The_Foo

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yup, I agree. I'm not ranting at people who say toon. I just think the term is a diminutive one, and trivialises its subject. When I hear someone use it, I don't shout, but I consider it a mark against them in my mind. Why?

Look at the reasons people are giving for using the term. "I heard it first," or "These are just animated cartoons in a game," etc.

The first is simply one of first exposure. It'd be like calling your genitals a peepee for the rest of your life because that's what you heard first. That's not a very compelling reason to me.

The others seem to revolve around people's conception of their "toon" being just some in-game thing they make use of and exists nowhere else. To me, that speaks to a certain attitude towards their creation that I don't share. For me to spend the many hours we do with these things, they'd better damn well be something more than just a flat in-game "toon". I want a character.

That doesn't make me right, but it does tend to make people that say toon, "not my kind of people", the same way it might someone who refers to "bitchiz an' hos".

[/ QUOTE ]

See I can't see giving the word that kind of power. The negative connotations you are applying to it are of your own creation. I have yet to read one person in game use it as a derogatory term. To compare it to "bitchiz an' hos" is a bit of a stretch; IMHO; as the base words themselves are negative connotations themselves when used to refer to a human female.
Just for the record I'm not actually a kid myself I'm 34 with wife and children of my own. Also all my avatars are what you would refer to as characters, full bios and such.
I just don't see the point of getting my feathers in a ruffle or holding it against someone if they refer to my Harley as a bike. People will generally give you much better reasons to get pissed at them.
And not to quote myself, but
"Words have as much power as the listener gives them."

[/ QUOTE ]
All words have power, just as they have meaning. Which is not to say that, again, I'm getting my panties in a bunch over this. I'm not.

Let me be clear: I don't really *care* if someone uses the word "toon". I just don't like the use of it, for stated reasons, and using counts as a (very small) mark against in my books.

My feathers aren't in a ruffle, and I'm not saying that the term is in the same boat or degree as bitchiz an' hos. I'm just saying that it's inaccurate, puerile and diminutive, and speaks to a certain outlook which I don't tend to identify with. That's all.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Honestly, I use 'toon', 'char', 'character', etc. pretty much interchangably. Why does anyone care so much?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah - I've never understood why there is so much debate call them whatever ya want...........I think I'll just start call chartoonters, or toonacters, or maybe just feags. Does it really matter.

[/ QUOTE ]
I've never understood why someone would post, "I don't know what the big deal is" when an entire thread exists preceding their post that explains why.

Fruit on the bottom, I believe.

Yup, I agree. I'm not ranting at people who say toon. I just think the term is a diminutive one, and trivialises its subject. When I hear someone use it, I don't shout, but I consider it a mark against them in my mind. Why?

Look at the reasons people are giving for using the term. "I heard it first," or "These are just animated cartoons in a game," etc.

The first is simply one of first exposure. It'd be like calling your genitals a peepee for the rest of your life because that's what you heard first. That's not a very compelling reason to me.

The others seem to revolve around people's conception of their "toon" being just some in-game thing they make use of and exists nowhere else. To me, that speaks to a certain attitude towards their creation that I don't share. For me to spend the many hours we do with these things, they'd better damn well be something more than just a flat in-game "toon". I want a character.

That doesn't make me right, but it does tend to make people that say toon, "not my kind of people", the same way it might someone who refers to "bitchiz an' hos".

[ QUOTE ]
Since the execution of both the character and the story are paramount and execution of said story is evoked through the medium of internet gameplay as a sort of virtual performance art, I've decided to call mine a "thespian's ongoing online novella".

Since that's so long, I'll just abbreviate it to T.O.O.N. and assume everyone who's anyone knows what I mean.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'll allow this if you continue to use the punctuation to denote it as an acronym.

[ QUOTE ]
The only rational way to solve this disagreement is to pick an independant third party. Someone intelligent. Important. Someone named after a god. Someone with a son named Khan. You know.. that kind of person is always good to settle debates like this. Then just ask that person how the world should proceed and then everyone can just do as that person (whoever that person happens to be) says.

