TwoHeadedBoy

That doesn't make the car any less awesome though.

Exactly, because the level 20 can't compete.
That's true, and if for some reason you enjoy going backwards (personally I play to max level for a reason. I like it there.) you can always make a second build.

The point is that my point stands. There is an ultimate build. You just seem to be saying that not all people want to or can afford to be ultimate. Just because you don't want the best thing doesn't make it any less the best thing. Y'know?

No comment.
That's like saying, "Ferrari's aren't the best cars because I don't know how to drive one."

Or, "A Toyota might be better for you since you can't afford a Ferrari." That doesn't mean that Toyota's are ever better than Ferrari's, it just means that some people need to settle for a less effective product.
I don't know. Let's measure the performance gap between another build at level 20 and a well played, THB approved human build at level 50. I'm pretty sure the level 50 build will be better. Level 50 is the highest level, level 50 builds can do the best things, and the best way to play at level 50 is by following my soon to be announced foolproof human form stratagem (alright, 'fool proof' might be a bit of an overstatement. But the responsibility for that lies with the fools.)

Psst.. you might be playing the wrong variety of Kheld.

You're also selfish.

I love Joe's idea too- I would just like to look at the assumed values of our current self survivability (resistance/absorb/whatever it is) and take 25% away from it, in order to give 25% of the original inherent buff (again, survivability side only) to all of our teammates and 50% of the original value to ourselves, because, let's face it- Khelds aren't exactly hurting for survivability. We are hurting in team contribution though, at least on the PB side, and on the side of people like Microcosm who use their Warshades for nothing but damage.

Hahaha, that's funny as hell. What are you doing dood? Get online

That's true in a general sense, but the performance gap between an unmired Warshade and a Peacebringer vs. a mire'd Warshade and a Peacebringer is not the same. Let me pull up my Kheld builds to illustrate my point- I'm going to do this simply and assume max buff for inner light at all times, so if anything these numbers will be weighted towards the PB.

With one mire target, my Warshade's current build will do 1168.8/8.052 for 145.16+57.23/2 (OD) for a total of 173.77 DPS (without fluffies.)

At maxed inner light, an equal budget PB will do 800.9/4.356 for 183.86 DPS.


So the PB beats the single target Mire'd Warshade (without any pets) by 10.09 DPS. Again, that's assuming max +dmg from IL the whole time, which is not how it actually works.

Now, my Warshade with a saturated Mire (again, still not counting pets) will do 1533.9/8.052 for 190.50+65.37/2 (OD) for a total of 223.185 DPS.

Where the PB beats out a single Mire targeted Warshade by ~10 DPS, a fuully Mired Warshade beats out a PB by 39.325 DPS. I'm sure you can see the disparity, and once again, these rough calcs heavily favored the PB.


Note: None of these calcs take -res procs into account, but my WS has a FOTG in OD and my PB has an achilles in all his ST attacks- They add *roughly* the same to each build, maybe slightly more for the PB, but not enough imo to close the gap. And if we can ignore fluffies, we can certainly ignore -res procs.

Second edit- Neither of the builds I used for this use Assault, Musculature or Hybrid. It stands to reason that if we add in all of the above for both builds though, the results would be the same, comparison wise.

First, absorb sounds neat, but in my opinion if we took your idea of +absorb and combined it with my earlier idea, it'd serve the AT's best; I originally proposed +def instead, but I can see how that'd be pretty OP, and absorb is probably a better mechanic to use. Still though, if we look at what the +absorb totals would be if it functioned the same way as our +resist does currently and took maybe, 50% of that total and gave it to the Kheld, and 25% of it to the team mates, that would be better. Maybe this would be best only for Peacebringers from a thematic perspective, but I'm proposing that it work the same way on Warshades for simplicity. Obviously which AT's gave +res and +dmg would still be different per each AT.
I absolutely like your proc idea in lieu of +dmg though.

This is all I see when you talk now

We're doing Manti tonight, probably around 8 est if you wanna join.

Maybe there's a language barrier or something, but I don't even understand what ND is talking about at this point, and I'm not even saying this to be mean. I feel like she is simply unable to make herself understood, because everything you've said has made perfect sense to me.

ND, would you be willing to calmly, politely (and preferably concisely) restate exactly what it is you are talking about? Here are some questions to help you along the way:

1.) Do you believe that fluffies are underperforming because they can't withstand a 54x8 onslaught, even though no pets (except Phantom Army) could do so reliably?

