Toril

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Which server is this? I'm curious which one always has one of every AT in every level range available when you need to put a team together.

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Heh. On Victory I don't have to look outside of my own SG to find one of every AT in every level range when I want to put a team together. If your server is that sparse you need to find a new home.

Sailor eX
"Not in the face!"

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Good lord, we even have had a player who played a Mind/Empath for 50 levels who has moved back an to original AT and that combo was like having a root canal with no anesthesia until the past few months.

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Now, c'mon. Having almost gotten mine up to 50, I wouldn't rate it any worse than 'poke in the eye with a sharp stick'. Maybe ordinary root canal. Root canal without anaesthetic? I think you're selling Mind/Empathy short.

The Kheldians can't be that bad.

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Lol. Near the end of her levels I felt sorry enough for her that I was providing her DPS.

When you have a Grav/Storm controller running around with you as your DPS you have serious issues. I killed more Death mages in the parking lot at Portal Corp for her in one day than most people ever want to think of seeing. aahahhaha


Sailor eX
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/signed!

That was so well put it was scary. I'm sure the "Soapbox 10" will tear you a new one for it though.

Sailor eX
"Not in the face!"

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Which is why after I tried the new Epics, I decided that a Claws/Regen Was more epic, and more fun for me to play...just my opinion.

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Heh. The opinion of many other people in my SG as well.

Sailor eX
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Damn straight. Every AT has weaknesses and strengths.

I learned my strengths and weaknesses as a scrapper, as a blaster, as a defender, and a kheld.

I've never complained about them to the degree I see on these boards. So yes, I feel obliged to make sure people know that khelds DO have a strength, and it is known about.

It jsut seems that the viewpoint gets so skewed with this talk of "you can't do a, b or c well", yet the magic is in that you can do all of them. Having played squishies and non-squishies, the power of turning from squishy to non-squishy seems to be seriously overlooked.

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The saddest part is that it is easier to make a Fire/Energy blaster into a tank than it is to make a Kheldian good at any role it could possible fill. Other than debt accumulator. It's really good at that.

The easiest way to avoid being squishy is to properly build your squishy. I've came up with all sorts of insane "thinking out of the box" builds that work in ways that other people can't fathom for various other ATs, but WSs have issues that are going to extend further and longer than even my original main did and I had no clue what the hell I was doing when I started playing her.

Sailor eX
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Come play a Warshade and then make the same statements. Even the people defending them point out that PBs have it better. Group members playing PBs are doing fine for the most part. Everyone else in the SG with a Kheld (27 L50s) has abandoned their shade save me and I am just holding out in hopes that the devs will fix the severe endurance problem and random aggro issue.

As far as naming any blaster at L23 that can out DPS you. That's a pretty simple task. I know Fire/Energy would be able to do it with ease. Several other combos should be able to as well, but Fire/Eng is the only one I have experience with.

Sailor eX
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Well, I played SR back before Issue 1 and liked it, so maybe I'm a masochist.....

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Yeah, I liked it to. The SR char in my tag was my first alt. The main reason I liked it was because I still looked essentially normal without a bunch of special effects cluttering my screen.

However now I see that the character had serious issues when compared to the other secondaries. Its hard to believe how glaring the problems were until you look at the fact that SR got a large buff, and regen and invuln both got nerfed for all 3 to be comparable.

Sailor eX
"Not in the face!"

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Still screwed over we are I see. Very sad.. Very sad indeed.

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And all the comments like it; Statesman, I'm very confident that you're smart enough to see through these comments. Not saying that Kheldians don't have issues, but there's a fix coming, and people shouldn't be whining until they've at least tried it with the fix.

To everyone else: Kheldians are NOT as gimped as people say. Mine is very good, sometimes outperforming others, often filling in and saving the day. They're harder sure, and maybe weaker, but with these changes they'll be graet. Normally I try to stay out of debates like this, but wanted to give a warning to new Kheldians, and reassurances to States that not everyone disagrees.

