rian_frostdrake

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However, our highest priority is to ensure that the quality of all new content being brought to the game meets and exceeds your expectations.

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Was just there for filler then

I think you're just going to have to wait and see before you doomy doomy doom. Or we can just presume the devs are lazy

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That's my point though... It sets off a red flag or two when they talk about it being their first Priority but give no details on how they'll actually do it or what they will do differently to ensure we don't have 4 more years of the same old failures.

What we got instead was barely even a Blurb.
I've seen more detailed and "Articulate" press releases from SnakeOil Salesmen.

[/ QUOTE ]just so we know who we are dealing with, are you counting last year's releases as failures? given that they were hugely popular with the community and rolled out without major bugs, due to the closed beta testing, im just seeing what your definition of failures is, and wether there really is any rational space to debate the point in.

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NC Soft is a business, they have shareholders and they're under constant pressure to deliver profits.

If they can throw together a couple of costumes and a few emotes and make a profit, yes we'll see more of this kind of thing.

And as this chunk of paid content is a step down from the last one (GvE, with two costumes, a jump pack and the Pocket D teleporter), why is it unreasonable to suggest they'll test the limits of what the playerbase will cough up ten bucks for?

Yeah it's possible to take this to a paranoid extreme, but pay for extras cat is out of the bag and only a sucker thinks they won't be testing the limits of this technique.

I'm not against it- if I think it's worth ten bucks I'll but it, if I don't I won't.

But we're going to see more of these things.
If they make a good chunk on this pack, with substantially less content than the last one, who's to say the next offering won't be even more piebald.

[/ QUOTE ]less content, really? right now there are about 8 costume sets in it, and 4 emotes. comparatively the last gve set was 2 costume sets, i temp power and access to an area that people basicly use as a thru way. now for a dedicated costume ho like myself, there is a good bit more content here than the last one, though the jump pack was pretty damn spiffy.

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<QR>

To play devil's advocate here: Real Numbers are meh. It'll help settle some arguments that are based around assuming certain values, as well as start new ones when people are able to compare exact values, but it is really only going to be the min/maxers or number freaks who care. I also hope the devs are ready for an onslaught of posts about how power X is so much better than power Y because the Real Numbers say so (and by devs, I mean Castle). Two weeks after Real Numbers come out and all the FOTM builds have been min/maxed to within an inch of their lives, no-one will care apart from numeriphiliacs.


[/ QUOTE ]agreed for me, but thats the thing, its like weapon customization and time travel for issue 11. neither of those really affected me much, because i prefer to play my legacy guys and they are badged out and dont use weapons, but its the developers taking the time to incorperate things that members of the community want, and it ssomething that really does seem to seperate them from a lot of the mmo dev pack. numbers for me willo be promptly ignored, basicly if a power takes a big chunk of life, good, if not, lts see the secondary effects. but a lot of long time users kept on about the numbers, and retaining them is important, so i see it as a cool for some, and not actively bad for the rest of us change, but more importnatly its developers doing what our devs seem to do pretty well, listening and implementing. The only thing thats bad about it is that i think that soem of the more radical types will use this as more justification for their vitriol on states, that the timing "proves" that it was him that held these back, and i think he gets enough unfair criticism as it is.

largely useless to me, but really cements nc2's commitment to the fans, the numbers and exp thing have been debated to death, and while i think some of it is impatience, it will help a lot of people. why cant bethesda be this accomidating?
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Oh ... my ... *happy*

P.S., could I get a couple more character slots on Liberty? I like my collection of 50s there, and I really don't want to start over on another of those scary alien servers.

[/ QUOTE ]stay with us, the other servers smell like sauerkraut...except maybe protector

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There are two Garriots.

One is Lord British, he who pwnz noobz in Tabula Rasa.

The other is the NCSoft bossman.

The More You Know

[/ QUOTE ]actually general british is a ingame avatar of richard garriot, as was lord british for the ultima series. all one man, none of which being kaiser soze

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Robert and Richard Gariott are brothers.

Robert is CEO of NCSOFT North America

Richard Gariot is Lord/General British is the Ultima and Tabula Rasa guy.

Two different people. According to NCSoft's website, the brothers collectively own 4.2% of NCSoft stock.

[/ QUOTE ]err. well, i never said richard was the bossman, just that he was general and lord british...yeah thats the ticket...and furthermore i blame zek for confusing me..yeah thats it, its her fault /runs away

im thinking captain british, for the setting. he keeps getting dragged into ill concieved fights by captain america.

