Vidszhite

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My main problem in PvE is in larger groups. When I solo I can lockdown 2 or 3 critters easily. It's when the groups get large and there are multiple bosses where I have trouble. I can either lay back and try to chain hold the group, which usually means I am not truly doing the best job I should, or jump in the middle of the mob. If I jump in, it leads to me face-planting. Hopefully I have mezzed the mob enough so that my teammates live to rez me. If I lay back, I am neglecting the stun component of my build (Grav/ENR) and others will face plant leaving me exposed. Shortly thereafter I face-plant.

in smaller groups or solo, I have no problems. Unfortunately, I have a feeling that larger teams will be needed in the 40+ content.

So we could use the help not only for PvP but in )large group) PvE as well.

Just my 2 Infamy.

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I agree, it's both a Combination of the Purple Patch and the sheer multitude of Bosses in every spawn on 8 person teams. The feeling that multiple MMs make us useless also comes up - the fact that there are so damn many of them doesn't help.

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As long as the dom board presents a happy world where everything is wonderful and naysayers get flamed ....

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Don't exaggerate.

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If he worded his posts differently, I'm almost certain he'd have few problems with people flaming him. I'm taking the same stance as him and the only person I see "flaming" me is Ditzy_Blonde, and she isn't really flaming me.

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Something needs to be done, dominator population is low and sinking. Even with the changes dominators are still little more than fodder in pvp.

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I fully expect to get flamed for saying this (because I have been saying the same thing and getting flamed for it for 3-4 months now) but doms really need to present a united front to the devs in saying that we need changes. As long as the dom board presents a happy world where everything is wonderful and naysayers get flamed till their toenails are curling, we are not likely to be high on the priority list for buffs.

FivefifteenA

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And yet you STILL dont get it. We dont need a complete overhaul like you think. What we need is some tweaks. VIABLE Tweaks. No reducing the recharge time on Domination IS NOT a viable tweak. Thats the problem. Period.

Increased Damage
Increased charging of Dom bar (maybe 4pts per attack in PvE)
Increased control duration
Increased mag or perhaps the controllers 2nd inherent (the ability to crit on a hold)

Any of these would have been viable solutions for PvE... we got none.

Complete overhaul of the AT, nope.. wrong way to go about it. Viable tweaks... Yes!!!

Shame we are still waiting for them

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I agree with both of you. We do need buffs like those presented, and maybe our secondaries need to be re-ordered (Psi especially, LOL) but we don't need to be rebuilt from scratch or anything.

And as you can see, FivefifteenA, the Dom boards are anything but a happy world where all is well right now. Maybe there are a few people like Ditzy_Blonde who think that just because we're a support AT we don't deserve to be balanced for damage OR support in all situations, but they are greatly outnumbered by the people who think we got jacked in I7.

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Then how come we are not all pulling together? I just got criticized by whatshizname because he thinks I want a "complete overhaul" while he wants "tweaks." Of course, I have never said I want a "complete overhaul," but why let facts stand in the way of flames?

Anyway, as long as we are flaming amongst ourselves over minor details, the devs aren't likely to pay us any heed -- and rightly so.

FivefifteenA

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I agree. I cant believe I just said that o.O

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Why do you feel compeled to be consistently rude, Vidszhite??
I think many of you are focusing on pvp and neglecting Pve in some respects. Domi's are a support AT y'all. Yes, a bit underpowered but I played today for about 6 hours using 3 different lvl 40 dom's. Overall, if this is what we get it's better than what we had before unless you live to pvp.

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The way I read it: "We're a gimped support AT, but since I played 3 of them at level 40 for 6 hours total that doesn't matter unless you factor in PvP. You should be grateful we even GOT something to begin with."

Yes, but the way I see it, if we ARE a bit underpowered, doesn't that mean the people asking for a boost have every right to say so?

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Sure .. you can ask for a boost but you most likely arent going to get it. I think thats been proven.
Thanks Brad too for your input because you are 100% correct.
Fifteen? Many people plan a toon all the way to 50 solely for the benefits they reap upon achieving their goal. Many people were solely disgusted with Warburg and Sirens Call. Simply because its a lvl gimp for a 50.
If you want to pvp then make a toon to pvp in the zone you prefer. Don't pick a toon that blooms late.
Elemental really. I mean this isnt brain science. Fact is that dom is dom and will be dom and wont be boosted beyond for some time. Do i think a dom should have a more aggressive role in the scheme of Cov//Coh/?Heck yes!!! But that isnt what is happening to date.
Please refrain from flaming.
I'de rather read posts by people testing. Thanks

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So just because there is little hope of getting a valid boost, we should give up all efforts of trying? Sorry, that's not how I was raised. I was raised to fight for what I believe in, no matter what it took. If the going gets harder, you fight harder. You don't give up.

