reiella

Ah, optimistic by my view [then again, RNG hates charactes with my global handle , seriously, a STF with only 1 shard drop ], but it is an easy workable number . Going to respond on two points.

Doing just tip missions, that comes out to 5/day with 35/week. So about 18 days, let's just say 3 weeks for one. Contrasted to 1/week for WSF.

Other aspect do have to consider, the rate needs to be considered against farm groups not necessarily solists. That it benefits solists should be seen as a side-effect, at least in my view. Someone with a better understanding on the numbers could probably provide the metrics, as I really don't even know if the shard rate increases geometrically with team size [as I've seen claims but *shrug*]. But there needs to be restrain on that end.

Now I will admit that there is a difference between 2 hr/week [WSF] commitment and the 1hr/day commitments theoretical, and that's largely an awkwardness of the time-gate constraint, and I'd really prefer to make those comparisons against the Incarnate Trial reward table instead. I really prefer to think of the WSF as a supplementary method [even though currently, it is not], but I can't really do that comparison now.

I will say, though, I think your shard generation rate is overly generous. Or is that rate typically coming from /x8 missions?

They could just cheat them like other MMOs do. Give them a ridiculous level of AE evasion if they aren't being specifically targetted with them. It's suboptimal [and would seriously change the mechanics of Tankerminding], and I think the specific mechanics of this game would make it far too much of a bullet buff, but it is an 'easy' solution [that just carries a lot of baggage]. Still wouldn't solve the "WRAA MELEE SLAM TIME", but may help.

They're also mocapping him for new idle animations at Up Up and Away Burger.

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Hey, look it's an Android widget. That means they're working on an android app! [No it doesn't]

There are also people who cannot complete a single traditional mission due to time constraints. Should they be relegated to only progressing on a story arc once every 3 days? Mostly trying to state, there comes a point where it should reasonable be acceptable to acknowledge some folks aren't going to be able to complete some content.

The tolerance for that may be different for different people, and that's fine, but it should be realized that there is generally a minimum level of interaction actually necessary to play parts of a game.

Gimmick fights can tend to favor certain builds over others. Not necessarily a bad thing. Keep from boss, well that may be easier for ranged builds, or depending on implementation non-pet ranged builds. Keep boss away from an area, far easier for control powersets [or ridiculously annoying for control powersets to manage]. Avoid certain areas yourself [stay out of the fire!] potentially hard for high effect characters [pets come to mind again here, although stone tank sets also come to mind].

These hardships are normalized in a group, so it becomes more doable [although I will say the Ghost Widow run were everyone but the tank was stuck using temp vet powers because we couldn't manage to avoid her drain sucked].

It's disproportionate in difficulty for different builds. Which is the point other's were trying to make, and showing that it is difficult to manage that. As a fun sidenote, I remember with CoV beta/launch the grumpiness over how many Elite Bosses and Heroes showed up in lower level arcs, because, while some builds could manage them easily, other's couldn't and got forced to actually find teams to clear the mission. Also rather well evidenced in this thread, how you see different people's experience with Shard generation rates.

Similar statement here, that was trying to get through [and failed], perhaps your experience shouldn't be the balance point for shard generation?

I think you'll be surprised to find people have differing opinions on different issues normally. But then again, I'm just a whiner.

Replying from phone, so apologies.

It's not about depleting the resources only of the very rich, but providing an economic sink. Wealth is a generated in a bottom up method for this game. Further, it is important to realize that the crafting is not exclusive to solists, but also traditional farmers. And thanks to the changes in difficulty sliders, they don't need to pad.

You are right in that it's primary intent doesn't appear to be a currency sink, just being allowed that function.

I will say that me personally, I get more currency while solo than in TFs. RNG hates me on the rares. Others in the thread have described easy currency gains while solo.

Well, we have to actually see the reward system to make that judgment. If it ends up being a 'ranking' system for rewards amongst the participants [ie, whoever scores the most 'participation points' get the 'big prize', everyone else gets consolation prizes, like open quests tend to behave], that's a different matter than simply having to reach a 'threshold' point for certain rewards.

Really, we need to know the metrics, but, I am hopefully that the Incarnate Trials do become the primary method [the setup makes them look like they are intended to be]. Time will tell .

My perspective is someone remarked on the 100m, other's jump on saying it's not that hard now. And then the initial poster tries to respond to other side remarks in that post, thus prolonging the discussion about the 100m, when really, they've accepted that the 100M isn't really important [currently].

