i have a few minor corrections you might want to slip in if you can still edit:
1. dull pain's HP boost is 40%. might as well include the numbers in there so people can see how massive a heal it is.
2. in your resist elements write-up, you said that it gives more resistance than RPD. it used to be true, but now they all give the same 7.5%.
3. also recently, resist elements now gives resistance to toxic damage.
great work on the guide, it will really help people who are new to invulnerability.
Proud captain of BOSS
The Altruist, Lvl 50 (+3) INVUL/SS Tanker
Omega Centauri, Lvl 50 SS/INVUL Brute
AH, thanks. Hadn't spotted those errors. Hm, will have to edit that in the next draft. Damn this board and its 1 hour edit limit :/
Another note, weave does not stack with most tank defenses.
Defense types stack with themselves. Weave is set to work against melee and rng (no AOE, I think), or positional defense type.
Most tank defenses are attack type, meaning cold, lethal, etc. TH/invince is to all types but psi, so it doesnt stack with weave at all. So, no benefit from weave at all.
also, should mention health, with 3 slots. It really adds to the regen factor, even if you didnt want stamina.
I thought I saw something in the new PDF CoH manual saying that TI was now a click power? True?
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I thought I saw something in the new PDF CoH manual saying that TI was now a click power? True?
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Nope.
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Another note, weave does not stack with most tank defenses.
Defense types stack with themselves. Weave is set to work against melee and rng (no AOE, I think), or positional defense type.
Most tank defenses are attack type, meaning cold, lethal, etc. TH/invince is to all types but psi, so it doesnt stack with weave at all. So, no benefit from weave at all.
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Are you sure Invinc works on damage types? The bonus varies based on range (1.5% vs melee, 0.75% vs ranged), so given this difference in values, it seems likely that Invinc is really melee and ranged defense, with a defense debuff vs. Psi. (I have no evidence to support it since my Invuln really isn't worth playing any more)
And in any case, Statesman has this to say:
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Stealth, Grant Invisibility, Invisibility,Combat Flight, Weave, Maneuvers, Vengeance, and Combat Jumping will grant a Defense bonus to Smashing and Lethal Attacks in addition to Melee and Ranged attacks.
I added the same to Controller/Illusion/Group Invisibility.
The result of this is that ALL defense builds will benefit from Pool powers. Previously, Ice Tankers suffered somewhat because the Pool defenses did not stack with their defense powers. This is now rectified.
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So Weave (according to this) should stack (at least partially) with Invincible, regardless of the bonus type.
Well, for this power to work in coherency with the rest of the set, it has to protect against all damage types except Psi. As far as we know, there is no way to eliminate one Type Defense from a Positional Defense. So, I'd say the chances are pretty good there really isn't a difference in melee and ranged Def. It's just +Def all except Psi. Doesn't matter if it's Melee, Ranged or AoE.
A good guide sword.
I think folks can live without the res elements and res energies and just fit Tough hide in their build. I wouldn't know what to call it but another option for a build.
TI - 3 dam res (+1 to 3 endred late levels)
RPD - 3 dam res
UY - 3 dam res (+ 1 to 3 endred late levels)
invinc 2 def and 2 tohit debuff
tough 3 dam res ((+1 to 3 endred late levels)
tough hide 3 def
I also have the leaping pool for travel so have the bonus of combat jumping to add a slot of def
On my level 36 tanker I have 1 endred on TI, UY, and tough.
I play on invincible teaming alot and he does just fine.
Great guide!
Now, what would you recommend for power pools, besides traveling ones? Do you find any of them are valuable for adding to your defense?
Thanks.
Champions Server:
Brodir, 50 tanker
Outbreak, 50 mastermind
Freedom Server:
Black Griffin, 50 scrapper
One correction:
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The cap for tankers is 90%, the cap for everyone else is 75%
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The Resistance cap for Kheldians is 85%.
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One correction:
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The cap for tankers is 90%, the cap for everyone else is 75%
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The Resistance cap for Kheldians is 85%.
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the cap for brutes is 90%, yes 9-0, same as tankers
AE # 67087: Journey through the Looking Glass - Save the World
LLX VirtueVerse! - Check out my crazy Toons
This is the size of group that we have balanced AVs for, 6.
-Positron 06/07/06 07:27 PM
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Great guide!
Now, what would you recommend for power pools, besides traveling ones? Do you find any of them are valuable for adding to your defense?
Thanks.
