firespray
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Posts
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Joined
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I have some characters that I want to use an aura with, but no cape. It's really annoying that I have to do the whole boring cape arc before I can get the aura mission. There's really no good reason to have it set up that way. Can we get that changed?
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I've never used it. Literally not once. I don't want to move slower, I want to move faster.
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Quote:The idea is that after issue 24, in-game procs and store-bought procs will be identical, and both use the new PPM mechanic.Originally Posted by Dark Energon
Ok i read a few pages, not all....
No comment on the comments.
Forgive me if i do not wanna read through all these pages for a few questions i have.
I'd like to know if the store and regular versions will be the same, or if the store version will be better.
i just hope that both versions will be the same. -
Quote:There are still some differences between those things and the change to procs. Those were fluff changes (and strictly graphical fluff changes to boot). And they didn't come with any downsides. This affects performance. And it's a nerf to some procs in some situations. And that always leads people to ask why it's being done more than a buff (or something that doesn't affect performance one way or the other). And a lot of people don't agree that this makes gameplay better.Originally Posted by Zombie Man
You keep saying "for 5 years" as if that trumps changing. With that attitude, we wouldn't have added Ultra Mode or revamped Atlas Park or made any number of changes which have benefited players and the players were thankful for because they made game-play better.
I'm not saying the devs shouldn't be allowed to change things just because they've existed for awhile. I'm not even saying that they didn't have some valid reasons to make this particular change.
All I'm saying is that I think it's perfectly valid to question why a change (that requires some nerfs to performance) is being made when we've seen little evidence that it needs to be changed.
I never disagreed with this.Quote:Originally Posted by Zombie Man
No matter how old a system has been in place, even if from day one, it is susceptible to change. Period.
This is kind of my point. I don't think that most players felt there was anything wrong with procs. Logically, yes, there are some issues with procs that this fixes. But judging by the lack of complaint on the issue, I think it's safe to say that the majority of players didn't FEEL like procs were something that needed fixing.Quote:Originally Posted by Zombie Man
Now obviously, one doesn't just start changing everything willy-nilly for no good reason... that just ticks people off. But there were very good reasons for revisiting Procs: Too many were too weak to be worth using. Other were only worth using in fast recharging powers or auto or toggles or patches while doing negligible work in single target or long recharging powers. -
Quote:I'm not saying that it's hard to believe they wanted to do this to improve procs overall. I have no doubt that they're telling the truth and that's exactly why they brought out the new PPM system. I simply don't agree that procs were enough of a problem to expend the effort improving. And I think the way they've handled this is pretty crappy customer service.Originally Posted by UberGuy
Why is it so hard to imagine that they wanted to improve the overall behavior of the proc system? Especially when they told us they were trying to.
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Quote:I'm guessing air control turned into storm summoning. Cold control and fire control we have. Core power...I have no freaking clue. Super personality, maybe that turned into the leadership pool, or maybe mind control? Super willpower we got as willpower. Density control probably became a mix of gravity control and kinetics.Originally Posted by Doc_Reverend
With powers, I see things like the demo guy picking Air Control, Cold Control, Core Powers, and Fire Control, with room for a bunch more. Listed on the menu are powers that we got, or eventually did (like Plant Control and Poisons), but also things like Super Personality, Super Willpower, and Density Control.
Edit: Just looked at it myself. I also noticed:
Super stamina (probably became fitness)
Electricity control (funny how long it took us to actually get this one)
Gravity control (which lends some doubt to the idea of density control becoming gravity control)
Kinetic control (Kinetics probably)
Life Drain (Dark Melee or Dark armor maybe)
Light control (I'd actually kind of like to see this still)
Paralysis (Not sure how you'd build a whole power set out of that)
Psionics (Psi blast most likely, or maybe mind control)
Radiation control (Radiation emission and/or radiation blast)
Shape shifting (we kind of got this with khelds)
Sonic control (Sonic blast and/or sonic resonance)
Super vision (no idea what this would entail)
Telekinesis (mind control again maybe)
Crey and 5th column were listed among the enemies, so I'm guessing they were not the same as twilight men and revelation. -
Quote:I'm really not sure that explains it. I'm not arguing that they would try to develop pay to win strategies. It's clear that they will. But why waste the development effort on developing a whole new proc system just to implement pay to win procs in the real money store when they could have just put the same flat chance procs we have now in there but increased the chance to trigger. Same end result, lots less work.Originally Posted by Two5boy
Ok i will give a no B'S answer to this, the Devs created the PPM system for SBE to make them more attractive on the market and hoping to make a ton of money on them through players wanting to improve the performance of their characters. But they did not anticipate the amount of whiny people on the forums so they realise now they have to make a change but at the same time they gave aggravated those that have spent money on the procs so now they want to make a middle of the road solution.
