What would Statesman be?
The Statesman apparently has super strength, can fly and is nigh invulnerable to damage, so I don't think he can be listed as a natural. Personally, I see him more as a Tanker/ Magic (due to his bio saying he received his powers after traveling to the mystical east) with Invulnerability and Super-Strength and the Flight Power Pool
So he flies, is nearly invulnerable, and has super strength, right? So far you could be describing Superman. Superman is an alien, who only receives his powers because he lives under the Earth's Sun... so, Superman is a natural. Now, there was an example of a hero used on this site by the devs that "trained" under mystical monks under the earth. She was labeled a "natural" since she didn't gain her powers from a science accident, magical artifact, gadget, or was born with a mutation. Therefore, because the Statesman "trained" in the East and unleashed his "Inner Will," I believe he is definitely a Natural Tanker with:
Super Strength
Invulnerability
Flight PP
and let us not forget, Leadership PP
Hmm, not sure I'd completely agree with the web-sites labeling of that "example hero" being a natural though. How would you describe Dr. Strange then? He was a normal man who was injured in a car accident, went to the Himalayas to seek a cure, and was subsequently trained by monks in the mystical arts. Yes, he has uses artifacts occasionally, but mostly he's just a plain ol' magic user in the D&D tradition.
Magic user, Magic Origin....fairly simple classification I'd think.
Statesman uses no technology, no spells or artifacts, is not a mutant, and had no scientific experiment or accident. All you have left is Natural. The entire "Inner Will" bit reinforces the Natural designation.
If Dr. Strange is a magic origin type, then that backs up my assertions. Dr. Strange uses no artifacts, wasn't given his magical powers by anyone - instead he had to learn them as a student of anything has to learn their craft.
That sounds like the Statesman to me. He traveled east, studied with some mystical monk types and, voila!, learned how to harness his "inner will" and become a flying, super strong, invulnerable person.
I'd also classify Superman as a science origin (if only because the game doesn't have Alien as an origin). Why? Because he gains his powers via a reaction of some sort (scientific, most likely) that his physiology has to the earth's sun.
In my opinion, the natural origin describes characters like the Punisher, Batman and Robin, Hawkeye, etc. Characters who have trained their bodies to the peak of normal human capabilities (Olympic levels, for instance) and no farther.
So the Statesman being able to fly, shrugging off bullets and throwing Rikti spacecraft around like they were footballs definitely doesn't qualify as natural in my book.
No matter what the developers say (if they've even voiced an opinion on this)
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The magical hero receives his powers from a magical source. These abilities might stem from a mystical artifact that the hero has gained over the years - or perhaps the hero has mastered numerous spells that provide him with superhuman gifts.
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The red part covers Dr. Strange. In the case of Statesman (and Superman for that matter), there are no spells involved, merely innate abilities. Wheras magic involves the manipulation of external forces to achieve a goal, the Natural hero relies entirely on internal capabilities. It comes down to splitting hairs eventually if you debate it hard enough.
The concept of Olypian levels as the limit of a Natural hero's capabilities is not necessarily accurate since the upper limit of human capability is hard to fix in a universe with things like psychic powers and "superhuman" martial arts forms.
It could very well be that he is a Mutant. His powers could all be psionic in nature (i.e. TK for flight, strength and a TK shield for invulnerabitliy). His "Inner Will" could be nothing more than a euphimism for unleashing his innate powers which he was born with, thus, a Mutant (go back and reread the Mutant origin as the game defines it)
and btw, I agree that the Natural origin seems to fit those heros with no powers other than above average human abilities, e.g. Batman, Nightwing, Punisher, etc.
Superman would be a Science origin, as an alien. He was NOT born with those powers, but gained them through a scientific reaction he underwent throughout his childhood, due to exposure to a foreign (our) sun. In his NATURAL habitat, he would have had no powers, and would have been a normal creature like you or I.
His powers are from exposure to an energy source which was Alien to him, even though he was living on this planet from an early age.
