UberGuy
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Quote:Unless we have some way to tell that a particular invite is from a free player, it won't be reasonable to assume the person is being rude.Originally Posted by Tahliah
It is if you don't have access to tells. In fact, it's not just hard, it's impossible. They may want to, but they simply won't have access. The question here is how can we maintain a culture that says blind invites are "rude" when there is not /t option for free players?
I don't object to blind invites because I think they're rude. It's the other way around - I think they're rude because I object to blind invites, and know that today people don't have to make them blind. In the future, I still won't like blind invites, and I will still most likely reject them. I just won't be able to assume that the person who sent them could do any better. -
Quote:I'm not sure its the other posters that need to "unclinch". This is, by title and redname declaration, a discussion thread about an announced change. What people in this thread have said is "hey, if you are getting rid of bundled sales, we don't like that". Waiting until they announce that this is definitely happening before saying we wouldn't like them to do that would be pretty moronic. There's absolutely no reason we can't mention it now, in a context that's relevant.Originally Posted by DevilYouKnow
So unclinch and relax. All that is known for certain is that they are discontinuing the booster packs.
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Here are what look like Marauder's standard version powers - what he would use in Maria Jenkins' arc.
Here are the Incarnate Trial version powers.
I believe the version of Nova Fist that has a rather unclear effect is probably what splashes a warning on our screen that he's about to deliver the damaging version.
Edit: Whoops, got distracted and somehow came back with the notion you'd only asked for Marauder.
"Regular" Nightstar
iTrial Nightstar
"Regular" Siege
iTrial Siege -
I haven't yet had a character who I took Musculature on and kept it on. All the others I either wanted the extra endurance reduction (and sometimes +DR) of Cardiac or the extra Recharge and Heal from Spiritual.
While I would love Spiritual on more of my characters, many of them could not sustain a saturated attack chain with all their toggles, often due to sacrifices made in their build in other areas. For example, if you build for +defense set bonuses, you often sacrifice some of the endurance reduction slotting you might be able to achieve with other sets or with "frankenslotting". Taking Cardiac gave me the best of all those worlds - saturated (or nearly saturated) attack chains and high defense from set bonuses, and near-limitless endurance from the combination of set (or unique) bonuses and Cardiac's cost reductions.
On the characters who did not need Cardiac, I was often looking at builds which benefit from both more recharge and more heal slotting. Spiritual practically has "Good for Regeneration Characters" stamped on it, and an IO'd Regen Scrapper can have so much recovery available they should cause idle lightbulbs to turn on spontaneously as they pass nearby. I even took Spiritual on my Regen Stalker, who sadly doesn't have that bounty of recovery, and took Ageless Destiny to cover the difference. (Ageless + Spiritual is ... impressive levels of +recharge - but not something I was specifically aiming for.)
I like to try silly things like solo AVs or Rikti Pylons. Before the Alpha Slot, I was able to create characters with the DPS and theoretical survivability for this, but not the recovery. Musculature and Cardiac both improve your DPE (damage per endurance), but only Cardiac affects your EPS (endurance per second) burn rate. Because Cardiac moved my burn rate closer to my recovery rate, Cardiac gave most of my characters the ability to sustain extremely long (if not infinite) attack chain repetitions. Musculature would have made them DPS things down faster, but it did not move my DPS rate far enough further away from my foes' regen rate to decrease my time-to-victory enough to avoid running out of endurance first. So Cardiac was usually the better choice. (Cardiac sometimes had other pleasant side effects, like pushing my BS/Inv Scrapper to the Scrapper L/S damage cap, or giving all my Dark Miasma characters +20% on their blast range.) -
[QUOTE=MaestroMavius;3829649]Quote:a) I don't see what makes you think anything is going to change. The people who do what you don't like now have absolutely no new motivation to act differently once CoH:F arrives.Originally Posted by Daemodand
Good riddance to this very stupid piece of this game's culture. "You invited me to a team in a multiplayer game! How rude!" always struck me as very WTF. I do put teams together when the mood strikes, and this cultural quirk always made it much more work than it had to be. Just join the dern group, if you're not into what we're doing, just say so and part ways amicably. It isn't hard. With this aspect of the game's culture dead or curtailed, I just might put teams together more often rather than soloing so much.
