Warhamster

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Renegades tried to recruit all of my players, including me (I didn't create RPvPH, Sneaky and Tox did. But they bailed and went to WoW, leaving me in control of an SG that I didn't recruit. Note that I left RPvPH shortly after). Renegades actually offered to merge with us, as long as we agreed to drop you and black barrier. I knew who blood mark was, but I didn't recognize your forum name. That doesn't change the fact that you managed to get farmed on a stalker in i13, be very late on locks, and inconsistently get ASes off. Dying 4 times on a stalker is aweful, especially in i13 pvp. I only died once *ever* on my stalker in our matches - and that was due to the unfixed TK+ KB bug. I had never played stalker before i13, and if I can manage not to get farmed, it really shouldn't be hard for the starting stalker from UJL. You got farmed in virtualy every practice I put you into. Never did Void or Divine die more than you did. Void and Divine were exponentially faster on ASes than you were. If that isn't true, why didn't you start for a more reputable VG than UJL?


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So you're saying that Renegades asked to merge with you, if you would drop me lol. That's ether a bold faced lie, which wouldn't surprise me after the other doozies you've dropped so far, or I upset Renegades greatly by not taking them up on their offer (If this was the case, it would mean I was offered the slot before you were lol. That right there says a ton). Regardless of which scenario is actually true (most likely you're just lying again), it doesn't change the fact that the #1 team saw value in me as a player. Or did you overlook the obvious? If your definition of farmed is me dying 4 times in a single match and never more than 2 times in any other match, well then you win at your opinion, gg. Nobody is perfect, and will have a bad game now and again. Considering the other stalker in all other matches died more times than I did, I think that your opinion and recollection stands about as tall as your 'opinion' and 'recollection' on combat jumping suppressing lol. (The new ruling champ for the most ignorant forum posts I've ever seen by the way, thanks loads for that) My locks where always fine and more often than not came prior to the 3rd spiker. If you actually PLAYED in any of the practices you would know my ASes were far more consistant than any of the other stalkers that I ran with, which is actually where the problems began lol. As I stated before, we were having problems with the timing on the spikes because I always arrived at the target prior to the other stalker. Again, did you conveniently forget about these conversations on more than one occasion in vent chat?

I didn't change VG's away from UJL for the same reasons I stayed with RPvPH instead of going to Renegades. For starters the health of the ladder needs to be considered. Renegades was trying to absorb as many of the players as possible that they felt were reasonably good. Combine most of the players who know what they are doing with good lineups, regular practice schedules, and excellent management on one team, and suddenly you have a #1 team that will stay #1. I grew out of the need for the 'I win' feeling when playing video games back in highschool, and now get it everyday in real life on the stock market. Where is the fun and challenge in being on the unbeatable team? Considering you even bothered to ask me why I didn't go after membership in Ren's proves why you play this game. (Pretty young, huh? No worries, you'll grow out of it) Bleak and I have been having conversations about trying to start a ladder that was based on draft picks, to get things on fair ground, instead of a tallent grab that the current and past ladders have been based on. The one big hurdle has been getting people to lead those teams. Hopefully we'll make some progress on this project.

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You are right about one thing: those matches where UJL lost by 20+ points were not officials, they were practices (Which is just as funny).

Here is a pic of UJL in an official match.
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2.../UJLMatch3.jpg


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While I cant currently view the picture, I'll assume your provided picture does not have a spread of 20+ points or more in an official right? Why are you loading ammo into my argument? lol

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I've seen several screenies of UJL losing officials to GMW by over 20 points, practices weren't much different. GMW and Renegades were much better than UJL, no one debates that. You have to point out specific instances where UJL beat rens/gmw.


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I have access to all of the official scores while I was on the ladder, as requested here are a few specific instances of UJL winning in officials vs Ren and GMW.
03Aug2008 3-2 (UJL) - GMW's stormie+TA vs UJL's 2fort+1dom team
10Aug2008 6-3 (UJL) - Ren's 3fort/1stalker vs UJL's 2sonic/2fort
Please note, I never claimed UJL was of equal skill level to the likes of Ren's and GMW, I was just responding to your 20+ comment.
Now it's your turn, post these so called 'screenies' with us losing by over 20 point. Awwww, don't have them huh? That's what I thought.

