TwoHeadedBoy
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Posts
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Quote:Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
That doesn't work, and not for any mechanical reason.
If the option to turn knockback off exists, it will become a "requirement" for teaming to turn it off.
That's a pretty subjective (and negative) view to have on the subject, Dechs... :/
If you're on a team full of ranged characters, for example, the extra mitigation from KB would be desirable.
If you're playing with people you team with often, or people who understand that KB can be used effectively, it won't be an issue.
edit: Not to mention, in a lot of situations it would be beneficial to you and your team to turn KB off. Energy blast AoE's could be used more freely, for example. But I don't think this is a point that really even needs to be sold...
If you're playing with the average PUG, sure someone might complain. But ultimately it is a personal choice that anyone playing a set with KB would have the option to make.
If you find yourself constantly being pestered to turn it off, even if you're in a teaming situation where you feel you could use it effectively, you're probably teaming with the wrong people. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Angelxman81
We getting more stuff than before, so I dont care if I have to spend points from my monthly suscription or even extra money.
Also we can set priorities, so I can wait a bit for Beam riffle, but will purchase Street justice and Titan weapons on day one.
In the past we had to wait sometimes more than 1 year with no new powersets added, now we gonna get plenty, same for consumibles, and costume pieces.
To me this is the future, and how MMO will work from now.
Its a win win feature for everybody.
This is a train of thought that makes me really uncomfortable... To a point where I thought of another metaphor!
Sometimes when you go to the bank, they'll give you a free key chain, or a free lollipop or something.
It's a pretty nice little courtesy to say "Hey, thanks for using our bank. We appreciate it."
Maybe they just started doing this, and they sent out a letter saying it was a new program they were implementing because they were making some changes to their branches and they wanted to keep their current patrons feeling appreciated.
So all of a sudden your bank starts charging more for ATM usage than they used to, but it's a smaller value than they paid to make all those lollipops and key chains, are you going to say "...Well it's ok they're charging more for this than they were in the past, because I use this key chain every day and I can get a lollipop whenever I want, so I don't mind paying a bit more for the ATM."
No, you're probably not going to say that at all.
You're probably going to be pretty ticked off and switch banks.
The same logic applies here. -
Quote:Don't forget the Tip and Incarnate Systems can't be accessed without Going Rogue- Two things that I would consider extremely valuable, especially under the new microtransaction model which is going to essentially be a nickel-and-diming model... Which I consider fair to a degree. I say feel free to nickel and dime people who aren't paying the same monthly fee many of us have been maintaining and will continue to maintain... But I really hope that this absurd inflation for actual subscribers is not something that carries over in the live version of Freedom...Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
One doesn't need to determine the exact percentage of anything in Going Rogue. Even if you assume all Going Rogue brought us was powersets, they still cost less than what they're being sold for now. That's without counting extra zones, extra stories, extra game systems, extra costume sand more. If Going Rogue were nothing but powersets, we still paid less for them than what they are being sold for now.
What I personally would like to see is a 50% less cost on all items that can be purchased with paragon points for VIP players. I don't think free points should be taken into account as I've already said in this thread--- When you give someone something for free, you don't hold it over their heads.
Especially for things like new powersets that us VIP will not be getting as part of our subscription, a reduced rate is definitely in order but I really believe it should apply to everything in the Paragon Market. -
Quote:That's why i also tried to equate the value of other things in GR based on the information we have about the monetary value of other parts under the Freedom Model..Originally Posted by MaestroMavius
From my point of view, it's impossible to say $10 is overcharging for powersets as we have no reference to use. If we'd been buying sets in the past we could look to that as a 'baseline' but we haven't.
The closest thing we can get to buying sets would be the expansions and as pointed out that just won't work. Expansions come with far too much content to try and determine what 0.0001% of the purchase = powers sets. All the fancy math at Arcana's disposal can't create a price point for Kinetic melee when taken apart from GR. Not yet anyways.
