Trickshooter

Just for the record, ET's damage in PvP could always have been different, it didn't need PvP 2.0. There are certain effects that having a PvP and PvE flag make possible now, yes, but it's mostly for buffs. Since PvP was introduced, there's been a way to make the amount of damage, debuff, or other offensive effects different depending on the type of target: critter or player.

That's how we had 1/3 non-resistable damage on Blasters, non-resistable criticals on Scrappers, triple damage on Controllers, and non-resistable debuffs on Defenders.

My point being, I don't think PvP can really be blamed here. ET's PvP damage could have been altered to be different in PvP and PvE long before the Issue 13 changes.

Off the top of my head, I believe we were the first to get Master of Statesman's Task Force (and with a Trick Arrows Defender on the team, at that!) and the first to defeat the villain Hamidon.

Ahh, old PvP with a Trick Archer was tons of fun. People hated you sooooo much.

They also forgot to ever give PFF Toxic Resistance.

And Cord, the Mutant/Magic Dual Origin Enhancement, doesn't enhance Toxic Resistance.

Trick Arrow is a weaker support set for most of the game. It picks up really quickly late game, though, thanks to Oil Slick Arrow and EMP Arrow.

At that point, it's very good at causing damage and speeding up fights (with Oil Slick Arrow's damage and the -Resistance of Disruption Arrow and Acid Arrow). The reason people have issues with it is because:

A) It is such a late bloomer
B) It relies heavily on recharge
C) Damage isn't something most teams are looking for when they want to recruit a Defender

Most of the people that say "Trick Arrows sucks!" is because they want it to be better at debuff and control than it is, and the people that say "Trick Arrows is amazeballs!" say it because they love being steamrollers late-game when you mix in huge amounts of recharge.

Looking at Trick Arrows' powers and description, it looks like it's the design intent for us to use multiple arrows to create the same effects other sets get in a single power. I know, that's... just awful, but bear with me for a second.

Along those same lines, based on the history I know of the set, it also seems like the idea was that we'd be able to use most of Trick Arrows at every spawn (at least Flash Arrow, Glue Arrow, Poison Gas Arrow, Disruption Arrow and Acid Arrow). So while it would take several powers to get those same effects, we'd be able to use them more often and in larger AoEs than other sets. And while Trick Arrows lacked much to deal with alphas (beyond Oil Slick Arrow's knockdown and EMP Arrow's Hold), it made prolonged fights much safer.

You can probably see a problem beginning to develop here: a set apparently designed to use most powers once at every spawn, with large enough AoEs to hit an entire spawn, but with debuffs and controls better suited towards lengthier battles.

Now at the time Trick Arrows was designed, it existed in a game where six-slotting was normal and permahasten wasn't all that special (and honestly it looks like the Devs forgot that they were also implementing a MaxTarget cap on all powers when they designed it, based on the AoE sizes). I think the devs quickly realized people wouldn't be using them at every spawn once, but would be trying to neuter mobs by stacking all of them multiple times, and so the simplest solution would be to increase the recharge times, as that's what people were likely to slot for anyway in a click-heavy set (though Poison Gas Arrow, Flash Arrow and Acid Arrow could never self-stack, it was still listed as a reason for the increase).

After that, I can only assume the idea was that we'd slot them to the point where we could use them at every spawn, but wouldn't be able to use them more than once very often. And that was a poor decision. Suddenly we couldn't slot for whatever we wanted; Trick Arrows had to be slotted heavily for recharge to keep up (and it still does, honestly).

So, I tried to rethink what could be done to make the set work and be more appealing, but also work with the design intent of the set (to use multiple arrows per spawn), as it looks like we won't see any changes that push the set too far away from that (otherwise, we'd have seem more changes by now, right?).

And I thought... maybe some new mechanics.

What if each use of specific Trick Arrows powers gave your character some sort of flag that altered the effects of the next power you used? Kind of like a mix of combo/bonus system of other sets (namely Titan Weapons, Time Manipulation and Street Justice)?

