How to make a better RP server, Cryptic/NcSoft
((Alright, lots of stuff here, and personally I don't agree with a good deal of it (no offense meant, just my own opinion). While a lot of this might be what YOU would personally like to see on a Role Playing server, to me this proposed set of rules seems more like precautionary 'anti-power gamer' rules than ones that simply enhance or encourage RP. While it's true that a lot of these rules would keep power gamers away from the RPing server you're suggesting, I think it would ultimately end up doing more harm than good, by scaring away more casual RPers.
Before going on, I'll give a short background so you know where I'm coming from. I've been playing MMOs, and RPing, for about 2 and a half years. Started with Everquest, then moved on to AO, SWG, FFXI, and finally to CoH, which I joined specifically for the Roleplaying opportunities. I've also been to a couple of Roleplaying forums, and have DM'd a few campaigns in D&D. I try to stay in character most of the time, but still enjoy going out and cracking some bad guy skulls every once and a while just for the hell of it. I like roleplaying a great deal, but playing and advancing in the game is also something I enjoy, and I think there are a lot of people playing this game with a similar point of view.
Overall, these rules are more suited to people that don't mind not leveling often, or at all, and are content with hanging around, pretending to be their character at all times. I don't have a problem with that kind of playstyle, but when it's enforced through game mechanics in a system that doesn't really need it, I'd find it tiresome and would probably end up avoiding the server altogether.
To be more specific, I'll go over each of your points with why it wouldn't quite work on an enforced RP server, ESPECIALLY if it's the ONLY Official Roleplaying server.
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When a player click the role-playing server, warn them, that they are getting ready to enter a high-heavy-lessAction-roleplaying server
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I don't think this is the best method, just for starters. A message like that is more of a warning, and is likely to scare more potential RPers away than it is to attract them.
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. Less experience/Influence. People that just want to see the highest level, will than pick one of the servers, where it is more available. And role-player wants time to develop the more artistic skills of their characters.
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Not the right solution, and not necessarily true of all Roleplayers. As much as I like getting into character and talking with the people in my SG, I like to go out, run a few missions, and hopefully level up once in a while. I highly doubt that most Roleplayers go to the official RP server if this was implemented to any extreme amount. Beyond that, there's the matter of Cryptic implementing it. In the end, it's not the roleplayers or power gamers that are the most cost effective, it's the casual gamers. devoting time and resources (regardless of how much) to something like this, especially something that only effects one server, isn't worth the effort.
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3) Fewer mobsters. Aye. You will actually have to look for enemies. Maybe down to 25% of what it is now. I believe that is fitting. But what do I know? And the mission, more dangerous (a way to make people need to join up in groups, and in groups, is where the role playing happens). Not saying role-players don?t like a little bit of action now and than, but I believe many of us, prefer the hunt compared to the kill, because it?s easier to role-play while running the pavement than when swinging a fist.
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I disagree. For the most part, having to spend more time hunting for enemies out doors (which is difficult enough to do and chat with your team mates) would only lead to less RP. As it stands now, the combat system is WAY too fast paced for anything to be done with it to make it more RP friendly (not a problem with that, by the way: I prefer the short fights in this game to wailing on Mist_Wolf1 for ten minutes with no reward :P). In the same way, making missions more difficult will lead to less RP, as players will have to work harder to keep themselves alive, and have less time to chat (not to mention that with less exp/influence players with be doing it for less reward, and will be less able to keep up with enhancements, making combat even MORE difficult). Again, it also runs into the problem of being unrealistic to implement on just one server.
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4) A higher penalty on getting knockout and (something I really would like to see) a chance for a permanent lost of the character (the medics failed, lets see what the coroner can do).
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While it would be nice to see this as an option you can make for your character (not that I'd use it, but it would be nice for others to have it if they wanted to). Combined with the added difficulty to the game, the overall weaker and slower leveling characters, and the chance of having your character deleted over death makes this server most likely infuriated for casual gamers/casual RPers that play there (scaring off both in an MMO, and RP server=bad).