b) What makes you so special that it's OK for you to shift the responsibility to communicate onto those you invite, anyway? If you can't be bothered to communicate initially, why should they be bothered to accept? -
Quote:The Vahz are pretty bad. Dr. Vahz himself is one of those villains who thinks he's remaking a flawed world in a better way. Viewed on a macroscopic scale, that might sound good, but it's not so hot for the people whose organs his followers chop out in a back alley.Originally Posted by FlashToo
Well, like I mentioned before, there's always Doctor Vazhilok. Also, several of the Resistance Crusader contacts, even if they're not quite as "main." Hatchet's as bad as Westin Phipps.
I find it hard, conceptually, to see villains who are worse than the CoT or the Banished Pantheon cultists.
The CoT regularly cast out the souls of ordinary folks to take over their bodies. In game lore, this is described as the souls being cast into an infinite and awful void, with strong implications that they will never be recovered. This is a kind of death beyond death, an implicit hell of eternal aloneness in an eternal void. As callous as Vahzilok and his minions may be to kill people on the street for their organs, even they don't consign people's souls to such a fate - they "just" kill you.
The Banished Pantheon are either worse or as bad, depending on what is supposed to happen to people they sacrifice to their dark gods. They worship nihilistic beings who's sole interest in the mortal world seems to be the consuming of souls and/or other magic. As far as I know, we don't get a lot of detail about what happens to sacrificed souls, but we do know the Pantheon cultists and their zombies make a lot of noise about their gods' hunger, feeding and so forth. That leaves a lot to the imagination, and none of it is very good.
Few of the game's villains compete with the sheer depth of evil willing doing such things suggests. They may compete with or exceed either the CoT or the BP on sheer scale of suffering they cause by virtue of number of people affected. There are companies that advertise in the Rogue Isles for corpse disposal - life there for mundane or low-ranking folk cannot possibly be pleasant. But for most people, if they die at the hands of these villains, even if they die badly, at least they "only" die. Their souls aren't consigned to eternal damnation or possible annihilation on top of it. -
Quote:This.Originally Posted by Agahnim
I would prefer my villains to be glamorous. I have to play them after all.
Even if I give my villains some sort of "defect", often as a result of past battle injury or perhaps a side effect of the event in which they gained their superhuman powers, they tend to be "glamorous" despite it.
For those probably few readers who are familiar with the "StrikeForce: Morituri" comic series from DC, and in particular its follow-up miniseries, "Electric Undertow", I liken my CoH/V supers to folks who have undergone the "M Process". The events that make them into superhumans don't just give them powers, but also magnify their physical and/or personality traits.
Most of my villains are mercenary, and they are significantly, but not utterly amoral. They fit the "rogue" image presented via GR pretty well, and I have left most of them with the Rogue alignment, despite some game mechanical or reward disadvantages of doing so. (It annoys me that those disadvantages exist.) Most would not harm bystanders except by accident, though they would be less remorseful than a truly good person. Most of my villains would take no joy in causing people pain, unless it was for revenge, which they would only seek out for significant affronts.
Honestly, I like the way Rogues are depicted in CoH, as sort of "glamorous villains" much more than I like how Vigilantes are depicted, which comes across as "willing to do anything in the name of inflicting 'justice'". But I prefer either to a "true" villain. I don't want to play someone who is truly evil and who delights in delivering suffering. Someone who is doing bad things for what they think is the right reason I could manage - it's basically a Vigilante who is totally past the thin blue line. -
Quote:I don't have any interest in the community maintaining a "tradition" of looking down its collective nose at PuGs. That said, I will almost certainly continue to avoid PuGs and ignrore blind tells/invites.Originally Posted by MaestroMavius
IF we don't alter certain 'Paragon traditions' then we will be in for a world of misery. If we keep treating blind invites the same as tradition suggests it's going to be a very un-fun enviroment for the new blood. We have to adapt, such is life. I'm not bemoaning that, just looking for other Meta things that could/should be affected.