If this was not true then why they didn't apply the formula to SBE and ingame procs from the beginning -
Quote:A pretty cool idea actually. I'd probably try one out. Maybe have -def and -dam be the secondary effects rather than -def and -res. That seems more fitting to me for some reason. The spear attacks sound like kind of a problem too, since there are no spear powers in the game at the moment, or were you just thinking of using staff powers and having a spear model?Originally Posted by Risko_Vinsheen
I know this has been suggested quite often ever since the announcement of Demon Summoning but during a moment of clarity in my tiredness this morning I thought of something I think could be a fun set for Angelic Summoning.
To make it clear, as far as the summons are concerned, I'm imagining the pets appearing visually similar to the Magic: The Gathering style angels. The ones that wear armor and carry swords into battle.
The powers I came up with would be something like the following:
Cosmic Bolt - Ranged, Minor DMG (Fire/Energy), Foe -Defense, -ToHit
Summon Angels - Use a combination of 'Divine' ranged attacks and Broadsword melee attacks
Celestial Light - Ranged, High DMG (Fire/Energy), Foe -To Hit, -Res
Bless Angels - First upgrade. Visually represented by giving a halo to the angels.
Solar Flare* - Ranged (Cone), High DMG (Fire/Energy), Foe -To Hit, -Res, Stun
Summon Valkyries - Use spear-like melee and ranged attacks and provide Leadership-like damage and resistance (or damage and ToHit) buffs to other angels.
Divine Wrath - Consume secondary effect buff to PBAoE increase speed, recharge, and damage of pets.
Summon Archangel - Uses fiery ranged attacks and powerful melee attacks with a large (Titan Weapon scale) sword.
Exalt Angels - Second upgrade. Visually represented by applying an aura to the angels. Alpha for Angels, Beastly Rage (without breath) for Valkyries, and Bio Plasma for Archangel.
The gimmick would be somewhat similar to Beast Mastery's Pack Mentality, in that it stacks with each attack of the Mastermind and the pets. The secondary effects of each attack (debuffs, stuns, etc., this applies to pet secondary effects as well) will start small but as this buff is stacked they increase in effectiveness. I was thinking that maybe this could also apply (albeit at a much smaller rate) to secondary powersets, but then that could be potentially too overpowered.
The Fortify Pack/Gang War/Hell on Earth/etc. level power would consume these secondary effect buff levels to increase the movement and attack speed of the pets and provide a small damage buff as well.
Feedback appreciated. Just please be nice :P This is my first attempt at 'designing' a powerset.
*Solar Flare was the best name I could come up with for the attack at the time. Open to other suggestions that might fit better.
And instead of solar flare, how about blinding radiance. -
Quote:It has to be fission, or maybe budding. Due to the latest splash page, it's painfully obvious to everyone who plays the game that Statesman is a ken doll below the waist.Originally Posted by Zombieluvr
(Don't even want to know how they reproduce...)
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Quote:Releasing a new issue is a completely different animal than changing a system that's been in place for 5 years without (significant) complaint and you know it. Don't try to pretend they're the same thing.Originally Posted by Arcanaville
The game was fine for eight years without an issue 23.
I stand by what I said. Generally when something in the game is 'fixed' the community has a pretty good idea that it's coming. Either because the developers have mentioned it (the recent change to HOs for example) or because it's something people have complained about. The change to procs is the exception to the rule.Quote:Originally Posted by Arcanaville
That question is never really a valid question. It presupposes that the only reason to change anything is if you can prove its broken, or alternatively the devs should make a list of all the things they don't think are perfect so the players know in advance which of them the devs might decide to change five years from now in 2017.