Well, I think statesman could be natural... I mean, there are tons of stories of people going beyond the normal capabilities of human... (kind of like in animatrix, the man who could run amazingly fast, he eventually ran right out of the matrix)... it just depends on how you argue the fact...
Wel...I still personally think that he is a natural. Because, it says so in the natural description: A natural hero isn't "super" at all; his amazing talents are derived from intense training and innate abilities. He may have been guided since birth to become the physical specimen that he is, or perhaps some tragedy has driven him to seek perfection."
the point is he wasnt born with these powers, and he certainly dosnt use any maical artifacts or gadgets. All he says is that he unlocked the power of his "Inner Will", which if I understand it right, is in ALL OF US. So therefore he is not a mutant (mutant being something different from everyone). So therefore he is natural IMHO.
All good points... I have a question, though... would Batman also be able to be known as a technology hero? He uses all those gadgets, after all... and without them, he's not the hero we all know and love. If he JUST had the suit he would be a fighter, sure, but I think the gadgets that he possesses label him a technology...
Just goes to show you how difficult the devs must have found it to CREATE these origins based on comics from the past and present...
And with Superman, I deabted this over and over, because yes the "radiation" of the Earth's son does affect him... but the Science Definition states:
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The Science hero received his powers either through purposeful scientific inquiry or through some accident gone awry.
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So I have to conclued that because it wasn't any accident or anything he searched to uncover, and because ANY Kryptonian who traveled to earth would "unleash" their dormant powers, he still has to be natural...
Hmm..good point about batman. I guess he too would be a tech umm.... prolly scrapper (I say this because he cant shoot anything (i>E. gun) s not a blaster, he's not a controller cause he dosnt have psi powers, hes not a tanker cause he cant really absorb a lot of damage, hes not a defender, cause, well...hes not really a healer. So that kinda leaves only scrapper.
But for archeotype I agree with ya. Would prolly be tech, since he uses a LOT of gadgets.
States is almost certainly a Natural. Though Jack is very cryptic (ooh, a pun) in all of his statements, he did provide several strong hints that Statesman the hero is a natural. For instance, when Herald the example Natural heroine on the site was put up, part of the Natural description was that "she derives her powers from inner will", and Jack specifically mentioned, "Hey, where have we heard that before?", or words to that effect.
Actually, since his main "make the bad guys fall down" ability is his martial arts, Batman would still qualify as Natural I'd think. His gadgets are really useful, but none (except maybe all his kick-*** vehicles) really reach the kind of hyper-advanced superhuman type level that I'd envision for a Technology hero. If anything, I'd say Batman is a Natural hero with a load of Gadget Enhancements
k, on the Batman/Superman notes:
Superman: " . . . through Specific Scientific Inquiry" Well, we do know from the most Up-to-Date Continuity that Jor-El did research the effects of Earth's Solar Radiation on Kryptonians. His research was one of the main reasons he sent Kal-El to earth, because he knew what effect the Radiation would have on his son. In a sense then, he was exposing his sun purposefully to a scientific process in order to give him powers, much like the Hulk origin shown in the most recent Hulk movie, save that Jor-El's reasons were much more benign.
Still going Science on this one.
Batman: I would say his Origin has changed numerous times over his career. For example, in the years following the campy TV show, and somewhat in the more recent movies, he does use ALOT of gadgets, suggesting a Tech origin. On the other hand, read him as written by Chuck Dixon or some of the others. In that mode as detective/martial artist, he's a Natural. Different writers takes on the same character suggest different origins. Marvel's Falcon is another example. He seemed to be a Tech hero for years, until Professor Xavier revealed that he was at least a low-level Mutant (his ability to communicate with his bird, and eventually some writers took that to mean all birds)
Is it possible to get Statesman to chime in here and settle this arguement? Seems silly to talk about him as if he were not a real SuperHero.
Hmmn.. I am going with the Natural Tanker: Invuln/SS w/ Flight and Leadership, too.
