Just dropping this in my favorites. Thanks for all your hard work.
Dr. Rob
Figured this was as good a place as any for the Prima guide numbers concerning Dark Armor (this is supposed to be accurate as of Issue #6):
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>DARK ARMOR END ACT RCHG
Dark Embrace 0.104 0.67 4
Death Shroud 1.04 1.17 4
Murky Cloud 0.104 1.17 4
Obsidian Shield 0.104 1.17 4
Dark Regeneration 33.8 1.17 30
Cloak of Darkness 0.13 1.17 20
Cloak of Fear 2.6 1.17 4
Oppressive Gloom 0.156 1.17 8
Soul Transfer 0 1.17 300</pre><hr />
END = Base Endurance Cost
ACT = Activation Time
RCHG = Base Recharge Time
Thanks mate.
Those numbers are interesting. If accurate that is a very big reduction for Dark Regen.
Any indication what the End cost for the toggles is rated in? The offensive toggles seem too big for End per second and the defensive toggles seem too low for End per tick.
End cost for Oppressive Gloom is definitely less than any of the shield toggles, which makes me think that maybe the Offensive toggles are rated at End per Tick and the Defensive ones at End per Second, which is really handy for comparing them.
Regards, Screwloose.
I am not young enough to know everything.
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Cloak of Fear has been nerfed a couple of times. As of I5 it only Cowers Minions, it hits a level+0 mob 50% of the time and the To Hit debuff was reduced (from 25% to 10%). IMHO it is line ball as to whether it is worth the End cost to run and requires 3 Acc and a Fear Enh to give a 90% Cower vs level+1 mobs, leaving you with two slots to Enh the To Hit debuff or cut the sizeable End cost. If you are not prepared to 6 slot it or if you run Oppressive Gloom, which will stun all the Minions anyway, then don't take it.
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Have you tested this recently? I have a Dark/Dark Brute (basically the same with respect to power stats, as far as I can tell), and I have noticed that Lieutenants are *definitely* getting cowered. Just today I cowered a +2 Lt (red); this is without ToF (I don't have it), without Fear duration enhancers (my slotting is 3 endreduce, 1 acc), and as far as I know I don't have any other fear effects).
Did this change in i6, or is the Brute version different? (Or should I be shutting up in Fear that they overlooked passing a nerf along to my character?) As is, I find CoF very useful as damage mitigation, even given that I run it with Death Shroud and therefore do not get its full benefit. Um ... I mean, its a worthless power; hardly worth taking!
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Cloak of Fear has been nerfed a couple of times. As of I5 it only Cowers Minions, it hits a level+0 mob 50% of the time and the To Hit debuff was reduced (from 25% to 10%). IMHO it is line ball as to whether it is worth the End cost to run and requires 3 Acc and a Fear Enh to give a 90% Cower vs level+1 mobs, leaving you with two slots to Enh the To Hit debuff or cut the sizeable End cost. If you are not prepared to 6 slot it or if you run Oppressive Gloom, which will stun all the Minions anyway, then don't take it.
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Have you tested this recently? I have a Dark/Dark Brute (basically the same with respect to power stats, as far as I can tell), and I have noticed that Lieutenants are *definitely* getting cowered. Just today I cowered a +2 Lt (red); this is without ToF (I don't have it), without Fear duration enhancers (my slotting is 3 endreduce, 1 acc), and as far as I know I don't have any other fear effects).
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Interesting. No I haven't had Screwy out recently, been having too much fun in CoV, but I am signed up for some Hero action this evening so I will have a go and see whats what.
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Did this change in i6, or is the Brute version different? (Or should I be shutting up in Fear that they overlooked passing a nerf along to my character?) As is, I find CoF very useful as damage mitigation, even given that I run it with Death Shroud and therefore do not get its full benefit. Um ... I mean, its a worthless power; hardly worth taking!
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Yeah damn worthless, in fact no one should ever play DA, go away, nothing to see here.
I'll let you know what I find out about CoF.
regards, Screwloose.
"I am not young enough to know everything."
How to Look Stuff Up Yourself - It's Fun and Easy
Looking for Powers Numbers try City of Data.
