TrueGentleman

It's more a social phenomenon than any one group. Trash talk in an unmoderated global channel is the equivalent of graffiti in the NYC subway system. Persistent minor disorder in a social setting can lead to more problematic anti-social behavior.

Either Paragon Studios needs to invest in GMs to moderate /help or provide the playing community with better tools for self-policing. I suspect, though, that the chocobo has already bolted the stables.

Welcome to CoH's Barrens Chat. The "stupidity centrifuge" is already spinning past the point of control.

I should PM Zwill about my previous PM to let him know this.

No, they're not. That's just accounting. It's like those TV commercial offers that throw in an "extra", but the bottom line price doesn't change.

If Paragon wants to offer a $10 VIP subscription package with no free Paragon Points/transfers/whatever, that would be a different matter.

EDIT: But I repeat, it's not simply about VIP point availability going out of sync - it's just another recent problem with Paragon, including the erratic server behavior and downtime, unscheduled server maintenance, the last-minute delay of VIP head start, the Mac client's stability issues and market access, the unexpected termination of level pacts, etc.

It's also an allusion to a Ronald Reagan quote (in the 1980 presidential primary debate, he said, "I am paying for this microphone, Mr. Green!" when he was interrupted, but it's better known as "I paid").

EDIT: I should have addressed him as "Prof." to make the alliteration complete, but that's in hindsight.

I paid for those points as part of my VIP subscription package. They're not "free".

Given that digital purchases, whether downloads or subscriptions, are typically expected to be immediate "delivery" on payment, I see no reason why CoH should be different. Would it be acceptable to purchase 400 Paragon Points at the Market and have to wait a week for delivery after payment was approved?

And the issue here is whether we get them on time or not. We're not, and it will take months to fix. I suppose we'll get more information when we get it.

I didn't ask for them early, and as I recall, the devs explained at the time that this was for the inauguration of CoH Freedom. If either of us had known that there'd be this kind of screw-up, I doubt it would have gone forward. As it stands, the mistake is on their side, not ours.

That's a supposition, not a confirmation from Paragon. This is a contentious enough topic without making assumptions.

Actually, I did see that before I made my OP but refrained from quoting that for two reasons: (1) It's Von Krieger's paraphrase* (2) It's not directly supported by Zwillinger's post, in which he does not get into either specific increments or deadlines. This discussion has to be an open record or else it will veer off into rumor and conjecture. Either it comes from the horse's mouth, so to speak, or it's chaff.


* Zwillinger has already had to clear up confusion in another case when something said in UStream was paraphrased.

So do you retract your accusations that I "spin fantasies about mendacious reasons" or not? (What in fact I did say was: "Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by computer error.")

As for how long it will take to fix the error or what they have to do, since I'm not the manager of Paragon Studios' billing department, that's not my concern. This is a customer service issue, and either it's resolved or it's not (it's not).

If you'll do me the courtesy of rereading my posts, you'll see that I've done no such thing. I have no idea why Paragon's billing department couldn't get this right and care only that they fix it promptly.

If you could please cite your source for this information or let us know exactly how you come by it, it would be a great help for this discussion. Perhaps even a red name could confirm it in the forums.

If you'd do me the courtesy of reading my posts, you'd see that I've never complained about not receiving the points at all, but not receiving them on time, as originally Paragon promised. Until they arrive on the starting date of billing cycle, they're late.

As I said before, your considerations and my considerations are not the only ones in City of Heroes - and Paragon Studios has to treat all its customers fairly.

You're forgetting the weekly sales on items already in store that people whose points have been delayed may not be able to take advantage of, in addition to the new items, which the devs have suggested will be coming at a fairly regularly pace (what kind remains to be seen). The principle, to paraphrase another poster, is less fun per month.

Funnily enough, I did, as I mentioned at the time. I thought, in my naivety, that it would be simpler all around to have my billing occur on the 1st instead of toward the end of the month (I still can't remember which day it was). In retrospect, I have to laugh at my assumption about the reliability of the billing department.

To repeat, the delay in awarding points for the paid-in-advance VIP subscriptions billed on the first third of the month will continue for months. Anyone with their billing cycle in this period can expect not to receive their allocation in time for the first week's sales. Zwillinger only used this month as a specific example, i.e. October 11th (just in time to miss out). We await further updates, but until then, that's the status quo.

Even "Receive response from free players" would make a huge quality-of-life difference, both for individual players and the community overall. As it stands, the system only reinforces the Haves vs. Have-Nots division in the game. If a VIP player wants to engage in conversation, why should their options be restricted to VIPers?

The devs should keep in mind that VIP players are the best sales reps for the game when it comes to convincing an F2Per to pay up. Why limit VIPers' ability to pitch the full experience of City of Heroes?

That is not correct. It is months plural. Please see Zwillinger's original post:
If perhaps this issue doesn't affect you directly, then at least try to put yourself in the position of the players it does when discussing it.