I'm not a mean person. I do actually enjoy helping people. However, I am not in a mood to help people all the time. I am not in a mood to socialize all the time. Playing at the pace and efficiency that many PuGs play at isn't what I enjoy, and so I tend not to join them. Forming and then maintaining my own PuG teams is sometimes stressful, and so I tend not to form them unless I am forming them from people I know and trust not to stress me. Ultimately, I'm going to do what is fun for me, and PuGs are unfun for me often enough that they aren't my preferred way to play.
If the CoH community is made up of enough people that are not like me, then that's great for the new folks - they'll have plenty of veterans willing to play with them. But if not, I know I'm not going to ask people to do things they think are unfun out of some sense of obligation to bettering the community. This is a videogame - something we all do to relax. If PuG play is fun and relaxing for (the generic) you, then rock on. If it's not ... I just see that as the shakes. -
It is most gratifying that your enthusiasm for this thread continues unabated. As a token of our appreciation, we hope you will enjoy the two thermonuclear missiles we've just sent to converge with your original post. To ensure ongoing quality of service, the resulting flames may be monitored for training purposes. Thank you.
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If you're discontinuing the current SKUs, I can understand that. If you mean bundled sales of thematically linked items are never going to be available again, I don't like that. Like others here, I also don't like the implication that no one will be able to get a "bulk discount" for buying things in bundles. The option to buy a-la-carte is fantastic. Having no choice but to buy everything a-la-carte is obnoxious.
McDonald's sells all their sandwiches, drinks and side orders as individual items. They still sell standard meal packages, and buying those is cheaper than buying all the component items individually. MMOs are not fast food restaurants, but I still think there's value in the model. -
My DM/Regen is my 3rd Scrapper*, my 2nd 50, my badge collector. I created her right before Issue 2 came out. She remains one of my most-played characters, closing on 2000 hours played. Like yours, mine is +3, with Very Rare incarnate powers slotted in all but Lore.
* My 1st two characters ever were Scrappers, the first being created during Pre-Release and the 2nd being created during the 1st month that CoH was live. -
Quote:I thought of one of these, though I'm not sure I'd actually play it. Sadly, on my home server the name "Bullet Time" is already taken.Originally Posted by Kinrad
I'm planning on Dual Pistols / Time Manipulation corruptor.
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Quote:I very rarely activate Instant Healing. I rely primarily on my click heals, MoG, and of course my passive regen.Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Since my moderate defense and high regen is what I rely on for most normal missions, getting my regeneration debuffed to nothing is a severe problem for me.
A single 500% -regen basically turns off my regen. Multiples mean I can't use Instant Healing. But since I don't rely on Instant Healing normally, that's not (usually) a big deal for me. The exception of course would be one of those (uncommon) times when I actually activated Instant Healing thinking it would help me and it gets turned off. Usually (but not always!) I know when something is around that's going to eat my +regen for lunch, so I tend not to expect IH when I'm going to lose it.
I think all my Regens have between 70% and 75% +recharge not counting Hasten, plus I use Core Spiritual for my Alpha on all of them.
I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just trying to explain how things work for my builds, which are based on high +Rech, moderate positional +def (but pretty high +def for a non-sword Regen), and moderately high +regen. (And of course, once I could get it, Shadow Meld. I didn't change much else when I got it, though.) -
Heh.
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I haven't edited out anything in response to you. The only edit you elicited was that I had changed "do you have any idea" to "do you realize", and I put back the more snarky wording because you had already quoted it.