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My starters in officials were Void and Divine - and there were quite a few others that would have been infront of you.


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"You had never heard of me and now you suddenly remember me being farmed lol? Do we have to talk about the compulsive lying again?" That's fine that you CLAIM those were the lineups for the officials, but since I never showed for one I guess we'll never know right? (Of course you will say I wasn't in the lineup for officials considering the current conversation) Fact, I played more than any other stalker in the practices I was involved in. Fact, I spoke in vent to all present on more than one occasion that our spikes were not consistant because I was always arriving at the target before the other stalker. (must mean I'm the worst right, or did you conveniently forget about that conversation? I actually had to practice WAITING before I started my AS, I've never had to do that before in arena play, and this was not just with Divine) Fact, the biggest death count against me with RPvPH was a single match where I got dropped 4 times, on no other occation did I die equal or greater than the second stalker on the team, with no occasion where I died more than 2 times. (I actually never died again in a match after I started using the after AS temp jet pack escape)

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In short: you weren't started because you were aweful.
Yet, you managed to be terrible at all aspects of this easy role.
You are terrible.


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Ya, you're so right, I'm terrible, bad, the worst stalker ever. I never claimed to be the best, I just said I considered myself to be a "reasonably good stalker." If fact, I'm so bad that THE #1 TEAM RENEGADES TRIED TO RECRUITE ME AWAY FROM RPvPH. Or didn't you know about that? Feel free to confirm if you don’t believe me. I seriously considered their offer, until I saw the size of their roster. With the ladder as small as it was, I didn't feel that they needed anymore bodies than they already had.

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Your views on PvP are less informed than something Super Deveron would write up in five minutes. I'm not going to argue over what should be how in PvP, because that would be pointless.


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Thus far my views have been supported with facts and information, yours with opinions and slander. I would say YOU are the one in need of information to allow for an informed opinion. You're certainly right about one thing though, this is all pointless. It's like taking candy away from a baby.

What does a 2v2 that I didn't take part in have to do with me lol. Talk about grabbing at straws, good lord.


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Post Deleted by Moderator_08

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GMW brought a joke team of 6 to that official, since they didn't have enough people show up. Most of them had already called it quits after hearing news of i13. The fact that you managed to beat a joke team of 6 in a 6v8 match is hardly impressive. I don't remember UJL even coming within 20 points of GMW in most practices and officials. You starting for UJL is also irrelevant, since they only had one good stalker anyway (Nicor).


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Sucks being wrong huh? So now after the facts come out you try and back peddle? Regardless of why they lost, they were still the #3, which you were ether too ignorant to know, or flat out lying to prove your point. Why do I have to keep providing you with all the facts?

If you "remember" UJL never coming within 20 point in officials, then whoops, here comes more lies again. Is it compulsive for you? The widest spread ever vs them in an official was 12 points, and on only 1 occasion did GMW win an official vs us with only 2 games played. (5-4 and 6-2. That's an epic beat down they gave us huh?) All others resulted in a 3rd game.

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You didn't start for RPvPH. Divine and Void were the starting stalkers. I don't think anyone in RPvPH considered you to be a reasonably good player, either. Except for Void, of course. He really appreciated it when you gave him tips on stalking.


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I played starter in all practices, however due to family issues I was never able to attend officials. Thus for the time I played, I started.

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And yet you managed to get farmed time after time.


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You had never heard of me and now you suddenly remember me being farmed lol? Do we have to talk about the compulsive lying again?

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Because being in agreement with the devs generally puts you on the side of reason... Oh, wait. Having an opinion is one thing, but quoting the devs as a standard of right action in any case is pretty uncredible (much like UJL's reputation as a PvP VG).