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There are two Garriots.

One is Lord British, he who pwnz noobz in Tabula Rasa.

The other is the NCSoft bossman.

The More You Know

[/ QUOTE ]actually general british is a ingame avatar of richard garriot, as was lord british for the ultima series. all one man, none of which being kaiser soze

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I for one am excited by the idea that this merger of sorts will open several doors for the Co* franchise! The bonuses being given to current players is also a major plus and I thank you!

One question Ex...

How long should we expect to wait for some of the "sekrit" plans that are going to come from this purchase to get announced?

I know you said that we would start seeing big effects in around 6 months, but as far as announcing what NCSofts plans are, how long are we going to be waiting to hear any further details?

Thanks

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We had one sekrit plan we wanted to announce today, but it wasn't ready...

Ex

[/ QUOTE ]coh is going to be showing reruns of heroes and lost?

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Can we get a Dev list of who's around and who stayed with Cryptic?

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Jack Emmert remains in his position as Creative Director of Cryptic Studios, that he has been doing back since he transitioned off the day-to day CoH team and Positron took over as the Lead Designer.

As was mentioned by Brian Clayton in his Dev Corner, the previous Cryptic Team Leads all join us, consisting of:

Matt “Positron” Miller (lead designer)
Aaron Brady (lead engineer)
Ken Morse (lead artist)

With one exception, everyone who was presented with an offer to stay on the City of Heroes team under the NCsoft banner has accepted and is looking forward to working hard on the future of the franchise! While this includes a good number of people, it also includes many of the familiar “red names” from the forums, such as: Melissa “War Witch” Bianco, Floyd “_Castle_” Grubb, Back Alley Brawler, Ghost Widow and “Sexy” Jay Doherty.

[/ QUOTE ]ok, having read that im a bit more mollified. im still not sure honestly if this is good news or not, but we kept all the devs but a few, so i cant whine. ill miss states though, everyone is entitled to their opinion of the guy, and im not here to try to win converts for his buddy list. But honestly he struck me as a nerd(and i mean that in a good way) who loved gaming in general and this game in particular and really wanted this game to do well, and i respect him for it.


oh and proc. i think he was referring to the states strike force and lord rec strike force.

woo, happy birthday, well, 2 years to a hero 50, and looks like vio will have taken the same, love plant doms, much fun.

no, really i could not care less really, id like to get ina closed beta myself, but i also realize that thus far the tack they have used has produced good results, so i cant argue with it on any rational level. I do, however, trust cryptic to be smart enough to datamine the feedback and know that some of the testers are really good at finding bugs, and should be invited back each and every time. Its not a flimsy assumption, its the only evidence we have to go on, If this is the same criteria they have used before(keep in mind that before the devs were adamant about not telling us the criteria..wonder why?), then it has resulted in 3 good launches, thats not a flimsy assumption, its an irrefutable fact, what is conjuncture is how many of the repeat beta testers are killer bug coders, and how many are nice fluff, thats a question neither you or I know the answer to, we are both speculating.

my speculation, however is based on easily observable things, and yours thus far has been mostly based on appeals to ideas of "chosen ones" and, recently, a group of guffawing old beta testers talking about beta and making unchosen ones feel left out. I mean really man, your stuff gets more outlandish with each accusation. next you will be claiming that the beta testers lounge about on golden sofas eating grapes peeled by buxom developers (i understand posi is pretty darn buxom) and mocking the poor unwashed masses while they play a fully bug tested issue 12 on a special server that runs extra fast by leeching fps from grandville, reality check yourself ,man.

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History indicates otherwise. Since they've begun using a closed re-beta, the test time for each issue has been MUCH shorter, and the issues have had FAR fewer bugs remaining once they do actually go live.

Be glad I'm not the one callig the shots: you'd be seeing your name pinned to the bottom of the list, for putting "the players and the community" above "the product being tested".

Then again, I'm just a to-the-point [censored] like that, I guess.



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Why do keep on insisting on this?

You have no concrete evidence that it is the testers themselves, rather than the process that is resulting in the smoother releases.

One thing does not prove the other.