Edit: FWIW, link to screenshot of post edit history - current versus original. If there's another post you're referring to, I don't see where any of my post edit dates line up with the possibility I edited them in response to you. -
Quote:I am confused as to why you feel my posting a dissenting opinion is me mounting a "high horse". I justify my comment very simply - Shard_Warrior's little jab there attacks the integrity of the poster and not the statements the posters makes.Originally Posted by Miss_Freeze_NA
Having spent the better part of the past few pages adamantly trying to convince people with a dissenting opinion from yours that they're somehow not built right or aren't playing right, I'm at a loss to see how you can justify your comment? Feel free to dismount your high horse at any time.
I've been responding with information that attempts to rebut factual assertions someone else is making. My only comment regarding Shard_Warrior as an individual was the response you seem to have such a hard time putting in context, and you'll notice I couched it in terms of "it makes you look like", leaving quite open the possibility that that's not what Shard intended. Nothing about that should come across as me having an axe of my own to grind here, beyond a distaste for misinformation. You'll find most posters here will respond to people posting incorrect information about a powerset they know well, especially if they like it.
I don't begrudge Shard_Warrior disliking playing Regen. I just want to make sure that the dislike doesn't breed attempts at justification that wander past reasonable interpretation of facts. I don't accuse Shard of trying to do that, but the comment about "the other side can't admit it" doesn't do much for the sense of integrity involved.
As for my early responses in this thread to Diesel Punk, his claims about Regen's performance absolutely require either that he's flat out lying, or that he doesn't know how to play it in a way to avoid the disastrous results he describes. I don't assume he's lying, so I assume he doesn't know how to play the powerset well. I have no qualms about saying that. -
Do you have any idea how much that sort of insinuation just ends up making you look like you have an axe to grind with people who are don't share your distaste for the Regen powerset?
Whether or not the IDF regularly severely debuff your regen (and I steadfastly maintain they do not), that still does nothing for the argument that strong -regen effects makes a Regen feel gimp. If that's the case for someone, that someone has built their Regen poorly. Does having your Regen shut off (or severely reduced) cause a problem? Of course it does. It's not something you can ignore completely. However, my experience in play all across the level 50 spectrum says it's not something that regularly kills a Regen for someone who knows what they're doing. Having your recharge crushed is far more likely to do so. My main objection to your observation about debuffs from Praetorean mobs being why Regen feels weak in the Incarnate game (which I disagree with more broadly) is the express inclusion of Regen debuffs as a justification for your position. Recharge debuffs I disagree with less strongly.
For my Regens, noticeable recharge debuffs tend to be on the order of 50% and up. Dangerous debuffs are on the order of 100% and up. I don't consider the -recharge debuffs from most IDF spawns severe, but they can definitely be noticeable. Sometimes they get severe if the spawn contains too much of the same catagories of critters. A spawn of all Seers or non-boss WarWorks can debuff your recharge pretty badly. Fortunately, that doesn't happen all that often, because there are other mobs the spawn generator tends to mix in. The notable exception is in the Tin Mage TF, where the WarWorks apply crushing -recharge stacking.
For me, the primary threats that affect a Regen in the Incarnate end game are the potential for extremely high burst damage. A well-played Regen is about reaction time and planning using your heals. If there are high odds of sudden, unexpected burst damage, this increases the risk that leaving yourself meaningfully below max HP will result in sudden defeat. Yet using your heals early to keep your HP (and bonus HP) topped off means you don't have those heals in reserve for when the big hits do come.
Edit: I wanted to add this to the original post, but I couldn't check it since the servers were down.
While time played is not directly correlated with skill accumulated, I like to think that my posting history (things people have seen me say, not my post count) indicate I know how to play (and build) a decent Regen, and I have a lot of play time to back up the Regen observations I make. I have three level 50 Regens.