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You're right. At least half of the fellow 50s in my SG disagree. I have hopes that it can be fixed. They disagree and have already shelved both ATs in favor of combinations that have been broken for months that are now fixed. Essentially Dark Armor, Mind Control, Stone Armor and a few others are all new power sets, and everyone of them is probably better than the Epics.

Maybe 6 months from now the Kheldians will work as intended, but if you look at Statesman's own words as to his vision for the AT they clearly aren't working as intended. You have the best players in the game who have taken various character combos to 50 multiple times (many of us still here from beta) pointing out issues with the new ATs and the issues are not being addressed. Good lord, we even have had a player who played a Mind/Empath for 50 levels who has moved back an to original AT and that combo was like having a root canal with no anesthesia until the past few months.

Sailor eX
"Not in the face!"

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I4 is not far off. It's already being previewed.

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Um, I3 was on test for over a month, wasn't it? I4 isn't even on test yet. If you're going by your logic CoV isn't far away, nor is the next incarnation of the Windows OS. Both have "already been previewed".

Sailor eX
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Still screwed over we are I see. Very sad.. Very sad indeed.

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You made our primary a blast set but gave us less damage than two AT s that have damage sets as their secondaries.

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Agreed. Even if you're getting a 30% (say) damage bonus from the link, the lower base damage means you're still worse off blasting in human form than a Defender. Even if the secondary and link bonus gives you as much defense as a Defender's primary, I still don't see how you're coming out "second to none" on the damage/defense combo.

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Lol.

On a scale of 0 to 10, 10 being the greatest, we are a 1. 0 being "none", so in essence we are second to "none"

Sailor eX
"Not in the face!"

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Kyrin,

Please post your build so that the rest of us playing a Warshade can take a look at the unique build you've come up with that is useful. After many test respecs at L28 I'm not seeing any lights at the end of the tunnel other than a train.

Sailor eX
"Not in the face!"

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My build may not help you much especially at level 28. Warshades like most controllers are late bloomers. Things didn't start to turn around for me until I picked up Dark Extraction at level 32. I also did a few things that you might not want to do especially if you are not planning on using all three forms. You can find my build in the same thread as my Warshade Three Form Guide.

Those of us happy with our kheldians, despite the issues with them, are not sticking our heads in the sand. We're just more patient with the AT and willing to wait for the proposed change the devs said they would make for Kheldians around Issue 4.

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The biggest problem I have is that is seems that the devs are ignoring the problems altogether or putting them off while other things are worked on. If one project has problems and you've already released it to your customers you don't just toss it on the shelf and move on to the next project. This theory has only managed to work for Microsoft and to a lesser extent Sony. Even Sony is taking the initiative to fix problems quickly now that they have competition.

Knowing that the Warshade is crap until 32 at least gives me an answer though. My first char was a Grav/Storm controller and it was essentially crap until it hit 32 as well.

Thanks,
Sailor eX
"Not in the face!"

Kyrin,

Please post your build so that the rest of us playing a Warshade can take a look at the unique build you've come up with that is useful. After many test respecs at L28 I'm not seeing any lights at the end of the tunnel other than a train.

Sailor eX
"Not in the face!"

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on a full team, have a combination of defense and ranged offense that's second to none

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Umm, isn't that supposed to be a defender's role?

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Defenders have terrible defense and lower range offense than a Blaster. So no.

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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH! Thats frigging comedy gold right there. 3/5 Defender primaries have awesome defense. The AT name kind of gives it away.

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Perhaps they can give OTHER players awesome defense, but they sure don't have any themselves. I've never seen a Defender herding mobs before.

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Storm Summoning and Force Field can herd, not sure of the others. I can herd with my controller using the SS secondary, so I know that a defender should be able to do it better. If I remember correctly Rad should actually the be most effective at if they know how to use RI properly.

Sailor eX
"Not in the face!"