For Fraks sake read the Guides and FAQs
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Cloak of Fear is VERY effective if you slot it 3 Fear, 2 Acc, 1 End.
The Triple fear makes the fear last twice as long, plus I'm pretty sure it stacks. So, in about 10 seconds, every minion in the group is cowering for the rest of the fight, while I fight the LT's and bosses. Thanks to Death Shroud, Dark Regen and Dark Consumption, engaging a mob WITH a boss gives me better odds than fighting a boss alone! Yup. I eat people.
Plus it looks insanely cool to your teammates when you run in to a mob without taking the alpha strike (Cloak of Darkness) and they're all paralyzes with fear, and you solo the whole mob.
You can't spell Slaughter without laughter
All your gonna do is just farm behemoths anyways.
My thoughts on November 30.
Okay did a little testing on the Live server last night.
I have CoF slotted 2 Acc, 1 End, 1 Fear and 2 To Hit Debuff.
First thing I did was track down some spawns of Level 50 and level 49 CoT and Malta in PI. Minions were Cowered, LTs and Bosses werent. Minions would Cower indefinitely if not attacked. Seems the same as when I5 came out.
Then to test whether the Fear effect stacked with itself I went to the Rikti Crash Site and found a spawn of level 45 Crey. Again on first contact Minions were Cowered, LTs and the Boss werent. After giving the LTs and Boss a good long soak of the CoF none of them were ever Cowered. With a Fear Enh and the increased effect from the level difference the duration of the effects should have lasted long enough to stack if it was going to.
The Brute version might be different, but the Scrapper version seems to be the same as it was since I5.
regards, Screwloose.
"I am not young enough to know everything."
How to Look Stuff Up Yourself - It's Fun and Easy
Looking for Powers Numbers try City of Data.
For Fraks sake read the Guides and FAQs
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And this makes COF better than OG in what way, again?
That's right.
No way.
Well, I guess it depends in part on whether you want your "control" power to simply make your victims run around in random directions until they leave the very small radius of the power ... then turn around and shoot you with no penalty. The fact that feared enemies tend to stay still (usually) and get a tohit debuff when they attack is nice.
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And this makes COF better than OG in what way, again?
That's right.
No way.
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If you are using lots of PBAoEs its better than OG since the mob stays in range.
And it stacks nicely with Touch of Fear to fear bosses and LTs....
-UA
They stay in range anyway. The "wander" factor is gross over-emphasized.
Nobody mentioned the "run away" behavior that still exists with CoF on occasion as a side-effect.
If you take /Dark Mastery, Tenebrous Tentacles can provide a valuable immob as well.
You are correct that CoF and ToF do stack, and if you're DM, thats of use. But that's only 1 Primary. OG stack better with Martial Arts, for instance.
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I'm not sure what has afflicted LoreUndone, but if you're reading this thread with the intention of learning about DA in I5, please disregard his ramblings.
DA was "nerfed least" in I5, IMO and as such, is now one of the top scrapper secondaries.
It never was a bad as its reputation anyway, just expensive and a bit harder to use.
While Screwloose isn't the only place to get DA opinions, he's on the money (as usual)
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thanks. I just made a DA/DA today and after reading his comment was seriously debating deleting. I did look at the numbers for dark armor defense and didnt see any reason to be alarmed.
Surely Dark Armor cant be any worse than SR is it...? (I made an SR, got to 25, and deleted.)
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Surely Dark Armor cant be any worse than SR is it...? (I made an SR, got to 25, and deleted.)
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DA isnt any Worse than SR, but overall it probably isnt any Better either.
All Scrapper Secondaries got a nasty haircut in I5 and anyone who remembers what they use to be usually just has a stiff drink and tries to stop remembering.
SR is more random than DA. Any powerset that relies on Def is going to have good days and bad days. Some missions no one will lay a finger on you and the some it will seem like every minion is suddenly Zen Master of Kicking your Butt.
SR requires less brain work than DA. To get the best out of DA you really should be thinking about what toggles to run at what time. When to use Dark Regen. What affect your Status Effect PBAE powers are having on the bad guys. You can just turn everything on and burn a ton of End but at least some of the time some of that End will be wasted. SR you turn the toggles on and it is on. You can do a little toggle tuning with SR, but it isnt anywhere near as necessary.
