Being the Brute Squad- a look at Fire/Mace Tankers
By
Acemace,
Posted on: 2005-07-19 17:03 in Player Guides
**Update:
On Test Server Crowd Control, Shatter and anything else described as having knockback DOES still have knockback. However, if you can't use burn so much, it may not matter. My staple attacks are Bash, Pulverize, Jawbreaker and Whirling Mace.
Thanks for this guide - any chance you can update it to I6?
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Thanks for this guide - any chance you can update it to I6?
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Don't put six resistance increases into you defence powers and add the extra slots to your attacks. 
A Endurance Cost Reduction Single Origin Enhancement in each attack makes a HUGE difference in your Endurance needs.
Centinull
Wow, responses! Obviously, this was posted before ED. Centinull is right... you can now actually slot for damage! YAY! I have again respecced since this post and took out hasten, too, since I had such a large attack chain that I didn't need it anymore. Also, I dropped Burn, though I'm not too sure about that decision yet. While it has become increasingly situational, there ARE situations for it.
Concerning Burn, I warned against knockback effects originally... now, it doesn't matter so much. KB can be your friend when the Burn patch isn't your biggest worry. If you DO take Burn, it can be much later in the build.
When I respecced, I found there were so many slots now available that I wasn't sure where to put them all. Just as Centinull suggested, you may want to use those for end reduxes in attacks, since stamina's effectiveness has been reduced.
Good luck and have fun!!
Would you still stand by the power selection after I7? I've always wanted to use a mace tanker, and your guide seems like a pretty good start. Just wondering if there were any mods since all the new updates and bugs and whatnots...
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Would you still stand by the power selection after I7? I've always wanted to use a mace tanker, and your guide seems like a pretty good start. Just wondering if there were any mods since all the new updates and bugs and whatnots...
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I've been playing around with an Ice/Mace Tanker and been having fun with it. Haven't gotten very far yet but Mace seems pretty decent so far. It does really help that they JUST recently swapped the order that you get access to Clobber and Jawbreaker. Gives you 3 solid attacks as early as 4th level.
Did he mention how much that helps? I remember trying to level my ice/mace in I4 and watching all the other tanks treat me like a novelty 
Now I am rolling a fire/mace and plan on mace-punching them in the face!
rolled an ice/max tank the other night up to lvl 8, pretty fun thus far.
Well, I found a use for burn-- status protection, as you well know, I am sure. Especially against immobilizes, such as with the CoT. It's not a huge concern, but just annoying enough that I am seriously considering respeccing back into burn for that reason. Other than that, I haven't noticed much, but I am working on newer characters a lot these days, too.
And it sure would have been nice to have the new order back in my younger days! Enjoy the reshuffle! And definitely, have fun! Glad to see others joining the ranks of the brute squad!
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rolled an ice/max tank the other night up to lvl 8, pretty fun thus far.
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Still enjoying it? I never got far with an ice tank, but I like the look of them.
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one of those rare */mace tanks and to be honest, I have yet to see another
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Raises hand, long live knockback & bucking the fotm :]
-a
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one of those rare */mace tanks and to be honest, I have yet to see another
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Raises hand, long live knockback & bucking the fotm :]
-a
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*LOL* Yay! I actually saw another fire/mace, also lvl 50, a couple days ago. I was so impressed to see one, I chatted with him in tells for a little while. Mace simply is not popular except for character concept reasons I think, probably because it is so lackluster. It /just/ gets the job done, but I had heaps of fun playing her and don't regret the choice, I just wish the set had a little more oomph somewhere.
The higher, the fewer!
Power Curve- lvl 50 Fire/Mace Tanker
First, there are lots of great guides to fire tanks on the Forums. They will all probably provide you with better facts than this guide will, as I am primarily looking at the secondary set, but I'm going to go over my opinions on Fiery Aura anyway.
After many months of hard playing (over 375 hours logged), my baby girl, Power Curve, finally achieved True Hero Status. Twice, in fact, as she also hit 50 on the test server earlier that day. Neat!