People [like me!] just keep bringing it up.

A fair point, however, something I would like to contest. The I20 Incarnate Trials also supposedly provide a method to obtain the Notice, that isn't time-gated. They might make a better immediate comparison. WSF method is still very relevant though, as it may turn out to be easier than the Incarnate Trials, and then become the de facto primary method.

Also, I kind of like that the combine up isn't time gated, in theory it may actually consume more Inf out of the system, but given the Shard #, I doubt it. Personally, I'd like to see the hard salvage count [not including the uncommon salvage and all that] get closer to maybe 20 or 30 instead of 40, just for progression consistency. It's really "weird" that the Notice -> Well takes 32, while Uncommon -> Notice takes 40. But that'll be what beta is for testing.

Do you only solo? The numbers posted are likely accurate, however, the rate is not so accurate when you consider the geometric [I may be using wrong term here, me sad] growth rate when you begin to team for them.

I imagine the later is probably more so the cause for the issue being what it is. They don't really want to have it be more optimal to run farm groups than TFs.

I don't really like the number where it is now, mostly as it's really odd to require more shards for Uncommon -> Rare than for Rare -> V. Rare, but I don't have the datamining supported projections of acquisition rate.

I like it myself, no time limit so there's hope that it may actually deplete some of the excess currency. But I doubt it will.

Thought your avatar was the picture of the warship they added to CaD.

Nothing in game currently. Just in the NCSoft Launcher and the forums.

I did mean I19. Although to be honest, I wouldn't classified CoP as a new tf either, it's actually turning on the old trial that was around I6 or I7? Same with Calvin Scott getting turned on (how did I miss that, doodz!).

I19 had three new story arcs? Hmm, I'll be honest, I only saw Ramiel, and while there is technically a hero and a villain version, they are practically identical. Ah Vincent Ross and Cooling, I see. My level bias blinded me to them. Which is unforunate on my part. Thank you.

You made a good point, and called me out when I factually inaccurate, I do appreciate that. It is, after all, the only way I'll learn .

I actually rather like that idea, perhaps not inf cap, but at a sufficiently high price to introduce another downward force of the economy of the game. Something I feel that Inf->A. Merit is meant to be, but that is simple 'too little' at it's current rate. Or perhaps more like what the Inf->Prestige conversion was supposed to do. Hmm, not getting the best record of inf-sink efficacy .

I do hope that the time-gate gets mitigated a bit [be it through integration with other Incarnate ability fabrication or what-not] however. But time will tell .

http://tomax.cohtitan.com/story_arcs/

690/721 or so, I'm sure I miscounted a little bit there in deciding what to include/exclude. I did exclude the pvp mission counts though, and the intros. *shrug*, comes off a bit closer to 96% though.

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Point of clarity however. The problem is more so in reference to the development of new/additional content. With I18, for instance, there was one new story arcs and two TFs being perhaps the most blatant. As opposed to in the past where we've had multiple story-arcs (Croatoa, RWZ, and Cimerora) and a TF.

I've personally have had better luck with STF over LRSF. I like LRSF mind you, it's a fun setup. It feels like it requires far more clockwork alignment of fortune than STF [the 8-AV fight versus the pull/Ghost Widow cheese].

Not just that, but also keep some information to be exclusive to certain media outlets so that it can generate more buzz about the product.

That said, the bulk of the reason for lack of discourse with a product is going to typically be, as you say, not to release information that may not be valid when it actually does come to pass. More so when you are talking about an 'older' game such as CoH, since there's not a whole lot of media interest in your title anymore. I imagine some of it still becomes habit, but in general, it's different.

Also, it's kind of awkward to expect a business to be as candid with it's plans as an open-source or hobby driven project. Some reasons on that as well, some justified, some not so much, but it's part of the reality of being a business. SecondLife does an ok job with that perspective, that said, I feel it does well because many of the players fill the role of developer as well.

Quite, and agreed. There's no point in playing if you don't enjoy it. I'd suggest giving the grouping a try if you are capable of it, and if lacking the perks of the Rare level shift causes you not to have fun, move on [and certainly, cite the reasons in your exit survey ].

By a similar note, I don't think it's pointed to discuss future content [caveat, I don't consider the alpha slot itself to be content, but instead, Apex, Tin Mage, and Ramiel as content, this difference may not be the same as others] being gated to require [directly or indirectly] the rare alpha slot to perform.

