Turbo_Ski
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Posts
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Joined
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Quote:Except if you bothered to even look at the numbers you would know that the corruptor damage advantage greatly outweighs the defender's support advantage. Defenders get the short end of the stick when trading away damage for higher support values and with some sets like Kinetics end up with identical values for over half the set.Originally Posted by PhiloticKnight
See that's the thing though, I have no problem with Corrupters. They really are the mirror to Defenders in my opinion, and I think that they are "equal" to Defenders. More damage, yes, but still lower buff numbers. Fair is fair.
Kinetics has identical numbers for all versions of Speed Boost, Siphon Speed, and Fulcrum Shift (in-game tests prove FS is using the defender values on corruptors and controllers at 50% from caster and 25% per foe radiate). -
Quote:looking at numbers and performing basic math doesn't make you or anyone a machine, Phil. It makes you a "thinker", not a "believer", you know like Galileo Galilei.Originally Posted by PhiloticKnight
And yes I don't look at numbers, and yes I look at FEEL. Why do I do this? Because I'm human, not a machine. If it "feels" fine to me, then it IS fine to me. And Controllers feel overpowered to me compared to every other AT, not JUST Defenders. There is a good reason why Controllers outnumber every other AT at level 50 every time I search for teammates by a factor of at least 3.
Controller damage is pretty well balanced with every AT except defenders and obviously less than blasters. The reason it's popular lies in the fact that there are only 2 ATs with support sets hero side and defender damage has the lowest damage of any AT in the game and naturally provides less support than a controller. Defenders haven't been really touched at all since CoH release and controllers were revised in Issue 5 to be able to solo pre-32 and not be overpowered post-32. Defenders are in the same situation as Kheldians were before Issue 13, largely being ignored while other ATs evolved with the game. -
Quote:So you think all defenders without sonic blast are fine on damage? You do realize that sonic blast's damage output is an extreme outlier when talking about defender damage output right?Originally Posted by Garent
I have a 50 corruptor and 45 controller and believe that defenders are just fine.
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Quote:Where is your controllers, corruptors, and masterminds? You know the relevant ones when comparing support ATs.Originally Posted by PhiloticKnight
Tell that to my 35 SS/WP Brute, my 45 Fire/Regen Scrapper, and many others.
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Quote:Probably because you don't play multiple ATs, don't look at numbers at all, and don't actively look AT balance with an unbiased eye. Your arguments aren't supported by logical facts and instead are supplemented with what you believe or feel is true. You're the type of player that would play the defender AT if it had a 0.1 damage modifier and still would claim that defender damage is fine.Originally Posted by PhiloticKnight
No Fulmens, it would be more like "Oh look, there's Phil posting in the Corrupter forums about how much Corrupters suck."
But wait, I don't do that.... and Turbo does. -
Quote:and +Dmg stacking doesn't trump -Res debuff stacking for enhancing overall damage. +Dmg only effects base damage, but -Res effects enhanced damage. Also the -res cap is rarely ever reached but damage caps are slammed frequently because damage enhancements contribute towards the cap and +Dmg buffs are numerous amongst both sets and inherents.Originally Posted by Amy_Amp
Fulcrum has 1/3 of the recharge time compared to Oil Slick and that's without Siphon Speed being factored in and let's not forget Oil Slick doesn't exactly light every time either. Storm and TA are nice offensive based debuff and control sets, but they aren't Kin.
Also with 3 recharge SOs, slick is up every other spawn and it rarely does not light. -
Quote:most definitely not this issue. It would increase the file size of each custom critter and it wouldn't be the same kind of transition as the costume creator was.Originally Posted by LordXenite
Uhh... what about color customization the powers in use by AE critters? any word?
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Quote:Fixed that for you. Unless you're teaming exclusively with a non-dwarf Kheldian hero side, you'll never find good use for frostworks because of how awful HP caps are and how frostworks works.Originally Posted by Catwhoorg
In order
Trick Arrow - all debuffs and controls
Dark Miasma - one heal, targeted on you which i usually treat as a self heal with a bonus anyway.