Power Curve (or PC) is one of those rare */mace tanks and to be honest, I have yet to see another. No, wait, I think I saw one back when PC was level 12 or something, but I was never able to see any of the moves or animations and never saw a */mace in action. Pinnacle server doesn't seem to spawn many of them.
So after 50 levels, a few respecs and some test server playing, I am ready to present my findings and opinions, all without the benefit of hard numbers. If you REALLY REALLY want the numbers, I can dig them up from other peoples' guides if you ask me real nice, but other than that, I'd rather just play versus crunching numbers.
As a tanker, it is strongly suggested that you build to live. Even level 50 Invuln (pre-Ish 5) get overwhelmed and end up face planting sometimes. The fire tank is the softest (again, pre-ish 5) of the tank sets and should be slotted heavily for defense above and beyond damage dealing. I went through 38 levels with only two attacks from my secondary and did just fine.
So what's so great about the war mace, you might ask? Well, frankly, nothing. It's there, it's servicable, it does the job. It's rare and some people prize that and certainly I've been told by others that they respect I took the mace and not something flashier or more common, but to be honest when I chose my sets I had no idea what I was doing. That I picked a fire tanker was a fortunate happenstance.
The mace has mid-range damage, mid-range mitigation abilities, eats end like cake frosting, the animations tend to be long and there's one flashy attack in the entire set. Why choose it? Heck, why not. It worked for me. Good enough, right?
Let's look at those attacks real quick:
(oh look at this... I have numbers from CoH Planner. Neat)
Bash- lvl 1. Your first attack, you can't get around it. It does moderate damage with a small chance to disorient. Its a fast animation and does half-decent damage. This will be a staple for a long time.
END: 7.5
RCG: 4
RNG: 5
SM DMG: 2.7778
ACT: 1
Pulverize- lvl 2. Your second attack. Also not so bad and deals high smashing damage. This and Bash will be with you a very long time. In fact, they will be ALL you have for a very long time. That's okay, because it's a good, servicable combo. This attack, too, has a small chance of disorienting your opponent, but I've seen Bash do it more often.
END: 12.5
RCG: 8
RNG: 5
SM DMG: 4.5556
ACT: 2
Taunt- lvl 4. Not an attack, per se, but very necessary eventually and actually a lot of fun. This is the last time I dipped into the secondary until level 38. You may want more toys than that, but I strongly encourage you to focus on defense first. Besides which, you chose Fiery Aura, you have other ways to deal damage. (Not to mention getting a LOT of use out of Brawl and Boxing.)
END: 0
RCG: 3
RNG: 7
ACT: 2
Clobber- lvl 10. The Prima Guide will tell you to get this ASAP and use it to mitigate damage. I was not able to get it until about lvl 49 when I had test server respecs to play with. My take on this? Go right past it. Sure, you knock your opponent silly for about 5 seconds total, and for the first second, they even stay still. When you get a false sense of security and turn away to deal with the sober MOBs, this one spins/flies/runs off at an excessive rate of fastness, all the while sporting little cartoon dizzy marks around her head. I spent more time chasing this clobbered MOB than it was worth. Ignore this power completely. It is NOT a ghetto hold, it's just aggravating.
END: 14.5
RCG: 12.0
RNG:
SM DMG: 0.6944
ACT: 2
Build up- lvl 16. You want to concentrate on defense first, right?? Riiiiight. However, this is a good late level thing to take I suppose. Not really my cup of tea for a tanker, though. Does what it's supposed to do- adds extreme damage and some accuracy. I tried this once and respeced out almost immediately. Guess it depends on your vision of your character and her role.
END: 6.0
RCG: 90.0
ACT: 1
DUR: 10
Jawbreaker- lvl 20. Now you're getting some good attacks. However, it's still too early to take this. Not a bad attack, really. Offers high damage and the ACTivation time isn't so bad. Lots of knockup with this one, which is ALWAYS better than knockback, especially for a fire tanker. This deals extreme damage and you'll be very tempted to take it. Not yet, Grasshopper. Patience.