That is the implication, is it not? That the devs should have said in 2007 that they were not really perfectly happy with the proc system, which was based on much more primitive mechanics that existed at the time, and that perhaps one day, in 2012, they might decide to experiment with changing it.
Or maybe its more than that. Maybe what the devs were supposed to do was say in 2007 that they were not exactly perfectly happy with the proc system, whereupon the players would get to say "well, if you want to change it the statute of limitations starts now, and if you don't change it within the year, I'm sorry but we're not going to allow you to do so." That way we would all know we were safe now.
Maybe the devs have been seeing problems for years, like how procs work in AoEs compared to single target attacks, and how they work in hyper-accelerated powers compared to conventional levels of recharge, and have wanted to make this change for a long time, which is why they were added to the store bought IOs first as a trial when the technology became available to add them. And maybe the devs aren't allowed to talk about things in development that may or may not actually get released because that always causes problems, and so they couldn't say they were unhappy with the previous proc system until they were certain it was going to be replaced.
I say maybe, but of course I don't really mean maybe.
Are the devs required to change only things we knew about beforehand? Of course not. But most of the time we do know about them, so when something comes out of left field like this, I can understand why people want to know why it's being changed, when for 5 years, as far as the players were concerned, procs were working fine. -
Quote:I can kind of see both sides of this. People should have seen this coming since SBEs came out.Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I wish people were required by the forum EULA to stop asking this question.
However, on the other side of things, the other proc system was in place for 5 years. I've been fairly active on the forums during that time and as far as I know, there was no word from the devs that they thought procs were a problem. There wasn't really even any significant amount of grumbling about them from players. I do think it's a somewhat legitimate question taking those factors into account. -
Quote:Actually, even with quite a bit of recharge slotted, the change is a buff in more cases than not. It's undoubtedly a nerf in a decent number of cases, and has more of a chance of being a nerf in some cases where it shouldn't be (purples to name the biggest one), but taking everything into account, it buffs more than it nerfs. Do the math for yourself if you don't believe me.Originally Posted by Cyber_naut
Claiming it will actually be a buff in 'most' cases is deceptive at best, a flat out lie at worst. I'm sure procs will totally rock from levels 1-20 when nothing has plus recharge, of course nobody cares about proc effectiveness in those levels, most players are just trying to get past them.
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Quote:Well, actually, due to the floor, it probably would help the situation. I'm thinking though of going the other way, and just having them check once, based on the recharge of the power.Originally Posted by Morganite
I'm not sure the two are really that related, but I'm not sure how much it matters now. Since with the new system, making procs check more often will just drop the proc rate by a similar amount. So, if you think procs in patches are a bit anemic (and I'm not sure I'd disagree with you), that's not the answer.
-Morgan. -
Quote:Based on what Synapse has posted so far, the new Performance Shifter Proc will be a 1.875 PPM (25% higher than the 1.5 that it uses now).Originally Posted by Doc_Reverend
I have a question about this, and forgive me if this one has been answered already. I'm not really a math type. I do builds, and I like IOing and all that, but I don't really push the edge a lot, so I'll need this explained to me in a way I understand.
Here's my question:
How will these changes effect the Performance Shifter +END proc when slotted in Stamina (or Quick Recovery or whatever)? Will it fire more often/less often/not really change anything?
This will give a % chance to fire of (1.875*10)/(60*1) = 31.25% chance to trigger, which is about 50% higher than the flat 20% proc commonly used now. -
Quote:Is that how the PPM procs work now? I'm not sure and that's part of why I'm asking. I also heard several other people ask about whether or not procs would be switching to actual activation time.Originally Posted by Morganite
No reason I can think of to expect patch powers to work any differently than they do now - a chance to proc on activation, and every ten seconds thereafter. And I'm also pretty sure that the proc rate would be based on a 10 second cycle time.
Personally I think using the same 10 second activation time that toggle powers use is kind of unfair to patches, since they can't be turned on all the time, but I wanted to find out for sure how they are actually intended to work before I start discussing it.