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My opinion of the ridiculous heal situation predated i13 by a long shot. (nice job avoiding my comment on the 6k green pop heal reinforcement by the way) For zone play, the only solution that would draw a larger crowd of casual players was to go the way they did. The fact that many of the long time zone PvPers were not a fan of this format in THIS game, doesn't change the fact that the devs were finally trying to fall in line with the industry standard. The objective was to increase activity in PvP zone play, this has been accomplished, which in turn is going to provide the devs with the data that their decision was the right one. They screwed up huge by not fully implementing all the arena options originally, which lost them their arena supporters, but that is not what this conversation is about.

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Combat jumping itself didn't suppress, but you still moved at the same suppressed speed, even using combat jumping. If you had your movement speed monitored in your combat attributes, you'd probably have noticed.

I'm sure it's safe to say that by i12, 3 slotted hurdle and combat jumping for more efficient movement wasn't a revolutionary concept. The movement was certainly just that - more efficient - but not faster.


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Combat jumping is one speed, that doesn't suppress when you attack or are attacked. The movement speed monitor in combat attributes doesn't work precisely for that reason. What exactly is it that you don't understand about that? Apparently 3 slotting hurdle and combat jumping is a revolutionary concept if I'm still explaining the basics to you lol.

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It all boils down to this: A coordinated team should require coordination to overcome. I'm not sure how anyone can disagree with that.


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Your opinion is based on a casual and revenue free environment. (which is the standard organized arena player opinion, which I share when playing in arena) In that land of the hardcore I'd be on board with you, however the devs have to consider what you are not. The vast makeup of those in PvP zones are there for a bit of casual fun and kill accomplishment. If as a dev you do not provide easy access to both for the mob in what was designed to be a casual setting, you run the risk of those players leaving, and lost revenue. The devs make decisions based on their wallet and the mob, not an ideal setting where everyone in zone has a 3 billion perfect IO build and are all organized into lean practiced vent teams.

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I can tell you right now that there were a total of two respected VGs in i12 (Renegades, and GMW - both of which held the #1 and # 2 spots). I can also tell you that you didn't play for either. Meaning that your claim of being on a "#2 slot" team is only made possible by the fact that the teams above you dropped the ladder before i13 hit. As for me being an "elitist", I'm not the one who claimed to be a hardcore test PvPer. I'm also not the one pretending I was in a #2 ranked VG.

As for coordination in zone PvP - Are you honestly suggesting that players shouldn't heavily benefit from coordination with others? If so, I think you are playing the wrong game.


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First of all you need to check your facts. GMW did not end the season at the #2 slot, they ended #3. They LOST their last official scheduled match prior to their departure. The #2 slot was taken from them according to ladder rules in a match.

My personal description of hardcore would in no way qualify me as an elitist. If I told someone else that my opinion of myself made me a better player than them, then I would be an elitist. Your comment "yet no one I know seems to know who you are" certainly qualify you as one.

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The point of teaming, is to make your individual AT shine more than they would solo, and have an advantage. The design intent was never to turn those teamed players into rampaging gods vs all the noobs that the zone had to offer.


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Did you bother to read what I wrote? Heavy benefits should not equate to immortality, as i12 zone environment laid it out. I could point out that the devs agree with my opinion and actually CHANGED THE GAME to fix this problem, but then I think I've eluded to this many times already. You sir are now the one playing the wrong game. If you don't like the zone changes, its time you head on out.

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You obviously don't know this, but combat jumping hasn't been "unsuppressed" movement since i4.


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Classic, you might want to check your facts. This has been a bug since the beginning of time that the devs have stated they do not intend to put resources into fixing. Combat jumping does not suppress when you attack or are attacked. Please feel free to post on the PvP forum and ask so you can be enlightened since you dont believe me, or for that matter just enter the zone and try it yourself. Clearly there is no reason to bother responding to any of your other evasion comments after that debacle.

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Despite resistance and defense buffs on a player, it is still incredibly easy to bring the player down with little if any effort or coordination.


