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Only the publisher? In the games industry, the publisher wields complete power over the developer. You need to understand how intellectual property and publishing works.

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Your comments aren't entirely true about the relationship between publishers and developers. The relationship can vary greatly, with some publishers doing pretty much everything for their developer to simply distributing the game and putting it on the shelf. It depends on how much control either party has / wants in the relationship, or alternatively how much risk either party is willing to shoulder on their own.

Cryptic appears to be moving from just developing games to also wanting to provide a lot of back-end support for them, which is certainly a step into some of the roles NCsoft was performing for them.

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Which again, begs the question, if NCSoft was 100% behind Cryptic after the acquisition of the MUO development, why wasn't this funding and resources given?

It's because NCSoft didn't want to fund a developer that is also developing for a rival publisher. Since Cryptic was developing for both NCSoft and Microsoft, some funds would definitely go generally Cryptic in general and you couldn't account for some dollars. Also there would still be staff that would share technology, resources and expertise between the two development teams. It's not like there was a chinese wall between the two teams. NCSoft, in the end, was hesitant to provide lots of money to a developer where that money might end up helping to develop a rival game. There was a serious conflict of interest and it's clear this buyout shows it.

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Believe it or not, the sale of CoH/V to NCsoft isn't ultimately a money issue. It's a project management issue. But I'll get to that.

First off, of course there are chinese walls in place. According to Jack, CoH/V was developed on one floor at Cryptic and MUO was developed on another. The two teams were kept separate. Don't forget that the other 'side' here is Marvel / Microsoft, who wouldn't want to see their money going into developing CoH/V either. Contractually there would have been clauses in place to ensure that development money went directly to the project it was earmarked for, not thrown into a slush fund that Cryptic could use for any of their projects.

Secondly MUO is being developed on a highly modified version of the Cryptic engine (according to Sporkfire who will be the MUO lead CM) so it's doubtful that a lot of technical expertise could be shared between the teams, even if they wanted to. The engines for the two games are going to be very different creatures and, apart from core optimisations, it wouldn't be possible to do day-to-day collaborations even if Cryptic were allowed to.

Finally, if there was so obviously a conflict of interest, why did Marvel / Microsoft choose Cryptic to develop MUO? Why, on hearing the news, didn't NCsoft slap Cryptic around vigorously for doing the deal? The answer is that their wasn't a conflict of interest between CoH/V and MUO coming out of Cryptic if properly managed. MUO is a Vista-only and Xbox 360 product, CoH/V is a Windows PC product. At this point in time these markets barely overlap and, even assuming that MUO launches in 2008, they aren't competing in the same space.

NCsoft kept supporting CoH/V since the MUO announcement - Lighthouse and Ex Libris have joined us since then. I have no information about who pulled the plug on the paid expansion, but find it hard to believe that NCsoft would pull funding if all that would achieve would be helping to retard CoH/V's growth (which, if MUO is a competitor as you say, would be a stupid move to make).

But going back - NCsoft buying Cryptic wasn't a money issue. It was a project management issue. Cryptic has at least two MMOs in development and has done a lot of expanding recently. During this expansion, the CoH/V team doesn't appear to have grown much (although some new people would have come in to replace those who had left). This isn't saying that CoH/V was abandoned, just that the attention of management was in setting up new projects, not tinkering with those that were established and working well. Cryptic was hiring to expand their new projects. Now, NCsoft could have come in and asked Cryptic to double the CoH/V team, but that's probably not part of their contract as a publisher. Also, doubling team sizes is a human resources, logistics and office management issue - the new Cryptic building may not have the necessary room to allow such expansion, while management may not wish to look after another recruiting drive when their focus has shifted to actually getting their games developed.

The best way for NCsoft to see the CoH/V project managed as they wanted it to be managed was to take it over. In a very friendly acquisition, Cryptic gets a money to develop their other projects (and I'm guessing not much of that money will flow into the Microsoft / Marvel-funded MUO) while NCsoft gets a new-yet-established studio that they can manage as they wish.

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That's not what I'm saying. I was just criticizing the marketing b.s. that's was drolled out to calm the masses when the MUO announcement was made. There was a clear conflict of interest and contrary to what everyone was saying that one developer could develop for two competing rival publishers in the same genre that clearly is not the case. I just think that the people who raised concerns about the funding and development of CoH by Cryptic after the MUO announcement were proven right. I'm not criticizing the change, I'm just criticizing the propaganda that was played and how some players who brought up this issue were hung out to dry that our concerns were baseless.

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Again, if properly managed there is no conflict of interest with Cryptic having MUO and CoH/V or else Microsoft / Marvel wouldn't have given Cryptic the project. NCsoft has decided they want to take the 'City of...' franchise further than Cryptic, an independent developer working on several projects, was able to. This way NCsoft gets 100% of the profits and can directly tell NCsoft NorCal which direction to go in, rather than splitting profits and having to negotiate with Cryptic about the path that CoH/V should take going forward.