Please read my earlier post to see the figures I worked out- I believe they are fair. Especially the base point that even if GR included nothing but those 4 powersets, they still cost $2.50 less each... That's not even taking into account the value of Praetoria, the tip system, or the Incarnate system.
The way I worked out the double the price figure was that I'm sure the Incarnate system will cost at least $10.00 to unlock for non VIP players.
Also, the fact that Demon Summoning was a Mastermind set, part of an AT that will also presumably cost at least $10.00 to unlock.....
For me, the most logical way to figure out the monetary value of powersets was to take into account the last time we had to pay for them (Going Rogue) and use the new microsransaction model to fairly guesstimate the value of other things included with them (I was honestly probably giving them the benefit of the doubt and lowballing/excluding things) and compare it to the $30.00 launch price of GR. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Bloodspeaker
For a WS, might work to add a taunt component to Sunless Mire, with a duration equal to the other effects. Gives some aggro management, without overshadowing Tankers.
Meh, the Dwarf forms need it most... Of course, my Warshade is capable of holding +4x8 aggro in Nova and Human form, but we have to keep in mind that not all Warshades are created equal and if a taunt aura is put anywhere but the default 'tanking' form it might make it difficult for new players/old players rolling first time Khelds to become accustomed to the AT's. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Ossuary
Do we know this for sure? It is possible that Khelds could either get their own version, or the devs are finally planning to open up the Flight and Teleport pools to both Khelds.
Personally, I'd rather have our own version. I like my WS' TP. I would like the long range to look the same.
First of all, the one I'm REALLY stoked for is the instant recharge option from the speed pool...
Every now and then, my Warshade dies. Even less often, he's mid-Eclipse when that happens- Either due to lots of debuffs, overwhelming -end, or plain old human error...
Now, my stygian return is up WAY more then I use it... That means I can pretty easily rez myself whenever I want. I only need to when I somehow bite off more than I can chew (heh...)
With this new addition, it means that whenever these rarest of circumstances occur, not only can I get up, be invincible and phase if I need to... But I can ALSO instantly recharge eclipse. My mires and nuke will instantly recharge too for good measure.
But,anyways...
I think PB's and WS's should get access to the new "uber" power for each set respectively.... Mostly I would like my PB to be able to zone teleport, but don't forget that the Dark Nova could become a viable travel power with the new flight speed boost if it's allowed. -
Just let the bird turn it off if you want him to, you guys.
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Quote:Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
The last time the devs tweaked how much universal storage we could have was in bases where they gutted salvage bins and reduced our storage capacity from 2,500 per bin to 30 per bin.
There is no way in hell the devs would ever give us a global storage even remotely close to what we currently have.
Using badges, vet reward, and temp powers each character can carry roughly
Inspiration slots - 20
Invention Salvage slots - 65
Recipe Slots - 25
CH Transaction slots - 22 which can hold stacks of 10 recipes and salvage for a total of 220
Vault - 50
Email - 20 global slots
So if you multiply those number by the number of characters slots we can have on an account when Freedom launches (16 servers)
VIP Account (192-576 characters)
Inspiration slots - 3,840/11,520
Invention Salvage slots - 12,480/37,440
Recipe Slots - 4,800/14,400
CH Transaction slots - 4,224/12,672 (then in stacks of 10) 42,240/126,720
Vault - 9,600/28,800
So no thank you to any "global storage" idea. I much prefer a little extra work verses having my ability to store tens of thousands of items castrated.
What....?
I'm not implying any storage should be 'removed' from you. This is assuming bases continue to function as they do already- Something I really don't know much about, but it's irrelevant anyways.
I didn't mention inspirations at any point for a reason... They are not a part of my suggestion as they can be abused very easily if made global. They seem fine as-is.
I'm talking about character inf cap, recipe cap, and (less importantly) enhancement cap.