Alyssa,

Many of us are just trying to get problems with the new ATs fixed. It's easy to stick your head in the dirt like an ostrich and say there are no problems at all, when both ATs each have issues. Warshades have serious Endurance and unexplained Aggro issues that appear to be a bug. We just want these things fixed, or they'll fall along the same line as many other powersets have over the past many months. Mind Control, SR, DA, Stone Armor, etc. These have finally had their issues addressed, but only after many many posts of complaints and frustration from a larger player base than even has access to the "Epic" ATs. The community with access to Epic ATs are small, so those of us that do have access to them need to point out the problems or discrepancies with them so when other players eventually get to them they won't have to deal with the beta testing of them that we are.

It is most unfortunate that most people hop in here and tell everyone there is nothing wrong at all with "Kheldians" when the two ATs within the race are as different as night and day. When it comes down to it 90% of the people saying there aren't any problems are playing Peacebringers and the other 10% aren't paying any attention to the fact that they are eating through twice as much end as a Peacebringer with less effect on their Warshade.

Sailor eX
"Not in the face!"

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Do you know this for a fact?

Correct me if I am wrong here, but CoV is in development and the classes and powers have not been released and PvP setup is in mind.

Hard to be certain of anything in regards to CoV.

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If you think the devs are gonna let you have fire imps at 14 in CoV then I'd like to have some of what you're on. We don't know much about CoV, and common sense and the devs doesn't mix much, but they aren't gonna let you have a 9th tier power at 14.

Sailor eX
"Not in the face!"

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You can call them what you like, but they are no different then what we have agreed is a hazard zone. The spawn sizes are no different for a single person then for an 8 person team. I checked that today just to be sure I hadn't missed anything.

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Nope. Go to Atlas Park. Count the number of foes in a spawn. Go to Faultline. Count the number of spawns. Atlas Park - city zone. Faultline - Trial Zone.

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Faultline is now a trial zone instead of a hazard zone?

I thought it was always a hazard zone that no one hunted in.

Sailor eX
"Not in the face!"

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Put your group of eight together. It doesn't really matter what you put in the group with one exception. I'll get to the exception.
I will outrun them and not by a little. At level 38 we clocked it. I earned XP at a rate of 190,000 per hour solo. Go to whatever zone you like. Good luck. How about Crey's Follies? Is that hazard enough? Freaks. Carnival area by the Rikti crash site.
Then I will assemble a group of 4 and we will outrun them again.
Then I will assemble a group of 2 and we will outrun the four.


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You're absolutely correct. The problem is, once again, that the high level players (38) can battle against foes that are much, much higher level than they are. A small group of said heroes can find a spawn appropriate for them...whereas what's tough enough for a full group of 8 level 38's? It's much, much tougher for that large group to find something that's a challenge - and can give them great XP - than it is for the the small group.

That issue is next up - right after the Expansion goes live.

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Yay! Hopefully in time that I can enjoy it with my epic AT char.

Sailor eX
"Not in the face!"

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If 1 hero takes out 12 minions, by your own math, that is 480 xp just for him. To get the same 480 xp each, your group of 8 has to kill 55 minions in the same time period. Your groups cannot kill 55 as fast as a decent soloer can kill 12.

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Actually, they can. IF the group goes to the zones with the spawns of the appropriate size...

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Where is this zone with a spawn of 55? I've been all over test in update 2 and haven't found it yet.

Sailor eX
"Not in the face!"

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Here are the cliff notes. The xp gained per mob defeated goes down as you add players. At 4 players, you have capped the difficulty of mobs you can face (+4 your level) and have found the largest concentration of mobs you can face. THE XP LOST DUE TO ADDITIONAL PLAYERS CAN NO LONGER BE MADE UP BY FIGHTING HIGHER LEVEL MOBS OR MORE MOBS BECAUSE OF THE PURPLE PATCH


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Just so that I'm clear - the larger the group, the larger the spawn. The problem is not the "purple patch" - the problem is that players are approaching MOB spawns that are simply too small for their group.

Oh - low level trials - Sewers (upper). Faultline.

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And it is impossible to find spawns large enough to challenge at 8 person group outside of a controlled environment.

Trial areas are controlled environments. Missions are controlled environments.