It comes off more to be as being a response to the exit surveys. I don't have that information, mind you, and this is simply anecdotal, but I know many people who quit CoH over the lack of an end-game. And it is a bit of a fallacy to argue that they know what they are doing, I do concede that.

However, I do question the 'defended to the stubborn teeth', since, that's not coming from 'corporate' in this case, but instead, from some of the customers. Also, we only see the dissent from the side of the customers. It's an unfair statement to blame faceless 'suits', since frankly the information isn't there. Blame the entity as a whole, sure, fine. That's fairly reasonable, especially for a decision from the entity affecting the gameplay.

If it does drive you to quit though, please, fill out the exit survey and state that's why. At least then there's a chance the 'suits' will take notice.

To me, it came off less the hypothetical version of the game, but the current version of the game with WST. Also, I felt the presentation of your typical introvert came off far closer to an avoidant personality.

Just to state something I think I said before, the extent to which you are taking introverted behavior feels a bit more like the abnormal/excessive side of the scale.

Introverted people engage in 'extroverted' activities not just because the extroverts force them to, but because we are social creatures. There are some real extreme introverts that do manage to forgo interaction entirely, but they are far fewer than the 25% of folks who test as introverts on a Myers-Briggs.

I personally test out as introverted (intj/intp depending on the test but that really shouldn't matter). And I actually do tend to enjoy group activities [raiding and teaming]. What determines if I am 'drained' after a raid is how well the raid went, and how long the raid went. My own personal experience may well be atypical, but your description of a typical introvert seems a bit off to me.

One note though, as many here can prolly agree, internet actions are also semi-anonymous and distant. As such, the extroverted activities aren't as extroverted as they would be in the 'real world'.

Not too sure what I'm really trying to get at here either.

Fun sidenote, video gamers do actually tend to be more extroverted than introverted, against the stereotype. [ http://www.marketingcharts.com/inter...n-gamers-6560/ ]

There are some neat studies about video gamers though, and mmos that are cropping up in the universities which should [hopefully] give some insight on the changing culture.

I'd contend there have been other forms of character advancement in this game that have required teaming, however, I will also concede that they didn't present themselves as thoroughly as a 'level'. There is a difference in perception there for most, I know .

Soloing is certainly not against the premise of a MMO, in fact, it has become a lynchpin. Especially in games with 'end-game' content that is raid/team based. You need a way to get to the end-level and be able to enter the end-game as a new character. Leveling specifically is very important for that. So it does remain to be seen how the level shift actually applies in that context. I do feel that an EQ style AA-gate [Mistmoore, forgot the expansion] would not be a good fit for this game, but will remain to see how it presents itself.

One comment I would like to make though, kind of the opposite of the 'quit if you don't like it'. This is a bald assertion, and I have no metrics to support it, just personal experience. A lot of players quit due to the lack of an end game. I don't think this is quite 'there' yet [frankly, more varied content than just tank + spank is needed imo]. But it is an attempt to address that concern. Not saying it'll work or not, but it did get me back to subscribing.

Just to clarify something that I feel may have gotten missed.

I was baiting a question initially. It wasn't a fair tactic, I'll admit . I like Demons as an open choice. I like robots as an open choice too. There's no real problem from utilizing either in your characters how you want. You can usually fit system mechanics to fit your character somehow, maybe with a bit of fudging [consider : Manticore with teleport before the comic changed the rules], but it's workable.

The part I see of being troubling is Ramiel's arc, there is the path on rails aspect, but it's a mission arc, they tend to have that problem in general, they put words/actions/motivations in your path. The arc did a good job of varying up the 'Incarnate' device for the origin. Sure it may not be varied or generic enough for some, but it's a good step in that direction. Personally, it feels far less 'forced origin typing' than the Invention system, but even that is still manageable.

I don't personally have a problem with the 'Well' being a meta-origin. I accept that the interpretations of it were subjective. I actually did kind of like that Recluse initially thought of it in terms of some sort of special radiation that improved him. I'll also be honest and state I never really finished reading the book, just started it and got bored with it, so I'm not too sure when/how that attitude changed.

They all regenerate to prevent them from being zerged in missions. Of course, STF kinda goes against that slightly.

They have near immunity to most debuffs because if they weren't immune to those debuffs, they wouldn't be a challenge/fun encounter [specifically there, the purple Triangles come to mind].

It's frustrating and annoying, but that's also baggage because the game has until fairly recently only utilized tank and spank encounters instead of the more 'gimmicky' options used to create difficulty.