[/ QUOTE ]you have no concrete evidence it dosent, and he does have inductive evidence that the 3 issues that have been bug tested with closed beta have come off test faster and with fewer bugs than the issues prior. that is not absolute proof, we cant have any proof withought access to the datamining tools the devs have, but from all appearences, issues with closed betas have come out faster and with less bugs. its reasonable to infer from that that closed betas are having a positive effect, and that at least some of the repeat beta testers are finding those show stopping bugs that popped up at, say the launch of issue 7 when we were randomly dropped every time we exited any doors. we work witht he best evidence we have, please post your evidence that the closed beta testers are not doing their job.

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I think quite a few probably. I have a friend who got into closed beta because she and other PvPers do their thing in test quite a bit.

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Exactly, just because they are on the Test Server doesnt mean they are actually 'testing' anything.

[/ QUOTE ]odd to say that, given the number crunching nature of pvp, i would say that pvpers can be some of the most intense play testers(not always are, but can be). pve is relatively forgiving, high end pvpers are generally so closely matched that they have to eek out a few points of damage and mitigation to get over people of the same skill level. you had best beleive that theya re right now crunching the hell out of each debuff/buff set right now ,if any have dropped, beause they need to see how to spec out countermeasures. i know we have this view that all pvp'ers are rude evil 14 year olds who cant spell, but you might be surprised how smart one has to be to look that stupid.

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Dark One, it doesnt matter. Not to these people.

[/ QUOTE ] woo, im a "these people" nothing like reducing people who disagree with you to a nameless collective to try and cast doubt on someone, classy. [ QUOTE ]
They dont care that the same people get in time and time again.

[/ QUOTE ] nonsense, i care very much, we have had 3 good issue roll outs, i care that people who are competent keep testing.[ QUOTE ]
or that you cant get the Bug Hunter badge.

[/ QUOTE ]he still can. its harder, but to say he cant is a flat out lie. if he diligently searches for bugs, he still has the option, and he has a chance of being in the next closed beta, dont overdramatize the situation with blatent falsehoods. [ QUOTE ]

All they care about is calling people like you and me who express our opinion about the testing selection whiners.

[/ QUOTE ] not everyone, notice how often i use the word whiners.i dont, because i dont think they are whiners, at elast not initially, i think many people want in to see the new stuff, so do i, but im not, and i can handle it as an adult, but to make histrionic posts about some kind of tacit favoritism, outside of the natural favoritism of picking people who actally know what the hell they are doing and have proven so, is paranoia, and ill damn well call it as such. disagree, refute it if you can or ignore list me if you cant, but dont you dare pretend that i or most of the people posting here are just calling you whiners without regard to your arguments. they just arent convincing, thats all it boils down to.

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1. plenty of bugs still are around for you to get the badge with,


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More people, less showstopping possibilities, code is nearing finalized state.

Given that the metrics for this badge is pretty much dev whim, the chances of getting it in Open Beta are extremely small comparatively.


[/ QUOTE ]while i sympathise with the people who care so much about a single badge, but you did notice that the people who get on are from those who are on test a lot, what stops you from being on test and looking for bugs there, getting your reputation up, and getting in closed beta after that, nothing.

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2. there are those so paranoid that there will always be a shadow cabal out to get them, they are unstable, and they wont be missed.


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Another ad hominem attack.

If you can't see that the same people getting in time and again gives the appearance of preferential treatment, especially when the requirements for getting in are 'secret', then well, I hope that sand your head is in is comfy.


[/ QUOTE ]ah the beauty of a set trap properly sprung. notice that i never indicated that you were one of those people, would'nt be as discorteous as to use direct insults, I see from your head in the sand comment you lack that courtesy. There are those who will always complain and see secret factions against them, regardless of contrary evidence, remember the forum cartel? same thing. you can see phantoms all you want, but prove it with evidence or expect not to be taken seriously.
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3. we will most likely have a significant open bata portion to give people an idea what items are needed for the sets, plus, as pax said earlier, there is no guarentee that the recipies will stay the same from test to live.


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And there is no guarantee that they will change. The closed testers can find out the info first and beat the rest to the punch. Not to mention, for those who play natively on Test, but aren't in the beta, it is an unfair advantage.


[/ QUOTE ]sigh, remember how much boresights cost in beta, remember how much they didnt cost live? the market on test is very different than the one on live.
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4. again, that smacks of paranoia, the people chosen are chosen in part because they really are better testers, their input really is more valuable, i know its difficult for some to conceptualize, but some people are better at things than other people, and as such on a purely technical level, their input really is more important.


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Another ad hominem attack.