The purple patch is the problem at this point, but you keep dodging the issue. Either that or you cannot fathom why a group of 8 would rather run around in a street or hazard zone than doing a trial for the umpteenth time. Repetition isn't fun. Variety is the spice of life. Trials are the only option you are offering at the present, and those are very limited in number and are level restrictive.

Right now we're faced with repetition and no challenge with a change of scenery on occasion, or your suggestion of repetition with the exact same scenery every time.

Sorry to say it, but you do keep dodging it. You must have picked up the new elude and 6 slotted it.

Sailor eX
"Not in the face!"

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Ah - this is somewhat unrelated. The game is too easy at higher levels. Larger groups need to hunt higher level spawns in order to find challenge, and therefore fun.

The missions at levels 30+ contain foes -1,0,+1 to the level of the mission holder (or at least the level he was when he received the mission). Those foes are trivially easy for players at those levels. Thus, they go to street sweeping - because the fun is at fighting foes +5 levels - and consequently they receive A LOT of experience points.

The goal (eventually) is to make the +1,0,-1 level spread as fun at 30th level as it was at 10th level.

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Ah, but my question is, is the game TRULY too easy for the majority of players post 30? Or, is it just too easy for the very vocal 1% min/maxers that post on these forums? Will significantly increasing the difficulty end up making it too hard for most people?

This is not a troll or flame; I'm really curious about that. I don't have any high-level characters because I am an alt-junkie and doomed to forever have characters in the lower half of the game. But, when the day comes that I have 20 characters simultaneously reaching 35th level, I'd hate to find that the high end game had been taken over by all the players that can p0wnzers j00!

Dwimble

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SOs really change the face of the game. The mobs themselves for the most part do really become that easy for the average player(with SOs). However the xp gradient goes up so sharply that they need to be to make any progress.

Making them just as fun as they were at level 10 will be great if its truly just as fun. Level 10 to 11 doesn't take that long to accomplish regardless of the AT. Level 30-31 can seem like an eternity can seem like an eternity depending on the AT.

Sailor eX
'Not in the face!"

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A well prepared group of 5-8 mows through introductory purples just as easily as it mows through even cons. Anything bigger than that is a brick wall due to the purple patch scaling upwards too sharply.


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Ah - this is somewhat unrelated. The game is too easy at higher levels. Larger groups need to hunt higher level spawns in order to find challenge, and therefore fun.

The missions at levels 30+ contain foes -1,0,+1 to the level of the mission holder (or at least the level he was when he received the mission). Those foes are trivially easy for players at those levels. Thus, they go to street sweeping - because the fun is at fighting foes +5 levels - and consequently they receive A LOT of experience points.

The goal (eventually) is to make the +1,0,-1 level spread as fun at 30th level as it was at 10th level.

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This would be a very rewarding change indeed. However if mobs are going to become X more difficult they should also give X more xp. I have always thought that mobs for the most part got pathetically easy at higher levels to compensate for the insane xp gradient that a player becomes faced with.

More challenge and more xp for the mobs we fight will be very welcome at higher levels. In essence players, at least in my SG, prefer to have a challenge over xp. (Hence jumping at the chance to go on AV missions with large groups post 40.)

However if the mobs become just as challenging as they were Pre-SOs to players then xp really needs to be adjusted to make players still feel like they are accomplishing something.

As it is now, some players still spend a week getting from one level to the next post 30. Making mobs more difficult without an xp increase would be another nail in the coffin for them.

Sailor eX
"Not in the face!"

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Couple that with the enormous penalty for grouping beyond the 4rth person and you just don't see large teams anymore.

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Penalty for more than 4 people? Certainly not XP wise; players get an XP bonus for having larger and larger groups. What are you referring to?

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Perhaps he's a powergamer refering to the infamous "Purple Patch". It seems that certain larger groups don't think they're getting worthwhile XPs unless they're able to defeat +10 level mobs. I don't know, that's just a guess.

Dwimble

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At this point it doesn't even come down to the xp. Most xp you're going to get is for +6. With this in place, why should the purple patch be in place?

