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Posts
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Quote:Let's clarify. I didn't say you're neglecting controls. Controls are the response to the mobs you've presented. I am saying that when you play at range you are underutilizing the melee and PBAoE attacks present in both sets which are presenting significant damage, sapping ability, and regeneration/recovery. All of those things combined outweigh a ranged attack chain.Oh, I'm not neglecting controls. I'm using those, too. I'm saying building for defense by taking stuff like Weave or 3-5 slotting Maneuvers is silly just to go after the elusive soft cap when it neglects a ranged chain. That was my OP.
Soft capped SL defense is irrelevant when targets are controlled then destroyed from melee AND range depending on the circumstance. Building with Def as a priority gimps a lot of builds. Now if you can get your def up and have perma, plus melee, plus ranged, great. Go for it.
As for your original point of contention, you've suggested that range is a necessity for a Dominator, that one couldn't survive melee with an AV or face trouble against particular mobs. Well, I've already shown that a dom can go toe to toe with an AV. The rest of the mobs are just fodder to be ground up by a well built dom. The only one that is a mild annoyance are the Super Stunners, but there's a simple tactic of finishing them off at range which you don't need a full ranged attack chain to do... or just not worrying about it due to the impressive amount of recovery between CA and DP.
As for the irrelevance of soft-capped defenses, I'll toss out the first and most obvious point. You can't control everything. Elec/Psi will have trouble against Nemesis because all of their mobs resist confusion and many resist sleep. Cimerorans can present some trouble if they're not dealt with correctly (confused first so they don't buff one another's mez protection). The second point is that you can't hit everything. At best you have a 95% chance to hit a mob. When you have a large group of enemies, your chances of mezzing everything start dropping; on average you will mez most, but the often at least one or two will be missed. With that some damage will creep through and at higher difficulty settings that creep can be quite a lot. That's why I build for the layered mitigation of mez/defense and if available healing. I feel that provides far more mitigation than I would get from occasionally attacking at range.
Of course, these goals aren't realistic for every dom build. It's dependent on the combination of primary/secondary. Mind/Fire definitely has more reason to utilize range than a Fire/Earth, for example. I probably wouldn't build for smashing/lethal defense on the former, but with the latter I certainly would. It's also dependent on how much you wish to invest in a character. As Milady's Knight said earlier, it's going to be an expensive build. My original post was directed at the notion that defense is pointless on a perma-dom. That's a point I contend with for a number of reasons. If it is possible and desirable for someone to build for perma-dom and defense then I highly recommend it. -
I think they highest level I've ever deleted was a level 36 or 37 warshade. I have retired 50s, stripping them of their IOs and retiring them to a server I don't play.
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Quote:That's an interesting idea with Shiver, a small but potent buff. As is, I have taken Shiver on my Ice Controller, but respecced in and out of it. It's useful in the absence of additional slows, but a bit redundant if you have slows in your attacks. I never could decide definitively if it was useful or not. Putting -range would definitely mesh it more closely with AA and possibly make it preferable to a power like Snow Storm, at least for trollers.EDIT2: After watching the video myself, it does make me wish Shiver had a -Range debuff. You can see, I think, that generally the biggest threat to me is anything that gets outside AA. If I could make enemies run toward me more often I'd be a lot better off. Knockdown working with Immobilize would help a lot too (you can see I use the immob very often, specifically to keep enemies positioned. The slow is useful not because its a primary goal but because it means anything temporarily able to move is less able to catch me, usually while another power animates).
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In all of those scenarios you have your controls to fall back on; mez first then melee second. The best part is that with Synaptic Overload those problems suddenly invert themselves and work to your benefit. Even more importantly, you have to move in if you want to utilize CA or Drain Psyche (and eventually Psychic Shockwave), otherwise you're losing out on your best -end and -recovery.
Between Conductive Aura, Drain Psyche, Mind Probe, TK Thrust, and Psychic Shockwave, you have 5 total powers that require you to enter into close combat. I think it's fairly neglectful to ignore those powers so you attack from range. It sacrifices sapping and damage for fear of avoiding some damage that can be easily mitigated with your other controls. -
It does have better debuff values on a Controller, 81.25% -recharge v. 65% -recharge in Shiver for example, making it much easier to floor the recharge on higher conning enemies. Personally, I think debuffs that mitigate damage (-recharge and -tohit) from a Dom's primary should share the same value as a controllers.