For instance:

Using Glue Arrow on a spawn sets a flag on you called "slowedEnemies." Following this up with another Trick Arrows power, alters or boosts the effect of that power, so maybe:

Flash Arrow - ToHit debuff doubled.
Poison Gas Arrow - Summons an alternate version of Poison Gas Arrow that has a Hold when the pet first comes out or that tics Holds as the enemy if overcome by the mix of gas and fumes.
Disruption Arrow - Summons an alternate version of Disruption Arrow that tics a Stun effect or that causes -Special.
Acid Arrow - Resistance/Defense debuffs boosted, as slowed enemies linger in the acid longer.

Or using Poison Gas Arrow on a spawn sets a flagged called "poisonedEnemies" on you, which changes the effects of the next arrow you use:

Flash Arrow - ToHit debuff doubled. (You might see a pattern form here, the idea being that using Flash Arrow as an opener leaves it in it's current state, but using it mid-battle would also be useful).
Glue Arrow - Summons an alternate version of Glue Arrow with the -Recharge doubled, as the enemies are weakened by the poison, and so have a harder time fighting the glue.
Disruption Arrow - Summons an alternate version of Disruption Arrow that tics a Hold as enemies senses of sight, hearing and smell are overloaded by the combination.
Acid Arrow - Adds an additional -Damage effect to Acid Arrow from the combination of different chemicals of the gas and acid.

And so on for each of the 5 main AoEs in the set (Flash Arrow, Glue Arrow, Poison Gas Arrow, Acid Arrow and Disruption Arrow). Each flag would only last long enough to get maybe 1 or 2 more arrows out so you could change the effects you want to achieve quickly.

The idea is that Trick Arrows would become more effective than other sets with debuffs, by strategically using several powers in varying orders. It would also fit the game description of the set better, in that it very well could alter the battlefield when you used it strategically.

Anyway, just an idea I had while I shooouuuld be cleaning up my studio.

I'm not looking at Mids right now, but I know those numbers are a little off. For Defenders, Acid Arrow is -20% Resist, -25% Defense, Acid Mortar is -26.6% Resist and -26.6% Defense.

The reason is because they took the Corruptor Acid Mortar values (-20% for both) as the base, and divided them by 0.75 (because Corruptor buff/debuff mods are usually, but not always, 0.075 compared to Defenders' 0.1), and got -26.6% (There's actually a small bug with that, because for -Defense, Corruptors mod is -0.1, while Defenders is -0.125, so the Defender version should actually only be -25% Defense).

Didja stop reading halfway through Glue Arrow? Cause I'm pretty sure I suggested a tic'ing Hold in Glue Arrow, an increase in the mag of Poison Gas Arrow, and a ToHit debuff in Disruption Arrow that, combined with Flash Arrow, could get nearly -20% ToHit on enemies when slotted.

And here we are again, probably 2 years since my last attempt to get some kind of discussion going about getting a few buffs for my favorite set.

It's been over 6 years since the Trick Arrows set was released, and it hasn't received a buff that wasn't a bug fix or an animation time reduction since Issue 7... 5 1/2 years ago. And yet if you polled Defenders on which was the wimpiest Primary available to them, Trick Arrows would win, by a wide margin. Of course, one of them would always have to be "the worst," and maybe Trick Arrows is destined to always be that set, but I think there's plenty that can be done to shrink the margin between Trick Arrows and the other sets.

But first, where did it all go wrong? Heavy-handed 'nerfing' during beta with the addendum that it was easier to measure Trick Arrows performance and buff it back up if necessary now, rather than rein it in later, followed by not a single change to the set for the rest of the beta period. I believe after this point, we were told no more changes could be made for awhile (any more work on Issue 5 had been 'locked'), but that the performance of the set would be monitored closely. But minus a handful of buffs (to anything other than debuff values), bug fixes and animation time changes, it's been more or less the same ever since.

Well, given the latest round of review on other sets, I think maybe it's time to change that! I mean... please?

Note: Most of these will be unchanged from my last thread, as my suggestions for those powers hasn't changed.



1) Drop the Endurance Cost and Accuracy bonuses on this power
2) Increase the debuff values

My suggestion for this power remains the same as it's always been.