There is no proof that they are 'better testers'. Especially when what constitutes a 'better tester', i.e. the requirements to get in, remains 'secret'.

If these people are so important, technically savvy, and required for the beta, then Cryptic should hire them.


[/ QUOTE ]oh please, grow some thicker skin, everyone that disagrees with you is all of a sudden making a personal attack on you, its about as genuine as the umbrige we see politicians claim every time they dont have a legitimate refutation of a claim against them. we have no proof that they arent good testers either, only the hurt feelings of those who, like myself, didnt make the cut. prove that there are primarily bad testers in the mix and we can talk, otherwise, we have had 3 good solid issues rolled out after several that came out with major crashes, and bugs, barring some internal metrics from cryptic which neither you nor i have access to, we are guessing, but on my evidence we have had 3 good issue launches, your counter example?
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guys, try to remember that there will be an open beta too, its not as though only the closed beta testers are going to be testing this, you will get your shot. people make the mistake of thinking that this is soemhow a division of the time we used to have to beta test a issue, its not, if they were doing it the old way, the full beta test would not be happening now, the closed beta is a small and directed group of players who are doing work that would normally have been done by a smaller inhouse team of testers. the beta is still a beta, it just starts out less buggy than before, and goes live sooner because they have gotten useful feedback sooner


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And comparatively, all Open Beta is good for is Stress Testing, i.e. something in the code didn't break the underlying server structure that can't be seen with a small group of people. As once it gets to that stage, the chances of seeing fundamental changes to systems is slim to nil.

Constructive criticism offered once it goes Open, tends to get lost in the noise of everyone and their dog trying it out and complaining about X item.

[/ QUOTE ]yep, i agree, once beta is opened we get a lot of non-constructive posters making noise, good thing they do closed betas with proven testers, isn't it?

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Waaaaaah! I hope the people whinng in this thread are 14 or younger, because if they are adults it is sad indeed.

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Wow, another ad hominem attack.

Guess you beta testers sure earned your spots huh?

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I'm not a beta test but does it really matter who is on the closed beta testing as long as it works and we get to play with it a little on the test server before it goes to the live server?

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It does matter for a few reasons:

1) Closed door testers have a much much bigger chance of being awarded Bug Hunter. A good portion of the total numbers of this badge being handed out have come from the closed tests. Why? Because they get to see the gameplay in unpolished-ness, which is more likely to have major bugs.

2) Gives the appearance of preferential treatment if the same people keep getting in.

3) Closed testers get a leg-up on market/economy potentialities, giving them an unfair advantage when the Issue goes Live.

4) Same group of closed testers time after time get a much larger chance of affecting the game as a whole than the rest of players, whose opinions are just as valid as the "Chosen Ones".

[/ QUOTE ]1. plenty of bugs still are around for you to get the badge with,
2. there are those so paranoid that there will always be a shadow cabal out to get them, they are unstable, and they wont be missed.
3. we will most likely have a significant open bata portion to give people an idea what items are needed for the sets, plus, as pax said earlier, there is no guarentee that the recipies will stay the same from test to live.
4. again, that smacks of paranoia, the people chosen are chosen in part because they really are better testers, their input really is more valuable, i know its difficult for some to conceptualize, but some people are better at things than other people, and as such on a purely technical level, their input really is more important.

guys, try to remember that there will be an open beta too, its not as though only the closed beta testers are going to be testing this, you will get your shot. people make the mistake of thinking that this is soemhow a division of the time we used to have to beta test a issue, its not, if they were doing it the old way, the full beta test would not be happening now, the closed beta is a small and directed group of players who are doing work that would normally have been done by a smaller inhouse team of testers. the beta is still a beta, it just starts out less buggy than before, and goes live sooner because they have gotten useful feedback sooner.

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No player should be in two closed betas in a row.


[/ QUOTE ]cant get behind this, if a bug tester is good, they should get in every closed beta, because they get the job done. they do these closed betas to get bugs fixed, not to give people a chance to play with new toys, im all for mixing around the pool a bit(and this has nothing to do with me not getting picked for the third time in a row:P) but its just madness to say that if someone's doing a job well, they should'nt be called back to do the job right again.

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So actually playing on test more than once in a great while is a silly reason for being invited to closed beta? Giving concise, useful bug reports about what you encounter in the test server is a silly reason to beta test the game? Would you give someone a backstage pass to a concert if the person never bought one of their CD's or merchandise, if you had the choice to give it to someone else who would appreciate it?