How many times have you had to switch to an alt at the market because you hit a billion inf claiming? For me, way too many.
How many times have you been on a TF in the heat of some heavy action only to notice that your recipe inventory was full? For me, way too many.
We're going to get hit with crappy SO drops that we don't want regardless, I guess.. But it's not like Purple enhancements drop crafted.
It just comes down to what everyone does anyways. We transfer inf and recipes between our alts. The dev's enable it... They might as well just make it convenient. Everyone is going to keep doing it anyways. -
Quote:This is why I've been trying to take everything into account in terms of the last time we were charged for sets.Originally Posted by MaestroMavius
Since you seem to be more concerned with the monetary value of powersets in general as opposed to the issue of selling them I feel I should point something out.
The monetary value of powersets isn't something we can calculate as it isn't something we've ever seen before. Including expansions as they were far more than just powersets.
I'm assuming GR originally sold for $30.00 and included 4 new sets.
If you read my OP, that means we are still being charged $2.50 more per powerset.
I'm using the monetary values that COH is using in order to keep this fair...
That's not counting the Incarnate System- Also part of GR which is Pay to Unlock, thus lowering the last release price of powersets for sale even further...
Not to mention my last post when I reference the value the Devs have assigned for Masterminds.
Sure, I guess if that's how you feel.... Personally I'm just trying to figure this out based on the prices we have been charged in the past since according to the Dev's, the Freedom Model is meant to give the paying subscribers more bang for their buck, not suddenly inflate costs.Quote:Quite bluntly, the $ value of powersets is whatever the Dev's feel like/can get away with charging. If they start releasing sets at $10 a pop and then a year from now release a set that took a bit more effort and charge $15 that's perfectly reasonable. They determine the price of the product. We determine it's 'Value' by choosing to purchase it or not.
Quote:As far as the sets being 'More than double' in cost? The tradeoff there is that these sets never would've made it past the drawing board otherwise.
If charging a bit more per set means we get 6 new ones this year as oppossed to 0 then it's worth it (to me).
That's your personal view on the matter and you're welcome to it-- The point of this thread was an objective discussion on the value of powersets. -
Quote:This is why I used the price of $30.00 for the entire GR expansion to do the math in my original post.. Even using that, we are being told the these new sets will cost us double what we paid for the last batch of new sets (which seemed the most logical reference point.)Originally Posted by Dr_Darkspeed
The monetary value of the powersets (at Compared to buying Going Rogue on a sale for $10? The powersets are very expensive.
Another thing to take into account here is that one of the powersets included in GR was Demon Summoning, a Mastermind set which is an AT that will have a pay to unlock value of AT LEAST $10- A nice thing about microtransactions is the ability to objectively equate a monetary value to these sorts of things.
That brings the total value under the new model of "pay to play powersets" for subscribers to $2.50 based on the most recent instance of the same thing-- So we will be effectively paying FOUR TIMES AS MUCH for these new powersets based on the monetary value the staff have implied.
(Once again, I am using those as a reference point since that is the last time I can recall us being charged for powersets, so it seems the most up-to-date standard to hold it to) w -
Quote:Originally Posted by warden_de_dios
These points are not given for free, you have to remain a subscriber. Something I was doing before but when I wanted new sets (which showed up very infrequently) I had to spend money in excess of my subscription. Now I get these new sets for free.
I'm saving money.
I was using the term "free" assuming we all maintain the current subscription we are already paying. -
Quote:For this I'll reference my last post:Originally Posted by Mega_Jamie
The free points do need considering, its effectively a $5 voucher for the store every month.
If you didn't happen to have a childhood, google "Indian Giving" for more information.Quote:Things that are given for free should not be taken into account when discussing the monetary value of other things...
Let's say my friend owns a car dealership.
I took him out to lunch every day for a year in high school, just to be nice, I was giving him something for free because I was that kind of guy...