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5) Last but not least?moderators, that have the power to ban the ones, that is not up for anything else, than to tell all of us geek, that we are?hmmm again?geeks
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Don't quite understand this, but I'm assuming you're trying to say to have moderators to ban those who aren't RPing. The problem? Mainly time/resources, but there's also another problem that you don't seem to realize:
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But I?m certain you have a few that know exactly what role-playing are,
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Roleplaying, by its very nature, is subjective. Enforcing what is and isn't RP leads to NOTHING but problems, including several wonderful types of griefing. There are the people who could present a case that someone they personally don't like isn't roleplaying to have their character banned, or people that would grief another player because they have 'an IC grudge'. Beyond that, where does one draw the line? Would ((brb, dinner)) be a bannable offense on this server?
Overall, implementing all of this would just do more harm than good to the Roleplaying community, and doing it on a server with players that are already established in the 30s or 40 with no interest in RP will only lead to outcry on the boards (in case you haven't noticed, there are a LOT of overreactive customers in this game, many of whom would be none too pleased with this change).
Personally, I think the BEST and easiest thing the Devs could do would be to put simply a (Recommended Roleplay) tag at the end of a server in the game's selection screen, and leave it at that (I'd suggest Virtue for this treatment myself). No extra enforced rules, no restrictive additional naming policies, just a tag to let people know the best spot to head for like-minded players.
Ack, sorry for chewing your ear off, kinda got carried away ))
Agreed, Haunt.
Remind me to consider maybe thinking about asking Contact to perhaps give you a raise sometime...
No wait... I bet Eidolon was whispering in your ear the whole time. Maybe we should just give it to "her."
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No wait... I bet Eidolon was whispering in your ear the whole time. Maybe we should just give it to "her."
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She told me so herself. We chat quite often, Haunt. The things she tells me. Whew.
ooc
I believe that Haunt has hit the proverbial nail on the head. Suggestion is better than forcing. I have RP for a number of years and as much as I enjoy the politics and the in character acting, I enjoy the leveling as well. It lead to other areas of exploration that actually increases the RP, because well, the more I see the more creative I get.
ic
Deth Aszicen
DM/DA Scrapper
Death is neither a beginning or an end, it is just annoying... and expensive.
My two bits-
For about the last 6 months, I've played on a pesistant world NWN server (City of Arabel). something like 15 DMs/scripters...anyway, a lot of your points were implimented in the server.
Was the RP amazingly fun? yes.
Did it welcome new/casual RPers? Not very well. Repeatedly, newer players kept mentioning that it all was a bit daunting.
now, granted that the server only ran with 55 people at a time (though it was full almost 24/7)...but increase both the number of total and casual players and you basically have a good model for a MMORPG.
Basically, such rules seem to work well with small groups and not so well with large player-bases (to me at least).
though I do like the idea of tagging Virtue as the "official" RP server.
Alrighty I'm back. Not to defend, but also to tell where I'm from and that it is just not rules graped from the air.
I too have also been very active in Bioware's fantastic and until now best media for roleplayers on the PC Neverwinter Nights. Been DMs on a couple of different servers, and the last one I believe is the one with the highest quality of role play. Right now, for a month again, I started my own work, and have gathered a team of 8 scripters, DMs and builders. Now, I would gladly give out names to the servers, boards etc, but for me to do some commercial for a 3rd party's product, I want to be allowed by the administrators here.
So my abive rules is based on that. On what will attract the highest quality of roleplayers and make certain that the ones that is not that interested in such, won't come near it.
Yes, it don't take a high IQ to see, that what it does it to decrease the power level and advancement. And yes, that seem more to decrease powergamers than attracting roleplayers. But that is what I have experiend is the way to do it.
Roleplayers no.1 rule is to avoid places with to many, if any powergamers.
Now I didn't say that the Virtue should be gone. Is good for players that want both. Now we just need one where it is roleplay 100%.