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Ah, there's Boomie. I was going to mention your feats with your Elec/Cold, but I don't like to speak for others' experiences too often.
The +recharge proc can fire on the player but only on activation of JC. -
Quote:I wanted to put my money where my mouth was so I went and soloed Chimera. Chimera was a level 50 AV and my dom was level 50+1; I have all my incarnate slots, but didn't use Judgement, Lore, or Destiny in this fight. I used about 6-7 inspirations through out the fight (3 sturdy, 3-4 respites), mostly I tried to keep my health topped off because he can one-shot you provided you're missing just a tick of health from another attack.At level 50 with IOs and incarnates.
What about lvl 1-40 as you're leveling up? Plinking away with Dart and Cage won't cut it.
Oh and I'd like to see all you folks stand next to an AV with your melee bravado and show me why you don't need a ST ranged chain.
Here's the demorecord: http://www.mediafire.com/?fby8g766zr6nk2c
If I knew a better way to capture it I would so you could see my trays and inspirations.
It's not my intent to mislead so I will say this. There definitely are situations where melee isn't advisable (MoM and part of the Romi fight). A ranged single target attack chain would be nice to have for those encounters, but it isn't the only viable way to play. You'll be able to survive a lot with perma-dom and capped defenses that you won't with perma-dom alone. Knowing the encounter, managing your inspirations, and utilizing your powers to your best ability will go a long way however. -
Quote:If it's possible to achieve perma-dom and cap some defenses then I go for it. However, I can't say that it's an easy goal. Sometimes it requires sacrifices in the build that aren't ideal and it's almost always very expensive. Some sets are naturally more inclined towards it as well.In all honesty, I would bypass defense on a dominator, especially if you can't grab anything substantial. I've my dominators purely on +recharge, and never felt week for it. Your safety comes from your powers, the faster they are up, the safer you are.
Quote:I'm a bit late to this shindig, but some points on Mind/...
A third of your powers are non-aggro- both confuses, and your sleep. As they do not notify, they also do not suppress stealth. So you have three ways of turning the tide of a fight before anything is onto you or, if you are invisible, they can even see you. Mind/ perma-doms are odd in that they can be the most powerful invisibility characters in the game. Something to bear in mind.
Quote:Total aside: as dominators live and die on powers and their recharge, a winter's gift slow/-recharge resist IO is quite handy. It can be slotted in teleport powers and the like too. -
Quote:I created the character before power customization came about with a vague concept in mind. Mind Control and Radiation Emission both suited the magical look and effects I wanted to have and were fun sets to play. I've always been fond of playing some of the more visually ambiguous powersets (Rad was good for this) as something other than what the description states. If everything was as described by the game I'd find that stifling to a lot of ideas.Nope. Never felt compelled to.
Something that helps me here is that I never create a character trying to meet some external concept using in-game powersets. All of my characters are created specifically as whatever powersets and ATs they are at character creation. I decide I want to try, say, a Kin/WP Scrapper, or a Dark/Dark Defender, and create a character whose origin and backstory fit that, not the other way around. This means I pretty much never feel compelled to re-roll someone because new powersets come out that better match their concept.
That and the notion that I don't level something all the way to 50 unless I enjoy it a lot means my characters are pretty stable.
At any rate, the concept wasn't written in stone or even in her bio, it was just in my head. When I actually reached 50 the concept was very different from what I had originally conceived. Power customization really let me span the gap between how the game described her powers and how I viewed them. It also opened up a lot of possibility other sets to simulate the visual effects I liked.
Of course, now there are new possibilities, but that doesn't take away how much I enjoyed playing her. In fact, maybe I'll get to enjoy her story again.
Why? Well, I've developed her story the most (even if only in my head), possibly invested the most time in her, and enjoyed playing her throughout all her levels. I really like the character and her story.
Quote:Any character I don't fall in love with is deleted, and any powerset I dislike is rerolled to something I like better. It's not any big deal, though occasionally annoying to re-do the same content for badges. It's just what you do as a part of normal CoX gameplay.... isn't it?
But there's more... there's a certain sense of attachment. The character is, in a way, a souvenir of the fun I had with my friends (and some strangers). I could trade in that old sea shell for a new shiny one with cool spikes, but it isn't going to remind me of the time I went to the beach with my buddies.
