The_RaZ

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I agree, Doms are just plain worse compared to Controllers.

But we don't compete with controllers(outside of PvP). What we have to consider is the role of the Dominator in CoV with the 4 other ATs we play with. Can we focus on that more instead of the CoH class comparison?

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However the problem with our Primaries goes back to Controllers, or more specifically the design choices made to shape how Trollers work in the game. Break Frees, Suppression and Purple Triangles were designed and implemented with Controllers in mind. Sure they nuke the Controllers primary, but he has a buff/debuff secondary and damage from either a pet, pools, or APPs. So there was a sort of balance.

Then along came CoV and Dominators. The Dom is supposedly balanced with low damage and low hit points because of his ability to mez his enemies, however that equation falls apart when faced with the game mechanics designed to make the Controller work.

The problem with Dominator holds is the game, not Dominator holds. The issue gets even worse when compared side by side with Corruptors when planning for AVs and PvP.

Basically, on the front of Dominator Primaries, the devs need to come up with game mechanices that reduce, rather than enhance, the binary nature of holds. One idea is the addition of secondary effects to holds that have been suggested multiply times by many people on these forums.

Add some extra damage and it would be a huge step in the right direction.

It's nice to see more than just Dominator players refuting that statement. Thanks.

Thanks for posting Positron. I have been one who has really complained about a lack of dev input to the Dom forums and I am glad that you finally gave us some feedback.


I love the idea of some Mez protection/resistance coming our way, but I think it misses some of the boat.

I like the theme since Posi's post of buffing Dominators, not Domination, but I don't think we need to Offer a Nerf to get a buff that we deserve.

Frankly, I think the problem with our control is not with us or our AT, but with the game. Too many other CoV ATs can attain good control without giving up anything. Also, there are too many unimaginative game mechanics in place to gimp control. Reduce the effectiveness of or remove entirely Corruptor control powers and come up with better answers for Break Frees, Suppression and Purple Triangles and I think any and all control complaints will go away.

Our secondary sets are where we need AT internal changes. Our damage is just sub par. It is sad to join a team, attack a mob and have the one or two enemies that you focus on continually finished off for you by a Brute or Corruptor.

Ok, so in a vain attempt to calm this thread down, I would like to ask if anyone has succeeded in creating a Double Domination situation outside of the two posted here that involve the destroyed lab equipment hasten boost?

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Dominators can hold an enemy, making it unable to act, THEN use some blaster powers to quickly take the enemy down.

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If we could actually routinely do that, you wouldn't hear so many complaints about doms.

Dom damage up until mid-30s or so is weak, and even then it's average at best. Dom aoe control isn't any good at all until completely slotted out with SOs. Are there ways of dealing with these problems so that playing a dom can be enjoyable? Yes -- and we spend a great deal of time on this board suggesting and reporting slotting and power selection and usage to make the most of what we have. But the idea that doms are uber tank mages seems to far overestimate what the great majority of dom builds can do over the great majority of their careers.

And that's not even considering the triangles of death which, all by itself, is a huge problem for the AT.

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Not to mention PvP issues for doms....

Low damage (comparatively)
Low hitpoints
Low ability to protect oneself (ie. shields and mez protection)
Easily negated primary set (not to mention Suppression, a game mechanic in place to nerf our means of defense!)

All of those add of up an unfair uphill battle in my opinion. You can point to just about any other AT that has one or two of those, but is usually compensated for it with the others, however only doms seem to be fine in the Devs mind with all of those disadvantages.

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Don't worry, the devs don't read this board

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I wouldn't say that.

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I have to add that this kind of pisses me off too. I don't know how long or in how many threads we have wished/demanded/asked for/requested/begged for dev comment on this AT, what it is supposed to do, what they think it needs to be more competitive in both PvE and PvP, etc....and this is the kind of dev comments we get.

This and the locking of threads because we get angry with each other because we are constantly left to speculate what the devs are thinking about our beloved AT.