They fixed the purple patch's main reason for existence already. Why not remove it now?

Sailor eX
"Not in the face!"

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Couple that with the enormous penalty for grouping beyond the 4rth person and you just don't see large teams anymore.

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Penalty for more than 4 people? Certainly not XP wise; players get an XP bonus for having larger and larger groups. What are you referring to?

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Larger and Larger groups can take down larger and larger prey. With a group of 5-8 there is little to no group of mobs that will challenge a group of that size post purple patch.

A well prepared group of 5-8 mows through introductory purples just as easily as it mows through even cons. Anything bigger than that is a brick wall due to the purple patch scaling upwards too sharply.

Whether you wanted it or not you created a very fun environment pre-purple patch for large groups doing street hunting. Groups of 8 could battle a group of +10s over the course of several minutes and a few close calls, potentially a death and have alot of fun for alot of reward.

Now you can go toe to toe with the same group of +10s and either get killed for no reason(artificial brick wall), or if your group is good enough you can potentially have a fight lasting 10-15 minutes that is a stalemate. That scenario can be exciting, but not very fun, considering 90% of the attacks are whiffs.

Relaxing the purple patch allowed teams to team up again in groups of 8 and do missions and still be entertained to some good degree, but the horrible xp (for missions) and being sent from the far f00king end of Founders Falls to the heart of PP made this become seriously draining and annoying.

My preference in play now is still groups of 8 running missions, because I have fun due to the people I'm with. Not due to the content I'm experiencing. (Or the insane travel times, even with a maxed out travel power.)

Groups of 8 hunting +10s in Brickstown was the most fun I have had in this game. Only got to do it a few times, but I actually felt like I would die or be seriously injured with any wrong move and it put my team to a true test and that was hellaciously fun.

That's just my opinion, but it also seems to be the opinion of several other players who have been around since beta and pre-order.

Many people that have discovered the forums that are currently around don't even have any clue as to what the purple patch was, therefore they haven't had the excitement that came before it and have no reason to believe that what seems to be good, used to be that much better.

Sailor eX
"Not in the face!"

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For those who do not think power leveling hurts everyone else consider this. More then half the current L50 hero’s were power leveled at least part of the way. A great many were PL’d most of the way. (And, a great many of those that were not power leveled made extensive use of some form of exploit or overpowered power like burn, caltrops, smoke grenade or some undesirable technique like AoE blast and run or herding. )

The fact is, on most servers there are only a small handful of people who have actually earned a L50 character at this point. Yet the devs use these numbers to determine things like the rate at which they want people to hit 50 and the rate at which they want to give out rewards like Epic AT’s.

Power leveling helps to completely hide the incredible grind most people face. This grind seriously hampers the fun factor of everyone else who plays the game.

Secondly when players do put their blood sweat and tears into accomplishing something it is seen as old hat bye most since they have already seen it dozens of times over, much of the time from people who never paid their dues.

For example I was one of the first eng blasters to hit level 32 on my server. Nearly every time I played with a new person, even in my 40’s, I got the “Holy S***” reaction the first time they saw it. Today anyone with a high level character can build themselves an eng blaster in a few days and get Nova if they want it. (Most are to busy building fire controllers or scrappers)

It’s no longer special unique or particularly hard to get so the people that actually earn it are completely derived of the satisfaction of doing so. How do you think people will feel about finally getting their epic AT’s knowing that thousands of people got theirs simply by having someone build a L50 for them without ever putting forth any effort. I don’t care what you may claim there is no satisfaction in working your [censored] off for something that most others are getting for free.

Finally it helps create situations where people with high level characters simply do not know how to play them because they never had to learn.

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I'd like to find these people you speak of that will PL a char for me from 2-50 with no effort of myself. These must be some hellacious friends or seriously bored people.

Most currrent L50s earned it already bub. If you want to point fingers at eBay purchased accounts and such feel free, but don't crap on people that have put 478 hours into getting a char to L50 just because you have some sort of jealousy.

Sailor eX
"Not in the face!"