Again, that is not the case - it was not the original system, and it misses the issue of the weekly releases in the market. Please see Zwillinger's original post:
Anyone who has a billing date in the first third of the month and who was counting on receiving their points when Paragon had originally promised delivery now will not have them in time for the first weekly sale, beginning with October's. (By the way, there's also no reason to use all-caps shouting to make a point when off base to begin with.)

This will affect some players more than it does others, but there's no reason to attempt to hand-wave the problem away. (Zwillinger certainly acknowledged it.) Your considerations and my considerations are not the only ones in City of Heroes - and Paragon Studios has to treat all its customers fairly.

Again, this is not the first customer service problem that Paragon has had recently. If it were, this discussion would be confined to the original one about Paragon Points and Reward Tokens in the News, Events & Announcement Discussion thread. Zwillinger has done a commendable job communicating with players each time something goes wrong, but at the end of the day, his mandate doesn't extend beyond apology. At a certain point, there must be more. Customer good will is rarely lost all at once, in an explosion of nerd-rage after a spectacular screw-up. Typically, it's just ground away, with one problem after another.

To update the old adage, "Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by computer error." That covers your examples and mine of CoH Freedom-related problems. It's just that there are a lot of them lately.

Similarly, I believe Noble Savage when he told us that he did his best on the CoT redesign and Positron when he told us that everyone in house loved the new look; I do not believe that Paragon/NC Soft arbitrarily trashed the design of an established element of the game in order to sell spikey shoulder pads to new F2Pers who wanted to recreate the look of their eleventieth-level witchaloks. Just because the MTX model has been corrupted by many MMORPG companies in the past doesn't mean it's inherently corrupting, theoretically.

Zwillinger has had to post an explanation of the situation after the fact, acknowledge the confusion, and apologize on behalf of Paragon Studios. The problem itself won't be resolved for months. It's what happens in the meantime that's the concern.

It was annoying, wasn't it? I found myself in the same position of preparing to purchase points - and hoping that the market wouldn't crash CoH again - when I was stopped by a small, persistent voice that asked, "And what next?"

Paragon Studies doesn't have to make a gesture of good will, but it doesn't have to sit on its hands either. One way or the other, it sends a message to the playerbase.

This is what Zwillinger wrote, describing the problem:
Obviously you're unaffected by the delay in transferring points since your billing date coincides with the receipt of your VIP Paragon Points.

This, on the other hand, is a succinct description of the problem that affects players whose billing date occurs in the first third of the month:
And to reiterate, the larger issue is the context of assorted problems that players have experienced lately. The open question is how Paragon Studios might address it.

To reiterate, that's months plural, not singular. If that were the case, this wouldn't even be a discussion. Indeed, if all players were on the same schedule and could play regularly every day from week to week, it wouldn't be an issue either. That's not how things are in real life.

Thank you, that's actually a piece of solid information (not mentioned in Von Krieger's helpful summary). Unfortunately, Zwillinger did not specify this in his post, so either the situation has changed or further clarification is necessary.

As it stands, some players can now look forward to months of missing out on regular sales. After repeated server downtime, unscheduled maintenance, market bugs and inaccessibility, Freedom's eleventh-hour delay, the end of level pacts, etc., etc., what's one more glitch between Paragon and paying customers?

"I'm all right, Jack."

I could never remember when my billing date was exactly, so when this new system was announced, I moved it to the 1st so there'd never be any question of how many points per month I was owed.

You're under a misapprehension about the new system. Everything except basic access to the game is now monetized. "Freebies" were such things as new costume pieces or the Mission Architect system that were introduced to all subscribers under the old business model and which are now offered on the Paragon Market. That is the reason why VIPers get a stipend, which is part of their subscription package. So, yes, those points are something we've paid for.

That's a philosophical attitude to take individually.

It does not alter the basic arrangement between Paragon Studios and "VIP" customers that the subscription comes with a stipend of 400 monthly points for the market awarded on the player's renewal date.

Except that this will now take months to fix, plural, with no established endpoint. If this had been a short-term problem, or even one that had an anticipated finish, it would be a different mater.

This is a cut-and-dried customer service issue. There are neither mountains nor molehills being made here, nor even any recommendations about what Paragon Studios should do as far as compensation might go.

The indisputable fact, however, is that this is yet another problem directly related to CoH Freedom. Even if it's the last (if anyone wants to take that bet), Paragon has a compounded customer service problem on their hands.

This isn't an issue of patience, but one of customer service. It's further compounded by potentially missing out on sales for months to come. Again, it's a significant problem that there's no timetable or deadline for resolution.

While I've already posted there, this particular problem is also one in a series of difficulties with service that we've been experiencing. Bringing up this overarching issue there would just be derailing the thread. At some point, this is going to affect the playerbase's morale. It would be reassuring if Paragon could give an indication, or better still a good will gesture, that they appreciate this.