So any chance of an answer on this Positron? -
Quote:I disagree with this. 95% DDR is not the only thing SR has going for it over EA. It also has much better protection against psi, toxic, and negative energy damage. The two sets are actually pretty well balanced now, whereas before EA was noticeably inferior.Originally Posted by Draeth Darkstar
Super Reflexes is dead-in-the-water now. Energy Aura's new shiny recharge aura killed the last reason anyone had to roll SR. The ONLY thing it has going for it is 95% DDR, and that isn't worth picking it over anything else.
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Quote:Could we please get some more information on how the PPM procs will work in regards to powers that have both an activation period and a recharge time (i.e. rain of fire, sleet storm, etc.)? I'm unclear on whether the chance to fire will be based on the power's recharge time (and the proc will only be able to fire once), or on the activation time, or on the 10s that it's based on now (meaning the proc will have multiple chances to fire).Originally Posted by Synapse
Yes, proc chance on AoEs is per target.
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Quote:Well, synapse did point out that in many cases this would end up being a buff to the proc rate from what we have now. I'm still just now sure whether the numbers for the % chance to trigger for AoE PPM procs is per target or not. I'm hoping it is, because otherwise the numbers we were shown mean a pretty significant nerf to proc chances in AoE powers when fighting a lot of enemies. And personally I'd rather see a buff than a nerf any day.Originally Posted by StratoNexus
I am going to guess that this behavior is unintended and will be reduced. There is, as far as I can tell, no good reason to buff AoEs from the flat chance procs. I'd much rather have a slight reduction in the AoE proc rate than any increase.
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Quote:I'm not sure to be honest. I haven't actually used the PPM procs other than the chance for fury proc in footstomp. I don't know what the PPM on that one is, but it doesn't seem to go off hardly at all. Maybe the numbers I posted above are the total chance to proc, though if they are, I'm not sure how it decides which target to proc against. If that's the case, then if you're hitting more than just a couple targets, those are pretty hefty nerfs.Originally Posted by StratoNexus
Are those numbers for every target? While I am all for not reducing the chance of my beloved procs in Fireball and Hot Feet and other such powers, I think it would be fairly ridiculous to increase the chance in any of those powers.
If this new formula ends up buffing what the procs do in AoEs, it may be more wrong than when it nerfed what they did in AoEs. -
Quote:You may be right, I wasn't sure based on Synapse's OP, and I haven't tested them in-game.Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I do not believe that is how maintained powers with activation periods are intended to work.
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I decided to take a look and see how this change would affect the AoEs in my favorite set (Fire blast).
For a normal proc (20% chance or 3 PPM) we have the following.
Fireball with 0% recharge enhancement = 39.5% chance to fire
Fireball with 33% recharge enhancement = 30.3% chance to fire
Fireball with 66% recharge enhancement = 24.7% chance to fire
Fireball with 100% recharge enhancement = 20.9% chance to fire
Fire Breath with 0% recharge enhancement = 62.4% chance to fire
Fire Breath with 33% recharge enhancement = 49.1% chance to fire
Fire Breath with 66% recharge enhancement = 41.1% chance to fire
Fire Breath with 100% recharge enhancement = 35.7% chance to fire
Rain of Fire with 0% recharge enhancement = 16.4% chance to fire
Rain of Fire with 33% recharge enhancement = 12.3% chance to fire
Rain of Fire with 66% recharge enhancement = 9.9% chance to fire
Rain of Fire with 100% recharge enhancement = 8.2% chance to fire
Assuming I didn't make any serious math errors, and that that % chance to fire is per target, it's not nearly as bad as I thought it would be. The changes are beneficial to both Fireball and Fire breath (very beneficial to fire breath). They're detrimental (quite so at large amounts of recharge) to rain of fire though. The low percentage chance to proc is based both on it's large area of affect (25 feet) and the fact that as a patch, the 'recharge' that the PPM is based on is the 10s of its activation time rather than the 60 seconds of the power's actual recharge. That brings up a couple points.