During beta of Issue 5, it was decided that Trick Arrows put out "too much -Recharge." Well, since then it seems that every other buff/debuff set that's been added can put out more -Recharge with one or two powers than Trick Arrows can with three (and that's on top of the fact that all other sets feature buffs).

So maybe it's time rethink how much is "too much" and give Trick Arrows back some of it's debuffing power by putting Entangling Arrow back at the same level as Web Grenade.

Since the increased Accuracy and Endurance Cost discount were given when this power's debuff was originally removed (and then later readded, at a much smaller value), I feel it's warranted that they be restored to their normal values if the debuffs are increased.

Decrease AccMod to 1.0
Increase EndCost to 7.8
Increase SpeedDebuff to -62.5% (-50% for Corr/MM)
Increase RechDebuff to -62.5% (-50% for Corr/MM)




I have no changes. I'm not saying Flash Arrow is great; it's not. But it functions just as well as any other -Perception power in the game. Better, in fact. I originally suggested it be swapped with Glue Arrow, but I have some suggested changes to Glue Arrow that would probably be too good for a tier 2 power.




1) Lower the Speed debuff
2) Increase the Recharge debuff
3) Add small chance to Hold

Trick Arrows currently has two powers that put enemies at the -RunSpeed cap: Glue Arrow and Oil Slick Arrow. But slowing down enemy movement isn't an effective debuff, besides making it easier to stay at range. So I suggest lowering the amount it can slow enemies movement, while increasing it's ability to slow enemies actions. Afterall, if it's really slowing down their ability to move their feet that much, why aren't their arms being slowed down as much?

Increasing the recharge debuff makes Glue Arrow, a staple power of the set, a much more effective debuff.

Also, taking precedence from powers in newer sets, I think Glue Arrow could use a new mechanic to make it more useful and attractive to players: Add chance to Hold! This would obviously be a small chance on a short duration Hold, but it would still be useful and appropriate for a power that's supposed to be putting down a strong adhesive (I'd like to see it use the 'struggling' animation from Frozen Aura, minus the ice).

Decrease SpeedDebuff to -60%
Increase RechDebuff to -30% to -40%
Add 2% chance for a 4s Mag3 Hold




1) Increase the debuff values

This is the third worst Hold in the game, only above Poison and Dark's debuff-less Holds, both of which are in sets already seen as better than Trick Arrows. Also, sticking to the Ice theme, this power's debuffs should at least be comparable to debuffs in similar Ice Blast and Ice Control Holds.

Increase SpeedDebuff to -25% (-20% for Corr/MM)
Increase RechDebuff to -25% (-20% for Corr/MM)




With the recent change to make this power a pulsing Sleep and -Damage effect, I think it's actually pretty decent now. It might require an Accuracy enhancement now, but it can potentially remove Minions from the fight for awhile and it has a pretty powerful -Damage debuff for enemies not put to Sleep.

If I had to think of something to change, I would add some other kind of effect to the gas. -HP, -Special, or -Regen, maybe. Something else that represents the effect of a poison.




1) Increase the resistance debuff value
2) Increase the radius of the AoE
3) Increase recharge timer

Not too long ago, I would have considered this power working just fine. Then came the Defender version of Acid Mortar, which is vastly superior in many, many ways. It debuffs defense more, it debuffs resistance more, it has longer range, it fires faster than Acid Arrow recharges, it can stack, and it can keep aggro off the caster. It even does more damage! Acid Arrow, once a unique power in the Trick Arrows set, is now overshadowed by a similar power, as most of Trick Arrows is.

Increasing the resistance debuff value would not only improve Acid Arrow compared to Acid Mortar, but it also improves the whole set for Controllers, Corruptors and Masterminds.

One of the benefits to choosing Trick Arrows as a Defender, is that you get Acid Arrow and Disruption Arrow; two sources of Resistance debuff that allow the Trick Arrows Defender to cause a higher value of -Resistance than other sets for more of the time (-40%).

But this doesn't really translate over to the other ATs' versions. They sit at the values they should, but because of issues with "psuedopets" in other sets, Acid Arrow and Disruption Arrow tend to be at equal or lower values by comparison with no compensation for the loss of something that is intended to be a reason for choosing Trick Arrows over the other sets, i.e. greater offense through more Resistance debuff.