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Something needs to be done, dominator population is low and sinking. Even with the changes dominators are still little more than fodder in pvp.

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I fully expect to get flamed for saying this (because I have been saying the same thing and getting flamed for it for 3-4 months now) but doms really need to present a united front to the devs in saying that we need changes. As long as the dom board presents a happy world where everything is wonderful and naysayers get flamed till their toenails are curling, we are not likely to be high on the priority list for buffs.

FivefifteenA

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And yet you STILL dont get it. We dont need a complete overhaul like you think. What we need is some tweaks. VIABLE Tweaks. No reducing the recharge time on Domination IS NOT a viable tweak. Thats the problem. Period.

Increased Damage
Increased charging of Dom bar (maybe 4pts per attack in PvE)
Increased control duration
Increased mag or perhaps the controllers 2nd inherent (the ability to crit on a hold)

Any of these would have been viable solutions for PvE... we got none.

Complete overhaul of the AT, nope.. wrong way to go about it. Viable tweaks... Yes!!!

Shame we are still waiting for them

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I agree with both of you. We do need buffs like those presented, and maybe our secondaries need to be re-ordered (Psi especially, LOL) but we don't need to be rebuilt from scratch or anything.

And as you can see, FivefifteenA, the Dom boards are anything but a happy world where all is well right now. Maybe there are a few people like Ditzy_Blonde who think that just because we're a support AT we don't deserve to be balanced for damage OR support in all situations, but they are greatly outnumbered by the people who think we got jacked in I7.

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This was the problem with low level controllers, they stunk to high heaven till post 32. This was considered contrary to fun gameplay so they got containment in exchange for the cut to aoe holds.

Dom's are in the controllers old boat. They stink till the mid 30's.

The problem is they are too dependant on domination and too weak when not using it, they need to be balanced out more.

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The devs built us with post-containment Controllers in their minds. But since we didn't get containment, nothing really made us overpowered.

If we aren't going to get mez protection, the very least we need is just-below Corr damage, more HP and high control to balance that out. And the band-aid that is Domination shouldn't have to be that balancing factor.

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Something needs to be done, dominator population is low and sinking. Even with the changes dominators are still little more than fodder in pvp.

And no one has ever accused a dominator of being good in pve. Except for plant.. but that doesnt make up for the rest of the sets not performing and even plant is all because of seeds.

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Remember that guy who said he didn't take seeds and he was complaining how useless he was? LOL.

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This was the problem with low level controllers, they stunk to high heaven till post 32. This was considered contrary to fun gameplay so they got containment in exchange for the cut to aoe holds.

Dom's are in the controllers old boat. They stink till the mid 30's.

The problem is they are too dependant on domination and too weak when not using it, they need to be balanced out more.

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The devs built us with post-containment Controllers in their minds. But since we didn't get containment, nothing really made us overpowered.

If we aren't going to get mez protection, the very least we need is just-below Corr damage, more HP and high control to balance that out. And the band-aid that is Domination shouldn't have to be that balancing factor.

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Why do you feel compeled to be consistently rude, Vidszhite??
I think many of you are focusing on pvp and neglecting Pve in some respects. Domi's are a support AT y'all. Yes, a bit underpowered but I played today for about 6 hours using 3 different lvl 40 dom's. Overall, if this is what we get it's better than what we had before unless you live to pvp.

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The way I read it: "We're a gimped support AT, but since I played 3 of them at level 40 for 6 hours total that doesn't matter unless you factor in PvP. You should be grateful we even GOT something to begin with."

Yes, but the way I see it, if we ARE a bit underpowered, doesn't that mean the people asking for a boost have every right to say so?

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1) Breakfrees prevent control in PVP

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IMO, with toggle-dropping restricted, inspirations should be disabled in PvP zones.

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If we don't have break frees, then how are we going to stop a tanker who just used a ST hold on us from far away? I say this idea sucks.

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That's what I meant by enforcing team play.

No one on your team can free you, heal you, run interference for you, or even just recall friend your butt out of there until suppression kicks in? Maybe it's time for a new team?

Yeah, I know it's not that simple... but the opposing team is in the same boat...

[Well, except for God's gift to AT's... controls, buffs, damage *and* mez resistance in APP's. ]

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Well when you put it THAT way I like the idea. I still want the option of going solo, though, but I guess I'll just have to deal with Warburg or pray a Tanker/Scrapper in RV took Body Mastery. 99% of them did anyway.