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As it should be. If one dominator starts to spike a target, does damage, 2 more pile on to that target because its wounded, followed by another 2, its time to phase or die. Who cares if it takes 20 seconds for that pile on to finish its buildup? The end result is you have 5 ranged damage dealers on you. This is the way most of the current PvP MMO's are currently put together in an open zone environment. General zone fights are designed by developers as a quick fix for competitive combat. Most include some vague uneeded goal to try and insert a bit of purpose into the fight. If you dont provide some kill satisfaction to the average joe, he's not going to enjoy your game for very long.

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As for the comment that I supposedly took out of context: I didn't. Despite resistance and defense buffs on a player, it is still incredibly easy to bring the player down with little if any effort or coordination.


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You did, go back and read it again. Funny part is your added comment above still was off my topic lol. My original point was that shields are about as effective as they were in i12. Most people complain now that they are worst, I believe that's incorrect, that is why I posted the details supporting my opinion on that. It was still incredibly easy to bring a shielded player down with little if any effort or coordination in i12 as long as they didn't run away immediately. The problems began with no heal suppression, which is the whole point of this. I'll even throw in another example for you. Prior to i13 I could self heal over 6,000 points of damage going through a tray of greens, escape, have a turret or npc kill me, then make another trip to the base to refill. (base runs for greens take about 45 seconds total including load time to get back to the zone on a reasonable computer) Combine that with phase/pff and it was just lame and close to impossible to kill a good popper. Same applied to a toon with a pocket emp.

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I know the common conception is that "most teams in zones don't call spikes". In truth, back in i12, even teams from casual SGs like PvP Heroes and United Heroes called spikes on vent. Most other teams called targets in team chat . Even if that weren't the case - creation of coordinated teams should be encouraged, not discouraged.


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Personally I find that any team I'm on is calling targets, since me or someone else are calling targets in chat. However, my belief is while this could be considered some level of coordination, in i12 it was not enough. For a spike to truly be effective on an unsuppressed target that had emp back up, simply calling the target didn't do the job. You needed to get confirmed locks, followed by a countdown, or that emp had the situation covered. No pickup team had the patience for that level of cordination. The emp heals, combined with green pops, and a turn and run meant anyone with any competence was away and still living, instead of dead and on the ground as the game stands now. Team coordination still gives an excellent advantage, it's just not the evil monster it used to be.

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My suggestion: Rather than suppression - give the target a reason not to over-evade. Create actual objectives in zone PvP. Rather than just a bunch of Heroes and Villains fighting in one sanctioned area (isn't that what arena is?), zones should have desireable objectives that are imperative to the success of the players (the pillboxes in RV don't cut it, at all). This way, when a player evades to the point where he is simply running away from the action, he is abandoning his objective and is no better to his team than a dead target.


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Now this, I can get on board with. The vague zone goals currently provided are a joke, as I'm afraid they are in almost all of the PvP MMO's I've played up to this point. Happy to see we can agree on something.

So the gloves come off I see, so be it.

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As a self proclaimed "hardcore test PvPer", you of all people should know that being a good emp involved a lot more than "mashing one button over and over". To heal through a coordinated assault/good spike on a team mate was no easy feat.

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Perhaps we should revisit my original comment, which I'm afraid we'll have to apply to, well it would seem, almost all of your replies.

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The following comments are regarding zone PvP only, as arena is still completely customisable according to the event in question.


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What coordinated assault/good spike? We're in the zone, where people are effectively enjoying a pickup game, not a organized vent 3 2 1 spike. Coordinated arena is a whole different animal than zone PvP, hence my pre words of explanation prior to specific details as to why zone pvp is now better. Your comments certainly apply to arena, but do not carry over to zone. It is a rarity indeed in zone to find an emp/therm that double stacks, or for that matter, even bothers to keep clear mind/thaw refreshed and active perma. In a casual environment, that's to be expected.