Now honestly, I know my chances for getting something like that throught on a MMORPG such as this, is close to none. But at least I tried. If it not come through, I can already now, just say, that you are missing a large group of very loyal and people in the 4th decade of their life (based on just the sizes of the communities I have been part in). And as it is now, all CoH do, is to fight with the rest of the MMORPG for the same kind of gamers. Why not go another way around, and attract some others, that haven't found a MMORPG that is close to have the RP in-game. People can only afford a couple of MMORPG monthly payment game (both in time and dollars).
I must honestly say, that I wish to hear a word from some of the developers to hear what the chance is for such, so I either quick can move on or start to announce this world for like-minded people such as me.
Attracting people works better if you use a carrot instead of a stick.
Every rule modification proposed is to "keep out powergamers." Powergamers do not, contrary to popular belief, inherently destroy RP. The Firiona Vie server on EQ has its share of powergamers, and they haven't yet destroyed the RP community there. The "infamous May 8th patch" that lessened many of the anti-powergaming restrictions brought more players in, saved the server, and revitalized the RP community. I should note that many RPers, myself included, refused to play on FV when it first opened because the rules made the game very hard to play. Some of us do like playing the game, you know, in addition to RPing.
What will promote RP is providing rewards for it. When the rewards for RP exceed those for powergaming, powergaming will disappear. The equation is quite simple and has worked on MUSHes throughout the ages; it's also backed by a wealth of behaviorist research. However, coding rewards for RP into the game would very much change its structure and the way it plays, so it'd be unwise for Cryptic to go that route. Making an RP server where you're punished for playing (by, say, sharply curbing your ability to level) isn't going to attract new players -- it's going to drive old ones away.
I agree that the best thing Cryptic can do right now for the RP community is just rename Virtue to Virtue (Roleplay Preferred). That's all they'd need to do to help strengthen the RP community.
I don't want them to change a server (like the Virtue server) in this case. Not at all. It is kinda relaxing. When I have a couple of hours to play, I can go in and find some players to role play with, and if I only have 30 mins, I can go in and reach next level.
But I would like an extra server, and honestly in my small world, I believe a server as I suggested would be a success ( I know the replies to my posts in here say otherwise), maybe not in a huge number of players, but in enjoyable game-hours for the ones that do come in. As I already somehow have said in my above post, I belief (I know ), that by adding an extra server with all those restrictions would add a whole new group of people, that lately (actually since trying Diablo online and EQ (sorry, just had to mention those two, since they are used as cursewords where I am...like you are such a Diablo player)) have avoided all paying MMORPG, because they are not exclusive roleplaying.
I'm not going to say "what would it hurt to try, and see what happend" because I do know that changing a mod to that, plus the addition of another server plus moderator do have a price, but one MMORPG hopefully will take the chance, just for seeing what would happen.
I don't know how many of you know the Neverwinter game that was made and still is breathing with a huge community. But the beauty in that game, is that you can make your own mod and restrict it as soft or hard as you want.
Many players actually prefer the tough server, where you will be look down upon if you don't role play or even get banned. When you die, you have to go back to the drawing board and make a new character, and your advancement is so slow, that if you start to do the calculation for seeing when you will reach the highest level, you soon find out, that it looks almost impossible. But a lot of players is joining. And having the blast of their time. Those are the people you also should try to steal (of course not from the world I'm making :-) ), and at the same time not getting rid of the old playerbase. They would still have their own servers.
I know, I'm just yapping trying to convice each of you, that what I'm saying is the truth of life. And I'm just doing it here, because the world "City of Heroes" is so well made and refreshing, that I hope they will just add the last piece in the puzzle that would do it for me plus attracting all the players I have been having a blast with the last couple of years.
Not trying to step on anyones toes, just want to add an extra color. Is there really no other playes in here that would like to see such a server?
Now to the men with the design glasses on...:-)...do you have an answer I can bring back with me to these players I want to talk into coming over here. You have following options
1) Will never happen
2) Of course Gung-Ho Jane. We will add such a server right away, and send you a big bag of money.
3) Of course. But we will delete this post, so it seem like we got the idea.
