boppaholic

Thank you, that is a great explanation. Makes all the sense in the world now

Seems like all the more reason to keep Shadow Meld. When I jump into a mob, I will only have about 25% defense to all things. I will still need to land my DA just to softcap my Melee and Lethal. But by the time that happens, I will have 8 attacks coming at me. That's why I like shadow meld to softcap me in everything. I can run in, have enough time to sap them with Power Sink, and start getting into my attacks. By the time SM wears off, my lightning field should have already decimated the rest of their endurance. :-)

Edit: I forgot, I also use shadow meld for my Power Surge crashes. Seconds before I crash, I will be able to click SM, so I'll still be protected. Then I just pop a blue pill, powersink the mob I crashed in (they now will be drained of all endurance because of the EM Pulse for Power Surge crash). Then I take my sweet time getting my toggles back up. I know, maybe it's hokey, but it provides great survivability in actual game play

I haven't looked at Axe yet, but I will be posting some numbers for Kinetic Melee and War Mace later tonight. What exactly do you mean by no limits though? My methods haven't quite been no limits, but they have been stretching it a bit with the high recharge and whatnot.

I had made a build for you. But because of the log out, I lost the data chunk and I had already cleared it from my mids. As a consolation, here's my build of the exact same build that I run. His name is Starlight Enforcer, and I haven't exactly made him for DPS maximization, but he is very strong IMO. Now understand, this build was designed before Bruising came into affect, so I'll have to re-evaluate how I slot him. Honestly, with incarnates I really don't need so much slots in Health, Stamina, and Physical Perfection. I would likely shave some spots off there and give them to Jab to form a solid ST attack chain.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.952
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Shield Defense
Secondary Power Set: Super Strength
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Deflection -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(3), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(3), ResDam-I(5), ResDam-I(5)
Level 1: Jab -- C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(A)
Level 2: True Grit -- Heal-I(A), Heal-I(7), ResDam-I(7), ResDam-I(9), Heal-I(9)
Level 4: Haymaker -- Hectmb-Dam%(A), Hectmb-Dmg/EndRdx(15), Hectmb-Acc/Rchg(15), Hectmb-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(17), Hectmb-Dmg/Rchg(17), Mako-Dam%(19)
Level 6: Combat Jumping -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(19), DefBuff-I(21)
Level 8: Battle Agility -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(21), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(23)
Level 10: Taunt -- Mocking-Taunt(A), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg(23), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(25), Mocking-Acc/Rchg(25), Mocking-Taunt/Rng(27), Mocking-Rchg(27)
Level 12: Against All Odds -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 14: Super Jump -- Jump-I(A)
Level 16: Kick -- Mako-Dmg/Rchg(A)
Level 18: Tough -- Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(A), Aegis-ResDam(29), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(29)
Level 20: Knockout Blow -- C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(31), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(31), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(33), UbrkCons-Dam%(33)
Level 22: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(33), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(34)
Level 24: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(34)
Level 26: Shield Charge -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(34), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(36), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(36), Oblit-%Dam(37)
Level 28: Grant Cover -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(37), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(37)
Level 30: Phalanx Fighting -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(39)
Level 32: One with the Shield -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), Heal-I(42)
Level 35: Rage -- GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(A), GSFC-ToHit(39), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(39), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(40), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(40), GSFC-Build%(40)
Level 38: Foot Stomp -- Armgdn-Dam%(A), Armgdn-Dmg/Rchg(42), Armgdn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), Armgdn-Acc/Rchg(43), Armgdn-Dmg/EndRdx(43), FrcFbk-Rechg%(43)
Level 41: Focused Accuracy -- HO:Cyto(A), HO:Cyto(45)
Level 44: Physical Perfection -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A), Mrcl-Heal(46), P'Shift-EndMod(45), P'Shift-End%(45), Mrcl-Heal/Rchg(46), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(46)
Level 47: Energy Torrent -- Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(50), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(48), Posi-Dmg/Rng(48), Posi-Dam%(48), FrcFbk-Rechg%(50)
Level 49: Active Defense -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(50)
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
Level 0: Portal Jockey
Level 50: Reactive Radial Flawless Interface
Level 50: Void Radial Final Judgement
Level 0: Task Force Commander
Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Numna-Heal(11), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(11)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(13), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(13)



As to the calculations I did for you earlier but got lost. I still have the results in my excel sheet, so I'll share them with you.

The attack chain I used was Jab -- KO Blow -- Jab -- Haymaker -- Jab -- Energy Torrent -- Jab -- Haymaker.
Just note, whenever you're double raged, you are likely going to be at your damage cap. Rage gives you 160%, enhancements and Musculature alpha will give you 125%, AAO gives you 15.5% when you have 1 enemy near you (So now you're at cap), and assault would give you another 10.5% (Only useful when not at double rage or if you don't use Musculature).

