TerraDraconis

I'm still failing to see any sign that this isn't true.

You want access to Incarnates you pay the $15 per month access fee for it. If you don't want access to that feature then you don't have to pay for it. If you want access to inventions and don't have tier 5 unlocked you pay $2 per month to access it.

And as an added bonus any month you pay the $15 to unlock Incarnates you also get 1 signature story arc, 400 - 550 paragon points, A Paragon Reward Token, and other benefits.

At the end of the month you'll have your 400 points and can then use them over the next few months to unlock inventions again when you drop in.

Basically play the way you want buy paying to unlock the features you want. You just don't gain permenant access to all features. Some you have to pay a monthly fee for and that is smart. I fully believe that Turbine made a mistake by not holding back something to their subscribers.

I actually play over there some and I'm going to flat out state that Turbine made a mistake with DDO and possibly LOTRO in offering everything alacarte and not holding anything back as subscriber only. Basically since they went to that model I've played over there but never seen any reason to actually resubscribe. I check every so often but aside from some free points back there is no real incentive to subscribe. If there was only material you could access as subscriber only that would be an actual encouragement to subscribe.

I think that Paragon Studos looked at the lesson of these games and noted that they had low conversion back into subscribers and so have very smartly held back somethings as subscriber only. It is smart and clever. You can play most of the game without being a subscriber now but you can't access all of it's features. For that you must subscribe. That is just smart.

I actually don't feel that way. Really I don't.

When COH:Freedom goes live the old Vet system stops. The devs could have stated that for the record everyone got locked at that level and that was it. Then probably would have had to sell the vet rewards in the store for the people who would never be able unlock them in the new system.

Fortunately the devs didn't decide to do that. They rolled the vet system into the Paragon Rewards system and anyone who has earned rewards under the vet system keeps them and can even pick up interesting extras depending on the level of rewards. This is I think a good thing given how they could do it.

You under a misapprenhension about the new system. It is not actually directly equivalent to the old Veteren System even though the beneficieries of the old system have been rolled into it. The new system is specifically based on earning you 1 token for every $15.00 you spend.

A VIP even if they are getting a discount for multiple months is counting as $15 spent each month and thus earning a token. That is why they don't count the free 400 - 550 Paragon Points towards a free token because your month subscription which included 400 - 550 points gave you a token. If a VIP spends additional money to buy points that money counts towards additional tokens.

A free or premium player who spends $15 in the store earns a token.

Yes the new system allows a player to earn rewards faster than players earned them in the old Veteran Reward system. I'm not seeing this as a bad thing since I retain my level of rewards and move forward from here. Sure rich person over there can buy more tokens than I have instantly and upfront but so? Really I'm supposed to be jeleous that they spent more money upfront than I have spent?

You can buy access to incarnations. It just costs $15.00 a month to access it.

Except that the auction house has it's own entry on the chart that also says limited.

I think you are missing the entire point of Premium.

It exists so that if you don't pay a subscription fee you still have access to most of the game content. Note I said most not all. You gain more access the longer you have been subscribed in the past or the more you impulse spend for points.

The whole idea is that players who drop their subscriptions will still play and be lured back into resubscribing or into spending money to buy points.

Right now if I stop paying my monthly subscription I have no access to play the game. After Freedom goes live if I drop my subscription I retain a fair amount of access to the game and can still play it.

Your thinking of it as them trying to sell you the premium level. No that is just a stop gap to lure you into continuing to spend money with them. Post Freedom the only way to rage quit will be to delete all of your characters and the like otherwise your account just reverts to premium level.

::blink::

I'm sorry but that is just daft. You saw that it says limited. That means that there is some type of restriction on them. I can't imagine any universe where limited access to inventions means you get unlimited access to them.

::blink::

Yes you can buy interesting Store purchased versions of the uncommon invention sets that work just fine for any Premium player.

These SBE's autolevel with the character and are account locked so you can't pass them to other accounts. And yes the KB enhancement and it's set is one of the ones you can buy.

Don't forget to delete all of your characters bases and any other resource you have. Otherwise your rage quit really doesn't mean anything since you can quietly slink back later and just play. I mean quiting just means you go to premium level.

The moment they spend $15.00 and earn a token they unlock expanded chat.

No I look at them exactly as potential customers. You don't give potential customers the full experience. You give them part of the experience so that they want to spend money for more of it.

You are the one advocating for giving the free players more of the exprience for free. How does that make money for NCSoft?

You still clearly do not understand the meaning of bait and switch.

If I as a business advertise the amazing wonder gadget for $1.00 if you when come to my store you find that I only ever had 1 or 2 to sell and then try and sell the marvelous wonder gadget for $150.00 to you. That is bait and switch.