Uncoordinated damage spams from uncoordinated players to out-do an emp's heal should occur in zone. The mob mentality rules there, pick on the guy that is hurting, and everyone piles on over the next 20 secs. Why exactly should 1 toon be able to counter 3-5 unorganized people attacking the target in a casual environment? The perfect example to use as a comparison is the 5 v 5 arena matches I'm currently involved in on test ladder. If we count down a spike and go, that target needs to be dead in 6 secs or less or its almost always a failed spike under the current unsuppressed heal rules being used. You really want that back in a casual environment? The emps roll in zone is no longer the heal spam that it was pre i13. You can effectively provide the spike target with 100% of his health back, at which point its time to change to a disruption roll. Debuff, hold, knockback, and target phase, ect. These are the new protection tools at the emps disposal, which make the game significantly more fun for me as a healer. Now there is no longer any pressure on the healer to do nothing but.

Evasion pre i13 was cake to the point that it was in fact not even evasion. You simply turned, and super jump away from the danger. Activation time on any power used on you stopped that pursuer long enough that as long as you were slotted correctly, that enemy could no longer catch you, period. You could have had 3 people chasing you, the situation applied to all 3. As long as you kept moving in straight lines, you were safe. You may not know this due to your comments, but combat jumping is still unsuppressed movement. Properly slotting hurdle and combat jump with jump is require to get real benefit though if you would like to try it on test to confirm. I combine this with low slung buildings all the time to allow me to live in a situation that without it, I would not. It also works wonders around very tall buildings, where your suppression ends up being less than the attackers, allowing LoS break and time to get back into unsuppressed super jump. I could go into more detail on the best evasion details. However, if you honestly believe "evading in i13+ PvP involves moving in one direction at a slow pace" is all that's involved, than its clear I had best keep the best secrets to myself.

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What? lol. Not even close. In i12, you actually had to use coordinated attacks to kill a player buffed by a coordinated team. It only makes sense that you need coordination to defeat coordinated opponents. If a coordinated team is hardly better than a mob of random inexperienced players, then what is the point of even teaming in the first place? The whole basis of City of Heroes is that teaming makes individual ATs shine more than they would solo. I'm pretty sure it says that in the manual (which I thumbed through in like issue 2 or so).


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First of all you actually took my comment out of context completely. I was referencing resistance shields and their effectiveness with the new reduced protection from DR. You may want to go back and read that. However, I will go ahead and address your off topic point. Remember my comment in the original post about how difficult if not impossible it could be for for 3+ people in zone to kill little old me pre i13? Now compound that 10 times over on a coordinated team. Well organized teams really had no place in zone back then. As I said before, it was flat out boring for the team due to the unstoppable nature that i12 provided that style of play vs anything other than a well organized enemy team. We actually stopped zone running because it was making our arena team sloppy. It was so easy it felt like PvE. Back in the day you could have literally put a well organized team of 8 up vs 30 unorganized people, and a grand total of 8 would have wiped the floor with them all. The point of teaming, is to make your individual AT shine more than they would solo, and have an advantage. The design intent was never to turn those teamed players into rampaging gods vs all the noobs that the zone had to offer.

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DR wasn't voted in because people like DR on better than DR off


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I am perfectly aware of the details on the reasons why this change was made. I just pointed out the current ladder situation in case you were not informed, yes?

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I could probably write a book about why i13+ PvP is exponentialy worse than i12 PvP.


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It's good you didn't write that book here, as it would have been completely pointless with your confusion over the arena vs zone topic currently being discussed. I am completely fine with many of the things you have said so far, from the arena point of view. I just disagree with your opinions in the context of zone PvP.

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You claimed to be a veteran test server PvPer, yet no one I know seems to know who you are. Which SGs/VGs did you play for? and when?


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Since you asked, I got involved in the VG ladder over 2 years ago. I stayed with my starting team until the bitter end of the original ladder, which found us in the #2 slot prior to the ladder collapsing soon after the pending i13 changes. Since then I've been with 2 other teams, the current one that you can see in my sig. For all teams involved I was the starting stalker, with enough skill to be considered a reasonably good player. However since you didn't ask nicely, I'll let you scamper off to collect the names you so desire on your own, in an attempt to build an elitist comment employed to sting me to the core. I eagerly await your masterpiece of words.

I have been a hardcore zone and test team arena PvPer since villains went live. Many of my toons have at least some name recognition in Freedom RV in zone and on test team arena, so when I say I disagree with you regarding the changes to zone PvP resulting from i13, I believe I would hardly be qualified as not having the experience to make that call.