Sorry. You have to show you want it before they give it to you. Asking nicely isn't good enough.

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None of which are the crap I'm talking about and none of which seem to have any bearing on who is selected for beta.

If "showing you want it" means having paid for X months ahead of time, then fine, that's how it seems to work.

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Sure it does, Lighthouse mentioned one of the selection factors was logging onto test recently. So from the two criteria he listed I expect it went something like this.

1. select a group from previous beta tests.
2. select additional players from the group of people who had recently logged onto test.

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Well I've been loging into test for a time before today and that didn't get me an invite. But counter note to that I did get an invite to a new game not released yet called Exteel. So hey I guess I should be somewhat happy.

[/ QUOTE ]i agree, i logged in on sunday, had a hunch this might be the day so i wanted to be up to date, but im assuming the last logged on pool was a random one, they pulled from those who logged on, not everyone who logged. i am not that concerned, i cared primarily about weapons customization, and i can look at it already, so ill gladly get in open beta later on when its already been combed through a few times for bugs, id like to be in closed beta, but no biggie. they claim that this should be a short closed cycle. i dunno, weapon customization might lead to some tech issues, so im not setting my hopes too high, but if true, we wont be have nots too long anyhow.

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So actually playing on test more than once in a great while is a silly reason for being invited to closed beta? Giving concise, useful bug reports about what you encounter in the test server is a silly reason to beta test the game? Would you give someone a backstage pass to a concert if the person never bought one of their CD's or merchandise, if you had the choice to give it to someone else who would appreciate it?

Sorry. You have to show you want it before they give it to you. Asking nicely isn't good enough.

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None of which are the crap I'm talking about and none of which seem to have any bearing on who is selected for beta.

If "showing you want it" means having paid for X months ahead of time, then fine, that's how it seems to work.

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Sure it does, Lighthouse mentioned one of the selection factors was logging onto test recently. So from the two criteria he listed I expect it went something like this.

1. select a group from previous beta tests.
2. select additional players from the group of people who had recently logged onto test.

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How does either of those have anything to do with how you pay for your subscription?

All I know it that as soon as I switched from time cards to paying for a larger period of time with a credit card, I received a issue beta invite that day, only a couple days before the issue went into open testing.

Sounds like a halfassed selection process to me.

[/ QUOTE ]dude, im on a six month setup, and no invite, go fish.

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Selection to be included in the closed beta test of Issue 11 is pretty straightforward. We have selected testers who were helpful with previous closed betas and also included accounts who had recently logged into the Training Room.



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Anyone else see the "Catch-22" in the above-mentioned quote?

[/ QUOTE ]not if you include the second part. there are 2 pools mentioned, those who were in previous betas and worked out, and those who were active in the test server. i strongly suspect there is a third group, those who were helpful in open beta, but thats just speculation. but it would only be a catch 22 if they were only allowing people in who had been in the other closed betas, since there is the second condition, no catch 22.

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unsure if this is best to say it, but found a bug already, was looking through costume options, and gladius under dual blades is not showing as visable in hero creator, please delete this and move it as nessasary as I haven't checked to see if I'm in closed beta. it looks like I'm holding air though.

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some of the katanas are not matching right with hands either(EDIT: for women only, men it fits fine). and the gladius seems to be not in the game yet, havent had it show up at all, and on broad sword the kopesh and the falcatta are bugged right now too.

(NOT in cb, just did the character creator thing)
ok love the new weapons, particularly tech mace, didnt notice any new costume sets, but might have overlooked them. rapier is bad [censored]. oh and i anticipate willpower being very popular, built in "stamina" and help with psy. ill have to give it a whirl when i get in in open beta(i never get in, i have made peace with it.)

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[*] Weapon Customization: Players will be able to change their weapons in the same way that they change their costume parts!

[/ QUOTE ] [CENSORED!!!!!!!!!] YEAH!!!!

it was all a dream....

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If I were arctic sun, I would have it say "Dooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooom" in 38 point size, bookman old-style font and color as bright red as the monitor can handle.

This is probably why they don't let me talk to people in my current job...

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I think posting something as simple and yet as mysterious as this - the day before I leave - is tease enough!

cheers,
JS

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leave ?

*ties Arctic to a chair*

You aint going no-where buddy

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o.O

Oh dear... 'Spose it's time to call in the catgirls to torture him.

[/ QUOTE ]how does one sign up for that? ...just sayin.