I chose DA for my first Scrapper because it looked like it had lots of interesting toys to play with and it looked like the Secondary least likely to succeed. It still has lots of interesting toys and is a little better than it was at release (non-stacking shields was the best looking worst working idea I have seen for a long time), but overall probably isnt any better or worse than any other Scrapper Secondary.
Regards, Screwloose.
I am not young enough to know everything.
How to Look Stuff Up Yourself - It's Fun and Easy
Looking for Powers Numbers try City of Data.
For Fraks sake read the Guides and FAQs
Global Chat Channels - Australia
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Surely Dark Armor cant be any worse than SR is it...? (I made an SR, got to 25, and deleted.)
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DA isnt any Worse than SR, but overall it probably isnt any Better either.
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Most powersets hit a low point somewhere in the game. There's always a stretch where the next useful power is a few levels off but the enemies keep hitting you harder with each passing level anyways. For some sets is comes later, for some earlier.
In particular, I think SR's late blooming AOE Def is to blame for a lot of the set's bad rep. With the Passive AOE Def appearing at 28 and the Toggle at 35 while enemies keep using more and more AOEs, the road to 36 (and thereby fully slotted AOE defenses) just seems like a very long stretch. It might be a bit better now with the added situational Res from the Passives, but I very clearly remember an SR Scrapper that just got torn to pieces over and over and over again during a particular Manticore TF. It was a sad, sad sight.
So basically, what I'm trying to say is that SR hits a low point of sorts just around the time when the game starts getting harder on most people.
And for the record, Dark Armour on the other hand hits that low point -IMO- towards the end of the line. You don't really need both of OG and COF on one character, and a Self-Rez is handy but also underwhelming in comparison to the other Scrapper Secondary final tier powers. But by then you at least have all your conventional defenses properly slotted and the learning curve isn't that steep anymore.
"If you're going through hell, keep going."
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
I have a DM/DA Brute that is looking into CoF and I'm trying to confirm the -Acc on it. I don't care about the Fear effect, I care about the Debuff because as a Brute, you want them still attacking: just whiffing.
If it is only 10% Debuff, then the power is useless to me. It would take 2 Accuracies, 2 End Redux and 2 ToHit Debuffs to make it worthwhile and if I'm only getting 16% Debuff out of it, than I'll drop it like a ton of bricks.
I was hoping to use CoF as a Threat Mitigation power in addition to a way to build Fury. This is opposed to OG that is *just* a Threat Mitigation power and keeps the baddies from hitting back.
Now, I have a little experience with OG on my Dark/Dark Defender and I gotta ask: is the range of OG the same (that is, less than 2 feet from you!?) for Scrappers/Brutes? If it was "normal" melee range, I'd take it and love it but if they have to be almost on top of me for the power to hit, it's another power that will get little use.
If I do drop CoF, I'm gonna gain a power and 6 slots from my build, which would be incredibly useful. I was just hoping that the -Acc would be a huge boon to a Brute (especially with the I7 Defense changes coming).
D3 Bible I6/ED
Bots /FF Guide
to-hit debuffs have the side effect of benefitting the whole team you are in. Also the more def you already have the more potent to-hit debuffs are.
With your DM attacks, they give 10% to-hit debuff. That gives a net 26% to-hit debuff when combined with CoF.
For example you already have defence of say 3.9% for combat jump (tripple slotted). The net defence on a minion is 50% x (100-(16+10)) - 3.9% = 33.1% def.
With COF + CJ, A net reduction in dmg potential from a minion is 33% (i.e 1- 33.1/50). With just CJ on, the net potential dmg reduction is 7.8% (1 - 46.1/50). An extra 25% dmg potential reduction.
With teams when you could start getting a further def of 5-15%. Things get rather interesting.
Say your net def is 5%, net dmg reduction becomes 36%, for 10%, it is 46%, for 15% it is 56%.
And things start getting uber once you throw in a dark miasma power set (darkest night etc..)
-- nucleon
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I have a DM/DA Brute that is looking into CoF and I'm trying to confirm the -Acc on it. I don't care about the Fear effect, I care about the Debuff because as a Brute, you want them still attacking: just whiffing.