Radiation Emission - PBAOE heal, doesn't require a target, plus AM once in a while, that its a good idea to try to get the team in one spot for
Cold Domination - 2 ally buffs (2 shields) are rather important
Secondaries, either dark or ice are decent. -
Quote:It's the same thing as when I said Kheldians sucked before Issue 13 and explained very clearly my reasoning for it on the kheldian boards in very long threads where I got flamed multiple times by "True Believers". Then they massively buffed Kheldians in Issue 13.Originally Posted by PhiloticKnight
Broken record much T_S?
Oh look, Turbo is posting again in the Defender boards about how Defenders suck.
Thanks goodness "Believers" aren't listened to for design decisions, otherwise stalkers, blasters (see old defiance), Kheldians, and dominators would still suck as they did in the past. -
The problem with defenders from your perspective coming from controllers and MMs is the lack of both damage and overall team support.
MMs are essentially Tank/Damage/Support with how pets absorb attacks, deal damage, and how even the lower MM support values amplify the pet's strengths even more. It's chaotic mitigation much in the way of Illusion Control and Storm Summoning except with more damage focus.
Controllers are control/damage/support. Since release controllers have always been better team support because of the significant amount of damage mitigation being tossed about through both control and support sets. Issue 5 made them significant damage dealers at all level ranges instead of only post lvl 32.
Defenders however severely lack damage compared to the above two ATs and while their support values are better they don't trump the primary/secondary synergy MMs and controllers for team mitigation. The damage portion is so bad that corruptors easily trump out the defender support advantage with their damage advantage (since damage is a form of damage mitigation). Combine all this with a very poorly designed inherent, and it's no wonder you don't find defenders as fun as previous support ATs.
Heck, I'm deleting/transfering and rerolling my lvl 50 Cold/ice and lvl 50 TA/A defenders as an Ice/Cold controller and A/TA corruptor when Issue 16 hits. Also the situation is only going to worsen when Going Rogue comes out and allows for side-switching. -
No color customization for any EATs, APP/PPP, temp powers, veteran reward powers, inherent powers, accolade powers, and Pool powers in Issue 16. Maybe in a later Issue though.
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This thread is just absolutely awful and not even entertaining.
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Quote:Which assumes that the entire team is in melee and that Fulcrum shift hits all 10 targets, oh and teammates aren't bringing any +Dmg that might have them hit the cap faster.Originally Posted by Amy_Amp
And then the Kin comes in and uses Fulcrum on a SBed team.
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Quote:Oil Slick does 494.3 fire damage in a massive AoE over 15 seconds BEFORE you add in the -20% res from disruption arrow, the -20% res from acid arrow, -20% from achille's heel procs in Slick and Acid arrow, and the -20% res and 57.1 dmg from howl. That is a significant amount of AoE damage for a blast set that excels at single target but lacks solid AoE. Also -Res debuffs effect the entire team, aren't variable and positional based, and doesn't have a cap that can be easily reached.Originally Posted by Deacon_NA
This is a bit off track from the OP's question, who doesn't want to do a Kin, but mostly I replied because of the notion above that TA gives an offensive edge over Kin is stunning. I would love to see any sort of analysis to support that.
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switch it to Sonic/Rad if you don't want to be gimpy while solo and still very useful for teams.
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Quote:Kinetics is actually the weakest set transitioning from Corruptors to Defenders. This is because most of the power in the set have the same values as they do for corruptors and those that do differ don't differ enough to make the lower damage cap and overall damage loss worth it.Originally Posted by justisaur
I've got a Sonic/Kin Corruptor. While I think she's a great addition to a team, I realized a Kin/Sonic Defender would be even better.
As for primarys to go with sonic blast...