Also, without commenting on individual cases, the hysterical "CoH/V is DOOOOOMed in the face of MUO!" argument is still to be proven, while CoH/V has seen some excellent features released since MUO was announced. I really haven't seen a lot of evidence that CoH/V has dramatically suffered / been put out to pasture because Cryptic took on MUO.

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Has anyone seen any detail on the price?

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We will probably never get a handle on the price paid from NCsoft for Cryptic.

I'm not going to put down any numbers, but I did a rough calc of how much revenue CoH/V generates from its player base over one year. I think it was probably more than that (2x operating revenue + goodwill is my rough guide for valuing what a business is worth) which adds up to a nice chunk of change.

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Hey NCsoft! The next time you do something as major and exciting and feel like doing something good for those who helped, just throw yourselves a major office party or take your employees somewhere special. Save yourselves from the whining and moaning of all these players who feel they are priviledged or deserving, for they will moan about anything you should be generous enough to give.

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Note well: if you don't also invite the players to the "somewhere special", we'll complain about that too.

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Perhaps Jack just meant that he was one of the first hires?

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Well, the quote from the Statesman that keeps ringing in my head is "Positron founded Cryptic with me." though I honestly have no real evidence other than rotten memory to back this up.

And I WAS pretty close to Rick Dakan's name, wasn't I?

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Positron was around a long time before CoH launched. There's a reason he was given Lead Dev status once Statesman moved to a different role within Cryptic.

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A serious question here: CoH/V was developed and maintained using the proprietary Cryptic Engine and toolsets. Is NCsoft NorCal doing to be licensing these applications from Cryptic?

Or does NCsoft Norcal plan to develop its own toolsets to develop for CoH/V?

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"As part of the agreement, NCsoft is licensing Cryptic's engine technologies for use with future games." -- crypticstudios.com

Here I take "future games" to mean COV-like expansion boxes which may be in the works and they could market as separate games. I don't think NCsoft would be releasing another game based on this engine, but what do I know.

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Thanks for that - I missed it in my skimming of all the different info that was out there and it wasn't in the FAQ.

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A serious question here: CoH/V was developed and maintained using the proprietary Cryptic Engine and toolsets. Is NCsoft NorCal doing to be licensing these applications from Cryptic?

Or does NCsoft Norcal plan to develop its own toolsets to develop for CoH/V?

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And what does Garriot have to do with COH? Nothing, so... shrug on that one.

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Ummm.... he owns it now.

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Which is why the ultimate evolution for Garriot is from Lord British to General British to ... SUPER BRITISH!

"Super British" will replace Statesman in every text statement and a new Super British model will appear. In order to fit in, Hero One will be retconned to come from, I don't know, Spain.

*Ultra British works too.

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Here's to hoping this announcement is DOUBLE good news for me. Staffing up GOOD!

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For those interested in gainful gaming employment, check out the NCsoft North America Jobs Listing. Positions for "Mountain View" would be in our newly formed NCsoft NorCal Studio.

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Given that even you and Ex didn't know who was coming across until today, how many of those Mountain View positions are now taken up by CoH/V people?

Also, I noticed that nowhere on that list for Mountain View is the position of "Well-Paid Lackey". Since I am expertly qualified for such a position, I suggest you update that list post-haste so I can get to applying for it. ;-)

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Didn't see this coming, but it makes sense.

Hope you CoH/V devs got a pay rise out of this ;-)

Happy Birthday CoV (and your often derided cousin ED)!

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Nice little earthquake was just felt rumbling through the studios.

Yikers...


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The gods are angry! Release I11 now to sate their wrath!

It was a nice video.

My only issue was that the Dual Blade animations looked a little off since the character's heads don't move at all - all the movement is coming from the body, but it's not reflected in the head. But that's a small thing.

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I'll watch the video at some point, but I'm enjoying the sub-thread of "watch iPirate endure not being able to see the video until he gets home". ;-)

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I am shocked and appalled to read the list of new posting requirements that are now in effect. No one syllable posts? No lols or just block quoting what someone else has said then adding no discernible new value to them? This is clearly a way of nerfing future posters from ever achieving the Forum Cartel or Cuppa Incarnate forum titles.

I mean, can you actually imagine filling 10 000 posts full of quality, well thought out responses? The burden this places on the individual poster is extremely onerous and I think unfair on those players who wish to monosyllabically grind their way into those max lvl forum titles.

Please please please Ex and LH, let us go back to loling and tl;dr'ing our way to the higher echelons of forum titles; any other scenario is clearly a nerf on post counts and an attack on the civil freedoms of democracy itself.

(Oh, and if someone else has already posted this, this thread was tl; dr)

It certainly seems that Eden has shelved the CoH RPG in favour of getting their own lines out. I can understand the why for doing this - they own the IP, so get more revenue from these titles - but it's not good that it's taken 2+ years to get to a stage where they are still releasing this title 'soon'.