So for double rage, this chain will net you:
DPS: 257.3 (Not as optimal of a chain as I showcased before, obviously, but Gloom does that... plus the build I made was softcapped so I didn't focus as much on recharge)

I lost the other numbers, but I am quite sure it was a drop off of about 30 DPS when you have only one rage up.
I'm sorry I lost the numbers, I'll look into recalculating it for you, but from what I can tell the above chain should be adequate for you. If you get more recharge you'll be able to use Haymaker and KO Blow more often which are your heaviest hitters for your build. So look into doing that for your build. If necessary, just sack musculature for spiritual if you plan on going for double rage as often as possible. You'll still cap, and getting double rage and your other attacks sooner will only improve your desired DPS.

If you trick out Ring of Fire with the extra damage proc (Trap of the hunter), you can get DPS on par with Fire Blast. Just a thought.
Anyways, here are your numbers:

Final DPS: 213.92

Better than pure fire melee, but not as good as gloom. If you use Melt Armor, you can probably get there though. For those 40 seconds you'll get roughly a 10% boost to your DPS... which is about 15-20 DPS in this case.

Yours will have to take more time... but I wanted to know more about what you're asking. Are you wanting me to incorporate Burn? Or did you mean Fiery Embrace? Perhaps PM me a build and I'll take a look and tweak if possible. Since you're fire, you'll be able to get more DPS by having your damage aura on. Fiery Embrace is a great second build up to have to go along with your possible perma build up in Soul Drain. It's a pretty slick combo really. You have the great Single Target attacks from Dark. But you'll also have two endurance recovery powers, and multiple damaging AoEs from your Armor that will go great with Soul Drain. I'm just really digging the synergy and a bit surprised I haven't ever thought to make a Fire/Dark build... though I might go the brute route for this one. You'll be squishy, but with slotting you can fix that up fine. Nonetheless, hit me up with more details of what you want me to calculate. I'm not good incorporating build up and all that because those chains get very very long. Now if you really just wanted me to incorporate burn into an attack chain like SP--Smite--SP--Burn--SP--Smite--SP--MG... or whatever, then my gut feeling would be ... probably won't make the DPS better. Now, my original optimal DPS chain was SP--Smite--SP--Gloom. I didn't even incorporate MG, which has a better DPA than Burn. Although Burn has better DPA than Siphon Life, I think I would rather use that in an attack chain because it helps you with your squishiness. These are just my gut feelings, but nothing confirmed.

It's gotten late, but I will reply to this tomorrow night. Do you still want to use that slotting? Do you have a build idea? All I really need is the recharge on Shadow Punch and I could calculate the numbers for you by scratch.

Your attack chain would be just Shadow Punch, so the chain duration would be 0.83+recharge time. Your chain damage would be whatever your damage shows up as in Mids, then add 50.1 to it (make sure you do NOT have reactive selected in mids, the numbers aren't right). There you go, you now have what you need to calculate your DPS before debuffs. Then you will calculate the number of attacks you will do in 8.3 seconds. Likely a recharge of 0.9 can be expected, so your chain duration would be 1.73 seconds. That's 4.8 attacks in that span. You will want to use a resistance debuff of about 22.8% after reactive and bruising. So take your DPS and multiply it by 1.228. This will be your DPS after debuffs. Now to incorporate your misses, multiply your DPS by 0.95. Done, you just calculated your DPS for your AFK AV Killa. Now you said you were a shield? You will want to factor that into your DPS, so turn AAO and Assault on in Mids when you get your SP Damage.

After right all that, I realized I might as well do it myself. Here you go.

Slotting: I used Hecatomb's ACC/DMG/RCH, DMG/RCH, and Crushing Impact's ACC/DMG/RCH. And I used the DMG procs you suggested.
Using T4 Musculature, I have the following damage (with AAO and assault, too):
SP Damage: 156.7 + 50.1 = 206.8.
Assume recharge of 1 seconds (requires 200% recharge, which is very high. And you won't be able to click hasten while AFK).
Chain duration: 1.83 seconds.
Res debuffs: 22.7%
DPS before debuffs = 113.00
DPS after debuffs = 138.66
DPS after misses = 131.72

If I recall right, AVs have a regeneration rate of 94.24 HP/second. So the net of 37.48 DPS per second (assuming the AV has no resistances) will require you to take 28271.7/37.48 = 754.21 seconds... or 12 minutes and 35 seconds. You're probably better off having a damage toggle than AAO, in this case. Also, you won't be able to click your Active Defense. So you may want to slot for KB protection... if the AV is known for that. Actually, just hope the AV has no mez or KB or defense debuffs in general, then you should be ok.