2.) Do you believe that because of this extreme example, fluffies are automatically irrelevant as a valid means of AOE damage?

3.) Do you think it's unreasonable that low HP pets with no real defense or resistance are apt to die when their owner is past the aggro cap at max difficulty settings?


Anything else you'd like to add to make exactly what you're talking about clearly understood would also be appreciated.


AIB farms on his Warshade all the time. I'm sure Dechs could too if he felt so inclined and someone asked him to, his Warshade is built for spawn melting.

Yeah but the double mire'd Nova Blasts are what makes tri form so good at AOE, it's the best AOE available to Warshades. Quasar helps too, and obviously fluffies if you can keep them alive. That's pretty hard to do on a farm map though like Stone said, and to be fair, also like Stone has already said, any type of pet is going to struggle to survive on a farm map, Lore pets included.

I'm honestly not familiar enough with that mechanic having never played anything that used it, so I can't say for sure whether or not I think it'd be a good idea.

Hahaha. What are you up to dude? Me and Stone are doing a Citadel in a bit.

Yeah I don't know how farming got brought into it, I specifically mentioned in the post that got ND to start talking about farming that Warshades are not a farming AT. I think what she's saying is that the life expectancy of EE's in a farming situation makes them unreliable damage output, but in the reality of the game which is what Stone has been saying, during normal content they are alive and well quite a bit of the time. The farming argument you're seeing me participate in is completely irrelevant to Warshades and not even remotely on topic, but ND brought it up and I engaged her. My bad on that one.

Uh? I made it clear ahead of time that I don't ever clear entire caves when I farm, you said yourself after I linked you to the post that you "missed" it. Derp. I still obliged and did it anyways, because you put me in a position where you said, "I'm going first," and did it your way- Which I'm not saying wasn't impressive, because it was- And then left me in a position where I felt pressured to exactly what you did. chasing down runners without a taunt aura slows down reward rates exponentially. I had things scattering all over the place after I hit ROA. When I farm on my Blasters I hit the bulk and move on to the next group. Most people I know farm like that, even some Brutes. The only reason why anyone even uses patrol farms is because ambushes got nerfed and patrols are the next best option for being surrounded by enemies past the aggro cap.

We talked about doing 1-50 PL time comparisons but I ended up not playing COH for a bit and since I started playing more regularly it hasn't been discussed. Not that any of this is even remotely relevant to Warshades. Did you not see me lead off with 'Warshades aren't the best farmers?' I'm not sure exactly what you're arguing against there, but I don't think it's anything I've said.

And if "my friend can vouch" is a currency now, feel free to ask Stone, AIB, Microcosm and Speedy (Bionut on the forums I think?) how well my Blasters can PL.

Look around. The stuff that was too much for them back then isn't too much for them anymore. I'm pretty sure they'll figure out a way to do just about everything eventually, if enough people want it done.

Derp, anything without a taunt aura would struggle to nitpick farm like that. The mandate of 'must chase down everything' is TERRIBLE for reward rates. I only followed that mandate because I was basically backed into a corner about it.

It's funny that I just pieced together your preferred style of nitpick farming is very similar to your preferred style of nitpick posting. >.>

Warshades aren't suited for farming. At their very best, sure, Warshades CAN farm, but not at top rate speeds. Warshades at their best are Tank/Dominator hybrids, especially after hybrid came out (see what I did there? Derp) with its nice 50% of the time taunt aura. That with provoke makes Warshades able to leverage their survivability (believe it or not, OD does hold aggro a bit on its own too) and the controls are leveraged (Inky/Emanation/Unchain) to provide great aggro a.) management b.) control; Alpha strike soaking (hardcapped resistance to everything, 32.5% defense to all positions, and an endless supply of HP/End from Stygian Circle? Yup!) and disarming of enemies all at once. The damage is nice too, but for top notch Warshades it's really just a bonus. While everything is either stumbling around drunk or aggroed to the Warshade, thus, *generally* protecting all team mates, the Warshade is still pumping out enough ST to solo a level 54 AV, and respectable AOE between Knockdown Dark Detonation, Unchain Essence, Judgement, Mire, Orbiting Death and 3 fluffies pwning things. Oh, right, and there are the team mates too. They buff your damage just by being on your team and letting you carry them.

Global friends. Don't patronize me or I'll delete you.

Hahaha, holy ****, that guy. You're my hero.



Doom you just came back after a bit too, why don't you get your own thread?