Come on Posi, give us a little more feedback on our AT. I assume you aren't on some kind of word credits and can spare more than 4 for this little segment of your player base.

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The only reason my team walked through this so easily is because we have almost the perfect setup played by highly skilled players coordinating our efforts almost perfectly. And we still had a hard time. I really doubt that most teams will be that good; let alone bring the right powersets.

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You might be absolutely right about that (I have to differ to your judgement considering you have done it and I haven't even tried yet) but that means there is a severe issue with this SF that needs to be addressed. I would be "I quit this game" kind of angry if the only way I could get some SHOEs for my Dominator was to level up a Corruptor to go through the SF for him.

Starfield,

Would you mind (or anyone on the team) commenting on the capabilities of the AVs? Things like buff/debuffer, purple triangles (mag resistance), health, other capabilities or weaknesses?

Congrats. Amazing job. I agree with the comment about it being messed up that it seems to depend on specific builds in the team.

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Just added this patch note to PvP section:

Being defeated in a PvP zone will carry debt if any of the damage to you was caused by NPCs. The amount of debt is directly proportional to the amount of damage you took from NPCs vs. how much was done by opposing Player Characters. The more damage dealt to you by NPCs means more debt when you are defeated.

* This means that you can no longer “escape debt” by being defeated by a PC after taking massive damage from NPCs, nor will you be penalized with a massive amount of debt if you are defeated by an NPC after taking a huge amount of damage from a PC.

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I am seeing this as having an effect (and possbily a drastic one) on players trying to wrestle control of a pillbox, etc..., from the hands of opposing players. Or will the damage from the turrets not count toward this?

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Opening the handy spreadsheet to a random control power in the Dominator section, I see Cinders.

Cinders has 4 Hold entries.
1) Hold vs Critters. It is Duration Scale 8, which is affected by Enhancements, AT mods and Level Scale. It has a fixed Magnitude of 3. The Mag increasing in the Guide is erroneous.
2) Hold vs Players. It is Duration Scale 6, which is affected by Enhancements, AT mods and Level Scale. It has a fixed Magnitude of 4. It is subject to Suppression. The Mag increasing in the Guide is erroneous.
3) A second Hold vs Critters, which stacks with the first one. It is Duration Scale 12, which is affected by Enhancements, AT mods and Level Scale. It has a fixed Magnitude of 3. The Mag increasing in the Guide is erroneous. This entry only activates when Domination is active.
4) A second Hold vs Players, which stacks with the first one. It is Duration Scale 8, which is affected by Enhancements, AT mods and Level Scale. It has a fixed Magnitude of 4. The Mag increasing in the Guide is erroneous. This entry only activates when Domination is active.

WAY back on the original subject:
Aim is a scale 5 To Hit buff for all Aim and Aim equivalent powers (amplify). That Scale is multiplied by 0.1 * AT Mod. For a Corruptor, that is +42.5% or 142.5% * Base To Hit. In PvE, that is 106.875% To Hit. In PvP, it is 71.25% To Hit.
Aim is also a Scale 5 Damage buff. That's a +42.5% damage increase.

Build Up is a Scale 2 To Hit Buff, or +20% for a Brute, and a scale 8 Damage Buff, or a +80% damage increase.

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Thanks for the information Castle, but...

I would like to just point out that this is the first red name response, that I know of, in relation to ANYTHING dominator related outside of PMs...and it wasn't even in the Dominator forum or i7 Dominator feedback changes thread on test. As a matter of fact, it came on an off topic statement on Build and Aim.


Yeah, I went there.

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I don't understand why people who play ranged ATs think that characters that devote an entire powerset to defense shouldn't have that defense in PVP.

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Kali, I don't think this is what I was saying...

I know your opinion on TD - unnecessary kludge mechanics that is not needed anymore. So, do you think this is a good fix to the problem?