- Dark Melee/Regen/Soul Scrapper: 1937 patrol hours. 42 Incarnate trials run
- Martial Arts/Regen/Soul Stalker: 1130 patrol hours. 64 Incarnate trials run
- Dual Blades/Regen/(None) Scrapper: 1029 patrol hours. 44 Incarnate trials run
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Quote:A fair point. I'll mention though that I'm very bad about not using my inspirations unless I know that dying will be detrimental to the overall team or league goal, like badge runs, dying as a team lead on a newbie League, etc.Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Well, I don't die often in the trials on my blaster either, and that's usually due to smart inspiration usage (and actually paying attention, which interestingly seems to happen more often on Lambdas than BAFs). If there are enough insps in the world to keep my blaster alive, there certainly are enough to keep a well-built regen alive. That doesn't specifically speak to the question of whether Regen is as strong as the other sets in the trials, just that it can be strong enough to succeed which is a somewhat different statement.
I make a point of trying to use inspirations as little as possible because I want to understand just what my build can survive on its own. That has a side effect, though, in which I effectively have trained myself not to think to use them. That wasn't my goal, but it's more or less how it's turned out. Most of the time when I do die, if I'd use some inspirations, I wouldn't have. -
Quote:I explicitly pointed out that several (most) of my non-Regen characters who go on iTrials aren't even softcapped to non-Incarnate foes. None of them have regen debuff resistance. They do get hit on iTrials. The best of them have on the order of 250-300% passive regen, and several have a lot less. I can't remember a time when one of them had an iTrial caused their regen monitor to go red.Originally Posted by Shard_Warrior
Keep in mind, your build is most likely far better than what the average person may have.
If my characters who absolutely are going to be hit dont have as much regen as a Regen aren't suffering a lot of -regen, then it simply isn't sensible to conclude that the same regen debuffs are likely to be a high-threat risk for my Regens.
(Not including Barrier, most of my melee characters - who are Scrappers, Brutes, Stalkers and a Widow - max out at 35-40% passive defense to either the Melee position or L/S damage, and then have 25-30% to the other positions or damage types, excluding Psi. The only character of mine with Incarnate-level softcapped defenses all around is my Widow.) -
What Werner said. I'm monitoring it. I don't mean "I don't notice the effect of having my regen floored." I mean "I don't see my regen being being floored." And these non-Regens aren't all characters who are all running around defense softcapped to the -regen effects we're discussing, either.
If the IDF can't get the Regen rate of a non-Regen to go red, why would it be particularly troublesome for a Regen with a much higher regen rate?
Note I don't claim it has zero impact. I just don't see it as something that dominates my performance on my actual Regens. I notice the -regen from Malta and CoT Death Mages, on Regens and everyone else. IDF? Not even on my radar of things they do that put me in danger. -
Quote:I don't, and there's a pretty simple reason. I don't notice any of those -regen effects on my non regen characters. I monitor my regen rate on all of my melees, and I have only rarely seen my regen rate get floored by IDF, even on non-Regens who have zero regen debuff resistance.Originally Posted by Shard_Warrior
Personally, I think this is why Regen feels gimped in comparison on the higher end iTrials.
I do get severely recharge debuffed by IDF on occasion, but it's not terribly common compared to some foes. (Knives of Artemis and Arachnos come to mind.) The exception is when you get all WarWorks, all the time, like in the Tin Mage TF. Everyone notices the -recharge big spawns of WarWorks cause. I've never had a problem with severe -recharge from mixed spawns of them, though, like you see on the Lambda or Keyes trials. On occasion a spawn that's heavy with Seers causes problems.
I recently ran some IDF-rich tips on one of my Regens at +4/x6, and -recharge was much less of an issue than -def, high burst damage and -end/-recovery. Fighting IDF reminds me a lot of fighting Arachnos, with the notable debuffs shifted around and more focus on energy damage. I really wouldn't particularly fear them at all if not for Reveal Weakness from the Seers (an autohit defense/DR debuff), Terrorize from the Seer bosses, and the severe end sapping from the Heavy Commanders and their LT bretheren (the guys with the missile-launching backpacks). Their ability of Seer bosses to terrorize gets an honorable mention as something most of my Scrappers deal with poorly.