First is that basing the area factor only on the area of affect doesn't seem quite right. It leaves out maximum number of targets. While rain of fire covers about 2.75 times the area that fireball does, it usually isn't going to hit 2.75 times as many targets due to them both having the same target cap. I wonder if it wouldn't be possible to factor target cap into the area factor somehow to better account for the differences between powers that have different areas, but the same target caps.
The other point is that basing the PPM calculation off of activation time for patch powers that has a recharge doesn't work quite right. It works quite well for something like a damage aura, since that can be on all the time. For something like rain of fire though, that can have the proc go off more than once while it's active, but then can't be activated again for quite awhile, it doesn't really work right. I'm honestly not sure how to fix the problem, but it seems like something that ought to be addressed. -
Quote:I think that this is definitely a big improvement over the original suggestion. I did some quick calculations and came up with a roughly 10% chance to fire as about the lowest you could go on a 3PPM proc (which it seems like all of the old 20% chance to fire procs are). I'd still rather see a minimum set at 20% (or whatever the fixed chance used to be), but since anything with an (activation + half recharge) time of 3.2 s or higher would be at at least a 20% chance already, it's not that big a deal I suppose.Originally Posted by Synapse
Okay, here's what I've come up with. The differences are FAR less dramatic than my first proposal:
1) Increase the PPM value by 20-25% (So a 4 PPM proc would become 5ish PPM) NOTE: The exact amount is still being figured out.
2) Replace the Base Recharge used by the PPM formula to only take into recharge enhancements affecting that power. This means recharge boosts from powers like Speed Boost, Hasten, Chrono Shift and Global Recharge from Enhancement effects like Luck of the Gambler's: +Def/+Global Rech 7.5% are not factored in.
3) Procs will have a maximum chance to trigger. I'm leaning toward 90-95%. There will be a minimum chance to proc equal to 5 plus 1.5 per PPM. Only the most extreme instances of very low recharge, cast time and area factor will cause this to occur.
4) All non-PPM enhancements with a chance to trigger less than 100% will use PPMs. (Note: Enhancements like Numina's Convalesence: Regen/Recovery will not be affected by this change as they have 100% chance to trigger).
The only thing I find odd is that it seems like the way you have the minimum chance to trigger calculated it won't ever come into play, at least not on ST powers. The fastest recharging/animating one I can think of is neutrino bolt. 3 PPM (raised to 3.75 as in point 1) would give a chance to trigger of 10.9375%. The minimum would be 10.625%. This may be what you intended, but I thought I'd point it out.
Also, point 4 seems to suggest that this will only affect procs from enhancements, not things like the interface slot. I'd still like to get that confirmed one way or the other though if possible.
This seems like it doesn't go far enough. The impact from the area factor is quite harsh, and this only reduces it by 25% (less than that actually). It really seems like a considerably larger reduction is needed. However, I can't really say this with any certainty, because I don't know how the area factor is calculated for a lot of powers. Could you provide some information on how the area factor is calculated? It would be nice to be able to run some numbers on some of my AoE powers and see how this will affect them, and the area factor doesn't seem to be as simple as the number of targets or the radius or anything like that.Quote:Originally Posted by Synapse
5) The formula will treat Area Factor differently. Instead of simply using the flat Area Factor of the power, it will use 1 plus 75% of the difference between 1 and its actual AF. I think I heard a couple of you say "Huh?" Let me give you an example and then explain why.
Let's take a look at Dark Regeneration shall we? It has an Area Factor of 4, base recharge of 30 seconds and cast time of 1.17s. Using current PPMs with Essence Theft (3PPMs) it has a 39% chance to proc per target.
With the new formula we'll treat area factor as being slightly smaller than it is now. So the new formula would treat this Area Factor as 3.25. (1+(.75*(Actual Area Factor-1)). The simple version is: Area Factor will have a smaller impact on proc chance reduction. -
No thank you.
I don't want any additional powers added to existing incarnate slots until/unless we get the ability to respec them. -
Let's see.
Trick arrow
Force Field
Sonic Resonance
Devices
Ice Control
Dual Pistols
Regeneration
Spines
Energy Melee -
Quote:I'm really hoping for an answer to this, since I asked the same question.Originally Posted by ChaosAngelGeno
Question: Does this at all change how the Interface incarnate ability will work too?