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Sword did a good job of laying this out for ya bud:
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The Meatshield build
RPD: 3DamRes
TI: 3DamRes 1EndRed
DP: 3Rech 3Heal
UY: 3DamRes 1EndRed
Res Ene: 3DamRes
Res Ele: 3DamRes
Invince: 3DefBuff (Add TohitBuffs if you feel like it)
Tough Hide: 3DefBuff
Unstoppable: 1-3Rech
Tough: 3DamRes
Weave: 3DefBuff
This build gets you up to about 87% Smashing/Lehtal Resistance. Which is pretty darn close to the 90% cap. Weave also offers an aditional 6.8% Defense. The down side is obviously that you have to use the Fighting Pool to get Tough and Weave. This will however get you pretty close to immortal when fighting smashing/lethal damage.
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Tough and Weave are good options, I have tough on all my tanks except for my stoner where I respec'd out of it and just went granite.
SWORD/Ledgend
Since the folks at plaync/coh refuse to give out specifications to players how have to determined these base rates
Does anyone have the def % for tough? All i can find is the old numbers from i think I5 saying Tough has a base of 20%, anyone have the % for Tough in I6?
Thanks for a good guide - informative and very clearly presented.
> (Special thanks to Alida, BuffyASummers and DarthMord for the numbers taken from this thread: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/show...fpart=1#3870190 )
Alas this link is broken. Can anyone suggest good links for numbers threads?
1% resistance sure doesn't seem like much to get out of a slot for the majority of the resistance powers.
Damn, didn't realize the link was broken. Well, the post by Buffy in this thread http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showf...Number=1295041 should have the numbers.
(Special thanks to Alida, BuffyASummers and DarthMord for the numbers taken from this thread: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/show...fpart=1#3870190 )
Ok, this is my first draft for a I6 guide. Since things are on test, things may change, but I honestly don't expect them to.
Disclaimer: This is not a be-all and end-all guide to the set. This is mroe of a "Invuln for dummies". You start here to get the groundwork to understand the discussions going on on the official forums.
Ok, I'll start with a small definition of the CoH mechanics concerning "damage mitigation". There are two stats that protect you from being killed. These two are not to be mixed up, since they perform very differently.
Resistance : Your Resistance lowers the amount of damage you take. If you have 20% resistance, you take 80% of the damage you should have taken from an attack. Your resistance is split up into different damage forms. These are: Smashing/Lethal, Fire, Ice, Toxic, Energy, Negative Energy and Psionic. You have to have resistance to the damage type you ar being attack with for it to help you. If a guy is pointing a flamethrower at you, haveing 90% Resistance to Smashing/Lethal won't help you one bit.
There is a hard "cap" to the resistance stat. You can not get above this number, no matter how much resistance your powers are supposed to give you. The cap for tankers is 90%, the cap for everyone else is 75%
Defense : Defense is the chance of being hit at all. If you have 20% Defense, it means the guy attacking you have a 20% smaller chance to hit you. If he actually hits you, this power will make no difference.
There is no hard cap to defense, but all enemies ALLWAYS have a 5% chance to hit you, no matter how much defense you have. So even if you are level50 and have 300% defense, a lvl1 Hellion still has a 5% chance to hit you.
Ok, on to the powers:
Notice that no power in the set protects against PSIONIC damage. That includes powers that give Defense. As a Invuln character you are completely vulnerable to this damage type.
Resist Physical Damage : (RPD) This power is one of your three Auto Resistance powers. It is allways on and costs nothing. To make up for this, it's pretty weak. By itself, you won't really see much of a difference in having or not having this power but it can be decent to have when combined with Temporary Invulnerability.
Base Resistance: 7.5%
Slot 1: 1.5%
Slot 2: 1.5%
slot 3: 1.275%
slot 4: 0.225%
slot 5: 0.225%
slot 6: 0.225%
6 slots(with even con SO Damres)= 12.45%
Temporary Invulnerability : (TI) This is a great power for the early game. I advise people to take this as their first power. It costs a bit of endurance to have running, but to make up for that it gives a really high amount of Resist to Smashing/Lethal.
Notice that it's ONLY smashing/lethal though. Running this power while fighting an enemy that uses another form of attack will only cost you endurance without helping you. This power can be run at the same time as the power Unyielding.