He trained in his skills, whether his flight is just a "suspension of disbelief" because he's the prodigal Hero in City of Heroes or whether it's an ability he picked up along the way, the only thing I could be talked into is a latent Mutant, since, well, I mean look at the timeline, the man's clearly over 100 years old and doesn't look a day over 30!
The problem with comic book heroes like Batman and Superman is that they are a little too generic.
Batman, I would think, would be a Martial Artist Scrapper, but with devices as a secondary.
Superman, however, would still be a Natural, though, as it is ANY Yellow sun that gives him (and anyone ELSE from Krypton, for that matter) their super powers.
It's almost kind of sad, too, that Superman gets angst when he sees a red sun and loses his powers. I mean, Hello?, isn't that just a sentimental value? You didn't hear any other kryptonians complaining about the red sun when they were living on Krypton, huh?
But I digress...
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If Dr. Strange is a magic origin type, then that backs up my assertions. Dr. Strange uses no artifacts, wasn't given his magical powers by anyone - instead he had to learn them as a student of anything has to learn their craft.
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Actually, Dr. Strange DOES use artifacts, both his Cloak of Levitation and the Eye of (what is that word? Amogato?) are mystic artifacts.
I'd like to repeat, though, that Origin is a CHOICE that you make as to where your powers come from. Just because you use a relic or a gadget, that doesn't mean you're a Magic or Technology origin. Dr. Strange trained with the Ancient One to become a spellcaster, but that only means it's POSSIBLE that he has Natural origin. If you want to decide what a character's Origin is supposed to be, you have to look at the WHOLE character, and not just a few minor details.
In the case of Statesman, I think that between his assertion that he unlocked his "Inner Will" -- something that he insists anyone can do, by the way -- and the mysterious, often secretive nature of his origin, I think we can call him Natural. My own Natural characters, Blood Wolf and Joe Everyman are somewhat of a mystery, their origins are unknown (although they're known to me) and the exact nature of their powers, if any, are in some question.
I would call Dr. Strange Magic because he does NOT draw any power from technology or gadgets, but his origin does fit one for a Natural hero. In fact, if a player wanted to create a character like Dr. Strange, but made him Magic, I wouldn't think twice. Again, it's a choice, not something you're FORCED into.
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Actually, since his main "make the bad guys fall down" ability is his martial arts, Batman would still qualify as Natural I'd think. His gadgets are really useful, but none (except maybe all his kick-*** vehicles) really reach the kind of hyper-advanced superhuman type level that I'd envision for a Technology hero. If anything, I'd say Batman is a Natural hero with a load of Gadget Enhancements
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Agreed.
And as I said, again, it's a choice. Batman could be EITHER Natural or Technology. He leans towards Natural (in my opinion) because he draws MAINLY on his training as a martial artist and detective. But it's not the GADGETS that make him Tech or Natural, or whether they are "advanced technology" or not, but his REASON for becoming a superhero, and the STRATEGY he puts behind him.
A Technology hero finds his gadgets or invents them and then sets out to fight crime. The Technology comes first. The Natural hero SETS OUT to become a superhero, and invents gadgets that give him the ability to stop villains. But he's driven (as it says in the description) by some event in the past that drove him to better himself.
Likewise, Dr. Strange set out to cure his injured hands, but found himself thrust into the role of Sorcerer Supreme. Or the Magic hero might be born of a demon or angel, or might have stumbled across some artifact in an Egyptian pyramid. But Statesman SET OUT to unlock his Inner Will, he became remorseful over the villainous life that he led in his youth, and set out to make the world a better place. Starting by making HIMSELF a better person. That's unmistakably Natural.
Of course, Dr. Strange might be said to have chosen his fate, instead of having it thrust on him. But as I said, he's sort of on the line.
Im outting it here since..well...it seem like a good place for it. Naywaqy, as the title implies, Im wondering what Statesman is (u know, origin, archeotype). Personally I think that he's a Natural either Scrapper or tanker, cause, he dosnt use any umm relics, gadgets, and what not, and even in his bio it says that he brought out the power of his "Inner Will". well...im just wondering what everyone else thinks he is.