Increasing the debuff of these powers restores that benefit to playing Trick Arrows on all ATs.

Increasing the radius of the AoE, well... 8 feet as a debuff radius is incredibly small. It's almost funny that the power has a 16 foe target max, because well... is it even possible to fit 16 enemies in to an 8 foot radius?

What good does having two Resistance debuffs do Trick Arrows if one has a small radius and the other can only affect 10 enemies at once? At best, Trick Arrows can debuff resistance by 40%, but only to 10 enemies, while other sets can get close (30%-35%) with a single power that can hit 16 enemies, and that can typically stack with itself (Tar Patch, Freezing Rain, Sleet).

If increasing the radius a bit means the recharge has to be increased as well, then so be it.

Increase Radius to 10ft to 15 ft
Increase Rech to 30s
Increase ResDebuff to -25%(-18.75% for Con/Corr/MM)




1) Decrease the endurance cost
2) Increase MaxTargets limit
3) Increase resistance debuff
4) Add -ToHit effect

This power has always been one of the most frustrating for me because of how poor it is compared to any other similar power, but how necessary it is for Trick Arrows to feel effective, especially while teaming.

Like Acid Arrow, increasing it's -Resistance debuff improves the set's effectiveness, while also restoring a benefit to the set that's been missing from the other ATs' versions.

The endurance cost has long been out of whack with it's effects: it's twice the cost of Tar Patch, which has a higher Resistance debuff, as well as a Speed debuff, and it's just short of the cost of Freezing Rain, which also has a higher Resistance debuff, as well as a Speed debuff, Recharge debuff, Defense debuff, and damage. Disruption Arrow does nothing that warrants a 14.56 endurance cost.

It's also limited to hitting only 10 enemies. The only other buff/debuff AoE powers that are limited to 10 targets are Fulcrum Shift and Heat Loss (both for obvious reasons), neither of which Disruption Arrow is even remotely comparable to.

In addition to fixing those inconsistencies, I also feel this power is a good place to add a small -ToHit effect to. Trick Arrows as a set needs more defensive debuffs, namely -ToHit, and Flash Arrow's debuff alone can't cut it. Adding -ToHit to Disruption Arrow not only fills that hole in a bit, it also:

A) Gives incentive to take Flash Arrow in order to stack both effects

B) Fits thematically with the Trick Arrows set, which works best when multiple arrows are used at once

C) Fits along the lines of Liquefy and Earthquake, which also reduce ToHit

D) Offers invention set options to a power which currently can't really be slotted for much

Decrease EndCost to 10.4
Increase MaxTargets to 16
Increase ResDebuff to -25% (-18.75% for Con/Corr/MM)
Add ToHitDebuff -6.25% (-5% for Con/Corr, -3.75% for MM)




No changes now that it correctly lights every time!




Also no changes. EMP Arrow has always been practically perfect in every way.

Also, I promised more begging, so... Can we get TA buffs, please? Can we get TA buffs, please? Can we get TA buffs, please? Can we have a pool, dad? Can we get TA buffs, please?

Also, I have just about no experience with Beam Rifle (having only a level 15 Defender with it). If there are any issues with it, please someone let me know.

Updated. It only took like... 2 years!

I know it's unlikely, buuut I hope a Stalker-only set comes out to make up for the lack of Titan Weapons (maybe just a smaller scythe, since it's really the size that's inappropriate, and it's the only weapon that's not a Final Fantasy-sized version of similar weapon sets). The only precedence for something like this I can reference is how Stalkers got skipped on Shield Defense, but so far Ninjitsu has remained exclusive to them (which may be for completely unrelated reasons, but I feel like that may be why).

Just for clarity, as I think there's some confusion here in wording:

Lethal and Smashing remain the most commonly resisted damage types. A large portion of the enemies in game usually have 10-30% resistance to these, especially Lethal (teh sad).

But Psionic and Toxic are the most heavily resisted. It's not as common to run in to something with Psionic or Toxic resistance as it is the other types in the game (especially pre-level 40), but most things with resistance to either usually has a lot of resistance to them, especially Toxic (which I remember some things had 100% resistance to).