Edit: I somehow forgot to factor in Reactive, I knew the numbers didn't look right. Corrected the info above. Long days looking at numbers, I guess.

I know you probably don't care, but I did double check the numbers and you're absolutely right. Here's a break down on how it was calculated:

AV Hit Points (+0 level): 28271.7 HP
AV regeneration rate: 5% every 15 seconds.
This means the AV will heal at a rate of: 28271.7*0.05/15 = 94.24 HP/sec
If you can successfully land 4 attacks in an 8.3 second window (easy enough) using the 100% -regeneration proc, then you can expect the following loss in regeneration.
Assuming the above mentioned regeneration rate is 100% for an AV...
4 applications of this proc resisted by an AV (85%) would result in a regeneration decrease of 4*15*(1-0.85) = 9% regen debuff.
The HP/sec gained by the AV is now 94.24*(1-0.09) = 85.76 HP/sec.
This means that the AV is losing 8.48 HP/sec more than it normally does.
Over the span of 8.3 seconds, this total HP loss is equal to: 8.48*8.3 = 70.384. Because there are only 4 applications allowed within this 8.3 second window, we can consider this to be an HP loss of 70.384/4 = 17.6 HP per application.

Now, we all know that the reactive DoT proc will give you 50.1 damage per application (effectively, you can't reach its limit of 8 activations over 4.3 seconds while solo, so we won't worry about limits), Because the activations effective damage doesn't translate over due to the difference in limits, you need to translate it to DPS when comparing these two procs. The HP loss per second was 8.48 (We will call this the REAL DPS gained by using Diamagnetic). The REAL DPS gained by Reactive will be tricky to calculate as you have to consider the AV's resistance to fire damage, your attack speed, and what the average resistance debuff you're getting out of your proc.

The REAL DPS for reactive is dependent on two variables, your attack rate (how many landed hits per second) and the target's resistance to fire damage (speaking in terms of reactive DoT proc only). Actually, there's a third variable, that's the average Reactive resistance debuff applied, but it is directly related to your attack rate (as I'll show later). So what does this all mean? Well, if you don't land enough hits per second and/or the target has an extreme resistance against fire damage, then the Diamagnetic proc could actually be the better choice (I'm surprised by this, in fact).

Because there are multiple variables here, I can't give you one answer as to which proc to take, but here is my attempt at devising a formula for you to use.

How to Calculate Reactive's REAL DPS gained:
Given:
Rf = AV's fire resistance
A = attack rate (number of landed hits per second)
50.1 = Avg Reactive DMG per landed hit
r = average resistance debuff over time.
B = resistance debuffs not including reactive (Bruising, Rib Cracker, etc.)

To calculate r, you would use a combination of binomial probability and some other math to estimate the average debuff you would get. I explained the math in a different post that I referenced to earlier in this thread. You can search for it if you want, or trust my numbers. But here you go, if over the course of 8.3 seconds, if you land X attacks, your average resistance debuff (r) will be:
X=1, then r = 0.625%
X=2, then r = 1.25%
X=3, then r = 1.875%
X=4, then r = 2.5%
X=5, then r = 3.12%
X=6, then r = 3.74%
X=7, then r = 4.34%
X=8, then r = 4.92%

I stop at 8, as you are unlikely to get more attacks than that in an 8.3 second span. (*All these numbers are for the 75% DoT/ 25% -res Reactive Interface Proc*)

AVRf = Rf - (B + r)(1-Rf) *AV's final resistance*
REAL DPS = 50.1 x A x (1 - AVRf)

If this "REAL DPS" is more than the 8.48 HP/second lost (caused by Diamagnetic), then you should go with Reactive. Otherwise, you may want to go with Diamagnetic. HOWEVER!!! I am missing something for the REAL DPS gained for Reactive. I need to consider the extra damage the reactive resist debuff is giving your regular attack chain.... SO.....

R = AV's resistance to your chain's type of damage (so not necessarily Fire Damage)

ChainDPS = Whatever your DPS chain is before accounting for resistance debuffs

avr = R - B*(1-R) *AV's final resistance to your chain's damage type not including reactive... in other words, AV's final resistance when using Diamagnetic but still including your chain's regular resistance debuffs (such as Bruising, etc.)