Does that mean that when I need a new car, he should feel obligated to give me a discount!?!?
NO.
What you personally care to play has no hold over the monetary value of each powerset- How much time the Dev's had to develop each powerset also should not effect the worth of the powerset- I tend to expect a balanced game, and rely on them to figure out how to keep everything in check on their end.Quote:Include Going Rogue in this calculation, but when was the last time the devs were able to output 6 sets in a 12 month period? As was the case for Going Rogue and Villains, that stuff was in the works for a long while, and it probably is possible they could put out more than 6 in a year, but will they be 6+ sets I care to play? probably not.
(Ignoring a part of your post as it was speculation)
Yes, and that is why in my OP I referenced the earliest price of Going Rogue (ie the last time powersets were sold) and used that to calculate the value. If I had used the current price, thus ruling out the "must have it nao" crowd, we would be having a whole different discussion... Also, as far as I'm aware VIP's will be charged just as much for these new sets as non-subscribers.Quote:yes if you look at the $10 cost of sets in a vacuum they are overpriced, This serves 2 purposes;
1) The I MUST HAVE IT NAO!!! crowd pay through the nose, for what, as VIPs they could eventually get included in their subscription if they waited. More money for the Devs to do more things with.
As far as I'm concerned, the overpricing of things that paying subscribers need to front is a step in the wrong direction...Quote:2) A logical evaluation of the cost vs gain of remaining a FREEM or Vet vs becoming a VIP (plus benefits of VIP in other areas) will hopefully push players into becoming VIP, making a more steady and reliable revenue stream.
If you look at the math I did in my OP, new powersets are being valued by the powers that be at more than double what they were previously valued at....Quote:So personally I think that the cost vs gain of VIP will probably have us paying out slightly more per year to get everything if we want everything. but not by a large amount, and nowhere near how much more expensive it will be to remain a Free player and purchase on an ad hoc basis.
I can't stress enough that FREE POINTS ARE FREE and not to be taken into account in terms of monetary value of items for sale. See the first paragraph of this post for more info.
here's how they were factored in already by the devs (not a transcription but the general ideaQuote:If you're adamant on saying "Dont discuss the 'free' points" they have to be factored in somehwere, say you use these for boosters, then the money saved that you would have spent on a super booster, goes towards the next powerset. 
We are moving to a free model to ensure more value for our paying subscribers. If you continue to pay, we will give you these free points just because you are important to us.
There was nothing in the sentiment about added inflation for the current value of items that would be rationally balanced out by the addition of these very sweet and courteous free points they chose to give us. (See: Indian Giving.)
I hope that is the case, all I'm asking for is some congruity with the previous rates we were charged for the same valued items. After all, I know I'm repeating myself, but VIP according to the Dev's is meant to hook us up, not gauge us.Quote:On a less logical note, of course I would like them to be cheaper, but as was stated in i20 Open Beta, Prices start High and go down in beta, because its more player friendly. They would have been better off not mentioning their beta prices at all, but with SDCC that just wasnt an option. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
No.
NO.
A HUNDRED BAZILLION GOOGOLPLEX TIMES NO!
KB is baked in as part of most of these powers' balance. Remove the mitigation of KB and what you have left are powers with no mitigation and substandard damage. And you STILL have various and sundry mental defectives weeping and raging over people who refuse to cripple themselves by turning KB off.
The proper answer isn't "get rid of if". The proper answer is "adapt, overcome".
It's for personal powers. You have the option to turn it off. If you want it for mitigation, then no problem! Go to Pocket D and turn it back on. If you're already fond of it in the first place, then you had no reason to go to Pocket D and turn it off. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
Yeah, I mean, free points for overpriced things still takes away more free points than otherwise!
Just saying!
Anyway... I've found discussing money with people on forums is not much better than discussing... well, much of anything...
Things that are given for free should not be taken into account when discussing the monetary value of other things...
Let's say my friend owns a car dealership.