You know the Eden guys Statesman, but please don't take 'soon' for an answer. The CoH RPG never has to go to a printers - they could sell the pdf through a number of channels and get a decent revenue from it. I'd buy it, mainly because I want to read the extra lore it contains.

It's a good idea.

... which totally fits with a snake eating its own tail.

;tinfoil hat

Nice article.

I know it's too late at this stage if they aren't in, but I'd love to see the Blood of the Black Stream brought into I11. They'd be very unhappy that someone is screwing with the Giant Circuit.

Also, there have already been hints that most zones are going to see at least minor changes as a result of I11.

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Cripes...

We're still on this?

Look, the decision has been made. The votes were tallied.



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This argument has been already been de-bunked in this very thread by Back Ally Brawler himself. There was no "vote", just a "poll". The devs took the poll into consideration, but also "other factors", which where not mentioned by name.

BTW: Shields won that poll, but was left out.

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For the record, Dual Blades won the offensive power poll while Shields won the defensive power poll. Willpower is being developed instead of Shields because Shields requires a lot more animation and development time.

There have been a lot of calls for a long time to develop a dual bladed melee weapon set. While I personally would have been more interested in seeing a Bo weapon set or a Street Fighting weapon set, I can understand why Dual Blades won... and it's not because ex-WoW players suddenly had the opportunity to impose their will on CoH/V.

It's because dual-wielding weapons is inherently cool.

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TPull has fallen into the whirlwind of a girlfriend. Whether he will return or survive remains to be seen.

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Well, the girlfriend is great, but my computer was taken over by viruses and such for the past three to four months, so that's the big reason why I've been away. Now I've got an upgrade, so look for some updated action coming soon to a forum near you!

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Oh, the number of times I've gone out with a girl and ended up with a virus.

... on my computer, I mean...

*cough*

What would be an awesome way of launching I11 would be for the maps to just change and suddenly heroes and villains would be in a new, familiar-yet-not world.

Of course, a lot of players would hate it, and new tutorials would be needed for both heroes and villains. So this probably won't happen.

It'd be awesome though.

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I belive the outbreak virus is actually a rikti mutagen, so you still need the rikti.

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There is mention of the Lost in that article, which possibly derails my idea a bit.

Or not - the Invasion doesn't have to happen for the Lost to appear on Earth Primal.

I didn't think that the Outbreak mutagen was Rikti-related though. I could be wrong.

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Outbreak is specifically mentioned to be a Rikti chemical agent of some kind in the tutorial missions. And your villain is mysteriously told by the voices coming from the Radio to steal it from the Lost and smuggle it into Paragon...

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Right you are - I remember the CoV arc now.

Other dual blade wielders:

Shatterstar (Marvel)
Punisher - I swear I've seen him pick up two knives (Marvel)
Zealot (Wildstorm)
Grifter - yeah, trained by Zealot (Wildstorm)
Warblade (Wildstorm)

Dual Blades may not be the most exciting powerset, but they certainly have their place in comic books.

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I belive the outbreak virus is actually a rikti mutagen, so you still need the rikti.

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There is mention of the Lost in that article, which possibly derails my idea a bit.

Or not - the Invasion doesn't have to happen for the Lost to appear on Earth Primal.

I didn't think that the Outbreak mutagen was Rikti-related though. I could be wrong.

Alternate theory:

Artic_Sun, standing on a chair, swinging a broom wildly at those who attempt to come close to his computer, screaming, "THIS IS THE ARTICLE I ALWAYS WANTED TO WRITE, AND NOW THERE'S NOTHING THAT CAN STOP ME! IT'S PUBLISHED, AND YOU CAN'T UNPUBLISH IT! MWAHAHAHA!"

To which Positron goes, "Looks like we'll have to push Villain EATs and the return of the 5th Column back another issue, folks."

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Hmm, alternate reality OR time travel paradox?

One thing first - spelling mistake: "Another speaker will be Tammy Miller, window of Doctor Greg Miller," - I can't believe a word she says, because I can see straight through her! ;-)

You know what I find really interesting? No mention of the Rikti. It might be an oversight, or not important, but the fact that it is the Outbreak phenomenon being memorialised here, not the typical Rikti Invasion stuff. I would think that a Rikti invasion AND a massive effect from Outbreak would have driven Paragon City to its knees.

So, what if, instead of this being a villain plot or caused by something evil, what if someone with deeply anti-Rikti sentiments stopped the Invasion from ever happening? PsychoChronoMetro-whatsis, time travel, blowing up the Rikti homeworld, stopping the cause of the Invasion - however they did it, the Rikti never invaded.

As a result, Paragon City heroes, who have been successful for years, are complacent when Outbreak occurs. Outbreak quickly spreads beyond its original borders and wreaks havoc because not enough new, eager heroes are there to deal with it.

I may have wandered far off the path there, but it struck me that without the Rikti [u]you[u], the hero, don't end up at Paragon City.