END: 12.5
RCG: 10.0
RNG: 5
SM DMG: 5.4444
ACT: 3
Whirling Mace- lvl 28. My personal favorite, it's a Point Blank Area of Effect attack and the niftiest looking animation you'll have. Your tank jumps up, twirls in the air, striking all foes within melee range and lands on one knee, looking all cool and bad-as. The ONLY drawback I have with this one is you are locked into the animation and it goes off when you tell it to. Being a PBAoE, it needs no target, so you can overshoot your MOB and just twirl in empty air. Still, this is the best multi-baddie attack you have, IMHO. It is the equivalent if a level 32 power I think.
END: 19
RCG: 14
RNG:
SM DMG: 3.1111
ACT: 3
*Shatter- lvl 35. More damage than Jawbreaker, but this one deals knockback. Stay away from knockback if you're a fire tanker, though this may be servicable to other tanker primaries. I believe this one is also slated to have superior damage rather than extreme now. I could be wrong but I think I remember seeing that during training. Also, supposedly this one has the chance of striking so hard that it can travel through several baddies, so a kind of cone affect. I never noticed this happen, though. I prefer Jawbreaker over Shatter.
END: 17
RCG: 12
RNG: 5
SM DMG: 7.4444 (margin for error)
ACT: 3
*Crowd Control- lvl 38. You waited 38 levels for a new power... this one should be /awesome/ right? So you take it... and are less than impressed. Sure, it has its uses, but the knockback goes for days and about every hit too. Having an nrg blaster knock your targets out of your burn patch is bad enough; doing it yourself is downright embarrassing. This one does, though, actually hit other targets in a true cone effect, on occasion, and in a pinch it might be handy to really throw a bad guy away from a squishy. Maybe a talented ice tanker could knock a MOB into an ice patch. Mostly it's a 'get away from me/him/her' power and should be approached as such. Do not use it as a combo with burn. (Pre-ish 5)
END: 17
RCG: 12
RNG:
SM DMG: 4.5556 (margin for error)
ACT: 2
*Pls note, that on test server I noticed these attacks doing only knockdown or knockup and not knockback. I will need to do more testing, but if this is true, then the devs fixed the knockback problem and these could become much better attacks. On test, I prefered Crowd Control over Shatter and Jawbreaker.
So, there's the secondary of mace. It's a little slow, but not THE slowest (isn't that axe? Maybe stone). It doesn't do the best damage (isn't that axe? Maybe stone), but it's not the wussiest, either (isn't that EM? Heh!). It DOES take mucho endurance and even with stamina 6-slotted and consume from the fire primary, I found myself running out of end completely especially in the late game when I had to run 6 toggles easy. I was never able to slot heavily for damage... the most slots I have in my mace attacks is 4. These buggers NEED Accuracy, too, so slot one accuracy, one damage to start. As the game progresses, you may wish to add an end redux to each attack and possibly a recharge redux to your heavier attacks. Bash and Pulverize remain fine at one Acc, one Dam. If you want more damage, play a scrapper! Just kidding, you might want to find room for Build Up in there, then.
When you reach the ability to choose epic pools, picking up conserve energy would be a smart way to go. You can get rid of those end reduxes then and add more damage. By the end, you can have almost every attack in the 2dary set if you really want to. I believe the best way to describe this set is "meh". It does the job and with one attack you look cool doing it, but it's nothing to write home to mom about. Still, I'm glad I took it and stuck with it. An 8 foot flaming amazon with a humungous war mace is pretty spiffy looking.
**So far, from I have seen on test, combat jump, hasten and hover no longer have defensive properties, but combat jump "makes you harder to hit". Burn has a fear factor and unless you have a controller using holds, the MOBs will run away, out of the patch, then turn outside melee range. Not so bad as you might think, but burn has become more of a panic button than anything. I will be trying it on tester with the pyre mastery set, too... char and ring of fire.. for some minor controlling values.
If these changes remain, I see Blazing Aura becoming the defining power of the set and burn an attack that means you play with a lot of trollers.
Here is a sample build, what I ended up with. This is also after respecs, so please keep that in mind. And in a build like this, where you need more slots in powers at the beginning, respeccing is a good way to reallocate those slots to other powers once they are no longer needed. Case in point: After you beef up your secondary, you will find you no longer have a use for brawl or box, and now mine do not even have enhs in them at all and have been removed from my power trays. But up until level 38, they make my attack chain in conjunction with bash and pulverize. Bash and Pulverize, however, never go out of style.