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So, it's okay to have powersets that can completely detoggle a melee character with combined toggle drops and mezzes?

And this doesn't count as not having that defense in PVP?

As far as I'm concerned, toggle-dropping should probably just go away entirely. Find some other way to balance PVP.

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If you are refering to Dominators, then the implication that Toggle Dropping and Mezing together is overpowered is so far off base that its sad.

Even with the minor buffs received by Doms with i7, they still have easily the steepest challenge in PvP. Frankly, if toggle dropping is going to stay in PvP, then Doms should get an increased likelyhood. After all, if a low hit point and miniscule defense Dom actually survives melee long enough to detoggle a Tank or Scrapper, then mez them, they deserver to get the kill. But after all that work the Tank or Scrapper can simply pop a breakfree and negate the Doms primary or wait on Suppression to kick in because a Dom's low damage will likely let the battle go that distance.

Maybe he was pointing out that the tools for accomplishing the tasks in the game are more diverse that the need for tools.

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I am changing my vote a little.


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Glad your back with us. We were getting worried.

I am not sure how they can fix that though, becuase the damage is not just based on the power, but on the AT modifier for ranged or melee. I guess it would require someone manually changing the tex for each and every power, which if it is going to take them off of some progress on i7, then I would be against. Besides, what does Superior mean anyways in regards to damage?

Being 2-3 shotted through the shields a Corruptor can give you isn't much fun either....

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I still think a hitpoint boost would be good though - we are still far too vulnerable without very specific builds (leaping and medicine are essentially required for a Dom to be vaguely viable in PvP at the moment - I don't think that should be the case).

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I think this is one of my biggest issues with the state of Doms right now. Basically that anyone with any success to report had to have these to Power Pools in their build. Ideally PvP would be a place where a variety of ways to get the job done could meet, but for Doms its Leaping and healing or your toast.

Despite the negative nature of the feedback (as in lack of dominator success), I am happy to hear this. Hopefully this will finally clue the devs in that more changes are necessary.

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Here are my 3 thoughts.

1 the patron power selection is weak. I would rather have mez protection and NO defense or resistance then a weak resistance toggle running. I would stay exactly as I am and have status protection then have any resistance for my toon. I dont see how this would be a balance issue if you make this swap.

2 why on earth give us another attack? we have an entire secondary with way better powers that dont cost 20 endo or recharge in 30 sec. I intent to skip them when taking my secondary.

3. why are we getting endo buffs when 2 secondaries already grant endo buffs, and domination gives an endo buff? If we cant work our endo woes with 1 or both of these you have a problem with the AT design. too little damage or too high endo cost.

Sorry but I am seriously dissapointed with the direction of the PPP. I will take the shield and maybe the endo recovery because the AT is soo goofy, but I can think of about a dozen alternatives to the ones given that I would delete high level heros for. I really hoped that the PPP would open a new door for the DOminators not dwarf them into oblivion by granting us the same damndable powers that the others get.

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All good points. Nice to see a new name here addressing issues for Doms.

Sounds like a neat idea, it would be very interesting as to where you might find the ball on occasion.

After alot of the discussion, I am getting on board with the increase hp to blaster levels. I would also like the tank level damage, but I don't think that is as important.

Now here is a crazy idea, what if we got some sort of containment like love where the damage is doubled only from our secondary, when applied to a held target? Maybe only during domination?

Also (and this may be a good point for your test), Infernal is a hard Hero to hold even on live. Just keep that in mind.

I'll support you. I too would like mez resistance. Throw it in our PPP shields to make them even more enticing. That way it can stack with Acrobatics too.

Also, while I am sticking my neck out, how about blaster hp?

Has anyone been able to deduce the actual defense numbers from Scorpion Shield?

At this point I'd like them to switch or Primary and Secondary so that Control wasn't our focus. Then it wouldn't be such a big issue with holds being such a all or nothing issue for Doms. But that is wishful thinking.