[/ QUOTE ]
Ha! No one who named their son "Khan" could possibly be intelligent. Come up with better criteria for choosing!

[ QUOTE ]
Virtue has tons of artists and Art, im in one sg with

Graver,Arcaine,Starchasm and we are coalitioned with Plasmastream and Rowrs group

to give an example

[/ QUOTE ]
No one ever invites me to the parties... *weepweep*

[ QUOTE ]
In the end, everyone seems to understand instantly when I use "toon" so I just used it out of courtesy and clarity of understanding. Same reason I chat (and to some extent type in forums like thes) using "chatspeak" but write formal correspondence in proper English.

[/ QUOTE ]
Damn it, forums are proper English! Chatspeak is for telephone texting and people who put their time above others' understanding!

Go to your room and type out one thousand Hail Marys.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
the fact is that "Toon" is a very specific term outside of games that, while derived from "cartoon", carries the connotations of the "Looney Tunes" set of characters and the later "Tiny Toons".

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, it doesn't have those limited connotations to me. To me it means animated character.

I use the term rarely, preferring character, alt, etc. But I do use it from time to time. I also occasionally use the term "avatar", but that usually connotates a representation of the user, and I don't at all think of my characters here as "me".

In reference to someone else's post, I was exclusively an FPS player before I found CoH. I don't think I had a name for my representation in those games. That was "me".

[/ QUOTE ]
But I wrote more words about this! Go back and read!

Also: Your connotations are different and therefore wrong!

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I use toon, simply because my "characters" exist in the pen and paper rpg world. The ones I've created here simply don't have the same feel or intensity.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well who's fault is that?

Each one of my characters has a background and motivation, even if I haven't committed them to text.

[/ QUOTE ]
So do mine, but when you get right down to it, they don't matter. A pen & paper character's background and motivation are important because they'll be integrated in the campaign. This character would do this because of X event in his past, but he won't do that because he's afraid of Y due to Z, and so on. The constructed personality does more than shape the character. It has an effect on the course of events.

In this game, whatever personality you concoct doesn't really have all that much effect. It might influence the powers you pick some. It might affect the contacts you decide to run. That's about it. The game itself progresses about the same way to about the same denouement with a personality you layered on top of your guy for aesthetics.

In a game like Fallout or Bloodlines or Fable or Star Control 2 or Neverwinter Nights or something, where the in-game decisions you make have an effect on the outcome of stories, even if it's just the side quests, those feel like characters.

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree with you, but they matter to me! The fact that we're all trapped in this spandex combat simulator doesn't mean I have to accept that that's all there is to my characters.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Simple, they're animated characters.
Cartoon -> Toon.

If this seems frivolous, consider that perhaps your exposure to mature animation is more limited than your exposure to gaming or comics.

I would not call, for instance, "Graveyard of the Fireflies" frivolous or childish. It is a fairly straightforward drama and one of the few movies that can make me cry sober.

On the American side, consider something like "Cool World" which was certainly frivolous in its own way, but was definitely not a 'kiddie' show. Still, many of the lead characters in that were animated.

For me, toon is a reference to an animated character not directly derived from real life imagery. Your 'character' happens to be animated in real time by a computer, but is no less animated than Bugs Bunny.

My 2 influence of course.

[/ QUOTE ]
References to Fireflies or Cool World aside, the fact is that "Toon" is a very specific term outside of games that, while derived from "cartoon", carries the connotations of the "Looney Tunes" set of characters and the later "Tiny Toons".

So while, yeah, it refers to any animated character, some people are going bristle at the application of it as much as a mechanic might when called a "grease monkey".

Personally, I prefer to think of my characters as characters. They are not tied to the medium of the game. I would submit that players that prefer not to be called or not to use the term toon do so, whether consciously or not, because they feel their character supercedes their representation in one medium or another. For example, Superman isn't a "toon". He's a character, and has a life beyond comics, cartoons, or whatever.