I would also like to point out that I have not played enough with Conserve Power to know if all the end reduxes can be removed from the build. If that is the case, then you can up defense by that much more. This build does assume that Conserve Power covers all the attacks from 2ndary and end reduxes have been removed. CP is not perma, but it's darn close, giving me maybe a 20 second down time. Conserve Power does not protect against sappers as far as I can tell, but I may be wrong. One slot on hurdle and Superjump really are all you need. Swift is chosen and slotted twice for sheer convenience as it takes no end and allows me to remove sprint altogether, another power I would forget was on and it just drained end.
Power Curve: A Level 50 Tanker
Primary Power Set: Fiery Aura
Secondary Power Set: War Mace
Power Pool Set: Leaping
Power Pool Set: Fighting
Power Pool Set: Fitness
Power Pool Set: Speed
Ancillery Pool Set: Energy Mastery
Hero Profile
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Level 1: Blazing Aura Acc(A),Dmg(3),Dmg(5),Dmg(7),Taunt(17),Taunt(29)
Level 1: Bash Acc(A),Dmg(40)
Level 1: Brawl Acc(A)
Level 1: Sprint Run(A)
Level 2: Fire Shield ResDam(A),ResDam(3),ResDam(5),ResDam(7),ResDam(9), EndRdx(15)
Level 2: Rest RechRdx(A)
Level 4: Pulverize Acc(A),Dmg(40),Dmg(48)
Level 6: Combat Jumping DefBuff(A)
Level 8: Healing Flames Heal(A),Heal(9),RechRdx(34),RechRdx(40),RechRdx(45 )
Level 10: Consume Acc(A),RechRdx(11),RechRdx(11),RechRdx(45),RechRdx (46)
Level 12: Plasma Shield ResDam(A),ResDam(13),ResDam(13),ResDam(15),ResDam( 17),EndRdx(21)
Level 14: Super Jump Jump(A)
Level 16: Taunt RechRdx(A),Taunt(43)
Level 18: Hasten RechRdx(A),RechRdx(19),RechRdx(19),RechRdx(21),Rec hRdx(23),RechRdx(23)
Level 20: Swift Run(A),Run(45)
Level 22: Hurdle Jump(A)
Level 24: Stamina RecInc(A),RecInc(25),RecInc(25),RecInc(27),RecInc( 27),RecInc(29)
Level 26: Burn Dmg(A),Dmg(36),Dmg(36),Dmg(36),Dmg(37),RechRdx(37)
Level 28: Boxing Acc(A)
Level 30: Tough ResDam(A),ResDam(31),ResDam(31),ResDam(31),ResDam( 34),EndRdx(37)
Level 32: Weave DefBuff(A),DefBuff(33),DefBuff(33),DefBuff(33),Def Buff(34),EndRdx(39)
Level 35: Acrobatics EndRdx(A)
Level 38: Whirling Mace Acc(A),Dmg(39),Dmg(39),RechRdx(50)
Level 41: Conserve Power RechRdx(A),RechRdx(42),RechRdx(42),RechRdx(42),Rec hRdx(43),RechRdx(43)
Level 44: Crowd Control Acc(A),Dmg(46),Dmg(46)
Level 47: Jawbreaker Acc(A),Dmg(48),Dmg(48)
Level 49: Shatter Acc(A),Dmg(50),Dmg(50)
Rise of the Phoenix as a final power is very poetic and laser beam eyes could be fun (I'll test that). Or, of course, another epic pool altogether.
Acrobatics seems pretty solid out of the box, just needs an end redux. (Issue 5 may see this needing 2 end reduxes, as CJ, hasten, hover and everything else is being projected as to cost more end.)
YES, you need consume, though maybe not so much after Conserve Power. YES, get Healing Flames. YES, six slot stamina, weave, tough (this is matter of opinion now, but sounds like issue 5 will make it mandatory for a decent tank), and YES for pity's sake, get acrobatics! You'll rue not doing so.
Okay! I do believe I have blabbered enough. Go forth, have fun, frolic, speak softly and carry a big mace!