I took him out to lunch every day for a year in high school, just to be nice, I was giving him something for free because I was that kind of guy...
Does that mean that when I need a new car, he should feel obligated to give me a discount!?!?
NO. -
I was thinking with the addition of the little bird in Pocket D who can turn +movement off in Speed Boost, he should also be able to turn Knockback off in personal powers.
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Quote:Originally Posted by warden_de_dios
If I subscribe for a whole year I get 6 new powersets, 1 every 2 months, before I even have to think about spending any extra money on this game. From my point of view all these powersets are free.
The point of this thread is the monetary value of powersets.
This is not taking your "free points" into account as they have been described to us as an extra goodie for our continued support. Those points are free, you may spend them as you please- Therefore they are not relevant to, once again, the monetary value of powersets which is what I started this thread to discuss. -
According to what I've read here on this board, the Beam Gun and Street Justice (I think I got the names right) will hold a monetary value of $10.00 each. Now I'm trying to figure out the monetary value of powersets.
As far as I'm aware, the last time we had to 'pay' for powersets was:
1.)Dual Pistols
2.)Kinetic Melee
3.)Demon Summoning
4.) Electric Control
Since I'm trying to figure out what these sets were worth, IRL money-wise to the COH staff...
These were all a part of Going Rogue.
I'm not sure what GR originally sold for, because I wasn't around when it first came out... But based on a quick Google search, it at one point sold for $30.00
Now, if these 4 powersets were all that were included in GR, that would mean that they held a value of $7.50 each.... STILL $2.50 cheaper than these new sets... But that's not it! Going Rogue also came with:
1.) The tip system
I'm not sure if free accounts will be able to access this.
2.) The Incarnate system
I know that free accounts won't be able to access the Incarnate System, and I would place it at a MINIMUM of one ten dollar fee.
Now, if we factor that into the original cost of new power sets last time we had to pay for them, it would bring it down to $5.00 each. Already half the price that is being charged for these new sets, and that's assuming the tip system will have no monetary value.
3.) An entire new DIMENSION
Three of the most beautiful zones COH has seen, as well as new arcs, new contacts, and just... Wow, Praetoria is amazing. I would consider it the most valuable part of the GR expansion.
I feel like it cost the staff much more time, manpower, etc. to create Praetoria than these new powersets.
Now, I know we'll be getting free zones in issue 21, which makes that a sort of moot point (since they will be creating 3 new zones with all new story arcs, I think?)
However, based on the math I already did of the previous monetary value per powerset, we are still going to be charged DOUBLE at release...
The thing that really bothers me here is that the Devs went out of their way on announcement day to let us know that the F2P model is meant to give more to currently paying subscribers, and that was why they initiated it. All rainbows and sunshine... They were giving us these free paragon points just to be nice.
But of course, they waited for the dust to settle before they informed us (indirectly, of course) that they would be valuing any new additions at more than double than they were previously valued before this was initiated...
Feel free to share your thoughts. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
I don't think - kind of reading between the lines - that they *want* a global inventory, that they're fine with the email system and storing things in SGs being the limit.
That said, having everything go global? I don't think you have a snowball's chance there. Having a small (I'm talking, oh, up to 30 items max) shared inventory space, *maybe* that would go through. But:
That? No way. I've got nearly 300 characters. I'd have thousands of slots. I can't see them wanting to do that just as a discussion point, much less going into the technical details of it.
The thing is that we have the option to store ALL of these things anyways... They might as well make it more convenient. I'm not saying we need extra slots for 'x'item- I'm simply saying that it should be more convenient to access the storage we already have in the first place.
I don't see how it would effect the Dev's, balance wise, if we didn't have to spend the extra few minutes alting to transfer/store "X" item/X amount of influence/infamy... Unless the thought is that the more in game time we have to spend doing tedious and borderline insufferable/unnecessary things, the more time is ticking off of our monthly subscription that we are unable to spend playing the game and therefore have more things to spend time on next month...? -
This game encourages altoholism, and yet on a per-character basis we have an inf cap, inventory cap.... And a sub-par e-mail system to tediously transfer one item at a time between our large selection of characters (while we sit through load screens and the like.)