The following comments are regarding zone PvP only, as arena is still completely customizable according to the event in question. (though if you have been following the current ladder you will notice that DR was in fact voted in, just without TS and HS) Zone PvP for the many years I've been playing it, has always been a pickup game style of play. A well organized team on vent, will crush all commers under the current system, and was so overpowered under i12 rules as to be boring for the team, and frustrating to the extreme for the poor bastards being hunted down. On many occasions we ran a 5-8 man team that ran close to every hero out of the zone in under 30 mins. It was great fun when you were facing off vs an equally competent organized enemy, but I can count the number of times on 1 hand that our vent based team faced off vs any real competition.

I12's skilless organized zone heal spam is no longer possible in the current environment. Now after 3-4 heals, the target needs to phase, or if that is down, actually use strategy like (heaven forbid) LoS breaks to provide the healer, who now actually has to count down in his head the end of the heal suppression time, instead of mashing 1 button over and over, enough time for the heals to go back to being effective. My dom uses evasion strategies all the time around buildings. My therm finds this far more enjoyable than the past heal spam, as I actually have to THINK to keep track of which toons are on heal suppression and if I should actually heal a few hundred points of damage which would start suppression, or just wait and see if they turn out to be a real spike target or not, instead of just reacting to damage and pressing one button.

Buff shields are no longer all about just resist stack like they were in i12. (nobody in their right mind used defense shields) Under i13 rules defense shields have about as much or move viability in zone as resist due to DR and the fact that many players will not always be IO stacked on +Acc. Now you actually have to mix it up, to the point where a def based toon will only gain reasonable benefit from 1 def shield, and good benefit from resist shields, and vice versa on a resist based toon. Instead of what before would have just been 2 stacked resist shields, with no consideration of defense shields. If you actually put the numbers together as well, you'll notice that the large damage reduction across the board for all toons converts very well regarding the reduction in benefit to total resistance that shields provide, taking into effect the reduction and or elimination in many cases of unresisted damage. In other words, The fact that many resist based toons only get under 15% resistance from a resist shield just about balances out vs the the old i12 system.

As much as people say they hate it, movement suppression makes sence in a zone environment. Without it in i12, on my worst nights with the stalker, I may have died 1-3 times, after raking in dozens of kills. Best nights I could go for 4-5 hours with a massive kill count and no deaths at all. No heal suppression, stealth IO, and invis = virtually impossible to kill stalkers, even for large groups of players after the player. All this back in the day with 10 sec hide as well. Under the new system, even with a lower 8 sec hide refresh, a few attacks landing is all it takes to slow you enough for a group to close in and finish you off, which IMO is how it should be. Do we have to get into how great blasters were with PFF at surviving? Have 3+ people gunning for you while running solo? You ether have phase up or you should be dead, simple as that. Thankfully this game is more forgiving that every other MMO out there regarding pickup play and survival, however it was to the toon of stupidity the way i12 allowed certain toons a close to unkillable status.

I could honestly go on for pages more, but I simply don’t have the time. Perhaps we should agree to disagree.



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The simple fact: PvP is not nearly as good as it was. Infact, it is hardly "good" at all. It is less skill based - more build based; less fast paced and logistically demanding - more sluggish and dummed down.

We've all been over it a thousand times. This game's PvP is now a joke. We know it. The devs know it.

As much as I hate to issue ultimatums: anyone who truely believes that i13+ PvP is better than i12 PvP simply does not have the experience to make that call.

I'm going to leave it at that. But, I certainly wish I could have been there for that day, Zulu. I would have infernoed like there was no tommarow (which for all intents and purposes of CoH PvP, there wasn't, and probably never will be)

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Dont forget that what really makes DP shine is the -regen, and that was not touched. Slap that on a tank and good bye 1k+ hp regen over the next 30 secs. DP's -regen makes Psi the highest damage dealer of all just based on this alone.