If they remove Breakfrees, they need to remove Containment's 3x damage buff in PvP, though. That bonus wouldn't be remotely fair.

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Saddens me to read that people are going to abandon their dom's because they are unhappy with the changes.
Ironically ? Noone whohas posted that sentiment has a dom over lvl 37.

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Personally, I don't think I should have to play a toon to level 38 before it starts getting good

FivefifteenA

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Don't bother. Already said it. Didn't do a damn thing but get me flamed. The last thing you need is more people flaming you.

But now that you bring it up I can remember my exact words: "We shouldn't have to wait till past 30 to become un-gimped, we should be balanced from 1-50 instead of from 30-40 and then we're gimped again 41-50 [referring to our sucktacular PPPs]."

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Why do you feel compeled to be consistently rude, Vidszhite??
I think many of you are focusing on pvp and neglecting Pve in some respects. Domi's are a support AT y'all. Yes, a bit underpowered but I played today for about 6 hours using 3 different lvl 40 dom's. Overall, if this is what we get it's better than what we had before unless you live to pvp.

Saddens me to read that people are going to abandon their dom's because they are unhappy with the changes.
Ironically ? Noone whohas posted that sentiment has a dom over lvl 37. Guess what?
Sometimes things take work. The dev's are on the right track. Personally, I think the changes made dom's easily more soloable.It's all in what you want guys and up to now according to you it's all DOOOOOM!.
IF YOU DONT WANT TO PLAY A DOM
THEN DON'T PLAY ONE.
Thank you to all of the people actively testing and posting in this thread. You know who you are aside from all the naysayers and doombringers.
On a testing note? Did anyone notice that dom once built but not yet activated has a longer sustainable duration?By that I mean i can build my dom to an arbitrary %, Ill say 70, and hold it there much longer than in 6. Yes it still drops a little but overall its much easier to put domination on 'hold". Easily long enough for an mm to set up or what have you. That was a complaint said again and again in these forums.
Again?Kudo's to all of you who are willing to stick it out and continue to try to find the rays of sunshine amidst the storm clouds

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Who said I don't like playing a Dom? I LOVE playing my Dom, I just think we could use some buffs. And really, since we don't get mez protection in PvP, we'd still control less effectively than a Tanker or a Scrapper without our breakfrees.

_Ilr_ is the guy abandoning his Dom, I'm never quitting my Dom, not even if they remove the AT from the game. I'll make a character and in his origin story it will SAY he is a Dom. With the Confuse changes, I've never felt more evil and powerful in PvE. I guess I have just learned the people who whine the loudest get the boost. Just look at toggle droppers.


EDIT: One minor note, I...uh...I can't quite understand a word you're saying. Your post is a bit tough to read, sorry ^^;

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1) Breakfrees prevent control in PVP

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IMO, with toggle-dropping restricted, inspirations should be disabled in PvP zones.

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If we don't have break frees, then how are we going to stop a tanker who just used a ST hold on us from far away? I say this idea sucks.

I dunno if many people have even gotten past 40 because of the zone crash bugs lol.

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I got the Mako Pool on my brute so the choices I have are:

Spirit Shark <--- I love the look on it kinda hard to see tho.
School of Sharks <---- Taking this after CHUM SPRAY!!!
CHUM SPRAY!!!!!!!! <--- My reason for taking the pool
Lame pet <--- I refuse to even bother.

You must be thinking about another set.

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They changed its name back to Chum Spray!? O.o

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Question.
Do Mu powers have the same ability as other electric powers to "overload his synapses, leaving him writhing for a moment"? and if not then why?

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Because other elec powers have End Drain

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Kali, very mature. Really. I guess I shouldn't have expected more.

Vidszhite, I'd suggest against using TF to drop toggles. A three plus second animation in melee range against melee players isn't going to do wonders. You'll be Stunned before you're even half-way through the slam dunk.

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Why do you think I'm appalled it only has a 46% chance to drop ONE toggle?

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No, your corruptor has no toggle drops.

Let's make something clear regarding toggle drops...Stuns, Holds, Sleeps will drop ALL toggles, provided that the target has no status resistance. The reason why people believed that Total Focus (from a Dominator) drops all toggles is because it has two things going for it...a 100% chance to drop at least 1 toggle and a disorient. Let's say I hit a Tanker with a Total Focus. If that toggle I drop happens to be Unyielding...The Total Focus will also Stun the Tanker and drop all of his toggles because he has no status protection.