TA is probably your best choice for an offensive edge (more so than kin) because of the -Res debuff cap being high and the blasts light oil slick for massive aoe damage amplified by howl's -res debuff.
Rad would probably be the best middle as usual, though Cold is nice though if you want to mix it up with buffs. Storm a bit more on the offensive side comparatively.
Dark would be the best choice for a defensive extreme with forcefield being second, since it's slightly more offensive with repulsion bomb's damage making up for Sonic blast's low AoE damage and less self protection. -
For the record, Snow Storm DOES NOT and NEVER HAS caused scatter.
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Quote:like someone giving you a house for free and the ceiling only goes up to 5 feet from the ground.Originally Posted by UberGuy
Imagine how it feels to use Dull Pain on a /Regen Stalker.
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Quote:I would imagine it will only get worse as more powersets are added in, since it's just a matter of time before they attempt another go at ally +maxhp buffs.Originally Posted by Starsman_NA
I agree big time. Been saying it for ages. As it stands its a waste for Cold Domination > Frostwork to be cast on way too many builds.
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Quote:While on the subject of HP, none of the ATs except maybe stalkers should have their base hp raised at all. However HP caps really need to raised significantly on any AT that isn't a kheld, SoA, or brute.
HP does not work off base HP, it works of an independent modifier that has been intentionally set to match base HP in the case of self-heals.
If Castle wanted, he could even remove the healing modifier from Aid Self and make the power heal exactly the same amount of HP to all ATs, for instance, or give it the Damage modifier and make it heal more if used by heavy damage ATs, etc etc. -
Quote:well not in long chains, but it's certainly a dang good burst hit for sonic.Originally Posted by Silverado
Good Sonics don't use Shout
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Quote:on small teams that is the case, but once the team size exceed 4 or 5 it starts to drop in it's effectiveness. A self only buff component attached to regen/recov auras would help them out solo and help to increase their effectiveness on higher team sizes without making changes to fortitude or adrenaline boost.Originally Posted by StratoNexus
Empathy is, IME, more than appropriately compensated in teams, you just have to be very active.
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Quote:The ratio is the same, but Tar Patch's longer duration and longer recharge makes it less useful the faster the team goes and for no advantage for doing so. It would also enable Tar Patch to be double stacked like Sleet/FR can within the first 30 seconds of combat.Originally Posted by Garent
Out of curiosity and in an attempt to steer the conversation in a more enlightened direction, what's your reasoning for this? Don't both powers have the same ratio of up time to down time?
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Quote:We're not on the same page here Ultimo...Originally Posted by Ultimo_
I didn't say anything that was wrong.
Rad doesn't provide adequate offense or defense (it provides a bit of both - what's to be considered adequate is the issue). Cold, FF, Sonic and other sets don't have the tools to provide offense or defense to the Defender. I've already shown this.
FF has PFF and the highest team +Def stacking in any set, it's no where near weak defensively for teams or for solo.
Cold has Arctic Fog, Snow Storm, Infrigidate, Benumb, Sleet, and Heat Loss that all make soloing a breeze. It is in no means suffering in self protection or offensively weak.
Rad every tool rad uses to protect teams it can use solo and they function very well. It is in no means suffering in self protection or offensively weak.
Sonic and Empathy are the only sets that are inadequate while solo and not in anyway appropriately compensated for such while in teams. -
Quote:Sonic would be the best choice if you're main concerned about soloing since it's easily does the best at single target damage.Originally Posted by Ultimus
Not sure if you are being misleading or serious (So I am asking). Is Dark Blast really good? How is it damage wise against a single target compared to something like Ice?
Ice does decent single target and AoE and Freeze Ray early on does make this a lot safer of a solo choice.
Dark is pretty rough solo, but the mitigation syngery between -Tohit aoes and +def shields is quite noticeable on teams coming from playing Ice/Cold regularly. You might find issue with the set lacking a good solid hold/stun though like Screech and Freeze Ray.