So, similarly, they are not "toons", but the characters have been made into "toons".

I also feel weird being compared (unintentionally) to Daffy Duck or Bugs Bunny.

PS: You're despicable.

[/ QUOTE ]

Photon theekers, GO!!

[/ QUOTE ]
You thir, have made a powerthul enemy.

[ QUOTE ]
Simple, they're animated characters.
Cartoon -> Toon.

If this seems frivolous, consider that perhaps your exposure to mature animation is more limited than your exposure to gaming or comics.

I would not call, for instance, "Graveyard of the Fireflies" frivolous or childish. It is a fairly straightforward drama and one of the few movies that can make me cry sober.

On the American side, consider something like "Cool World" which was certainly frivolous in its own way, but was definitely not a 'kiddie' show. Still, many of the lead characters in that were animated.

For me, toon is a reference to an animated character not directly derived from real life imagery. Your 'character' happens to be animated in real time by a computer, but is no less animated than Bugs Bunny.

My 2 influence of course.

[/ QUOTE ]
References to Fireflies or Cool World aside, the fact is that "Toon" is a very specific term outside of games that, while derived from "cartoon", carries the connotations of the "Looney Tunes" set of characters and the later "Tiny Toons".

So while, yeah, it refers to any animated character, some people are going bristle at the application of it as much as a mechanic might when called a "grease monkey".

Personally, I prefer to think of my characters as characters. They are not tied to the medium of the game. I would submit that players that prefer not to be called or not to use the term toon do so, whether consciously or not, because they feel their character supercedes their representation in one medium or another. For example, Superman isn't a "toon". He's a character, and has a life beyond comics, cartoons, or whatever.

So, similarly, they are not "toons", but the characters have been made into "toons".

I also feel weird being compared (unintentionally) to Daffy Duck or Bugs Bunny.

PS: You're despicable.

Gonads. Hahah. Gonads. Gonads.

OK, so I got the size stuff straightened out and after a hellish couple of days at my real job (*weepweep*), I will be finishing up the inks on a couple of pieces SOON™, after which I will be starting work on a pet project of my own that I will share with all of you fine people!

[ QUOTE ]
I wanted to work in his sorcerus heritage a lot more then his simple look allowed, and what would be more sorcerus then to adorn ones execution weapon with the markings of ones power, transforming a simple weapon into a sacred tool for bustin' caps.

[/ QUOTE ]
And lo', he did busteth caps, and it was GOOD.

Your circle makes me feel a square.

You put me in the same boat as Bob.

[ QUOTE ]
a great

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm pretty sure he's not doing that correctly. Or maybe I have for all these years...

I peed.

PVP CATGIRLS RUIN THE GAME, TROLL!!

[ QUOTE ]
I got the free version of Poser5 and that works pretty well, but I can't figure out how to get clothes off of the stupid mode

[/ QUOTE ]
You have to start with a clothingless model, for one. There should be a few available standard with the program. You can also set genitalia on/off in the menu, depending on whether you need full detail, or if Barbie/Ken will do...

Also: bums are poor models. They generally leave a bit to be desired, and more than a few weird stains.

*edit* Yarr, avast!

[ QUOTE ]
i don't actively look at naked guys though

[/ QUOTE ]
Not actively...

[ QUOTE ]
And yes, I still do take commissions (who spread the rumors that I didn't anyway?).

[/ QUOTE ]
Not me. I swear to gob.

[ QUOTE ]
rucking rawsome ! Great work as always Graver ....
im not gonna be sleeping tonight tho

[/ QUOTE ]
You mean "racking rawsome, Raggy".

Yes, her pelvis is quite forward in the pic. Before I added the plating it seemed more obvious.

...damn dirty cyborgs.

I'll try to indicate that more clearly with the inks. That's what I get for going with such a challenging pose, I guess!

Also: Did I make Molly too small compared to Phoenix? I should be able to grow her a bit if that's the case.