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And then the stun lasts 5 seconds and supression kicks in, whereupon I am murdered because I cannot hold the guy again, Domination or not.

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i have been held for much longer than 5 seconds at a time in pvp after my shield is either overloaded or toggle dropped.

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If I used nothing but Total Focus and it dropped your toggle, you would be stunned for 5-8 seconds and then get suppression.

If I had thrown a Hold on you, you'd be held for 15 seconds, or 30 seconds if I had used Power Boost.

Total Focus is still going to suck for dropping toggles, though. Bone Smasher was my main dropper before, and now look at it.

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No, your corruptor has no toggle drops.

Let's make something clear regarding toggle drops...Stuns, Holds, Sleeps will drop ALL toggles, provided that the target has no status resistance. The reason why people believed that Total Focus (from a Dominator) drops all toggles is because it has two things going for it...a 100% chance to drop at least 1 toggle and a disorient. Let's say I hit a Tanker with a Total Focus. If that toggle I drop happens to be Unyielding...The Total Focus will also Stun the Tanker and drop all of his toggles because he has no status protection.

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And then the stun lasts 5 seconds and supression kicks in, whereupon I am murdered because I cannot hold the guy again, Domination or not.

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Welcome to MMO PVP. Whoever screams "WE SUCK" the loudest gets to be next months kings of pvp. It's basically one giant slow-motion ping pong tourney.

-Tsoo

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Heh yup.

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I wonder how come Dominators aren't Kings of PvP then I KNOW we (well, I) whine more than that.

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Issuse 8 FoTM prediction:
Mind/Energy Dom

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QFT

i predicted this months ago.

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It'll be /Psi, not /Energy. /Energy has the fewest ranged attacks that are worth slotting - I myself only planned to slot ONE up because the others either root you for 4 hours or don't do enough damage, and in the case of Power Bolt, Both! The secondary effect is KB, which everyone has protection against (unless you detoggle it...not so anymore) And you have to hit for the extra Domination points to work.

/Psi is least defended against, has a level 1 attack that can be spammed as fast as Neutrino Bolt, and their attacks slow recharge rate. I bet when they buff Mental Blast to actually-worth-taking levels it'll become even better. If anything, Psi assault has the most right to complain about their secondary. Just look at it, lol. Even I will be pushing for Psi to get boosts along with the rest of our secondaries, maybe even to the point of /Psi getting Telekinetic Blast.

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Ok, got a lot more testing in last night so here are some more impressions and findings...

First up, the increased Domination build up from our secondary is only being applied when we attack another player. Attacking npc mobs or objects, including the artillery guns at the control points, still only yields the base 2 Domination to our bar.

Second, spent some time last night working with the heroes to spawn both the hero and villain signature characters in RV. Went up against Sister Psyche, Manticore, Positron, and Back Alley Brawler in the course of the evening. Even with myself and at least two other Dom's popping Domination, I did not see them get held once. I was chaining my mezzes at them as fast as I could and running TK, still nada. Spoke to some controllers and they could not hold the villain signature characters either. I don't know if this is intentional, it might be a balance thing they did for RV and I will be posting in the RV forum about it. However, this really brings up the AV issue for me in the late PvE game. I felt totally useless once those Heroes came out. Since mezzing seemed a hopeless endeavor I started trying to lay in with the damage. Well, when Domination wasn't up I kinda felt like I was throwing toothpicks at Hami. When it was up, and my dam was kind of respectable, I quickly got one-shotted into next week. Not fun, and if I was putting together an AV team for the late game, I probably wouldn't even want me on it.

Anyway, some other PvP Dom impressions. There were a lot less people in RV last night, so it was a lot easier to tell what was going on. Sure enough, under normal conditions with a normal number of players Doms are quickly singled out and ganked into a fine red paste. However, even with the target on my back I still got Domination off several times last night, so I am convinced this was an effective and worthwhile change. Don't think it goes far enough, but definitely a good start.

Dom's vs. Scrapper and Tanks in the late game -- I did notice even wtih Domination up I had trouble getting my holds to stick on scrappers and tanks. I think it comes done to an issue of the Mog, Unstoppable etc. final tier powers in their defense lines. Gonna try to get a scrapper or tank parnter and do some solid testing on this tonight, but near as I can tell from last night if a tank or scrapper has activated their final tier defense power, well we're not gonna hold them even with Domination. And I'm not saying this is a bad thing, because hey, when that Unstoppable runs out they are gonna get toasted and that's the way unstoppable and similar powers have always been. Just saying that it appears they do trump Domination for those wondering and I'll try to get some solid numbers on it tonight.