If it is only 10% Debuff, then the power is useless to me. It would take 2 Accuracies, 2 End Redux and 2 ToHit Debuffs to make it worthwhile and if I'm only getting 16% Debuff out of it, than I'll drop it like a ton of bricks.
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From the info we got from the Devs regarding Scrapper CoF when it got changed through I5 and I6 the To Hit Debuff is 10%.
That might not seem like much, but compare it to other Scrapper or Brute powers. It is approximately equal to a 10% Def or 20% Res, except that Debuffs use Schedule A Enh rather than Schedule B.
CoF does suffer from something that all powers with multiple effect suffer from. None of the effects individually are superkiller, but together they usually give a decent return for investment. If you can actually use all the effects produced.
If you are running OpGloom then you are already Stunning most of the Critters that would be Cowered ny CoF, so that part of CoF becomes a bit redundent and then the To Hit debuff by itself looks a bit anemic.
As N-Oz pointed out the To Hit debuff is a great effect when you are teaming becuase it lowers affected Critters chances to hit anyone in your team, with anything.
For Brutes I don't think that either OpGloom or CoF will markedly cut into your Fury. With OpGloom all the Critters in the Spawn will get their first shot at you before they Stun, which is often your major source of Fury particularly in teams who might well frag half the Critters before they get to swing again. Equally with CoF. The Cower will slow the attacks of affected Critters, but they will still swing at least once, and maybe a second time if they live that long.
There are some reports at the moment that CoF for Brutes is Cowering LTs as well as Minions (which Scrapper CoF doesn't). If it stays that way I think it would make it a superior power to OpGloom. It would still require more investment, but it would give you a better power.
regards, Screwloose.
"I am not young enough to know everything."
How to Look Stuff Up Yourself - It's Fun and Easy
Looking for Powers Numbers try City of Data.
For Fraks sake read the Guides and FAQs
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Honestly I don't think the devs are spending time in the right places......take these good guides, get them published and throw them into a free pamphlet to be given out with the game....update with changes as need be. Its amazing how much better the players are at giving the info its just finding it that can be a pain
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I have a DM/DA Brute that is looking into CoF and I'm trying to confirm the -Acc on it. I don't care about the Fear effect, I care about the Debuff because as a Brute, you want them still attacking: just whiffing.
If it is only 10% Debuff, then the power is useless to me. It would take 2 Accuracies, 2 End Redux and 2 ToHit Debuffs to make it worthwhile and if I'm only getting 16% Debuff out of it, than I'll drop it like a ton of bricks.
I was hoping to use CoF as a Threat Mitigation power in addition to a way to build Fury. This is opposed to OG that is *just* a Threat Mitigation power and keeps the baddies from hitting back.
Now, I have a little experience with OG on my Dark/Dark Defender and I gotta ask: is the range of OG the same (that is, less than 2 feet from you!?) for Scrappers/Brutes? If it was "normal" melee range, I'd take it and love it but if they have to be almost on top of me for the power to hit, it's another power that will get little use.
If I do drop CoF, I'm gonna gain a power and 6 slots from my build, which would be incredibly useful. I was just hoping that the -Acc would be a huge boon to a Brute (especially with the I7 Defense changes coming).
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While i only use DA on Brutes i have some COF EXP and all i can say is nothing to see here move along.
I have developed a Cookout fighting style when i need to gather some aggro. SS/Dark i use Footstomp and Shroud to slowly kill them while they build my fury. Also COF will keep them in the camp fire if needed. I also use COF when i get in dreck over my head and need breathing room.
Pinnacle
Arch light L50 INV/SS
Psiberia L50 Kin/Psi
Screaming Mentallica L50 Sonic/MM
Infinity
Arc Voltinator L50 SS/Elec
Mind Fire Kinesis L50 Fire/Kin
Flaming Screamer L50 Fire/Sonic
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Dark Armor Overview for Issue 5
Dark Armor doesnt have resistance to KnockDown/Back.
The two easiest ways to mitigate KD/B are Acrobatics from the Leaping Pool and Hover from the Fly Pool.
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Well, that answers some questions!!!!
Excellent post SL!!