4) Hey...we are thinking. That's how we came up with such a great game. Figuring out the cons and pros. So be silent. And we will soon return with an answer (if taking option no. 4, be aware that I will stay here, and when time have gone long enough, make a *bump*)
5) We don't have an answer at all, because what you are saying is ignored, and not very believeable. Now instead of making up a fantasy world here on the board, Jane, log into the game and play. Like....NOW
At least just show me you are reading the post
So how do you exactly start roleplaying?
Hmmm?
Do you randomly go up to some person and splew off some stuff?
Do you talk to yourself in broadcast channel?
Another two bits....
re: Baine-
Basically, think up a personality for your character (easiest way would be to put yourself in your hero's shoes. ie- think of how you would react to a situation, then have your hero react the same way). Then just stick with that personality.
re: GungHo_Jane-
I've no doubt that there would be people willing to play on such a server. However, think about this-
To do all that, Cryptic would need to buy new server hardware, add code to the game for your suggestions, hire mods and designers, and have a separate test server for it.
And while we have no way of knowing how much $$$ that really is, I'd think that its probably more than would be gained from the new people playing on this "heavy RP" server.
Ok, I'm done now. no more bits from me
Could be true. But I'm of another believe (based on being member of so many RP communities that think the same), but it's really not up to me is it ?
Still hope it will happen. If not, I will not despair. Still have the free servers to play on, and my own to DM. Was just trying to show that there is many people out there, that would want that, but hard since those people are not playing these MMORPGs, and therefor don't have a voice inhere (not seeing this). To many payment's MMORPGS (read: all) goes for quantity instead of quality. And the quantity they have to share with the rest (is it at least 25 new mmorpgs that comes out this year?) where the quality for role-playing would be a monopol for the first MMORPG that do that.
Again, I have stated my point. If I had the base resources ($$) and skills to start such I would be more than happy to start that, but I don't.
Now I will return to the shadows, use CoH as a light RP game, at least until my subscribtion runs out, and than keep an eye with what path they will take .
((As someone here has already mentioned, the best way to ensure a RP-heavy server is to provide rewards for RPing. The question becomes how to accomplish this.
Personally, I believe that every MMORPG should have one "dedicated" RP server. On this server the playerbase is rewarded not only with material items/money/perks, but also with something that EVERY player wants: recognition. Recognition could mean many things, including unique clothes, an official spot in the server story arc, fame/infamy points or any other creative outside the box bells and whistles.
To that end, would it really cost a prohibitive amount of money for the dev team to hire a staff of GMs who do nothing else but roam the server in various guises promoting and rewarding RP? I think the costs would be more than offset by the benefits. And if not, as a player I would consider paying a premium subscription rate for it.
Sure, it's pretty work-intensive for the GM team, but imagine the payoff. Every MMORPG wants to create an immersive environment and this would be a clarion call for roleplayers of the game. In addition, it's never been attempted before which would ensure that the game itself got plenty of ink in the industry press.
Pipe dream? Maybe. But I firmly believe that this system or a variation of it is the best way to truly create an alternative world for an online game. Because without immersion and continuity no setting is believable.))
It's the flood of micro-managing ideas presented here that are exactly the reason we don't have a roleplaying server.
In my Open Letter to Statesman thread , I actually address this issue. I personally believe that your ideas about how to manage a roleplaying server are a hindrance to getting one implemented. /ignore and normal petitioning for harrassment are already tools in the game that work perfectly fine. There does not need to be any 'encouragement' to roleplay, nor does their need to be any change in the mechanics of the game, ALL that needs to happen is that we have a Roleplaying designated server that is visible at start-up to the 99% of CoH players who DO NOT read these forums.
2 cents.
((Yes, that worked well in EQ... /sarcasm))
I just want to add again, that it is not ideas just graped out of the blue air. It it from 2 yrs experience being part and helping with playing, evolving, building and DMing different role-playing servers for the Bioware's Neverwinter Night. The servers that have the highest quality of role-players is the one that have the most restrictions actually and attract roleplayers (because it discourage people that can't be that in a persistant way). I was hoping that it could be implemented in at least one server here. But the people have spoken. So I have the choice to accept it or move on to other fields. No griping from me, just trying to make this game closer to what I prefer.
Now
take care, have fun and enjoy.