So, to sum it all up, I feel pretty confirmed in the initial impressions. While the change to Domination is great and does have an impact on our PvP experience, it is still a ways off from correcting our rather glaring shortcomings. We are still an easy target in PvP, and I am even more concerned about our PvE role in the late game where AV's become so common. I Dom's Dom's may be too much of a hybrid, part control, part ranged attack, part melee attack, and I understand the difficulty in balancing these three aspects. I'm wondering if maybe we shouldn't lose our melee attacks altogether in favor of a stronger ranged secondary?

Oh, and we seriously need an hp boost.

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/signed. Anyone who tries to tell us that we aren't a DD class and should get over it needs to realize that if we aren't a DD class, why don't we have a buff secondary? What good are we when our primary is a nerfed version of a Controllers' and our secondary isn't important? Bring up Defenders and I'll tell you Defenders get the most powerful Debuff abilities 100% of the time (even if Controllers do some of it better) while Dominators only get their better Control a fraction of the time.

And if anyone says "you get Domination" then I will slap them into last christmas. We are weak as hell when Domination is down. LIKE I SAID when I said I didn't want a change to Domination. All of you who said you wanted Domination to recharge faster got what you wanted, but as you can see it still doesn't fix anything: the problem wasn't with Domination, it was the fact that without it, we suck, and we need fixes OUTSIDE of it instead of being given more band aids that make us more and more dependent on it to not suck. So, maybe Domination will change us from good to awesome instead of Gimped to Un-Gimped.

Maybe it's time they actually gave us stuff like Blaster HP, Controller Durations, and 75/80 damage modifiers (Corrs have 75, but they have enough buffs where they can approach blaster ranged damage, they get all the good attacks earlier, they get NUKES, AND they have Scourge, which is always there unlike Domination). This is the stuff we've been begging for since as long as I can remember. At this point, I don't care what the detoggle nerf is. I just want to not be the gimped villain AT anymore.

Another thing I fear out of everything else is the Lord Recluse SF. You only have 8 slots on a team for people, why waste one slot on a Dominator if he can't hold the AHes? Control? Everyone is getting Control in the Patron pools, why pick a Dominator when everyone else can do that too? Damage? LOL. You're better off taking a Corr who uses Flurry, Jump Kick, and Air Superiority as his attack chain - at least he can SCOURGE off of them.

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We have two toggle droppers available; Block of Ice and Ice Sword. Ice Sword is 5% and my understanding is that BoI - which even three slotted for acc misses more than it hits in PvP - also is affected by the new detoggles. Regardless, BoI is not a damage dealer OR a control.

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Um, BoI is your Single-target hold, and if you stack it enough times on someone, it will drop all of their toggles because it's a hold. BoI never had a detoggle ability attached to it aside from the hold...that was Greater Ice Sword, which IS a damage power, so I have no idea what you're talking about.

Way to know your own powers, lol.

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Just why the heck do Stalkers still have the highest toggle drop chance??? Stalkers already have unresisted damage in their criticals.

If any AT should still have high toggle drop percentages it should be defenders who cannot dish out the damage needed to bring down a toggle heavy opponent.

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Now do you see why Dominators were up in arms over the change that gives our first dropper a 5% chance? >.>

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Welcome to MMO PVP. Whoever screams "WE SUCK" the loudest gets to be next months kings of pvp. It's basically one giant slow-motion ping pong tourney.

-Tsoo

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Heh yup.

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I wonder how come Dominators aren't Kings of PvP then I KNOW we (well, I) whine more than that.

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Once again _Castle_, your a gentleman and scholar. Thanks for taking the time posting those numbers for us. As for the numbers themself, I know Im quite satisfied with them. I think it makes for a more health PVP evironment.

And to the ppl displeased with Doms. Think of it like this. How long does it take you to recharge you best toggle droppping power? I know for my Dom, TF recharges pretty fast considering. And Doms are made the "kings" of toggle dropping after I7. I think that in itself is pretty flattering.

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Are you kidding me? TF takes like three years to animate, and unless you have recharge reduction or hasten it takes 20 seconds to recharge. TF is the worst one, lol. Blaze and Psy Shockwave are probably the best ones now - short animations, shorter recharges, and PSW is PBAoE.

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That may be an issue for you, but I have 2 rch + hasten for TF and its fine. When I get FPO's (Freedom Phalanx Origins), Ill have 3 rch in the power to make it rechange even faster.

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That'd suck your end dry pretty fast

Well, the non-/energy's do anyway, lol.