Quote:Do your other characters resent the "Main"? Are people aware that they are are going to make their less loved characters undergo years of therapy to undo this kind of damage? If you can't love them all, don't have them! It's cruel!
Quote:And does everyone rank their characters in terms of good, better, "Main"? Or "Lieutenant-General Main" or "Vice Main" or "First Runner-Up Main" (in case the "Main" cannot perform his/her duties)?
Whole concept befuddles me.
Quote:Why take the time and trouble to get a character to 50, flesh out a fitting bio, trick it out with the best you can afford to see just how good it can be, if it's not (in your own head) a great and wonderful creation? -
Quote:For my plant/psi, I pretty much use Probe, TK Thrust, and Psychic Shockwave. Of course, knockback isn't a problem there due to roots. Range is a weak point, but there are very few situations (MoM and maybe while the auto-hit Nictus is up during the ITF) where I've ever felt the need to play at range. Even then, you just suck it up like any other meleer would and add the tiny bits of range damage you can.What exactly is the attack chain? Dart, probe, tkt, box? Pretty weak. Dart does piddly amounts of dmg and tkt will keep knocking foes out of melee. Only good attack there is probe. And there's no ranged st chain at all. What happens when you need to fight from range? Dart and cage?
Some of these defense builds really confuse me. Give me control and damage any day.
In the end, I'm comfortable giving up a ranged attack chain if it enables me to face greater odds. While controls do mitigate a lot of damage, once you crank the difficulty up a surprising amount will find its way through. I'll definitely take the layered mitigation over a single type, whether it be control, defense, or debuffs. -
Quote:Yeah, I've got a similar situation. I'm holding the big star at the moment, and I do love to see the billions of influence I earned for the SG.I love to remake my namesake, problem is he is founder of my SG.
It's also the reason i don't like to do a global handle/forum rename.
I don't really use him, but he is and will always be the leader of the SG, my 1st 50 and i think it's nostalgia that i'm holding on to him. -
With Dark Control looming on the horizon, I'm giving some serious thought to rerolling my main. She's currently a Mind/Rad controller with all her powers tinted dark purples or black. The powers weren't terribly important to the concept, though Terrify and Rad's debuffs suited it well, and power customization means a lot of things could be adapted to suit her backstory (oooh, spooky other-worldly entity!). After playing a Dark/Time on beta I think it would suit her just as well and be more effective... so now I'm left with the dilemma?
Delete and reroll? Transfer and reclaim the name? Just start a new character?
What have other people done when they've bumped against this problem? Did your attachment to the character or the thought of redoing so many badges stand in the way? -
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I considered it for /storm too. I've already got the recharge to double up on Tornado and Lightning Storm. It would be quite something to have 3-4 out.
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I agree that we probably won't ever see a motorcycle. Strafing and jumping just wouldn't work.
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Quote:The thing that make Mass Hypnosis superior to other sleeps is the fact that it does not aggro the mobs. That means you can lay it down before other controls to soften return fire. You can also quietly stack it without the enemy becoming aware.Thanks for the numbers. They'll help me get the build together.
As for Mass Hypnosis, I was under the impression that AoE Sleeps were usually skipped since team mates are likely to just wake mobs up with their own AoEs. I can see the usefulness solo though. That being said, it does provide a place to pick up another cheap Recharge bonus so I'll go ahead and take it.
Still not sure whether going after Smashing/Lethal Resistance is worth it or if I should forgo that route to focus on Defense. Any insight on that would be great. -
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Quote:That's the amount listed on the wiki entry for Perma Domination. You can also calculate it with the following formula:Where are you getting that number? Is that including some average for Hasten factoring in its downtime or something?
For builds with Hasten I've always seen around 75% as the minimum amount of global recharge (not including Hasten) for perma-Dom. My experience has borne that out. I usually shoot for around 100% global recharge so that I don't have to be overly attentive to firing Hasten as soon as it recharges.
recharge = base recharge/(100% + buffs)
We need Dom to recharge in 90 seconds to match its duration and its base recharge is 200 seconds
90 = 200/(1.0+X)
Solve for X and you get 1.222 or 122.2% recharge needed for perma-dom. That's a flat amount of global recharge needed to reach perma-dom, not the amount needed with Hasten.