Hey to all of you. First post, so let me just start with griping or hopefully the more positive of you will see it as suggestions and ideas for the creators of this game.
I have tried a few other MMORPG monthly payment games out there, and honestly never been satisfied. Why? Because Im one of those that like the letters R and P a whole lot, and rarely have that been seen on these. And of course it is like that. People are paying for the game and should choose how to play it but what about us poor souls that have paid for it, just to role-play, without being disturbed by the more action-orientated players.
Now on City of Heroes I entered the Virtue server after a few clicks here on the board, because it seem to be the most role-playing wised server. And I have to say, with my fear for what I would see I was pleasantly surprised. A lot of players, like me, seem to enjoy the art (for those that dont agree, the geekiness) of role-playing.
But still not completely satisfied, since it was still not the main part of the players on the server. My game time, could still be spoil by the suddenly and from no where, lets join and do missions or something like there, where I prefer the more (for some, boring) style of a RP introducing of each other. So here are some ideas for the creators to satisfied players as me (or at least just me, I dont care), and make us stay for a whole longer time, than taken a path to the next new MMORPG in hope of finding what we want.
You have a bunch of servers. Make one just role-playing. That way, people that really dont like RP can stay away and join the other many servers that fit their style more. Oh that is what you have already done with the Virtue server. Hmmmm not agreeing. Can I be allowed to add some suggestions? What do you mean about no? I dont care. I will do it anyway.
1) When a player click the role-playing server, warn them, that they are getting ready to enter a high-heavy-lessAction-roleplaying server. That way they have a chance to find out, before they use time to make a hero, and use some later use-less hours of game play. That should be the first sorting.
2) Second one should be in-game. Less experience/Influence. People that just want to see the highest level, will than pick one of the servers, where it is more available. And role-player wants time to develop the more artistic skills of their characters.
3) Fewer mobsters. Aye. You will actually have to look for enemies. Maybe down to 25% of what it is now. I believe that is fitting. But what do I know? And the mission, more dangerous (a way to make people need to join up in groups, and in groups, is where the role playing happens). Not saying role-players dont like a little bit of action now and than, but I believe many of us, prefer the hunt compared to the kill, because its easier to role-play while running the pavement than when swinging a fist.
4) A higher penalty on getting knockout and (something I really would like to see) a chance for a permanent lost of the character (the medics failed, lets see what the coroner can do). The chance should increase for each time you take a trip to the hospital. Like 10% first time, 20% next time, up to 90% (just numbers. I have no idea what would be reasonable). Edited: Forgot to say why. Even the most experiend role-player, have the chance of forgetting to role-play the trauma of being defeated and/or killed, if they just without any real penalties, can return from the "death". It also add to the role-playing when a companion of war falls to the eternal darkness. The tears and the revenge wanting feeling is just not there, when you know, in a moment, you friend will come walking out the hospital, whistling and with a coke in his hand.
5) Last but not least moderators, that have the power to ban the ones, that is not up for anything else, than to tell all of us geek, that we are hmmm again geeks. Banning from a server is of course dangerous, since you will have to listen to a lot of You cant ban me. I paid for this game *calling the lawyer*. But again, you could add a warning about that, in the sequence I also suggestion when players first log into the server, and honestly, if you get banned, you have, is it 9 other servers to play on, where you cant get banned (or at least, you would have to do something illegal). Moderators cost money, yes I know. But Im certain you have a few that know exactly what role-playing are, and can judge fine. After a few weeks, they also know who of the players, that seem to be excellent examples and mature enough to have powers to moderator and ban (advice) the ones that dont fit on a heavy role-playing server, and than spank them to work for the great fee of 0 $, yen, influence or whatever currency you prefer. The problem can be, that it go to the head to those players with these powers, thats why the skill of being mature have to be high with those.
Just a few suggestions, that I believe can give what many of us role-players have been missing since the phenomena of MMORPG got popular.
So Cryptic/NCSOFT, walk the path before your rival companies, and make certain, that I will stay for a very, very long time (Role-players have a hard time giving up on their characters. You know, we are a little nutty and afraid of real-life).