Edit: Oh, I recall that some of the Praetorean Clockwork actually have some pretty severe regen debuffs in them. We don't meet that many of them outside of the Apex TF and a few missions (like the Halloween tip mission) though. -
At the very least some of the IDF Seers have Drain Psyche. It mostly hammers my end, though, not my regen. At least when I'm playing a Regen.
I think Mask of Vitiation has -Regen in it, but honestly, that's the last thing I worry about when that's on me. -
Quote:They floor my regen at 0% regularly. The bosses do it all the time. The LTs do it sometimes.Originally Posted by Arcanaville
You know, I was thinking about this and I decided to go looking for -1000% regen debuffs. The first place I looked was on Malta Hercs because I remember when they actually got -regen. Do they still have it? 'Cause I'm not sure they do now.
CoT Death Mages are, I believe, -1000%.
There's a pretty mean -regen from Longbow Spec Ops grenades, but one won't floor me.
Edit:
Here you go. 30% chance of mag -100, which I actually read as -10,000%.
Here's the Kronos version. That's only mag -1 (-100%), but if you scroll down, the Quad version is mag -100 again.
Death Mages have -500% in Twilight Grasp. -
Quote:Don't get me wrong for responding to this - I'm not remotely on any sort of crusade to get Regen buffed "for the common man". But I wanted to point out that this type of concern didn't stop the devs from buffing the (possibly poor) analogy AT I mentioned - Blasters. There were people, especially here on the forums, who had firm conviction that there was nothing wrong with Blasters, because they played them just fine, thank you. But the Devs' data mining showed that there was a broad performance issue for Blasters in terms of leveling speed attributed to debt received. So the AT got buffs, and those players who were just fine, thank you, probably got even better. (There was some lateral movement in how Defiance worked, so it's not totally clear that strong Blaster players came out ahead with the change, depending on how they were leveraging old Defiance.)Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Sure, a buff would help the average player who doesn't perform very well with Regen. But any buff that makes the set better for them would make it overpowered in the hands of the payers who already do well with it.
As Werner mentioned, any buffs to Regen on such a basis, assuming the basis was valid, should be based on similar analysis of performance data for Regens compared to other powersets. Without that, the idea Regen doesn't work well for Joe Super is just hair-brained speculation. -
Yeah. People need to clearly delineate objections to how something plays to boundaries on how it performs.
I don't buy into the argument that people using things like Parry or Shadow Meld are doing anything more obtuse with the Regen powerset to make it survivable than people who are using +defense pool powers, Aid Self or various set bonuses to make powersets like Shields, Willpower or even SR highly survivable - especially when running without ally buffs in Incarnate content. Regen may rely more heavily on strong buffs than other sets to reach high levels of performance, and I certainly think Parry/DA and Shadow Meld are strong powers. That's natural, because many of Regen's core powers provide HP recovery - a linearly stacking survival mechanism. Layer some good non-linear benefits on it, though, and that scales extremely well.
Regen may well be to Scrapper powersets what Blasters were (are) to ATs - something that can perform very well in the right hands but may not do well averaged across the player base. In that view, it might warrant a buff. I am very much not in a good position to judge that; not only am I very unlikely to be an "average" player, I quite likely don't even team with them often, either.
Regen is probably my favorite survival powerset. I prefer the clicky playstyle - when I survive something, I feel like it was more because of my choices and reactions, and less because the RNG smiled on me. I lean towards other mitigation powersets with clicky aspects, like Firey Aura, and after those, I prefer powersets that at least benefits from tactical positioning - Invul, WP and Shields. SR is on the bottom of my preferences. It's fantastic at avoiding things ... and very little of it has anything to do with how I play.