My post was worded in a confusing manner. When I said I shoot for 140-150% recharge that does include 70% from Hasten, though I recognize that it does not provide a flat 70%. I tend to go for 70%-80% global recharge from sources other than Hasten. What I intended to communicate was that you could not, for example, build for 55% global recharge, place one slot in Hasten, and achieve perma-dom. -
Quote:Personally, I slot end mod for better sapping in CA (and Chain Fences) rather than the self-buffs. As I noted before perma-dom has some limited benefits for Electric, it'll help your holds and immobilizes but Synaptic Overload only gets Dom on the first target and Static Field, doesn't at all. You won't have the strong, fast recharging hard controls like you would a Fire or Earth perma-dom. That said, I do think it's extremely useful to have perma-dom. The mez protection alone makes it worth working towards.This doesn't look too bad. I do not understand why people do not slot +heal in CA though. Even if it is small, it stacks with heal, and if you are running 8 man mishs (with an elec/psi, you really should be), you have a very impressive bonus to heal, especially if you take spiritual alpha with its heal bonus. Putting +end proc in CA is _useless_ if you are running permadom. I mean, hello? Permadom? Perma end-refill? It does not make much sense to spend the amerits/money on it when you are constantly refilling your end from dom.
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The bare minimum for perma-dom is 123%. Be aware that you can't include a flat 70% from Hasten into that unless you've also reached perma-Hasten as well. I'd have to find Arcana's post on calculating recharge to give you a better numberi ncluding downtime on Hasten. As a general idea I shoot for 140%-150% recharge with 3 slotted Hasten as a comfortable minimum that allows you to miss activating either immediately.
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Quote:VG is no more a chance to hold than any other AoE hold. It may appear to function like powers with a chance to hold, i.e. Distortion Field from Time Manipulation, but what it is actually doing is spawning several pseudo-pets that will attack with a short duration AoE hold. Once properly slotted with Accuracy and Hold Duration this power is capable of self-stacking holds and holding bosses. With the Lockdown: Chance for +2 mag it goes from very good to overwhelming in it's ability to lockdown mobs. It is arguably the best AoE hold of any control set. Unfortunately, however, it is unaffected by Domination.
Volcanic Gasses (26) An aoe hold, except it only has a chance at a hold and it is not a very high one. This is a good panic power, but is not reliable. Slot for accuracy and hold duration. It has a long recharge so you could slot for recharge, but you should not be using it that often. -
Quote:Fine. Let's break this down by AT then.let me try to explain again
my problem with the dominator is that I am not slotting enhancements as I said in my OP
but that is not nearly as big an issue with any other AT
Sure, they have some defensive powers, but they're also lacking the things that make those work so well, enhancements and the hp that will scale up with level.
Quote:Stalker a bit with AS, but if it misses you can just wait and try again
Quote:blasters aren't really that dependent on one attack hitting
Quote:controllers can use their buffs/debuffs or self heal to sway the fight
Aside from a few early blooming secondaries (Radiation, Time, Storm, and maybe TA), soloing a controller from 1-20 is slow and tedious.
Quote:defenders and corrs are not dependent on one hit
Quote:It is really just dominators that are so reliant upon that one power hitting at low levels when soloing. At least in my experience.
can you think of another AT that relies so much on one attack hitting? -
I'm going to offer a differing opinion. First, your slotting for defense isn't a waste. You'll be entering melee for Conductive Aura and smashing/lethal mitigates a lot of damage you'll encounter there. Secondly, Electric is somewhat limited in its benefit from perma-dom; your important every spawn controls (Static Field and Synaptic Overload) aren't affected by it* and higher mag immobilizes are of dubious value. However, the higher mag Electric Cage and mez protection you get from perma-dom are quite handy, as is Paralyzing Blast even if it's on a long recharge.
*SO only has higher mag and duration on the first target.
I would place perma-dom and softcap defenses on equal footing as build goals. It is quite possible to have both. In fact, you have far more than enough recharge to make domination permanent. It wouldn't hurt to sacrifice a small amount of recharge to shore up your defenses. You could probably lose as much as 20% recharge and still sit in a comfortable place with perma-dom.
Here's a build I tossed together quickly based around my plant/psi. There are probably some obvious flaws that I'm missing at the moment, but it hits your goals of perma-dom, softcapped lethal/smashing, and adequate endurance sapping.