If I advertise that I'm selling the amazing wonder gadget for $1.00 and in the fine print it says only to VIP members of my store. And you get to the store and are not a VIP member and can only buy the amazing wonder gadget for $150.00. That is not bait and switch.

Bait and switch is where you never actually intended to sell the product advertised to get people to your store and offer a more expensive alternative.

Telling players that they can come back and play as a limited level Premium account and then not giving them access to all features of the game is not and has never been bait and switch.

Oh that is easy then. The monthly access fee for incarnate content is .... $15.00 a month. Well actually cheaper depending on how many months you pay in advance but you get the idea. You can pay to access the incarnate material.

I'm not seeing the problem here. You subscribe for a month get 400 points free unsubscribe and don't play for a month decide the month after that that you want to play so you spend 150 of your 400 points to unlock IO's for that month play then don't play then come back do the same thing and maybe the month after that you subscribe for a month and get another 400 points free and repeat.

I'm not seeing how your screwed here.

Every character over level 10 has 2 builds available. They can simply switch to build 2 and slot it with SO's and when/if they activate/unlock IO's they can flip back to build one. Why would they be forced to destroy IO's?

Still not seeing the bait and switch. If they are not paying any money and expect to get everything then they are just greedy. Thats it. Frankly bait and switch involves money up front. Not saying come and play for free and if you want the spiffy features you have to pay. That is not in any way shape or form bait and switch and anyone making that claim is just being ignorant or disngeneous.

No.

While interesting those are not the reasons for the change of model. The primary reason it to dangle a shiny lure out to get people to try the game. And if they don't subscribe then to lure them into buying things anyway from the Paragon Store. That is the primary reason for the change of model. It is all about adding new VIP accounts not about attracting and keeping Free or Premium accounts. And thinking that way will cause you to bounce when you try to figure out why they do things.

That by the way is a dev stated goal. They are not keeping it a secret. The change is being made to make money. This is why deluxe features are not free to Premium players. The whole point of deluxe features like IO's, the market and the like is to dangle them infront of Premium and Free players and lure them into spending money.

Yes Premium is designed to let you play without spending money but they would prefer it if you spent lots of money with them. Possibly more than you would if you subscribed. That is the key to why premium. It isn't to offer as many features for free as they can. But instead to offer just enough that you want to pay for the features they didn't give you.

Oh and regarding the rant. Given that I have friends on very fixed incomes who still seem to find money to subscribe to a couple of MMO's, Netflix and couple of other thing and they take a fair number of prescriptions between them. I'm just not buying your rant.

I am? I didn't notice that I had been shafted. I have been enjoying my celestial costume items that I started the Freedom beta with.

Oh really?

They don't have to pay anything to play and this is some how bait and switch?

That is some new definition of bait and switch then. And in what universe where they crazy enough to expect to pay NOTHING and have access to everything they did before?

If they are coming back it is incumbent on them to do do diligence research and if they assume how things work tough luck.

Actually you can buy KB Protection from the store for $1.00 that work for Premium players.

Well as I said in looking at the fine print I haven't been able to actually find it anywhere so I have no clue where I originally got the impression. And I see something sneaky. Spend $15 and get 1 token, subscribe 1 month and get 1 token. Since the monthly subscription is approximately $15.00 that makes sense.

So I think something in one of the various posts lent itself to that interpretation but it wasn't clearly never backed up by any further information to that effect. ::shrug::

colloquialisms they are always the tricky thing with languages. Complete misunderstanding is the formal proper phrase while gross misunderstanding is the regional/dialect phrase. I suspect it is used more commonly in US english but not so much in other english. Or at least it isn't used that way commonly.

And that is our diversion into language variations based on region.

That was my original understanding too. That both Premium and VIP got reward tokens but after being challenged on it and not being able to pin down the quote I got the impression of I've kept quiet on it.

Still that was the original impression I had of the reward system. ::Shrug:: I just can't prove that I'm right....

And your paying how much a month to get that squat?

Oh right you aren't paying anything and you want what? Hahahahhahahahahahahaha.

Use your second build to make a non IO based build. If your going to have 27 tokens then you don't have to worry as IO's will be unlocked.

Basically it's an shiny dangled out infront of you to keep you subscribed and if you don't want to subscribe then to buy points every so often for the 30 day unlock.

The evidence is that they had planned for a September 1st launch of Issue 21:Freedom. Which is why the boosters and the like stopped selling the day before August 30. But a couple of show stopping bugs cropped up in the beta and must be fixed before the issue can launch. I know that one possibly both of them involve the Mac client which means they have to work with a 3rd party to fix the problems. Hopefully they will resolve the problems this month and it will launch.

I really want it to launch. I had forgotten they were going to remove the packs myself and when I went to buy the beast pack for my second account I was to late.