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It still grants the same +Recov if I'm not mistaken. Which is a boon IMO since doms are lil more end heavy now.

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My stalker is a pain to kill, but my blaster eats pavement so fast its not funny when stalkers start coming out of the woodwork. My blaster has no qualms with a quick 4 green pop with being spiked by multiple flying sharks. What's so funny is I'd actually be dead if these new guys would just figure out how to AS.


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But Blood never dies.

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After death you can click on go to base, buy greens, pop 5 quickly to get to full health, then return to the exact spot you died. All that before you'd even be back to full health after resting at the hospital. The trick is you cant have a steam powered computer or your load times will be a nightmare.

Another good tip for all you poppers out there: set up hot keys for your greens in your inspiration box. You can bypass the total heal number suppression on the first 2 pops tapping your hotkey quickly. They will go off on the same server tick and you will not see a drop in heal effect on the second.

True story.

Base green runs.

Seriously, it takes me 45 seconds from the time I click on go to base until I'm back in zone at the same spot of my death with full health and 20 more greens waiting on the 30 second countdown to allow me to fight again. (this is faster than going to the hospital by far and you come back with full health) Prior to the change I could self heal over 6,000 points of damage going through the greens, escape, have a turret or npc kill me, then make another trip to the base to refill. Combine that with phase/pff and it was just lame and close to impossible to kill the popper.

Just saying.

I was chatting it up last night in RV and found the name of the PB that used to give my stalker fits, Agent Galaxy. His PB build was the most difficult to kill thing I've ever run into, period. Does anyone know his forum name? I'd love to pick his brain about his build.

Thanks a ton for laying out the numbers. I'll add even more info to your post:

Haymaker - 90.23 cast time 1.50 sec
Kick - 87.00 cast time 1.83 sec

Knockoutblow - 151 cast time2.23
Flurry - 135 cast time 3.07

If this doesnt clear up this myth than nothing will. Who even started this crap rumor anyway?

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ok, well i am in the arena right now testn this with 2 lvl 50 unenhanced brutes. so far i have this:

Haymaker - 90.23
Kick - 87.00

Haymaker does more damage

Knockoutblow - 151
Flurry - 135

KOB wins.

You might want to think again. these are actual numbers. no enhancements, no fury, no inspirations no nothing.

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Dirty Mel getting me interested in PBers for PvP. Perhaps a run to 50 on a new one for double xp weekend?

Quick question on the dwarf form taunt. I cant find it in city of data, have you confirmed that it does in fact have the -range effect? The power pool ones do not, so just wanted to be sure before I get excited about building a PBer.

Double stacking is all well and good, but the real beauty of the VEATs is that the per cap is higher for them. Meaning they don't just see at 10 feet, its something like 50-100 feet. If you know anything about organized arena pvp, you'll know this is freakin huge. Add to that the fact a mm can put a pet on a stalker perma if he spots them and you have an excellent issue incoming. I'm in complete disagreement with the OP. The new issue will be the saving grace of all stalker issue he is actually claiming to be concerned about. (You realize we're just feeding the troll right? He just wants all of our food…)

Lag may have increased, however the fact you're being effected by it is a direct result of having a steam powered computer. :P I play every night in RV on Freedom on max graphics and never experience lag no matter how many people on are the screen...

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Update: After lagging into a couple more deaths in RV, I remembered I have a toon on lol, Virtue. So for testing purposes I checked it out. Went to virtue sirens call.

Zero lag. Right away, it just felt different. You could actually move without rubberbanding. The NPC's were flying, running....not teleporting all over the map. No power tray issues. Basically how it was before I15.

So congrats Freedom. This seems to be a server problem. They just had to [censored] up the most popular PvP server.

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freedom RV is always nuts active. Just make sure you dont have a steam powered box, because it will have fits with all the players on screen if you do.

You trolls crack me up. Why exactly are you bothering to point any of this out? Do you think they will change pvp back? Why waste your time posting something that is meaningless? You ether like the current pvp system and play it, or don’t like it and should go back to lolpve.

I fail at reading. Thanks for pointing this out, I feel much better now about the fix.