Why not just have all inf, enhancements, and recipes go straight to our account? Obviously the Devs aren't opposed to us sending stuff between our characters or they wouldn't give us such a (pathetic) e-mail system.
Let our account-wide enhancement/recipe inventory be equal to the total number of slots for each, respectively, between all of our characters.
I don't know. Maybe there's a better way to do this... I just know that before I started investing in my computer (specifically for COH I might add) it was a HUGE chore to sit through very long load screens just to transfer a few enhancements to another character, or a little bit of inf. to a new project. Now, it just strikes me as annoying and unnecessary. -
Another thing to be added to the list, along with things like recoloring/placing on minimum effects: Hasten in particular, and super speed. Also VEAT color customization...
And Kheldian color customization.
.........Sorry guys, I just insinuated that Kheldians should get some form of attention, no matter how small a thing like color customization...
That means that this post and anything close to it (ie: the thread) will now be snuffed and ignored by the devs and community team for all eternity. My bad.
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I'll share here the same comments I've already told you in game AIB...
I understand that you kept exemping in mind when you made this build, but I hardly feel it should be such a focus to you. Purple sets that offer resistance to exotic damage for 6 slots shouldn't be a priority on a level 50 perma eclipsed Warshade build in my opinion, especially since you're also making an effort to build up your s/l defense... If you didn't 6 slot those purples (and even Posi blast 6 slotted for resistance bonuses I assume.....You could still get GREAT numbers for those powers with 5 slots and keep the desirable procs) you would have more slots to focus on building your defense up higher...
Also, I am very fond of the approach Dechs took, since he also worked in a 6 slotted Dark Extraction in his build.. He was able to pick up the recharge bonus from Expedient Reinforcement being 4 slotted as well as 2 pieces from the purple set you have 6 slotted. Of course I haven't checked to see if the 6.25 recharge bonus would be a conflict on your build..
This is not to say that your build isn't effective. It clearly is very effective, as I have seen you perform in game more times than I can count in addition to the feats you've posted here on the boards. You are one of my favorite people to team with and every time we run our Warshades together it is great fun... I'm just speaking in terms of getting the most bang for your buck.
Edit: not sure if he's made changes to this build since he e-mailed it to me the other day... But if not here is the data link: http://tinyurl.com/3c9u69k -
Wow I am very out of the loop ever since I gave up any hope of my Kheld questions being answered on U Stream and stopped watching...
Very glad COH is incorporating voice acting. The cut scenes in particular feel very primitive with text boxes. -
Quote:I sent you a PM on how to post your images here.Originally Posted by Laserblitz_Emcc
I finally took my new triform build out for a spin ( thanks microcosm it handles wonderfully)
With full incarnate power I took down a pylon in under 2 min and solo Cimerea at lvl 50
I then realized I have no idea how to post the pics I took
If someone could be so kind as to post a link to a guide
It might also help other who wish to post here
Thanks
I plan to keep doing that Cimera mission with a inc level of difficult and see how high i can go if i use every trick available (unlimited class challenge)
To be honest I did try without lore pets amd only got halfway each time before running out if inspirs or patience -
Update- Another two powersets scheduled to be released... That even subscribers will have to pay for (?!?! that's another story..)
The bottom line is that new sets that aren't even in the game yet are being discussed/addressed by the Dev's while Kheldians continue to get the short end of it. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Lohenien
It was pretty much gold up until the tail end of season one. After that it was downhill.
I was actually happy with all of seasons 1 and 2... Season 3 was the beginning of the descent for me, but there was still enough interesting stuff going on to keep me entertained pretty thoroughly.