Base Resistance: 30%
Slot 1: 6%
slot 2: 6%
slot 3: 5.1%
slot 4: 0.9%
slot 5: 0.9%
slot 6: 0.9%
6 slots(with even con SO DamRes)= 49.8%
Dull Pain : (DP) This can be a very good power to have. This is a click power, which means that when you click it, it does its thing right away and then start recharging. What it does, is two-fold. First, it increases your max HP, so you'll see your greeen HP bar go down first. You're not actually loosing life, it only becomes smaller becuase you make room for more HP. Then it heals you up a nice bit. It's a good "Oh ****!" power to use when you suddenly realize you're taking too much damage.
Resist Elements : (REL) This power is pretty much just like RPD. It's allways on and costs nothing. It gives more resistance then RPD, because Ice and Fire is used less by the enemies than Smashing/Lethal. Good power to have, since it allways protects you, but like the other Auto Res powers it's not crucial to have.
Base Resistance: 7.5%
Slot 1: 1.5%
Slot 2: 1.5%
slot 3: 1.275%
slot 4: 0.225%
slot 5: 0.225%
slot 6: 0.225%
6 slots(with even con SO Damres)= 12.45%
Unyielding : (UY) Take this power. It's basically the cornerstone of the set, sicne the rest of the set can easily be shut off if you do not have this power. The main benfit of this power is to protect against all status effects. I cannot stress enough how extremely important this is to have. If you have no status-protection, you can be destroyed by just about any enemy that uses status-effects.
In addition to this, the power gives some resistance to all damage types (lessto Smashing/Lethal) and a slight debuff to defense. Meaning you'll be able to take a bit more damage, but also will be hit a bit more often when using this power.
Defense Debuff: -5%
Base Resistance (non-Smashing/Lethal): 10%
Slot 1: 2%
Slot 2: 2%
slot 3: 1.7%
slot 4: 0.3%
slot 5: 0.3%
slot 6: 0.3%
Base Resistance (Smashing/Lethal): 5%
Slot 1: 1%
Slot 2: 1%
slot 3: 0.85%
slot 4: 0.15%
slot 5: 0.15%
slot 6: 0.15%
6 slots(with even SO damres)= 16.6% all but S/L/psy, 8.3% S/L only
Resist Energies : (REN) Exacly same as Resist Elements. Allways on, costs nothing. Gives resistance to Energy and Negative Energy damage.
Base Resistance: 7.5%
Slot 1: 1.5%
Slot 2: 1.5%
slot 3: 1.275%
slot 4: 0.225%
slot 5: 0.225%
slot 6: 0.225%
6 slots(with even con SO Damres)= 12.45%
Invincibility : (Invinc) This is the other cornerstone of this powerset. It is a bit complicated to understand, but can give you a huge benefit.
The power has a taunt radius. All enemies in melee range will be aggroed by this power and start attacking you. This is great for keeping enemies concentrated on you and not on your weaker team-members.
It gives you a boost to Defense (note: not Resist). The boost in itself is very small, but it gives an additional boost for each enemy in melee range of you up to a maximum of 14 enemies. So, if you have a lot of guys pounding on you, they have a lot smaller chance of hitting.
It also gives a boost to your accuracy in the same way. So if you have a lot of enemies near you, you will not even need +ACC enhachments in your attack powers.
Notice that since this power gives you Defense instead of Resist, it makes you much more powerfull. The other powers make you hard to hurt. With this power as well, you are also hard to hit.
Numbers on this power are, as allways, hotly debated. I have yet to see any confirmed numbers on this set, but this should be somewhere in the right ballpark:
Base Defense: 1.5% per enemy
Slot 1: 0.3%
Slot 2: 0.3%
slot 3: 0.255%
slot 4: 0.045%
slot 5: 0.045%
slot 6: 0.045%
Total 6 slotted with defense: (no foes in range): 2.49%
Total 6 slotted with defense: (14 foes in range): 15.36%
Tough Hide : (TH) This power is a Defense-version of your auto-resist powers. It gives you a small boost to Defense vs everything except Toxic and Psionic attacks. Might be nice to take to off-set the -5%Def from UY. Same as the other Auto powers it's more of a "stick in where you can" power than anything you worry about getting at a specific level.