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Please note the red name said AFTER slotting in the example provided. If thats the case, the bug, is amounting to only 5% more damage then intended? You think fixing that will change anything regarding a dom spike?


****The damage will be brought a bit more in line with other AT's. Should look more like this after slotting:

Charged Bolts after changes: 181 damage at lvl 50
Charged Bolts for Blasters: 191 damage at lvl 50***

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On live CB deals 115 damage ~ 224 enhanced.

Knocking it down to 181 (enhanced) is about a 19% reduction from live.

Doms will still be kicking butt, but that is noticeable.

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Please note the red name said AFTER slotting in the example provided. If thats the case, the bug, is amounting to only 5% more damage then intended? You think fixing that will change anything regarding a dom spike?


****The damage will be brought a bit more in line with other AT's. Should look more like this after slotting:

Charged Bolts after changes: 181 damage at lvl 50
Charged Bolts for Blasters: 191 damage at lvl 50***

I'm sorry to say it, but being a dom who has lived in RV for 2 years now, this change is a bit OP. With 1550 hps and 3 layers of control, its not even funny what I'm doing to blasters right now. Very few blasters put the effort into messing up their build enough to fit in 7 KB IO's. However, without it they are meat for the slaughter now. I can shave off 50% of a blasters hps before they even stand aften hitting them with lift. Follow that with a hold so they cant pop BU/Aim, and we're on the same damage playing field. They still alive after the hold and pop BU/Aim? I cage them for 8 seconds and, ya, they back to same damage. It’s a ton of fun to destroy people, but lord, this is like childs play now. I like a challenge, so I switched to my blaster and played that last night instead lol.




***From what I've seen (on both sides of the fence) Dom's are doing better than they "were" definately, but they are no-where NEAR the levels of "OMG BROKEN" performance that many of you claim!***



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Yeah way over powered. i took 340 pts of damage from fossilize plus got held and Total Focused for another 600 and something. Way OP.

I mean i get my kills and im not saying nerf anything yet but at the rate it was going last night it needs looked at. i mean once they figure out the right fotm build and proper slotting it could be I12 pvp all over again as far as chain holds go. It was happening to me last night.

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Wow. LMFAO! You guys are seriously ridiculous sometimes.


From what I've seen (on both sides of the fence) Dom's are doing better than they "were" definately, but they are no-where NEAR the levels of "OMG BROKEN" performance that many of you claim! I mean wow...talk about blowing things out of propotion. Dom's are still easy easy EASY victims to ANY even "average" spike damage that you wanna throw at them and if your not smart enough to kill a domie "after" hibernate, then you really need to consider just quitting the game altogether, because you absolutely suck.


Dom's are simply finally being CONTENDERS in pvp (not everyone had a beastly perma-dom build prior to this). They might be doing near Blaster level damage (I still feel good Blaster builds put out way more) but they suffer from being more susceptible to being "spiked" and killed than Blasters.


I'm sure, no...POSITIVE, that many/most will disagree, but that's fine, it's the whining I've come to expect here. However, what I'm stating (through my observations/testing so far on both side of the picture) are true. Domies are finally contenders and a threat....I don't find that a problem at all.

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Part of the reason you dont see many MM's in zone is due to the difficulty in escaping a gank with such low base hps. You can slug it out vs 2 people, but as soon as a 3rd joins in you're up the creek unless you phase because you cant run off without being beat down outside of BG mode. Its a challenging balancing act for people who enjoy self inflicted difficulty.

To Barrier? What were you thinking!

Something interesting, the base duration change on mez is very obvious IMO, by at least a second or 2. I found I noticed the duration increase on hold put on me by trollers. I'm sure its at least 5 seconds now with acro, though it could have been 6. Here is the huge part. Stuns are INSANITY now. When on my blaster last night, I counted out 7-8 sec stun on me after being worm holed. I cant believe I'm saying this, but I actually may consider taking that power now lol.

Yep, the grav/psi. Let me finish my test build so I can take hiber and a few other things I wouldnt normally have for my zone build and we'll have a go at it.