AVR = R - (B + r)(1-R) *AV's final resistance to your chain's damage type including reactive's average resistance debuff and your chain's regular resistance debuffs*

(Reactive's) REAL DPS = [50.1 x A x (1-AVRf)] + [ChainDPS*(1-AVR) - ChainDPS*(1-avr)]

Now, if this value is greater than 8.48 DPS, then you should use Reactive, otherwise, Diamagnetic is the better choice (Granted, these calculations are for an AV scenario. If it's a different target, just calculate the HP loss caused by Diamagnetic, and compare to the REAL DPS of Reactive to see which is the better choice).

To be fair, the 50.1 damage is before the target's resistances are factored in. If the AV has high resistances, say 75%, then the real damage would be about 12.5, meaning your -rehen just might provide you with faster kill speed. But if the target has little to no resistance to fire damage, then reactive takes the cake. Plus the -resist would need to be factored too, which is gravy.

Can I get a confirmation on the duration of the -res proc? Is it 10 seconds or 8.3 seconds? I may need to redo my numbers because I thought it was 10

What makes you think it will shave a minute or two off the battle? You should look at the numbers and see what you find, but I am certain reactive will do more that any other interface ability. When I get the time I will do the numbers on your shadow punch only DPS with and without reactive. Stay tuned, hopefully sometime tonight I'll catch ip on everyone's requests.

Ice has a way of getting endurance back but it will interrupt your chain a lot. Just an fyi. I like the endurance discount offered by energize in the electric armor set a lot more. But when used with ageless, you should be good.

To all those who have requested attack chains, I'll work on it tonight after work. Some I may not be able to do, but I'll address each request individually in one maybe two long replies. I'm glad people are appreciating the numbers.

I'm sorry I missed this comment before. Which AVs don't have resistance to negative nor smashing? I didn't know that about arcanatime and it not applying to a same cycled power. Do you gave a reference for that, so I can get an in depth understanding on the matter?

Just a suggestion, if you were willing, but you could have taken Spring Attack. It could've filled some of your AoE void, but it would've only been good for about once per mob at best.

But I hope getting your PBAoE at 28 will appease you. You'll definitely like the damage more.

I must have misunderstood the mechanics. I treated the debuff like a buff (say Build Up). I thought when you have that 0.1 seconds left, Jab would be granted the benefit of the debuff (like how you would still get the full benefit of build up if you started the power before it wears off). But I understand now, when the damage is finally applied, the debuff had already wore off, so you would lose out on the benefit when the damage is applied. Thanks for clearing that up.

I was attempting to do that attack chain, actually, but the 295% recharge was too rediculous. If I string it out, I could incorporate Dark Obliteration for better DPS. In fact, I'll get on those numbers now. It will be up once every 10 seconds or so, but could be a good replacement for one of my many Jabs. EDIT: The DPS on Dark Obliteration isn't enough to top a proc'd out Jab. I'm shocked, but by only being able to put 1 proc in D.O., Jab easily took the cake. [Technically, I can put two procs in D.O., but going the Positron route for IOs wasn't appealing as it offers very little recharge and D.O. needs a lot to get under 10 seconds recharge]

Also, your chain should still be perma, if I understand this correctly. But the bruising should begin when Jab ends. Then, between -Gloom-Haymaker-KO Blow-Gloom-Haymaker-Punch you will have used 9.9 seconds. This means you have 0.1 seconds to activate Jab (which means you will get the bruising still) and when Jab's attack ends, the bruising will start over for the next power. It's tight, and I may be wrong on the mechanics, but I believe you will still be perma.

Finally, why do I not incorporate punch? Eh, slots. And not enough of a gain. I can slot Jab with procs and get it very close to Punch with procs in terms of DPS (granted Punch would be missing the purple proc, but gains the KB proc in this scenario). So the question becomes, should I put the purple proc in Punch? The answer is no, only because you're using punch one time in the chain. My numbers showed no matter how I slot punch and jab, if I use them both only once in the same chain, I don't gain anything (negligible). So I decided to skip punch, use Jab multiple times, save the 5 enhancement slots, and keep the same result. But let me take a look at your suggested chain, I'll just tweak it, keeping Jab over Punch. So I'll look at Jab--Gloom--Haymaker--KO Blow--Gloom--Jab--Haymaker.

Obitus, I've been looking forward to you joining this thread for some time. I always appreciate your explanations and number crunching. I will look into these numbers again, not so much as a double check, but more so to confirm the consistency of the slotting and the use of Musculature Alpha (or if Spiritual is preferred). This way I can more accurately compare it to the other Tanker Melee sets I've analyzed.

And you're right, I love slotting for procs, I think it's the one thing that can help tankers (or low melee toons in general) in closing the gap on the Scrapper/Brute DPS stronghold. And with bruising, you're just making your procs 20% more powerful than the other ATs .

You guys are giving me a lot of work to do lol.