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.952
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Rosolia: Level 50 Magic Dominator
Primary Power Set: Electric Control
Secondary Power Set: Psionic Assault
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Ice Mastery
Villain Profile:
Level 1: Tesla Cage -- BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(A), BasGaze-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(3), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold(3), BasGaze-Acc/Hold(5)
Level 1: Psionic Dart -- Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), Decim-Acc/Dmg(7), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(7), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx(9), Decim-Dmg/Rchg(9)
Level 2: Mind Probe -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(11), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(13)
Level 4: Chain Fences -- Efficacy-EndMod/Acc(A), TotHntr-Dam%(5), Efficacy-EndMod/EndRdx(19), Enf'dOp-Acc/EndRdx(25), TotHntr-Acc/EndRdx(25), Posi-Dam%(27)
Level 6: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(19), RechRdx-I(23)
Level 8: Conductive Aura -- Efficacy-EndMod/Acc(A), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(13), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(21)
Level 10: Telekinetic Thrust -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), Acc-I(21), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(15), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(17), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(17)
Level 12: Static Field -- FtnHyp-Sleep/EndRdx(A), FtnHyp-Acc/Sleep/Rchg(15), FtnHyp-Acc/Rchg(23), FtnHyp-Sleep/Rchg(42), FtnHyp-Sleep(43)
Level 14: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 16: Psychic Scream -- Posi-Dmg/Rchg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(29), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(29), Posi-Dam%(31), Posi-Acc/Dmg(31)
Level 18: Fly -- Winter-ResSlow(A)
Level 20: Hover -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 22: Drain Psyche -- Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(A), Nictus-Acc/Heal(33), Nictus-Acc/EndRdx/Heal/HP/Regen(33), H'zdH-Heal/Rchg(34), Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg(34), Efficacy-Acc/Rchg(34)
Level 24: Paralyzing Blast -- EoCur-Acc/Hold/Rchg(A), BasGaze-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(36), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(36), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold(36), BasGaze-Acc/Hold(37)
Level 26: Synaptic Overload -- CoPers-Conf/EndRdx(A), CoPers-Conf%(27), CoPers-Conf/Rchg(37), CoPers-Acc/Conf/Rchg(37), CoPers-Acc/Rchg(39)
Level 28: Boxing -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(39), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(40), KntkC'bat-Knock%(40)
Level 30: Tough -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A)
Level 32: Gremlins -- ExRmnt-Acc/Rchg(A), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40), ExRmnt-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(42), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg(42)
Level 35: Sleet -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(46), Achilles-ResDeb%(46)
Level 38: Psychic Shockwave -- Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Oblit-%Dam(39), Oblit-Dmg(43), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(43), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(45)
Level 41: Frozen Armor -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+(45), LkGmblr-Def(46)
Level 44: Weave -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+(48), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(48)
Level 47: Ice Storm -- Posi-Dam%(A), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(48), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(50), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(50), Posi-Acc/Dmg(50)
Level 49: Hibernate -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 50: Spiritual Core Paragon
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 0: Portal Jockey
Level 0: Task Force Commander
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- ULeap-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Domination
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(31), EndMod-I(33)
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Quote:It means it takes you 25% longer to reach the next enemy. A mish you could finish in 10 minutes, takes 12 and a half. It is worse for ATs with active defenses, or none at all, but the lack of accuracy slows down everyone.not really
if it takes 4 hits to take out an enemy, missing once and taking 5 hits is not that big of a deal
Quote:but with a dom I have one chance to hold the enemy. Missing that 25% of the time is far worse.
Quote:it is the active defense issue. The single target hold is just so much more important.
Quote:Not as much of an issue with mind and plant where you have more controls. But with earth having such long recharge in earthquake and stalagmites having such long recharge, below 22 I usually have to rely upon that one hold to carry me through the fight.
Quote:I can't think of any other AT that has that issue.
Scrappers/tankers/brutes have their defense
Stalker a bit with AS, but if it misses you can just wait and try again
blasters aren't really that dependent on one attack hitting
controllers can use their buffs/debuffs or self heal to sway the fight
defenders and corrs are not dependent on one hit
It is really just dominators that are so reliant upon that one power hitting at low levels when soloing. At least in my experience.
can you think of another AT that relies so much on one attack hitting? -
Maybe those fights wouldn't take as long if you didn't miss as much... Even with Streakbreaker and Beginner's Luck (a tohit buff that degrades until it vanishes after level 20), I like to have a least one accuracy enhancement in all powers.