Base Defense: 5%
Slot 1: 1%
Slot 2: 1%
slot 3: 0.85%
slot 4: 0.15%
slot 5: 0.15%
slot 6: 0.15%
6 slots(with even con SO DefBuff)= 8.3% defense
Unstoppable : (US) This is your big "OH *****!!" button. When the brown stuff impacts with the swirly thing, this is what you push. It gives you a massive boost to all your resists, except Psionics, for three minutes and gives you higher Endurance recovery. It also gives you extremely high protection against Status Effects. So with this on, you have to be facing something truly terrible to be killed. The downside is, of course, that after the three minutes are up you drop to 10% health and 0 Endurance. Notice that since you drop to 0 End, all your toggles will drop as well. So you'll be completely naked. You use this power to postpone your death by three minutes and see if you can either get lucky or get away.
Base Resistance: 70%
Slot 1: 14%
Slot 2: 14%
slot 3: 11.9%
slot 4: 2.1%
slot 5: 2.1%
slot 6: 2.1%
6 slots(with even con SO damres)= 116.2%
BUILDS
I'm going to outline some different ways to build an Invuln tank and their pros and cons.
The Medium build :
TI: 3DamRes
DP: 3Rech 3Heal
UY: 3DamRes
Res Ene: 3DamRes
Res Ele: 3DamRes
Invince: 3DefBuff (Add TohitBuffs if you feel like it)
Unstoppable: 1-3 Rech
This is a build that will pull you through your average mission and team. It gives ok resist vs most damage types and pretty good Smashing/Lethal resistance. It doesn't try to eke as much survivability as possible out of the set, but it gets the most bang-for-your-buck when it comes to slots and powers.
The Meatshield build
RPD: 3DamRes
TI: 3DamRes 1EndRed
DP: 3Rech 3Heal
UY: 3DamRes 1EndRed
Res Ene: 3DamRes
Res Ele: 3DamRes
Invince: 3DefBuff (Add TohitBuffs if you feel like it)
Tough Hide: 3DefBuff
Unstoppable: 1-3Rech
Tough: 3DamRes
Weave: 3DefBuff
This build gets you up to about 87% Smashing/Lehtal Resistance. Which is pretty darn close to the 90% cap. Weave also offers an aditional 6.8% Defense. The down side is obviously that you have to use the Fighting Pool to get Tough and Weave. This will however get you pretty close to immortal when fighting smashing/lethal damage.
The Scranker build
TI: 3DamRes
DP: 3Rech 3Heal
UY: 3DamRes
Res Ene: 1DamRes
Res Ele: 1DamRes
Invince: 3DefBuff 2-3ToHit
Unstoppable: 1-3 Rech
A step below the medium build in survivability. This build only slots powers that give a very decent return per slot. This leaves you open to spread a LOT of slots into your secondary and pool powers. This build might have some serious problems tanking for a big team when not fighting priamrily smashing/lethal.
Ok, a little bit on playing a tank in a team.
Your main task in a team is to protect your team. If somone dies you should take it personally. The other ATs are known as "squishies" or "pets". Protect your pets
First of all: anyone who claims you should just stand there and be beat on does not know what he's talking about. You are NOT a meatshield, unless that is what you want to be (few do).
Your job in the team is to keep all the enemies concentrated on you. You have a few different tools for this job:
Invinciblity : This power has a taunt aura. It continually pulses taunt at all enemies close to you. It's not very strong, but it's still a big help, since you don't have to actively do anything for this to work its magic.
Taunt : All tanker secondary power sets has this power. It is a ranged AoE auto-hit attack that creates massive aggro in all it hits. This is a great tool for pulling back enemies that are running away from you and towards the squishies. It is allso your earlies aggro-management tool. This is the only power you have at low levels to actually fulfill your role in a team. Notice that Taunt has a max of hitting 5 targets. At higher levels, it's a good tool to use on really dangerous enemies sicne you're guaranteed to hit the one you are targeting.
Gauntlet : All the attack powers in the tanker sets have this effect. What it does is make all the enemies go "Wow! Look what he did to my friend! We have to take him down!" Basically, when you hit a mob, you create a AoE aggro effect. The AoE and the magnitude of the aggro is increased the more damage the attack does. So, by simply beatin stuff up, you are managing aggro. PBAoE attacks ar particularly good for this. Since it hits a LOT of guys and therefor creates a lot of aggro. In most fights, once you have the enemies neatly packed around you, you don't really need anything more than to run Invincibility and keep hitting them.
Provoke : This is a power in the Manipulation Power Pool. It basically works like Taunt. The difference is that it is NOT auto-hit. Meaning that you're not guaranteed to aggro what you use it on. However, it can hit more targets than Taunt. So with 1-2ACC slotted it is actuallt better than Taunt when it comes to grabbing a large group of enemies attention.